Really struggling with NCL ethics and whether I should switch cruise lines

[Two Wheels Only]

2 hours ago, DorothyB said:

Unfortunately, I figured out that MSC doesn't have anytime dining . . . Royal Caribbean and Carnival do . . . 

 

MSC has anytime dining for Aurea Experience and for Yacht Club Experience.

 

Bella Experience and Fantastica Experience have set dining times.

[cheersforbeers]

36 minutes ago, cruiseny4life said:

It sure does. I don't care about shore excursions. You don't care about the itinerary change. We're both responding to different parts of her post. Nowhere do the response rules (that don't exist) claim you have to respond to the entirety of the post.

 

There. You keep on the shore excursion side and I'll stick with the itinerary change. 🤝

If you would read closer I responded to both because I’m on that cruise she is specifically referring to, not one in 2025. 
Thanks, and have a great day

 

[shof515]

11 minutes ago, Two Wheels Only said:

 

MSC has anytime dining for Aurea Experience and for Yacht Club Experience.

 

Bella Experience and Fantastica Experience have set dining times.

 

it somewhat stinks to pay more money for anytime dinning

[drew69]

Honestly, it is not really a major deal either way.  If you don't like a store, you switch stores, don't like a restaurant, switch restaurants, don't like a cruise line.  

 

It is really your decision.  What bothers you more the itinerary changes and "ethics" or your discomfort with  changing lines and trying new things/ways.

[elcuchio24]

1 hour ago, DorothyB said:

Thanks for your response and thank you everyone else for your responses.

 

Loyalty - my first three Carnival cruises were before I cruised NCL - I loved the freestyle dining with NCL.  My fourth Carnival cruise was because friends were already booked on Carnival and I joined them.  

I really want a reason to NOT change cruise lines.  I'm not a fan of change at all.  Feeling overwhelmed with all to learn on a new cruise line - anytime dining? specialty dining? do they have Dr Pepper?  Internet options? etc, etc, etc

 

 You'll find that 90% is the same

[graphicguy]

I peruse a lot of threads at Cruise Critic.  I've been a member here for a while (well over a decade).  I'm very fortunate.  I have cruised a lot, on many different cruise lines.  So I get to have a "wide field of view" on a good number of cruise lines and ships.  

 

Regardless of the cruise line, as long as I've been here, there has been something "Janky" about one thing or another with all these brands, in all of these cruise line threads.

 

If you're unhappy with any cruise line, there are others...lots of others out there.  What one person loves about a cruise line, another person does not.

 

The constant with all these threads is you can find the FUD for every cruise line.

 

Not minimizing anyone's feelings, but if you have ethical issues with NCL, sail Carnival.  If you have ethical issues with Carnival, sail Royal.  If you have ethical issues with Royal........you get the drift.

 

OR, you can vacation another way....

 

 

[Two Wheels Only]

1 hour ago, shof515 said:

 

it somewhat stinks to pay more money for anytime dinning

 

Or you can think of it as having an option to pay less money but with fixed dining. 😉

[Crazy planning mom]

 Carnival is reducing the number of ports to save on fuel costs and be environmentally conscious.   https://cruise.blog/2024/04/surprising-reason-carnival-expects-your-cruise-ship-visit-less-ports

I think NCL making changes to current sailings after final payment is wrong but can't they change ports at any time pursuant to the t @c?

 

 

[luv2kroooz]

3 hours ago, graphicguy said:

Not quite following the "ethical" argument.

Ummm, if they are advertising an itinerary they have no intention of delivering and then waiting until penalty period to announce the change, that speaks to their ethics. What is there to follow?

Edited July 31 by luv2kroooz

[cruiseny4life]

6 minutes ago, Crazy planning mom said:

I think NCL making changes to current sailings after final payment is wrong but can't they change ports at any time pursuant to the t @c?

Legally, they sure can! 

[luv2kroooz]

There is no perfect cruise line. We left NCL in exchange for Carnival, Princess, and now an upcoming Holland cruise, due to what we also believed was unethical, deceptive business practices. We've obviously never looked back. We continue to post on this forum to provide information to future cruisers and receive information from current cruisers.😁😁

Edited July 31 by luv2kroooz

[luv2kroooz]

1 minute ago, cruiseny4life said:

Legally, they sure can! 

.....and they regularly do, despite their stated objective of maintaining published itineraries.

[drew69]

11 minutes ago, luv2kroooz said:

Ummm, if they are advertising an itinerary they have no intention of delivering and then waiting until penalty period to announce the change, that speaks to their ethics. What is there to follow?

The fact that there is no actual proof they had no intention of delivering the itinerary, therefore it being intentional or an ethical issue could be considered just speculation.

 

When it happens, it does suck and certainly not defending NCL but all cruise lines and pretty much all businesses have some questionable business practices.  It is up to the consumer to know as much as possible and make their  decision to do business with any particular business

 

As for "loyalty" questions - no corporation is loyal to any consumer and no consumer should worry about being "loyal" to any company - do what is best for you in any given circumstance when making purchase decisions.

[luv2kroooz]

5 minutes ago, drew69 said:

The fact that there is no actual proof they had no intention of delivering the itinerary, therefore it being intentional or an ethical issue could be considered just speculation.

 

When it happens, it does suck and certainly not defending NCL but all cruise lines and pretty much all businesses have some questionable business practices.  It is up to the consumer to know as much as possible and make their  decision to do business with any particular business

 

As for "loyalty" questions - no corporation is loyal to any consumer and no consumer should worry about being "loyal" to any company - do what is best for you in any given circumstance when making purchase decisions.

Yes rank speculation which is why the OP is wrestling with this issue.

[Hot Stop]

15 minutes ago, drew69 said:

The fact that there is no actual proof they had no intention of delivering the itinerary, therefore it being intentional or an ethical issue could be considered just speculation.

 

When it happens, it does suck and certainly not defending NCL but all cruise lines and pretty much all businesses have some questionable business practices.  It is up to the consumer to know as much as possible and make their  decision to do business with any particular business

 

As for "loyalty" questions - no corporation is loyal to any consumer and no consumer should worry about being "loyal" to any company - do what is best for you in any given circumstance when making purchase decisions.

Sorry but changing itineraries exactly 89 days out is extremely fishy. I’ve seen other threads here indicating this isn’t the first time NCL has done it. 

[DCGuy64]

4 hours ago, DorothyB said:

Absolutely - they waited until day 89 on purpose.  I'm ok with itinerary changes that are needed or even that they decide is "better" but to not tell us when they know - even if it is "we aren't sure yet whether the order of ports or exact ports will be changing" (obviously if due to weather there could be no warning)

With respect, you have no proof of this. You seem (if I am understanding you correctly) to be assuming that because they announced the itinerary changes concurrently with the penalty dates, they did it on purpose. Correlation is not causation, nor proof. Besides, I'm not sure you'd be happier if they announced the changes the day after you booked, the day you boarded, or any other date in between. I've had them happen while the cruise was underway. I don't see anything unethical about this.

[DCGuy64]

1 hour ago, graphicguy said:

Regardless of the cruise line, as long as I've been here, there has been something "Janky" about one thing or another with all these brands, in all of these cruise line threads.

 

If you're unhappy with any cruise line, there are others...lots of others out there.  What one person loves about a cruise line, another person does not.

Exactly what I was thinking. There is no one perfect line. Maybe NCL does make itinerary changes more than others (I don't know, and I don't want to waste the time crunching the numbers to see whether that's true in the first place). But Royal charges more for drinks, and I like NCL's specialty restaurants more than Carnival's or MSC's, Celebrity doesn't have refundable deposits (nor does Virgin), so every line has plusses and minuses.

[kitkat343]

I've sailed RC, Princess, HAL, NCL and Cunard and have generally found the mainstream cruise lines to be more alike than different.  What you might miss on NCL is the drink package, which I believe is more affordable than competing lines.  

 

It's a little harder for me to give up completely on NCL since I live near the NYC port and  have young kids who love waterslides and all the kid activities on NCL/RC, but our last cruise was on Cunard and our next one is on Princess.  The two cruises I considered over the past two years with NCL both had itinerary cancellations (the mess with the Prima not being able to reach Isafjorour last year and this year I was looking at a cruise to Norway and Iceland, and one of the stops in Norway that is a highlight - Alesund was replaced with a much less beloved port.).   NCL ships are mostly sailing full though so at least in the short term they aren't facing any consequences to their decisions.

 

If you aren't comfortable with any cruise line, I'd recommend considering others since they do tend to be more similar than different (except for Cunard.  They are very formal and are a bit challenging for families, but they did take us to all the ports on the itinerary and have really good food.  And my 13 year old son met a girl who took him to a ballroom dancing class, which was quite an unexpected experience for him).   

[julig22]

4 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

Exactly what I was thinking. There is no one perfect line. Maybe NCL does make itinerary changes more than others (I don't know, and I don't want to waste the time crunching the numbers to see whether that's true in the first place). But Royal charges more for drinks, and I like NCL's specialty restaurants more than Carnival's or MSC's, Celebrity doesn't have refundable deposits (nor does Virgin), so every line has plusses and minuses.

Since NCL has some unique itineraries, it stands to reason, IMHO anyway, that there would be a higher probability of "things happening" with respect to some of those ports that aren't as accustomed to cruise ships. Since it's not exactly easy to just find a parking space for a big ship if final negotiations aren't going as expected, I'd personally prefer that NCL - or any cruise line - basically cut their losses and make alternative arrangements, if there is any doubt about availability of services in places they are planning to dock. Same goes for a sketchy political environment or changes in environmental conditions.

[luv2kroooz]

19 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

Besides, I'm not sure you'd be happier if they announced the changes the day after you booked, the day you boarded, or any other date in between. I've had them happen while the cruise was underway. I don't see anything unethical about this.

Predictable response. I imagine it is always great, great coincidence in your world, nothing more nothing less. 

 

And wrong, I couldn't care less when they announce changes if it is outside penalty period. On our last voyage with the unethical NCL, they announced changes right after final payment....and to 4 ports. What a coincidence that those changes were all announced on the same day.

[luv2kroooz]

8 minutes ago, julig22 said:

Since it's not exactly easy to just find a parking space for a big ship if final negotiations aren't going as expected, I'd personally prefer that NCL - or any cruise line - basically cut their losses and make alternative arrangements, if there is any doubt about availability of services in places they are planning to dock. Same goes for a sketchy political environment or changes in environmental conditions.

Good points. I guess we've just been lucky to sail on other cruise lines that have better negotiation skills than NCL and research availability of port services prior to taking nonrefundable payments from their customers.

[julig22]

5 minutes ago, luv2kroooz said:

Good points. I guess we've just been lucky to sail on other cruise lines that have better negotiation skills than NCL and research availability of port services prior to taking nonrefundable payments from their customers.

Guess you missed the point about uncertainty of UNIQUE locations. And I guess I've been lucky that the majority of my NCL cruises, many being what they classify as "Extraordinary Journeys" haven't had major port changes after final payment. A lot can happen in 4 months.

Maybe when some of the other cruise lines start going to places like Antarctica or Africa, with comparable costs, I'll give them a try.

[graphicguy]

37 minutes ago, kitkat343 said:

I've sailed RC, Princess, HAL, NCL and Cunard and have generally found the mainstream cruise lines to be more alike than different.  What you might miss on NCL is the drink package, which I believe is more affordable than competing lines.  

 

It's a little harder for me to give up completely on NCL since I live near the NYC port and  have young kids who love waterslides and all the kid activities on NCL/RC, but our last cruise was on Cunard and our next one is on Princess.  The two cruises I considered over the past two years with NCL both had itinerary cancellations (the mess with the Prima not being able to reach Isafjorour last year and this year I was looking at a cruise to Norway and Iceland, and one of the stops in Norway that is a highlight - Alesund was replaced with a much less beloved port.).   NCL ships are mostly sailing full though so at least in the short term they aren't facing any consequences to their decisions.

 

If you aren't comfortable with any cruise line, I'd recommend considering others since they do tend to be more similar than different (except for Cunard.  They are very formal and are a bit challenging for families, but they did take us to all the ports on the itinerary and have really good food.  And my 13 year old son met a girl who took him to a ballroom dancing class, which was quite an unexpected experience for him).   

Agree with all of this!

 

Lots of hand wringing regarding policy.  

 

If you find one cruise line not to your liking, try another.  They all have their warts.  They all have their quirks.  They all have their specific advantages.

 

I’ve never found ethics on any of them to be even remotely an issue with them.

[luv2kroooz]

9 minutes ago, julig22 said:

Guess you missed the point about uncertainty of UNIQUE locations. And I guess I've been lucky that the majority of my NCL cruises, many being what they classify as "Extraordinary Journeys" haven't had major port changes after final payment. A lot can happen in 4 months.

Maybe when some of the other cruise lines start going to places like Antarctica or Africa, with comparable costs, I'll give them a try.

I didn't miss anything. I just don't understand your points. Are you saying NCL publishes itineraries and only then begins to negotiate port availability? Are you saying that it is harder or easier to negotiate port availability with a unique port that rarely gets a cruise ship port of call? Or are you randomly trying to justify reasons for NCLs regular itinerary changes which happen to routine itineraries and unique itineraries alike? Princess and Holland also offer unique itineraries.  What exactly are you trying to say?

[dbrown84]

back when the Taino Bay port was being repaired after the NCL accident, NCL kept advertising cruises with Puerto Plata on the itinerary, only to announce once onboard that it would be skipped.  There was a pretty lengthy thread on this back then. On my cruise, I actually found out by noticing there were Nassau excursion sheets at the excursion desk rather than Puerto Plata.  I was really disappointed because that was the port I was most looking forward to.  And there were a lot of people on board that were upset also.  That being said, with the changes going on at NCL (the icing being taking away the free drinks in the casino), I'm venturing out.  I had only ever sailed NCL, but did my first MSC last month, and I'm looking into scheduling a carnival cruise to check them out.  I do have another NCL cruise in January since it was already booked, but it's possible I'm now a cruise free agent