Is Holland America Line falling behind?

[SkyCaptain220]

On 9/2/2024 at 9:35 AM, Sdfgh said:

My wife and I are both 5 Star Mariners on HAL. We’ve been on all 11 ships currently in their fleet. We just booked several more cruise on HAL for this upcoming winter. Needless to say, we enjoy much of the overall experience that HAL offers. I just read an article listing all the new ships that are coming out shortly as well as the ships that are under contract to be built in the next decade. The only mass market cruise line with zero plans is HAL. Along with the major cruise lines, numerous smaller more boutique cruise lines have new ships planned. Everyone likes new, tattered furniture, stained carpeting, and boring decor does not attract new customers nor does it keep loyal past passengers. 
The staff on HAL are exceptional, even though some post pandemic newer staff are just learning the ropes. The food on HAL is the best,  IMO , of any mass market cruise line, and I’ve been on most. The entertainment is probably the worst, same shows over and over again in main stage venue, movies on some nights rather then live shows, or other excuses for what should be an hour or so of real entertainment. 
There are many loyal HAL customers who don’t want to hear anything negative about their home away from home. The fact is that HAL, like most cruise lines have been cutting back. The small things that sometimes set HAL apart from its competitors is gradually disappearing. 
If HAL has any hope of attracting a younger generation cruiser, which BTW I’ve read they are attempting to do, newer more modern ships would be a great start. More activities during the day and evening would also help. An expanded Club Hal, teenage activities, and eliminate the boring, repetitive shows that I avoid on a regular basis. Some nights on HAL we find almost nothing to do, it’s boring.
For those reading this that are fearful that HAL would lose its mojo, and no longer be the cruise line they feel comfortable with, that doesn’t have to be the case. It can become the cruise line that you now enjoy even more. 
Realistically, new ships take years to plan and build, however, other changes, upgrades, can be implemented in a much shorter time. I am concerned that as the HAL fleet gets older and less desirable, and absolutely no plans for new ships are projected, and their current ultra loyal devotees are no longer sailing, HAL too will fade away and unfortunately be soon forgotten. 

Strongly agree. My partner and I are around 30 years old, and recently returned from Alaska on HAL. While I continue to maintain HAL is the best for Alaska, and for some unique itineraries, we had a lot of feedback for our cruise surveys.
 

HAL continues to have the best MDR food of any mainstream cruise line, but the entertainment is insufficient. Compared to our recent experiences on Celebrity, it’s startling just how little there is to do. No live violinist or guitarist around, and the large music venues sit empty and silent until night time on HAL. In the evenings, the entertainment is so heavily focused on two small areas they become overcrowded. Coming off a recent sailing on Celebrity Reflection, it was striking just how cramped Koningsdam felt by comparison. 

Returning to music, BB Kings Blues club had the best music, but it was so extremely loud at times our family group couldn’t speak to each other. I asked the store staff above how they concentrate, and they commented about going to bed with ears ringing many nights (not good sign for their hearing…). 
 

As a random aside, I was frustrated one night working out when the lights in the gym were turned off on me and many others. We were all shocked the gym closed so early at 9pm when the other lines are 10pm, 11pm or even 24/7! (And don’t give me the excuse that it’s above the bridge and has to close - multiple other lines have their gyms above the bridge and do not have that problem). 
 

The staff cuts have also been evident. Dining room service some nights was irritatingly slow, and the servers don’t even try like celebrity to connect with you. Our names were never asked, no recommendations of the menu, not even an ounce of small talk. Rushed to take order every night. Meanwhile our cabin was dirty day one, and while the crew quickly fixed, we had half finished towel animals, missing chocolate, cleaning towels left behind in the bathroom - all signs the staff are overworked and rushing. 

Edited September 3 by SkyCaptain220

[ntdavis]

The new Lunch and Dinner menus in Pinnacle are very disappointing.  I’ll no longer be going for lunch and now only book ships that include Tamarind, Nami and Rudi’s (which probably won’t last much longer)

[Kay S]

46 minutes ago, ntdavis said:

The new Lunch and Dinner menus in Pinnacle are very disappointing.  I’ll no longer be going for lunch and now only book ships that include Tamarind, Nami and Rudi’s (which probably won’t last much longer)

 

I understand there is some disagreement about whether this is a fleet-wide change or not.  There is a thread here devoted to this topic.

[TRLD]

On 9/2/2024 at 7:37 AM, Sdfgh said:

The HAL ships are going out at full capacity, 100%,  or sometimes higher. What makes you feel that HAL is not as profitable as the many other cruise lines that fall under the Carnival Corporation umbrella? In general cruise lines are raking in the money, post pandemic numbers have now exceeded pre pandemic numbers. Perhaps Carnival Corp takes for granted the extreme loyalty HAL customers have, or perhaps C.C. is looking at HAL as a bygone era and will eventually sell off the fleet as their oldest ships can no longer be refurbished.

This is what the car manufacturers did with Oldsmobile, Plymouth, Mercury, Pontiac, etc. Sometimes you must first spend some money to make some money! 

As far as return on capital invested HAL, Princess, and Costa were all below the 12% CCL target as of the last filing.

 

So far the only CCL ship orders placed since covid have been for Carnival. All of the recent deliveries for Cunard, Princess, etc were all placed prior to Covid.

 

Would expect, based upon past order patterns, the next orders for HAL ships should be in 2026.

Edited September 3 by TRLD

[BermudaBound2014]

24 minutes ago, TRLD said:

Would expect, based upon past order patterns, the next orders for HAL ships should be in 2026.

Post covid I place very little value in relying on past behavior to predicting future behavior of any business, let alone the cruise industry. 
 

If HAL orders new ships in 2026 that will tell us a great deal about whether or not they have “fallen behind” as described by the OP. If not, that is equally telling.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 3 by BermudaBound2014

[3rdGenCunarder]

4 hours ago, richwmn said:

Add that Macy's (Federated) bought up both local favorites in Atlanta -- Davisons and Richs, closed a few locations and rebranded what was left to Macy's and lost a lot of good will.

 

 

I do not live in any of the cities where Federated rebranded iconic names, but I hated that move. They could have found a way to work in Macy's and still keep the original. "Macy's at Marshall Fields." Or "Wanamakers by Macy's."  Something to show respect the history.

 

On the subject of branding, I've always wondered why HAL thinks they need to piggy-back on another company's name. Don't they have confidence in their own name/identity? Did they really need links to America's Test Kitchen, Oprah, BB King, Rolling Stone (singular, like the magazine), Billboard, or Lincoln Center? The cooking demos were well attended before the ATK brand was brought in, and IMO they were better. IF they could just get good musicians, they wouldn't need to borrow (and probably pay for) names. Why not HAL Blues Club, for example? 

[Mary229]

7 minutes ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

Did they really need links to America's Test Kitchen, Oprah, BB King, Rolling Stone (singular, like the magazine), Billboard, or Lincoln Center?

The idea was to outsource the talent, entertainment and enrichment much as shore excursions are outsourced.  I think it was a terrible waste of money. 

[*Miss G*]

16 minutes ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

On the subject of branding, I've always wondered why HAL thinks they need to piggy-back on another company's name. Don't they have confidence in their own name/identity? Did they really need links to America's Test Kitchen, Oprah, BB King, Rolling Stone (singular, like the magazine), Billboard, or Lincoln Center? The cooking demos were well attended before the ATK brand was brought in, and IMO they were better. IF they could just get good musicians, they wouldn't need to borrow (and probably pay for) names. Why not HAL Blues Club, for example? 

Sometimes the view from the top is distorted. The above is a really good example. I think “they” have realized that and are now in the process of fixing it. My experience, and viewpoint, thus far, is that they are heading in the right direction. 

Edited September 3 by *Miss G*

[Texascruiser47]

We avoid other "premium" cruise lines because of all the kids and loud drunks. HAL is just fine the way it is and we will always sail with HAL whenever possible (4-Star Mariners), as long as they don't start building new ships with go-kart tracks and water slides. 

[FlaMariner]

40 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

The idea was to outsource the talent, entertainment and enrichment much as shore excursions are outsourced.  I think it was a terrible waste of money. 

 

Yes, and let's not forget the $$$ paid to Oprah during that time.  LOL.  What a waste of $$$. 

 

I think the new HAL management has realized that classical music does not require a tribute paid to Lincoln Center (great classical musicians are easily booked). 

 

A cooking demo does not require a tribute paid to America's Test Kitchen (HAL has the best chefs working onboard).

 

And on and on....The new management seems to understand this. 

[FlaMariner]

6 minutes ago, Texascruiser47 said:

as long as they don't start building new ships with go-kart tracks and water slides. 

 

perish the thought...LOL.

[SkyCaptain220]

57 minutes ago, Texascruiser47 said:

We avoid other "premium" cruise lines because of all the kids and loud drunks. HAL is just fine the way it is and we will always sail with HAL whenever possible (4-Star Mariners), as long as they don't start building new ships with go-kart tracks and water slides. 

None of the changes I mentioned nor anyone else here encourages more “drunks”. In fact I can’t even think of any drunks on my last several celebrity or princess cruises, so I’m frankly not sure what you’re referring to. What is wrong with undoing service cuts, improving entertainment, and expanding the gym closing by one or two hours?

 

As far as modernizing ships, no Celebrity ships have water slides or go cart tracks. And one new Princess ship has two small water slides, still no go carts!

Edited September 3 by SkyCaptain220

[Petronillus]

34 minutes ago, FlaMariner said:

I think the new HAL management has realized that classical music does not require a tribute paid to Lincoln Center (great classical musicians are easily booked). 

 

I agree with the over-arching point that drafting behind someone else's brand is oftentimes a waste of money. It was before my time, but others have expressed fond reminiscences of a jazz/pop combo called the HALCats. But, on the other hand, I think the musicians vetted for the Lincoln Center Stage ensembles were head and shoulders above the predecessor groups called the Adagio Strings. If Lincoln Center is cut out of the pattern, then somebody with talent and a deep appreciation and background in classical music has to be made responsible for vetting the musicians. (Incidentally, the very same point can be made w/r/t enrichment speakers.)

 

Playing for months on end on a cruise ship can be a dream job for a musician just starting his/her professional career. Highly talented up-and-comers should be easily discovered. I think part of the problem from HAL's standpoint was that the LCS musicians were coddled. Each one got her/his own cabin. They had regular days off, and only rarely (e.g., BBC Earth live soundtrack) had responsibilities beyond their regular recitals. I don't see why they couldn't be treated as part of the crew, live in crew quarters, and have other (suitable) assignments in addition to performing on stage (including of course the time necessary to practice and prepare their performances behind the scenes). Under the model I'm suggesting, they are neophytes lucky to get a paying job in their chosen field and build their resumes.

[FlaMariner]

Just now, Petronillus said:

But, on the other hand, I think the musicians vetted for the Lincoln Center Stage ensembles were head and shoulders above the predecessor groups called the Adagio Strings.

 

The classical group on our last two HAL sailings Oosterdam 2024 and Westerdam 2023 seemed to attract a crowd and they were not branded Adagio or Lincoln Center.  

 

Others will need to chime in regarding their experience.

 

There are lots of folks that play the cello well....or perhaps, well enough for me...and do not have the "Lincoln Center" brand attached.....The "Lincoln Center" brand was an excellent hype, IMO, at  a certain time but not necessary $$$$ today.....Again, IMO. 

 

Enjoy the music onboard....no matter "name branded" or not.....

 

[TRLD]

On 9/2/2024 at 9:17 AM, Sdfgh said:

This pie chart shows me how Carnival is their biggest growing brand, and except for Carnival everything has pretty much stayed the same. Costa, Princess, and Seabourn all have new ships in the works.

Costa has been having ships transferred to Carnival. Princess and Seabourn had ships ordered prior to covid, but no new orders since restart.

[TRLD]

On 9/2/2024 at 9:17 AM, Sdfgh said:

This pie chart shows me how Carnival is their biggest growing brand, and except for Carnival everything has pretty much stayed the same. Costa, Princess, and Seabourn all have new ships in the works.

Costa has been having ships transferred to Carnival as is P&O Australia. Princess and Seabourn had ships ordered prior to covid, but no new orders since restart.

[srsurman]

On 9/2/2024 at 12:10 PM, sunviking90 said:

One thing that has shocked us is the many heavily drinking to drunk guests. We don’t often do 7 day cruises anymore, so maybe that is the difference. HIA is a huge success here, but the drunk lady singing loudly on the back deck did mar the experience of College Fjord a bit. Definitely not the HAL crowd we usually see.

Perhaps the heavy drinking directly correlates with the lack of entertainment HAL provides...

[3rdGenCunarder]

1 hour ago, Petronillus said:

I agree with the over-arching point that drafting behind someone else's brand is oftentimes a waste of money. It was before my time, but others have expressed fond reminiscences of a jazz/pop combo called the HALCats. But, on the other hand, I think the musicians vetted for the Lincoln Center Stage ensembles were head and shoulders above the predecessor groups called the Adagio Strings. If Lincoln Center is cut out of the pattern, then somebody with talent and a deep appreciation and background in classical music has to be made responsible for vetting the musicians. (Incidentally, the very same point can be made w/r/t enrichment speakers.)

 

Playing for months on end on a cruise ship can be a dream job for a musician just starting his/her professional career. Highly talented up-and-comers should be easily discovered. I think part of the problem from HAL's standpoint was that the LCS musicians were coddled. Each one got her/his own cabin. They had regular days off, and only rarely (e.g., BBC Earth live soundtrack) had responsibilities beyond their regular recitals. I don't see why they couldn't be treated as part of the crew, live in crew quarters, and have other (suitable) assignments in addition to performing on stage (including of course the time necessary to practice and prepare their performances behind the scenes). Under the model I'm suggesting, they are neophytes lucky to get a paying job in their chosen field and build their resumes.

 

My memories of the HellCats are not fond. Screechy singers, reminiscent of cats fighting at midnight. OTOH, the Neptunes, who played in Ocean Bar, were great jazz musicians. I loved listening to them. Zaandam last winter had a band in Ocean Bar, and they were almost as good as the Neptunes. It was wonderful to have an option that was not deafening. Their singer was good, too--not a screecher. 

 

I agree that the LCS groups were excellent. I thought they were the best classical group I've heard on all my cruises. They weren't necessarily neophytes. I don't know that they were coddled any more than other musicians. They did play some daytime recitals in addition to evening performances. The Billboard duo got their own rooms, too, and I don't recall them playing any time other than the evening. I don't know that I've ever noticed a musician having a "day job" on a ship. 

[rj59]

On 9/2/2024 at 6:35 AM, Sdfgh said:

My wife and I are both 5 Star Mariners on HAL. We’ve been on all 11 ships currently in their fleet. We just booked several more cruise on HAL for this upcoming winter. Needless to say, we enjoy much of the overall experience that HAL offers. I just read an article listing all the new ships that are coming out shortly as well as the ships that are under contract to be built in the next decade. The only mass market cruise line with zero plans is HAL. Along with the major cruise lines, numerous smaller more boutique cruise lines have new ships planned. Everyone likes new, tattered furniture, stained carpeting, and boring decor does not attract new customers nor does it keep loyal past passengers. 
The staff on HAL are exceptional, even though some post pandemic newer staff are just learning the ropes. The food on HAL is the best,  IMO , of any mass market cruise line, and I’ve been on most. The entertainment is probably the worst, same shows over and over again in main stage venue, movies on some nights rather then live shows, or other excuses for what should be an hour or so of real entertainment. 
There are many loyal HAL customers who don’t want to hear anything negative about their home away from home. The fact is that HAL, like most cruise lines have been cutting back. The small things that sometimes set HAL apart from its competitors is gradually disappearing. 
If HAL has any hope of attracting a younger generation cruiser, which BTW I’ve read they are attempting to do, newer more modern ships would be a great start. More activities during the day and evening would also help. An expanded Club Hal, teenage activities, and eliminate the boring, repetitive shows that I avoid on a regular basis. Some nights on HAL we find almost nothing to do, it’s boring.
For those reading this that are fearful that HAL would lose its mojo, and no longer be the cruise line they feel comfortable with, that doesn’t have to be the case. It can become the cruise line that you now enjoy even more. 
Realistically, new ships take years to plan and build, however, other changes, upgrades, can be implemented in a much shorter time. I am concerned that as the HAL fleet gets older and less desirable, and absolutely no plans for new ships are projected, and their current ultra loyal devotees are no longer sailing, HAL too will fade away and unfortunately be soon forgotten. 

I think HAL is actually doing a decent job of preparing for future cruisers. They have some unique itineraries, for those who care about destinations over casinos or shows. They're implementing some new shows, and I was impressed by a new StepOne show I saw, with more energy than the incredibly dull Princess song and dance shows. There are a lot of foodies among my fellow boomers and younger, and they're really making a strong effort, with sustainable seafood, getting away from traditional cruise food like lobster and prime rib on veggies instead of with baked potato. I just got off Westerdam since it's last refit, and it looked quite nice, and I found Zaandam less dated than older Princess and Royal ships, which are just ugly. 'Dressy' night is also an attempt to move on, I would use the example of the numerous younger gay couples on HAL that it's doing well at appealing to younger cruisers who want an elevated food and destination experience, with smaller ships without ship-with-a-ship class systems or kids attractions, whereas Royal and NCL are going after families looking for whiz bang and who trade that off with megaships and megacrowds and megamediocre  and a lot of boring trips to Cozumel. While I find a lot to like in Pinnacle ships, the loss of a traditional promenade is a huge negative for me, as is the convoluted top deck blocked off by a huge, visible crew smoking area and with a sad, useless walking track. The same is true of Sun Princess--they tried to go for families with outdoor attractions, none of which have operated, so lots of wasted outdoor space, it turned into lots of privileged private spaces and sections of the ship, I don't think it has a promenade, like the Royal-Class ships I dislike, and it has over 4000 passengers trying to fit in a buffet in the middle of the ship. So the pattern for all the lines building new and larger seems to be removing public space, making more of it pay/class-based (I love Edge-class Celebrity ships, but they removed all front-space access, whereas they used to have a Crow's Nest kind of lounge/viewing area), adding more attractions/restaurants/shops/gimmicks to raise revenue, and making the entire experience more stressful and unpleasant for those who want privacy, quiet, a library, a variety of music, interesting art and antiques, an open, easy-to-navigate layout (and hallways without carts and not too far from an elevator), and ships that are actually beautiful inside and out. At the same time, I'm a solo cruiser on a limited income, so some high-end boutique/luxury line would be a waste of money to be stuck with a lot of ancient, boring wealthy people--even on Westerdam the past two days, which is staring a 54-day cruise, I got sick of angry, entitled old men demanding to speak to managers. I value HAL for offering those long, unique cruises, and I really wanted to do a cool cruise around Japan that stops at Iwo Jima and passes Midway Island, but no new ship would ever do that. At the same time, I went on Westerdam 3 weeks ago, full of yokel masses, and it was a really great Alaska cruise, with only 1900 passengers, few kids, open bow whale watching several days, and their unique Alaska menus. So I drifted away from HAL for several years when it felt too boring, the same experience and entertainment on every ship, every cruise, but now with every line at 100% or more occupancy, I value HAL's smaller size, simplicity, comforts, and reasonable innovations. They even brought back a classical trio on Westerdam, although I'm hoping for productions shows across the fleet. 

[sunviking90]

16 hours ago, srsurman said:

Perhaps the heavy drinking directly correlates with the lack of entertainment HAL provides...

There have been shows on the MainStage every evening except the first, and a pretty full schedule in Billboard and Rolling Stone. Another surprise to us. Although the comedian was NOT funny and sitting that through made me want a drink, lol. 

[Heartgrove]

Just some thoughts after reading through this rather lengthy thread. We are Four-Star HAL and Diamond MSC cruisers.  We have also sailed three times on Carnival, once on Viking Ocean, and next month will try Celebrity for the first time.

 

Alaska appears to be a HAL stronghold with six ships scheduled for the 2025 season. But now that Cunard has their fourth ship (Queen Anne), Cunard is keeping the Queen Elizabeth in North America year-round doing Alaska, Panama Canal, and Caribbean cruises. Granted only one ship but very competitive with HAL rates. For example: in 2025 Cunard has eleven-night cruises on the Queen Elizabeth with a longer itinerary than a comparable HAL Eurodam from Seattle 7-Day. Plus it is almost $1K cheaper!

 

We have sailed on HAL twice in a Neptune Suite, once in a Signature Suite, and three times in a Vista Suite (1 S-class and 2 Pinnacle-class). They were a combination of upsells and Mariner special rates to double Mariner credit. The way that HAL has increased their rates. I doubt that we will sail in a HAL Suite again. A verandah is sufficient. But the real mind changer was sailing on MSC in Yacht Club! We have sailed in Yacht Club both is Europe and from Florida. The comparison of the amenities between HAL Neptune and MSC YC is enormous! Too many to mention but a short list include: separate  dining rooms, personal butler, a mini-fridge fully stocked (and restocked), one bottle of spirits to consume or take home, escorted priority embarkation/disembarkation, priority elevator service, private pool area with lounge and grill, extensive snacks throughout the day in the Top Sail Lounge, and unlimited drinks. Granted itineraries are not as extensive in North America but growing each year.

[Sdfgh]

15 minutes ago, Heartgrove said:

Just some thoughts after reading through this rather lengthy thread. We are Four-Star HAL and Diamond MSC cruisers.  We have also sailed three times on Carnival, once on Viking Ocean, and next month will try Celebrity for the first time.

 

Alaska appears to be a HAL stronghold with six ships scheduled for the 2025 season. But now that Cunard has their fourth ship (Queen Anne), Cunard is keeping the Queen Elizabeth in North America year-round doing Alaska, Panama Canal, and Caribbean cruises. Granted only one ship but very competitive with HAL rates. For example: in 2025 Cunard has eleven-night cruises on the Queen Elizabeth with a longer itinerary than a comparable HAL Eurodam from Seattle 7-Day. Plus it is almost $1K cheaper!

 

We have sailed on HAL twice in a Neptune Suite, once in a Signature Suite, and three times in a Vista Suite (1 S-class and 2 Pinnacle-class). They were a combination of upsells and Mariner special rates to double Mariner credit. The way that HAL has increased their rates. I doubt that we will sail in a HAL Suite again. A verandah is sufficient. But the real mind changer was sailing on MSC in Yacht Club! We have sailed in Yacht Club both is Europe and from Florida. The comparison of the amenities between HAL Neptune and MSC YC is enormous! Too many to mention but a short list include: separate  dining rooms, personal butler, a mini-fridge fully stocked (and restocked), one bottle of spirits to consume or take home, escorted priority embarkation/disembarkation, priority elevator service, private pool area with lounge and grill, extensive snacks throughout the day in the Top Sail Lounge, and unlimited drinks. Granted itineraries are not as extensive in North America but growing each year.

As a 5 star Mariner, and having sailed many other cruise lines, it appears to me that the bottom cruise lines are coming up where the top ( mass market ) cruise lines are going down, especially with small cutbacks. I’ve never sailed MSC, although their ships look beautiful. I am trying Oceania for the first time this December. As for Celebrity, probably most on par with HAL. I have numerous sailings on Celebrity, however, it goes back quite a few years. We were on ships like the Millennium, Summit, etc. I hope HAL can truly find its way, and CCL does not write them off down the road. My children and I have very fond memories aboard the DAM ships.

[TRLD]

23 hours ago, SkyCaptain220 said:

Strongly agree. My partner and I are around 30 years old, and recently returned from Alaska on HAL. While I continue to maintain HAL is the best for Alaska, and for some unique itineraries, we had a lot of feedback for our cruise surveys.
 

HAL continues to have the best MDR food of any mainstream cruise line, but the entertainment is insufficient. Compared to our recent experiences on Celebrity, it’s startling just how little there is to do. No live violinist or guitarist around, and the large music venues sit empty and silent until night time on HAL. In the evenings, the entertainment is so heavily focused on two small areas they become overcrowded. Coming off a recent sailing on Celebrity Reflection, it was striking just how cramped Koningsdam felt by comparison. 

Returning to music, BB Kings Blues club had the best music, but it was so extremely loud at times our family group couldn’t speak to each other. I asked the store staff above how they concentrate, and they commented about going to bed with ears ringing many nights (not good sign for their hearing…). 
 

As a random aside, I was frustrated one night working out when the lights in the gym were turned off on me and many others. We were all shocked the gym closed so early at 9pm when the other lines are 10pm, 11pm or even 24/7! (And don’t give me the excuse that it’s above the bridge and has to close - multiple other lines have their gyms above the bridge and do not have that problem). 
 

The staff cuts have also been evident. Dining room service some nights was irritatingly slow, and the servers don’t even try like celebrity to connect with you. Our names were never asked, no recommendations of the menu, not even an ounce of small talk. Rushed to take order every night. Meanwhile our cabin was dirty day one, and while the crew quickly fixed, we had half finished towel animals, missing chocolate, cleaning towels left behind in the bathroom - all signs the staff are overworked and rushing. 

It apears that HAL is shifting some entertainment slots back to the main stage and improving some of their production show, but at the cost of Lincoln Center and potentially some other music walk slots.

[TRLD]

10 minutes ago, Sdfgh said:

As a 5 star Mariner, and having sailed many other cruise lines, it appears to me that the bottom cruise lines are coming up where the top ( mass market ) cruise lines are going down, especially with small cutbacks. I’ve never sailed MSC, although their ships look beautiful. I am trying Oceania for the first time this December. As for Celebrity, probably most on par with HAL. I have numerous sailings on Celebrity, however, it goes back quite a few years. We were on ships like the Millennium, Summit, etc. I hope HAL can truly find its way, and CCL does not write them off down the road. My children and I have very fond memories aboard the DAM ships.

We spent 22 days on Oceania in April. Would only do them in the future on a port intensive itinerary that was unique. The sea days were the ocean going version of ground hog day. Every day the same.

 

Oceania does many things well but the environment was extremely sedate. Kind of like the board meeting cocktail parties i used to attend. Very nice on the surface but quickly gets tedious.

 

Their production shows made HALs look good.

Edited September 4 by TRLD

[Sdfgh]

28 minutes ago, TRLD said:

We spent 22 days on Oceania in April. Would only do them in the future on a port intensive itinerary that was unique. The sea days were the ocean going version of ground hog day. Every day the same.

 

Oceania does many things well but the environment was extremely sedate. Kind of like the board meeting cocktail parties i used to attend. Very nice on the surface but quickly gets tedious.

 

Their production shows made HALs look good.

Thanks for the heads up. Just doing a Caribbean cruise with a good number of ports. The Caribbean ports offer us nothing since we’ve been to them dozens of times. It’s a good day in port if you don’t get pickpocketed. I heard some positive comments about the food and service. My wife and I are easy to please, we don’t look for negatives, just to get away from the cold winters up north.