Dog in Royal Court Theatre on QM2

[RK-NC]

We left the theatre show tonight because someone came in mid-show carrying a small dog wearing jingling bells/tags. Has anyone experienced this? We went to the purser's office and received no explanation other than that service animals are allowed onboard and that we should just avoid sitting near it if bothered.

[exlondoner]

6 minutes ago, RK-NC said:

We left the theatre show tonight because someone came in mid-show carrying a small dog wearing jingling bells/tags. Has anyone experienced this? We went to the purser's office and received no explanation other than that service animals are allowed onboard and that we should just avoid sitting near it if bothered.

Eeeek. Horrible. Worse still the way it was handled. And jingling in a theatre show. Much worse than people wearing the wrong clothes, I think.

[3rdGenCunarder]

Sounds like a fake service dog. Jingly bells? I just don't see that being a real service dog. I hate that people lie to be able to take their dogs, but they do. Just go on ebay and buy a vest.  Fake service dogs demean the value of real service dogs.

 

As for how it was handled, the staff can't do anything. If the person says it's a service animal, the ship has to accept that, which means the dog can go anywhere. Unless there are numerous complaints about the dog's behavior--jumping on people, barking, etc--the ship can't do anything. 

[RK-NC]

There was no concern from the purser that this dog was a legitimate service dog. It seems like they would want to investigate and be sure someone hasn't sneaked on a pet. The purser was very dismissive of our concern. 

[3rdGenCunarder]

2 hours ago, RK-NC said:

There was no concern from the purser that this dog was a legitimate service dog. It seems like they would want to investigate and be sure someone hasn't sneaked on a pet. The purser was very dismissive of our concern. 

 

There is very little they can do. If the company accepted the reservation, the pursers can't change that. The only questions that can be asked are: Is the dog trained for a specific assistance? and What is that assistance? They can't ask Why do you need the dog, as that would be a question about the person's medical history and privacy laws forbid that. 

 

The purser may have been more cautious than dismissive because they weren't in a position to tell you anything. 

[exlondoner]

9 hours ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

Sounds like a fake service dog. Jingly bells? I just don't see that being a real service dog. I hate that people lie to be able to take their dogs, but they do. Just go on ebay and buy a vest.  Fake service dogs demean the value of real service dogs.

 

As for how it was handled, the staff can't do anything. If the person says it's a service animal, the ship has to accept that, which means the dog can go anywhere. Unless there are numerous complaints about the dog's behavior--jumping on people, barking, etc--the ship can't do anything. 

Surely they could ask its owner to ensure it doesn’t jingle.

[tv24]

Dogs and jingle bells?  Not White Star Service!

[Germancruiser]

White Star Service is a nice and well sounding marketing strategam- however the Service during the last two voyages 2023 and 2024,  needs a little polish- I agree. The only Problem with the dog in the theater may be in the jingel thingy. I hope the OP never comes into the need of a Service dog of any kind. Kindness is still " en vouge"- for some!

[exlondoner]

34 minutes ago, Germancruiser said:

White Star Service is a nice and well sounding marketing strategam- however the Service during the last two voyages 2023 and 2024,  needs a little polish- I agree. The only Problem with the dog in the theater may be in the jingel thingy. I hope the OP never comes into the need of a Service dog of any kind. Kindness is still " en vouge"- for some!

I have a problem with dogs: they smell, they bark, they have teeth, they are frightening, and that is before worrying about badly trained owners. I too hope I never need a service dog of any kind because my fear and dislike of them is such that I would not be able to cope. But I agree here, except for those sitting next to it, the problem is the jingles, which should have been easy to circumvent.

[majortom10]

White Star Service is a laughable publicity comment that does not really happen.

[exlondoner]

1 minute ago, majortom10 said:

White Star Service is a laughable publicity comment that does not really happen.

It always seems a slightly strange marketing idea anyway, as the one thing people associate with White Star is the Titanic, which failed first time in the basic requirement of a ship, ie reaching its destination. I can forgive the absence of white gloves, but not reaching land is a major failure.

[chengkp75]

12 hours ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

Unless there are numerous complaints about the dog's behavior--jumping on people, barking, etc--the ship can't do anything. 

This is not quite correct.  In SCOTUS' decision in Spector v NCL, a couple of decades ago, they stated that the "internal policies and procedures" of a foreign flag cruise ship are not subject to the ADA.  That means that while the company has to accept an animal that is claimed to be a service animal, how they accept it is up to the company.  As long as the policies don't interfere with the performance of the claimed service, or restrict the owner from certain activities, they can limit where the service animal can go (say limited seating in the theater, limited access to various restaurants, or seating within the restaurants, etc).  The company is also free to establish a "service animal code of conduct" to cover things like dogs sitting on chairs, being fed from the table, etc.

[exlondoner]

4 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

This is not quite correct.  In SCOTUS' decision in Spector v NCL, a couple of decades ago, they stated that the "internal policies and procedures" of a foreign flag cruise ship are not subject to the ADA.  That means that while the company has to accept an animal that is claimed to be a service animal, how they accept it is up to the company.  As long as the policies don't interfere with the performance of the claimed service, or restrict the owner from certain activities, they can limit where the service animal can go (say limited seating in the theater, limited access to various restaurants, or seating within the restaurants, etc).  The company is also free to establish a "service animal code of conduct" to cover things like dogs sitting on chairs, being fed from the table, etc.

Thank you. That is quite a relief.

[chengkp75]

24 minutes ago, exlondoner said:

Thank you. That is quite a relief.

Now, having said all that, just like virtually every major cruise line, Cunard is likely not willing to make up policy decisions like this, nor enforce them, it is much easier to just ignore the problem.  CLIA could very easily come up with a code of conduct, but they don't.

[3rdGenCunarder]

4 hours ago, exlondoner said:

It always seems a slightly strange marketing idea anyway, as the one thing people associate with White Star is the Titanic, which failed first time in the basic requirement of a ship, ie reaching its destination. I can forgive the absence of white gloves, but not reaching land is a major failure.

 

I agree that touting anything "White Star" seems odd. Before the Titanic movie came out, Cunard made no mention of the White Star connection. The movie was popular, so they started referencing White Star. 

[3rdGenCunarder]

4 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

This is not quite correct.  In SCOTUS' decision in Spector v NCL, a couple of decades ago, they stated that the "internal policies and procedures" of a foreign flag cruise ship are not subject to the ADA.  That means that while the company has to accept an animal that is claimed to be a service animal, how they accept it is up to the company.  As long as the policies don't interfere with the performance of the claimed service, or restrict the owner from certain activities, they can limit where the service animal can go (say limited seating in the theater, limited access to various restaurants, or seating within the restaurants, etc).  The company is also free to establish a "service animal code of conduct" to cover things like dogs sitting on chairs, being fed from the table, etc.

 

This reminds me of a thread on the HAL board a while back (6 months, a year?) about a very badly trained fake service dog. It took numerous complaints, including your two examples of sitting on chairs and being fed from the table, plus barking and other annoying behaviors before HAL did anything. At this point, I don't remember what was done. They SHOULD have been put off the ship, but I don't remember if they were. I think cruise lines are afraid of the trouble the owners of fake service dogs will make. They will loudly threaten to sue, go on social media and make a stink. It's easier not to rock the boat, as the saying goes. 

 

I have met people with real service dogs. You can tell the real from the fakes. Real service dogs are quiet and well behaved. They do not beg at mealtimes--they know they will get their own dinner elsewhere. They are not on a long extender leash. They do not jump up on people. They rarely bark, unless it's part of their "alert" training.

 

Service dogs are not easily distracted--and others should help with this by not going up to the nice doggie and petting it. When the owner says "it's okay, you can pet him," I get suspicious. Yes, service dogs get some time off. But that usually involves removing the vest or some other signal to the dog that it's down time.  I love dogs and want to say hello and put out my hand for it to sniff. When I see a service dog, I put my hands behind my back to remind myself I shouldn't do that because the dog is working and I mustn't interfere with that. 

[ExArkie]

18 minutes ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

I agree that touting anything "White Star" seems odd. Before the Titanic movie came out, Cunard made no mention of the White Star connection. The movie was popular, so they started referencing White Star. 

Cunard introduced the “White Star Service” on QE2 in 1995. James Cameron’s movie was 1997. 
 

Quite possible they knew the movie would be coming out and tried to get in front of the publicity, but sounds more like they capitalized on timing. 
 

By the way, White Star Line was renown for their level of service and attention to detail. It wasn’t really until after the popularity of the movie that the foremost connection was to the one liner lost in an accident. 

[exlondoner]

44 minutes ago, ExArkie said:

Cunard introduced the “White Star Service” on QE2 in 1995. James Cameron’s movie was 1997. 
 

Quite possible they knew the movie would be coming out and tried to get in front of the publicity, but sounds more like they capitalized on timing. 
 

By the way, White Star Line was renown for their level of service and attention to detail. It wasn’t really until after the popularity of the movie that the foremost connection was to the one liner lost in an accident. 

White Star had an appalling accident rate, certainly compared to Cunard. Not only did they have the worst non-war passenger loss of the 20th Century, but also of the 19th, as well as others. Attention to the detail of arriving safely does not seem to have been that high on their list of priorities.

[3rdGenCunarder]

1 minute ago, exlondoner said:

White Star had an appalling accident rate, certainly compared to Cunard. Not only did they have the worst non-war passenger loss of the 20th Century, but also of the 19th, as well as others. Attention to the detail of arriving safely does not seem to have been that high on their list of priorities.

 

Wasn't the difference between White Star and Cunard considered to be luxury vs speed and engineering?

[exlondoner]

2 minutes ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

Wasn't the difference between White Star and Cunard considered to be luxury vs speed and engineering?

Or to put it more bluntly, safety. Cunard claimed never to have lost a passenger through their fault on the North Atlantic. I don’t know whether this is true or verifiable.

[RJChatsworth]

When a dog stays in a cabin, who pays for fumigation, not the owners, but they should?

 

There was a long thread on here a year or two ago which I started about a large husky ‘comfort’ dog in the QG cabin on QM-2 next to our QG cabin on a transatlantic crossing.  The owners only once eat in the QG.  All their food was delivered, even the dog’s as it was partial to salmon.  The dog had to be restrained in the corridor as it was too large to pass comfily when it was on its daily walk.

 

When the youngish couple and dog disembarked it took two hours to clean the cabin properly.  I felt sorry for the new occupants.

 

This dog business is getting out of hand, in my opinion. This was not the first case we had come across.  Previously the small dog had been taken into the QG restaurant at meal times.

[3rdGenCunarder]

1 hour ago, RJChatsworth said:

This dog business is getting out of hand, in my opinion. This was not the first case we had come across.  Previously the small dog had been taken into the QG restaurant at meal times.

 

If it's a service dog, it is allowed into the restaurant. If it is a REAL service dog, it will be properly trained and will sit or lie under the table, bothering nobody. 

[RJChatsworth]

All my encounters have been with ‘comfort’ dogs and not ‘service’ dogs, which I class as being for the blind. Have not seen the latter on board and that is a different matter and acceptable.  The QG dog was held in the arm all the time.

[3rdGenCunarder]

5 minutes ago, RJChatsworth said:

All my encounters have been with ‘comfort’ dogs and not ‘service’ dogs, which I class as being for the blind. Have not seen the latter on board and that is a different matter and acceptable.  The QG dog was held in the arm all the time.

 

Service dogs do more than work for people who are blind, although those are the most well-known. 

 

I didn't think ships took comfort dogs, only service dogs. The definition being what the owner says it does. 

[Victoria2]

I think 'you' have to have had experience of service dogs to k now how utterly wonderful they are. They are totally different from 'comfort' dogs.

 

I'm not a canine fan at all after being bitten by a dog when a youngster but a friend of mine is seriously disabled and has an assistance dog. Her dog can even open doors for her and put clothes in the washing machine. It can fetch the phone, pick up dropped items and is generally a canine 'butler'.

Without Daisy, my friend would be in a nursing home and it's a village delight to see her being walked by my friend who trundles along in her specially built power chair.