Carnival Cruise Line Not Planning to Order Smaller Ships

[jimbo5544]

2 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

I don't see this ever. I can see perhaps a new Carnival benefit of a one time trial of other CCL cruise lines loyalty programs.

 

The sheer number of Carnival cruisers dwarfs the number of cruisers of the other lines and would result in their most loyal customers likely looking outside of the Carnival family. The other lines would quickly run out of resources and budget.

An interesting dilemma.  I would wager there is a LONG way between here and there.  I do think it is really complicated, and that to me is a large factor why we do not see anything like RCCL and Celebrity.  All that said, there is most certainly things they could do, without defiling the other lines loyalty.  Will they?  Well, they certainly will have an opportunity soon.

[jsglow]

19 hours ago, Hoosierpop said:

The biggest ships I’ve ever been on are Excel class. They don’t come close to feeling too big to me. And it’s hard to sail on a smaller ship now without the extras of the Excel. It’s subjective but I don’t see why anyone would prefer a smaller ship in Carnival’s line. Sailing on ships like Glory, Liberty, etc is just not as fun.

Because I mostly sail for the ports and the ocean itself. Pride was absolutely perfect for Europe.

[BlerkOne]

1 hour ago, jimbo5544 said:

An interesting dilemma.  I would wager there is a LONG way between here and there.  I do think it is really complicated, and that to me is a large factor why we do not see anything like RCCL and Celebrity.  All that said, there is most certainly things they could do, without defiling the other lines loyalty.  Will they?  Well, they certainly will have an opportunity soon.

The simple explanation is Royal likes to bribe repeat customers and Carnival prefers customers who prefer their brands. It really isn't hard to get to the highest loyalty level on Princess - in fact, it is easier that getting to Diamond on Carnival.

 

Why should Carnival try to retain those who need a bribe to stay? That just encourages more bad behavior.

 

 

[outdoors27]

On 7/26/2024 at 1:11 PM, BlerkOne said:

I can mostly agree with that. What new cruisers want is more bells and whistles and that takes larger ships. The new cruisers of today are apparently incapable of entertaining themselves and enjoying the peace and tranquility of the oceans,

That concept ended with smart phones, social media and the way the latest generation of younger cruises has been brought into the market. It's also all about profit at the end of the day. Unfortunately us older cruisers (sailing since early 80's) are expendable.  

[CruiseAdict218]

4 hours ago, tidecat said:

The Costa transfers happened because Costa had a very large surplus in capacity as China continued to remain closed, coupled with the rapid expansion of Costa's European fleet in the decade prior. Venezia and Firenze were intended to sail in China. Carnival was fortunate enough that North America was able to absorb that capacity. Costa Magica (Sunshine-class equivalent) wound up getting cut entirely. Costa Deliziosa is the only ship left in Costa's fleet capable of running a world cruise.

 

The Princess transfers to P&O Australia had always been planned, as P&O Australia never got new ships. Their transfer to Carnival is more about taking out the shoreside costs from maintaining two separate brands in the region. Australia was slow to reopen and New Zealand is making the cruise industry's life more difficult right now, so this is leading them to cut Pacific Explorer.

 

AIDA has announced it will be refurbishing their older ships.

 

I would not expect any more transfers in to Carnival's fleet beyond what has been scheduled.

I think any ship can do a world cruise run, Princess has Crown Princess running the Australian World Cruise for the first time so a similar sized ship in Costa like say Pacifica could as well. 

[outdoors27]

20 hours ago, Hoosierpop said:

Yeah, all the dining options, live singers, specialty bars….that junk just gets in the way 

 

Edited July 27 by outdoors27
Typo

[Hoosierpop]

1 hour ago, jsglow said:

Because I mostly sail for the ports and the ocean itself. Pride was absolutely perfect for Europe.

My point is, whatever I can do on say, the Glory, I can do on the Celebration. And I can do more on the Celebration. And it doesn’t feel as crowded as the Glory to me. 

[notscb]

11 hours ago, jimbo5544 said:

hey follow the money (like they all do).

Right, and following the money would make sense in what my interpretation was as well.

 

Why build another ship when you can get rid of your older smaller ships and integrate the vista-class vessels from your subsidiaries into your current fleet and call it something new, like they've done with Carnival "Italian style." Suddenly, these ships don't seem so old and offer a new product without Carnival having to build anything else. It costed Carnival a ton of money to do that branding work, I wouldn't be surprised if we didn't see another "Italian style" branded ship as the existing Carnival fleet grows older.

 

Just a different perspective. This thread had a ton of the same old, and I figured why not propose a different take.

Edited July 27 by notscb

[jsglow]

16 minutes ago, Hoosierpop said:

My point is, whatever I can do on say, the Glory, I can do on the Celebration. And I can do more on the Celebration. And it doesn’t feel as crowded as the Glory to me. 

On the ship specifically; absolutely. But I promise you Celebration isn't ever visiting Dun Laoghaire, Ireland. Heck, the 230k ton new builds won't be visiting practically anywhere. If that's someone's preference. Fantastic. That mission will be left to other lines.

[BlerkOne]

42 minutes ago, outdoors27 said:

That concept ended with smart phones, social media and the way the latest generation of younger cruises has been brought into the market. It's also all about profit at the end of the day. Unfortunately us older cruisers (sailing since early 80's) are expendable.  

Probably ended with the decrease in parenting skills and increase in anti-social behavior in general. Why talk to someone across the dinner table when you can text them. or call them on Whatsapp?

 

Hurry up and spend your kids inheritance.

 

 

[BlerkOne]

30 minutes ago, Hoosierpop said:

My point is, whatever I can do on say, the Glory, I can do on the Celebration. And I can do more on the Celebration. And it doesn’t feel as crowded as the Glory to me. 

You can't tender into Grand Cayman. and you wouldn't want to - it would take all day. Some people are happy with the ship being the destination. I'm sure the gamblers are happier with the larger casinos and perks, etc.

 

At the end of the day, Cheers is still limited to 15 drinks.

[tidecat]

1 hour ago, CruiseAdict218 said:

I think any ship can do a world cruise run, Princess has Crown Princess running the Australian World Cruise for the first time so a similar sized ship in Costa like say Pacifica could as well. 

The air draft would be an issue for newer ships on the Panama Canal, as ships making a full transit must go under the Bridge of the Americas.

 

It looks like though the Concordia class for Costa (and Splendor and Conquest classes for Carnival). They do nothing for Tampa, Baltimore, or Jacksonville, though.

 

The only meaningful play would be to send Deliziosa to Carnival and add a new build to Costa. One of the Concordia class would then take over for Deliziosa. If Costa is getting a new ship in the 2027-29 timeframe it probably needs to be announced soon.

 

Using the new locks would actually give Carnival more options for Alaska, as the Conquest class could work winters on the Gulf Coast or East Coast and serve Alaska during the summer. The Spirit class ships in Mobile and Galveston could then be deployed in Tampa and Jacksonville. In that case the transfer from Costa wouldn't be necessary.

[notscb]

11 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

I don't see this ever.

it’s simply logical especially with royal Caribbean group doing this already. It makes good corporate sense- keep customers within the CCL group and offer experiences that passengers want to try across the group to keep them within the group. I’d be shocked if carnival wasn’t already working on this. 
 

[BlerkOne]

6 minutes ago, notscb said:

it’s simply logical especially with royal Caribbean group doing this already. It makes good corporate sense- keep customers within the CCL group and offer experiences that passengers want to try across the group to keep them within the group. I’d be shocked if carnival wasn’t already working on this. 
 

We agree to disagree. Royal is irrelevant. The business models are different. If someone wants to try a different cruise line, they will.

[aborgman]

On 7/27/2024 at 12:42 AM, IntrepidFromDC said:

I don't understand that way of thinking.  What do you do instead of enjoy live entertainment and upgraded free food, with more variety, more shows, etc.  Play spades on Lido?

 

I'd say more food selection instead of upgraded food, but that is a positive.

 

More shows... But worse access/lines, and same quality.

 

Worse ports, and no tender port - limited due to size.

 

More detached from the ocean, no ability to walk around the ship on a single deck, etc. - more and more like being in a hotel than on a ship. Less ocean noise, less ship movement, etc.

 

 

 

[DanJ]

The only thing I can see Carnival Corp doing is offering some type of status match to only the top tier members across each line within the company. If you've put the time and money in on Carnival to get to Diamond, maybe that could earn you the use of platinum on Princess (maybe even as a one time thing to try that line, not an ongoing). I don't see the umbrella corp ever combining your points across all the lines to make status though, there is just too much variation in the value of each point across the brands.

 

What I could see them doing is coming up with some type of program where you get onboard discounts based on your total cruise points across the brands. A discount on wifi, or 15% off at the spa, that kind of stuff. Minor but shows appreciation. Get 100 points across all brands and get a "buy one get one 50% off dinner at the steakhouse". Something along that line.

 

One thing I found interesting when we went on our first cruise in Royal Caribbean, is all I had to do was register for their past guest program before the cruise and I was given all sorts of promo stuff on the ship. Internet discount, a coupon for a store on board, discount at Jonny Rockets, etc. Carnival was always cutting back on things for past guests and there was Royal giving me more with not having even been a guest before. 

[Theosprey247]

Can you imagine 8,000 people on HMC? Or 16,000 if two ships are docked? No thanks!

[dolphinsfan246]

29 minutes ago, Theosprey247 said:

Can you imagine 8,000 people on HMC? Or 16,000 if two ships are docked? No thanks!

I thought there was a plan to add a pier prior to the Covid shutdown. I’d assume the pier would accommodate 2 ships.

 

I haven’t heard anything about it in a long time though so I wonder if that plan was scrapped in favor of Celebration Key. I’d prefer Half Moon to stay the way it is, and I love that CCL will soon have 3 options for exclusive ports. 

[jimbo5544]

2 hours ago, DanJ said:

The only thing I can see Carnival Corp doing is offering some type of status match to only the top tier members across each line within the company. If you've put the time and money in on Carnival to get to Diamond, maybe that could earn you the use of platinum on Princess (maybe even as a one time thing to try that line, not an ongoing). I don't see the umbrella corp ever combining your points across all the lines to make status though, there is just too much variation in the value of each point across the brands.

 

What I could see them doing is coming up with some type of program where you get onboard discounts based on your total cruise points across the brands. A discount on wifi, or 15% off at the spa, that kind of stuff. Minor but shows appreciation. Get 100 points across all brands and get a "buy one get one 50% off dinner at the steakhouse". Something along that line.

 

One thing I found interesting when we went on our first cruise in Royal Caribbean, is all I had to do was register for their past guest program before the cruise and I was given all sorts of promo stuff on the ship. Internet discount, a coupon for a store on board, discount at Jonny Rockets, etc. Carnival was always cutting back on things for past guests and there was Royal giving me more with not having even been a guest before. 

Johnny Rockets….don’t get me going on that.  I was with you till that….

Edited July 28 by jimbo5544

[jimbo5544]

1 hour ago, Theosprey247 said:

Can you imagine 8,000 people on HMC? Or 16,000 if two ships are docked? No thanks!

Without the pier in is not possible.

[jimbo5544]

59 minutes ago, dolphinsfan246 said:

I thought there was a plan to add a pier prior to the Covid shutdown. I’d assume the pier would accommodate 2 ships.

 

I haven’t heard anything about it in a long time though so I wonder if that plan was scrapped in favor of Celebration Key. I’d prefer Half Moon to stay the way it is, and I love that CCL will soon have 3 options for exclusive ports. 

The pier building process has started, no idea when it will be finished.  In all the years we have gone there, I have NEVER seen two ships at the same time.  

[jimbo5544]

4 hours ago, aborgman said:

 

I'd say more food selection instead of upgraded food, but that is a positive.

 

More shows... But worse access/lines, and same quality.

 

Worse ports, and no tender port - limited due to size.

 

More detached from the ocean, no ability to walk around the ship on a single deck, etc. - more and more like being in a hotel than on a ship. Less ocean noise, less ship movement, etc.

 

 

 

Think I agree with most of what you said.  There is little doubt in my mind that the big new ships will do the owned ports and the ones that fit with those.  

[notscb]

13 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

Royal is irrelevant.

Just curious- How is Royal irrelevant when Carnival is following their lead in step and when Royal is Carnival's direct competitor in the U.S.?

[BlerkOne]

18 minutes ago, notscb said:

Just curious- How is Royal irrelevant when Carnival is following their lead in step

Thanks for the laugh!

[jimbo5544]

25 minutes ago, notscb said:

Just curious- How is Royal irrelevant when Carnival is following their lead in step and when Royal is Carnival's direct competitor in the U.S.?

I think the point is that they are different.  All cruise lines get bigger (ship wise).  Royal brags about the having the biggest and has consistently have made each ship (in class) bigger by 3 feet.  Childish when you think about it.  Nobody follows that logic.  WHAT has changed is that with the ship as the destination, and the advent of more and more private islands, and more, it makes sense to go big.  If Carnival was going to follow that lead, they would have done it 10 years ago (or more), but the other factors were not play then.