Princess Cruise Exercise Classes Can Be Dangerous

[memoak]

2 minutes ago, paddingtonbear said:

I wasn’t suggesting using a chair. 

What are suggesting they use ?  Hold onto a barre bar lose your grip and fall and sue ?  Frankly I think they should get waivers for all the classes Like gym class in high school. If you cannot do the exercises you sit it out. At least when I was in school during the dark ages

[Scirocco Breeze]

12 minutes ago, memoak said:

What are suggesting they use ?  Hold onto a barre bar lose your grip and fall and sue ?  Frankly I think they should get waivers for all the classes Like gym class in high school. If you cannot do the exercises you sit it out. At least when I was in school during the dark ages

Im just blown away by the true awfulness of your attitude to be honest. It's a stretch class on a cruise ship, not the bloody Olympics. And if it was the Olympics, they'd be more inclusive than you! 

[PrincessLuver]

17 hours ago, dbradp said:

 

 

The fitness instructor teams are contracted by the spa. Princess, HAL, and Carnival contract with One World Spa, if memory serves. The instructors are trained, certified and generally well educated in their field just as the salon staff and massage therapists are.

The first thing to understand about cruise fitness classes is the gym is always at the tippy top of a fifteen plus floor moving vessel. The studio where these classes take place are often not very large and frequently well attended, especially free morning stretch. 

Stretch classes comprise both standing and floor based exercises. The demographic and size of the group and the conditions of the sea dictates the instruction provided.
Can you stand and put your right foot on the far side of your left foot, bend over and see how close to your toes you can reach while the horizon bobs up and down outside the window? (I’m 62 and proud to say I can, depending on the previous night’s festivities). Can you get to the floor and return to standing without aid in perfectly calm weather? If not maybe you should not be there. 

But bringing a chair into this environment as OP heard requested would be dangerously negligent for all involved. 

You are correct.  I usually pay for PT sessions when we cruise and every instructor I have had has had a background in some kind of physiology education, athletic training or was certified. I have yet to have a dancer as an instructor for PT.  I have usually seen the dancer assisting in the computer or medallion centers only.

[memoak]

31 minutes ago, Scirocco Breeze said:

Im just blown away by the true awfulness of your attitude to be honest. It's a stretch class on a cruise ship, not the bloody Olympics. And if it was the Olympics, they'd be more inclusive than you! 

For those of us who sail several months per year and use the gym to stay in shape it gets very old to see people come into the gym and treat it like Disneyland. Never seen a treadmill don’t ask how to use power it up and fall off and scream that Princess injured them

[startedwithamouse]

17 hours ago, Dutchman48 said:

Maybe missed something in OP, but thought the discussion was the basic stretching class offered on most cruises.

There is a big difference in showing up for morning stretches than signing up for a paid class like a paid spin class you mentioned. 

Only been on 20 cruises with various lines but always saw the morning walk or stretches as motivational and not designed to be a stressful workout. Agree with OP that the instructors for these classes should be more accommodating. 

This isn't the basic free stretching class that you see around the ship with the morning walk. It is in the gym offered by the fitness instructors. 

[rheathslc]

17 hours ago, memoak said:

Having having been a gym member at home for over 20 years I can attest that classes are just that classes like in school. If I have a class of 40 people there is no way to have 40 lesson plans. A person who is not ready for classes can hire a trainer to work with them individually like a tutor in school   That is how it works in every gym I have every belonged to

I have also been a member of various gyms and studios most of my life as well as having three sisters and a mother who are all fitness and yoga instructors. They all know how to and do provide modifications for people who need them in any group class they lead.

 

I recognize that the instructors on the ship might not be the best trained. I would probably have lower expectations of their ability and qualifications than most instructors at my local gyms and studios. But to claim that a typical trainer cannot or should not provide modifications is misguided imo. A good instructor should be able to give basic modifications for anyone who needs them. In fact the instructors at my current studio demonstrate every exercise and either also demonstrate a modification or say that if you need a modification to let them know. I have a knee that gets angry sometimes and I ask them when I need a modification and they always provide one. There are 45 people in every class. But not all 45 are going to need a modification at any given time. It might be 2 or 3 and they will likely need a similar modification. It's not as taxing as you made it sound. And it works that way in every gym I've ever been a member of. 🤷‍♀️

 

All that to say that I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for modifications unless a class is advertised as being expert level only, which the classes on ship are not. And I think OP was justified in sharing their experience and warning other folks who might want to take those classes. 

[memoak]

16 minutes ago, rheathslc said:

I have also been a member of various gyms and studios most of my life as well as having three sisters and a mother who are all fitness and yoga instructors. They all know how to and do provide modifications for people who need them in any group class they lead.

 

I recognize that the instructors on the ship might not be the best trained. I would probably have lower expectations of their ability and qualifications than most instructors at my local gyms and studios. But to claim that a typical trainer cannot or should not provide modifications is misguided imo. A good instructor should be able to give basic modifications for anyone who needs them. In fact the instructors at my current studio demonstrate every exercise and either also demonstrate a modification or say that if you need a modification to let them know. I have a knee that gets angry sometimes and I ask them when I need a modification and they always provide one. There are 45 people in every class. But not all 45 are going to need a modification at any given time. It might be 2 or 3 and they will likely need a similar modification. It's not as taxing as you made it sound. And it works that way in every gym I've ever been a member of. 🤷‍♀️

 

All that to say that I don't think it's unreasonable to ask for modifications unless a class is advertised as being expert level only, which the classes on ship are not. And I think OP was justified in sharing their experience and warning other folks who might want to take those classes. 

On a cruise ship the number of obese people is much larger than your usual gym. I would suspect at least 15 people would need accommodation 

[startedwithamouse]

4 minutes ago, memoak said:

On a cruise ship the number of obese people is much larger than your usual gym. I would suspect at least 15 people would need accommodation 

I would also bet zero would be paying $30 for the class if it didn't come with the package.  It's not an everyone gets a trophy room.  

Edited 1 hour ago by startedwithamouse

[MsSoCalCruiser]

13 hours ago, startedwithamouse said:

Fitness instructors aren't cast members. 

But how do you know this?

[Firefly74]

22 hours ago, startedwithamouse said:

 

 

They are basic fitness classes, not physical therapy sessions, and they're not for everyone.  ANY exercise class can be dangerous if you're not in good physical condition.

 

Should other participants not have the class they signed up for in order to accommodate guests who shouldn't take the class? (you stated you were elderly and out of shape) No.

 

Would you have been there if it weren't included in the package?  Only you know your limits, not anyone else. No need to blame Princess.

 

I don't expect any fitness class to adapt to limitations, unless it's a physical therapy session. 

 

 

 

I agree that ANY exercise class can be dangerous. But I have taken a great deal of fitness  and yoga classes and OP is correct that a good instructor for a stretch class can teach on several levels at the same time and make suggestions for how to do it. They do NOT have to adapt the whole class to achieve that.

 

I do my own thing and have watched some good Princess instructors and some bad ones while doing so. Having watched some of the bad ones and knowing the ages of many of the people taking the classes, I am surprised there are not more injuries. It also would be good to add a class specifically for fitness beginners.

 

[rheathslc]

1 minute ago, memoak said:

On a cruise ship the number of obese people is much larger than your usual gym. I would suspect at least 15 people would need accommodation 

That's great! I for one hope more people with larger bodies start to feel comfortable, welcome, and accomodated at all gyms, whether on land or sea.

Obese does not equal unfit or unhealthy. And one can need accommodation for a variety of reasons. I am obese and I'm also quite active and healthy. I swim on a master's team, hike and backpack, and take OrangeTheory classes which are very challenging. I also have old injuries (that occurred when I was at my thinnest btw) that mean I require modifications of certain movements no matter how strong or fit I am.

This is not about obesity but even if it were, people with larger bodies deserve respect and access as well.

Even if it's 15 people in a class that need them, providing modifications is a standard practice in group fitness classes.

[Firefly74]

1 hour ago, memoak said:

For those of us who sail several months per year and use the gym to stay in shape it gets very old to see people come into the gym and treat it like Disneyland. Never seen a treadmill don’t ask how to use power it up and fall off and scream that Princess injured them

And here we have the gym-goer attitude I really dislike. Some of the best exercise tips I have gotten have come from the kind gym-goers.

[memoak]

1 minute ago, rheathslc said:

That's great! I for one hope more people with larger bodies start to feel comfortable, welcome, and accomodated at all gyms, whether on land or sea.

Obese does not equal unfit or unhealthy. And one can need accommodation for a variety of reasons. I am obese and I'm also quite active and healthy. I swim on a master's team, hike and backpack, and take OrangeTheory classes which are very challenging. I also have old injuries (that occurred when I was at my thinnest btw) that mean I require modifications of certain movements no matter how strong or fit I am.

This is not about obesity but even if it were, people with larger bodies deserve respect and access as well.

Even if it's 15 people in a class that need them, providing modifications is a standard practice in group fitness classes.

Since I am getting attention should I get a partial refund ?

[memoak]

1 minute ago, Firefly74 said:

And here we have the gym-goer attitude I really dislike. Some of the best exercise tips I have gotten have come from the kind gym-goers.

These are classes people are paying for

[startedwithamouse]

4 minutes ago, MsSoCalCruiser said:

But how do you know this?

Post #40 explains who they are employees of. 

[Firefly74]

3 minutes ago, memoak said:

These are classes people are paying for

Apparently she paid for them too.

[rheathslc]

1 minute ago, memoak said:

Since I am getting attention should I get a partial refund ?

I suppose that's your prerogative.

As long as you get the instruction you need to participate in the class successfully why do you care if someone else gets a bit more than you? Providing modification usually happens after the general instruction and after those able to have started their exercise. 

I've not been in a class yet that an instructor providing modifications for someone else detracted from my experience.

[MsSoCalCruiser]

When did CC become such a rude place? 

[Firefly74]

2 minutes ago, MsSoCalCruiser said:

When did CC become such a rude place? 

Unfortunately, like any board, it happens from time to time.

[sanger727]

8 minutes ago, rheathslc said:

I suppose that's your prerogative.

As long as you get the instruction you need to participate in the class successfully why do you care if someone else gets a bit more than you? Providing modification usually happens after the general instruction and after those able to have started their exercise. 

I've not been in a class yet that an instructor providing modifications for someone else detracted from my experience.

 

I'm a frequent gym goer and class taker.  Modifications assume that you are doing something very similar to what the instructor is doing.  Maybe the instructor tells you to sit cross-legged but you sit with your legs straight.  I am sure I could lead a stretch and/or yoga class from having done them for years. I wouldn't have the first clue on how to modify those classes for someone sitting in a chair.  That is a completely different class and imo an unreasonable ask.

[Firefly74]

2 minutes ago, sanger727 said:

Modifications assume that you are doing something very similar to what the instructor is doing.  Maybe the instructor tells you to sit cross-legged but you sit with your legs straight.  I am sure I could lead a stretch and/or yoga class from having done them for years. I wouldn't have the first clue on how to modify those classes for someone sitting in a chair.  That is a completely different class and imo an unreasonable ask.

That's a fair way to look at it. The chair might be a whole additional issue.

[rheathslc]

7 minutes ago, sanger727 said:

 

I'm a frequent gym goer and class taker.  Modifications assume that you are doing something very similar to what the instructor is doing.  Maybe the instructor tells you to sit cross-legged but you sit with your legs straight.  I am sure I could lead a stretch and/or yoga class from having done them for years. I wouldn't have the first clue on how to modify those classes for someone sitting in a chair.  That is a completely different class and imo an unreasonable ask.

I don't think OP said the person asked if they could SIT in a chair and even if they did ask that they did not say the person wanted to do all stretches while using a chair. And if a chair wasn't appropriate for that specific movement something else could have (and imo should have) been suggested - like bracing against a wall or something else.

 

People are fixating too much on that one example the OP gave and ignoring the larger picture that modifications are common and should be provided in any group fitness setting.

[rheathslc]

10 minutes ago, sanger727 said:

I am sure I could lead a stretch and/or yoga class from having done them for years.

That may be the case. But trained instructors take training in much more than just memorizing the movements. They also learn how to train people safely including how to offer modifications. I know this because all three of my sisters and my mother are/were certified group fitness instructors at the national level as well as being certified personal trainers. One of my sisters has her 200 hour Yoga teacher certification. It is about way more than knowing the movements and poses. They learn basic anatomy and physiology as well.

[sanger727]

14 minutes ago, rheathslc said:

I don't think OP said the person asked if they could SIT in a chair and even if they did ask that they did not say the person wanted to do all stretches while using a chair. And if a chair wasn't appropriate for that specific movement something else could have (and imo should have) been suggested - like bracing against a wall or something else.

 

People are fixating too much on that one example the OP gave and ignoring the larger picture that modifications are common and should be provided in any group fitness setting.

 

I read the OP as saying the person wanted to do a chair stretching class, which wasn't what was being offered.

 

I don't know how well the fitness instructors on princess are trained.  I've taken some fitness class on Celebrity, and their instructors are not well trained at all. We took some cycling classes that were horrible.  We asked the instructor at one point about his training. He was a personal trainer who was assigned to teach spin classes and had no additional training in spinning. I love spinning. I have a bike at home.  His classes were so bad that we prepaid for 3 and didn't go back after 1.

 

I don't expect those classes to have people certified nationally in yoga as instructors.  I think they are fitness instructors who may get a minimal amount of training in the specific class they teach. 

Edited 1 hour ago by sanger727

[rheathslc]

1 minute ago, sanger727 said:

 

I read the OP as saying the person wanted to do a chair stretching class, which wasn't what was being offered.

 

I don't know how well the fitness instructors on princess are trained.  I've taken some fitness class on Celebrity, and their instructors are not well trained at all. We took some cycling classes that were horrible.  We asked the instructor at one point about his training. He was a personal trainer who was assigned to teach spin classes and had no additional training in spinning. I don't expect those classes to have people certified nationally in yoga as instructors.  I think they are fitness instructors who may get a minimal amount of training in the specific class they teach. 

I agree. I wouldn't trust that the instructors on the ship are highly trained. Which is not their fault. That is a failing on the part of the spa/gym contractor OneWorld.

 

My comments were mostly in response to someone who said that no gym they go to even on land provides modifications and that modifications are unreasonable and unnecessary and people who need modifications should be relegated to one on one sessions (that also cost more) before they are allowed to participate in group fitness. Which I wholeheartedly disagree with. That kind of attitude is why people in larger bodies don't feel welcome at gyms and studios.