Still trying to understand why power strips would be banned...

[BlerkOne]

Where do pennies in a fuse box fall?

[ProgRockCruiser]

On 9/27/2024 at 10:41 AM, lostsoulcruiser said:

This is an example Amazon says is okay.  As you can see, it has outlets, USB ports but no surge protector.

 

 

Absence of the text describing it having a surge protector does not guarantee it has no surge protector.  It isn't likely, I suppose, but I sure wouldn't want to bet on it.

 

Unless you tear it apart and examine the guts, you have no idea what going on in there.

[Charles4515]

8 minutes ago, ProgRockCruiser said:

Absence of the text describing it having a surge protector does not guarantee it has no surge protector.  It isn't likely, I suppose, but I sure wouldn't want to bet on it.

 

Unless you tear it apart and examine the guts, you have no idea what going on in there.

Not likely they would spend to include a surge protector and not advertise it unless they are marketing to cruise passengers….like if it says cruise approved which is a marketing scam. 

A 3 pronged plug like in the is a necessity for effective surge protection but does not necessarily indicate surge protection. 

[aborgman]

2 hours ago, Charles4515 said:

Not likely they would spend to include a surge protector and not advertise it unless they are marketing to cruise passengers….like if it says cruise approved which is a marketing scam. 

A 3 pronged plug like in the is a necessity for effective surge protection but does not necessarily indicate surge protection.

 

1) Surge protection does not require a ground. It can be done hot-neutral, even in a split phase system.

 

2) Total cost for surge suppression components in normal surge suppressor: approximately 5 cents.

[RoperDK]

10 hours ago, shof515 said:

electric toothbrush, electric shaver all need to be charged. it would nice if they replace that strange layout in the bathroom with a standard AC plug so you can plug in these devices

Hopefully, this will change with newer build ships.  Royal's new ship does have a regular plug in the bathroom.     

[Charles4515]

1 hour ago, aborgman said:

 

1) Surge protection does not require a ground. It can be done hot-neutral, even in a split phase system.

 

2) Total cost for surge suppression components in normal surge suppressor: approximately 5 cents.

 

5 cents adds up to bean counters. 

[BlerkOne]

Normal surge suppressors of any cost are still banned on cruise ships.

[jimbo5544]

All these posts and have not seen one good reason for Royal crappy ban.

[aborgman]

1 hour ago, BlerkOne said:

Normal surge suppressors of any cost are still banned on cruise ships.

 

Not true.

 

Fused plugs are totally allowed.

 

 

[BlerkOne]

Surge protectors are not allowed on cruise ships because they increase fire risk. 

https://support.anker.com/s/article/Can-my-Anker-power-strip-be-taken-on-a-cruise-ship#:~:text=Surge protectors are not allowed,current on a cruise ship.

 

 

 

[BlerkOne]

15 minutes ago, aborgman said:

 

Not true.

 

Fused plugs are totally allowed.

 

 

The keyword is NORMAL

[chengkp75]

9 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

The keyword is NORMAL

No, he's making the semantic point that fuses and circuit breakers are current "surge protectors", while voltage "surge suppressors are not allowed.

[DeniseTr]

On 9/30/2024 at 4:04 AM, cynt said:

I'm just curious, what devices besides your phones are you bringing on vacation that you need so many additional outlets? I know some people need a CPAP but what else are you bringing aboard the ship?

2 tablets, phone, cpap, watch, fan, air purifier, electric razor.

[DeniseTr]

23 minutes ago, DeniseTr said:

2 tablets, phone, cpap, watch, fan, air purifier, electric razor.

And that's just one person. 

Imagine a family of 4...

[jimbo5544]

2 hours ago, DeniseTr said:

And that's just one person. 

Imagine a family of 4...

Hope everyone votes with their wallets and choose a different line.  Possibly one of the worst moves made by a cruise line in a good while.  

[BlerkOne]

7 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

No, he's making the semantic point that fuses and circuit breakers are current "surge protectors", while voltage "surge suppressors are not allowed.

I once had a power strip with a simple on-off switch confiscated. Even if something is allowed doesn't mean it will make it on the ship.

[jimbo5544]

57 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

I once had a power strip with a simple on-off switch confiscated. Even if something is allowed doesn't mean it will make it on the ship.

Even things like going thru TSA security when flying has issues, while the rules are the same, the application by various airport TSA is remarkably different.

[aborgman]

18 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

The keyword is NORMAL

 

Fused plugs are the MOST common surge suppressor in use.

 

 

[aborgman]

2 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

I once had a power strip with a simple on-off switch confiscated. Even if something is allowed doesn't mean it will make it on the ship.

 

Power switches generally have similar same issues in a split phase supply as "surge suppressors" - the switch generally only turns off one phase (hot), leaving the neutral with 60VAC relative to "ground".

It can also back feed from power strip neutral at 60VAC through a plugged in device to the power strip hot - causing partial voltages on anything else plugged into the power strip, which is a fire hazard.

A switch that only breaks one leg in a split phase system should not be allowed - and they aren't going to check and see if it's a switch/breaker that breaks both legs or only one.

Edited 9 hours ago by aborgman

[aborgman]

1 hour ago, jimbo5544 said:

Even things like going thru TSA security when flying has issues, while the rules are the same, the application by various airport TSA is remarkably different.

 

The big problem with TSA is that the rules are:

 

1) What the rule book says

2) Or anything any individual TSA agent says, even if it contradicts the rule book

 

They specifically have a cut out that basically says "The TSA agent is right, even if they're wrong".

 

Whether to let anything on, no matter what the rules say, is at each TSA agents discretion.

[chengkp75]

28 minutes ago, aborgman said:

 

Power switches generally have similar same issues in a split phase supply as "surge suppressors" - the switch generally only turns off one phase (hot), leaving the neutral with 60VAC relative to "ground".

It can also back feed from power strip neutral at 60VAC through a plugged in device to the power strip hot - causing partial voltages on anything else plugged into the power strip, which is a fire hazard.

A switch that only breaks one leg in a split phase system should not be allowed - and they aren't going to check and see if it's a switch/breaker that breaks both legs or only one.

This was one of the major points in the USCG Safety Notice about using surge protectors on ships, where they sort of conflated the problems of surge protectors with the problem of a US consumer power strip only breaking one leg of the circuit.  This is why you will find the ships only use European 220v power strips, where the switch (circuit breaker) breaks both legs of the circuit.

[aborgman]

1 minute ago, chengkp75 said:

This was one of the major points in the USCG Safety Notice about using surge protectors on ships, where they sort of conflated the problems of surge protectors with the problem of a US consumer power strip only breaking one leg of the circuit.  This is why you will find the ships only use European 220v power strips, where the switch (circuit breaker) breaks both legs of the circuit.

 

 

Yeah... there are a lot of related issues there.

1) If it's a switch - does it break both legs, or only one?
2) If it's a circuit breaker - does it break both legs, or only one?

3) If it has voltage surge suppression - does it do phase-phase suppression, or only hot-ground?

4) If it has a fuse - are both legs fused or only one?

5) Can the Class X/Y capacitors in the input filter handle split phase supplies?

 

...and this ignores that almost any corded appliance with a fused plug - presents the exact same issues, and aren't necessarily banned.

 

[BlerkOne]

3 hours ago, aborgman said:

 

Power switches generally have similar same issues in a split phase supply as "surge suppressors" - the switch generally only turns off one phase (hot), leaving the neutral with 60VAC relative to "ground".

It can also back feed from power strip neutral at 60VAC through a plugged in device to the power strip hot - causing partial voltages on anything else plugged into the power strip, which is a fire hazard.

A switch that only breaks one leg in a split phase system should not be allowed - and they aren't going to check and see if it's a switch/breaker that breaks both legs or only one.

unless it is a 220 volt power strip. In any event, shore side staff aren't qualified to know all the various possibilities.

 

[aborgman]

43 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

unless it is a 220 volt power strip. In any event, shore side staff aren't qualified to know all the various possibilities.

 

 

Even those you can't necessarily trust - dual pole breakers and switches generally fail on a single pole first, so you could potentially still have the situation.

 

There are good arguments for just not allowing any switches/breakers on many split phase supply.

[BlerkOne]

1 hour ago, aborgman said:

 

Even those you can't necessarily trust - dual pole breakers and switches generally fail on a single pole first, so you could potentially still have the situation.

 

There are good arguments for just not allowing any switches/breakers on many split phase supply.

My point is you can't tell