Our Need to Know ---- Our Business to Know??

[sail7seas]

Another thread got me thinking about how much of what goes on aboard a ship is any of our business to know. What need is there for us to know. Are there things about which you would like more information and think it is your business to get those answers?

 

The example of what got me thinking this way is the question (...PERFECTLY LEGITMATE IMO for it to have been asked)............. "What happens to any tips that are given earlier in the cruise than it is yet known which passengers will leave the automatic tip in place? We know that any tips given to anyone by a passenger who chose to remove the automatic tip from their account must be turned in and be pooled. Early in the cruise, the Room Service Steward (for example) does not know if he will have to pool the tip a pax gave him. What does he do with that money until it is known?

 

If a ship is running with one engine out, should we be told? Should we be told it will be 3 days until it is fixed?

 

If there is NoroVirus aboard, should we be told?

 

If there is ANY contagious/easily spread illness aboard, should we be told? As in, we know there are 100 people suffering from colds?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Any other things you think are not explained to us that should be?

Any other things you wonder about but think (when honest) it probably is not any of our business or need to know?

[noblepa]

Another thread got me thinking about how much of what goes on aboard a ship is any of our business to know. What need is there for us to know. Are there things about which you would like more information and think it is your business to get those answers?

 

The example of what got me thinking this way is the question (...PERFECTLY LEGITMATE IMO for it to have been asked)............. "What happens to any tips that are given earlier in the cruise than it is yet known which passengers will leave the automatic tip in place? We know that any tips given to anyone by a passenger who chose to remove the automatic tip from their account must be turned in and be pooled. Early in the cruise, the Room Service Steward (for example) does not know if he will have to pool the tip a pax gave him. What does he do with that money until it is known?

 

If a ship is running with one engine out, should we be told? Should we be told it will be 3 days until it is fixed?

 

If there is NoroVirus aboard, should we be told?

 

If there is ANY contagious/easily spread illness aboard, should we be told? As in, we know there are 100 people suffering from colds?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Any other things you think are not explained to us that should be?

Any other things you wonder about but think (when honest) it probably is not any of our business or need to know?

 

If any engine goes out or any other mechanical malfunction happens, I don't really care, unless the passengers' safety, comfort or schedule is affected. If the ship can operate safely, will not ride any more roughly and the ship will arrive in port on time, with no missed ports, I don't care. If safety, comfort or schedule is affected, then, yes, I think that the pax have a right to know.

 

While I try to take the appropriate precautions, such as washing my hands and using the hand sanitizers often, I do want to know if there's an outbreak or Norwalk virus on board. I will rebouble my efforts. I think that the ship's staff should also take extra precautions, such as eliminating self-service food lines. This alone would probably alert most pax to the problem.

 

If any other diseases were discovered on board, it would depend on how contagious it was. On our recent Oosterdam cruise, on the last day, we were given a note with all the other "junk mail" that the steward delivers, that someone had come down with chicken pox (I think). The affected passenger had been confined on the second day. I and others in my party were a little concerned that we had not been notified earlier. OTOH, I don't know what I could have done differently during the cruise, or what steps the staff could have taken, other than quarantining the patient. So, maybe I didn't need to know, since there was nothing I could do.

 

I like to think that I am a rational person and that news of such things would not send me off the deep end. Judging from some of the stories, such as the QM2 azipod damager debacle of a couple of months ago, I know that some people would go absolutely ballistic, had they been told early in the cruise that a passenger had chicken pox. There might have been passenger mutinies in the hallways, as well as demands for compensation in the form of free cruises and huge shipboard credits.

 

The crew is definitely between a rock and a hard place. One one hand, they would probably prefer to keep pax informed; its the professional and courteous thing to do. On the other hand, they risk setting off unneccessary and possibly dangerous, passenger fears if they divulge too much. They can also open up the company to frivolous complaints and demands.

 

I'm just glad those decisions aren't up to me.

 

Paul Noble

[Oceanwench]

I think pax should be told if the norovirus is onboard.

 

We knew something was up when we were questioned before boarding about our health in the past week.

When we got to the Lido and could not get our own water/coffee/salads, we realized there was something going on.

 

There were a lot of rumors among pax over how many were actually ill -- 60 to 600. It was never addressed by the management in specifics.

 

But when the hot tub is closed, you're not allowed salt and pepper shakers at your table, and you can't touch the jewelry in the shops -- you know something is going on.

 

I'd rather be informed than left to sift through rumors. I'd rather know it was a small percentage of pax ill and the outbreak was being contained, if that were the case. If it were more dire, I would still want to know.

[rkacruiser]

sail7seas, I think you have posed a difficult question. Where does simple curiosity end and "need to know" start?

 

Some of us who are interested in all things maritime are often frustrated by not being told what we would like to know. But, then, if the officers told us everything--as a previous poster has said--that could lead to some passengers becoming unduly alarmed or concerned.

 

On the other hand, it has been my experience on HAL vessels that if one does ask an officer a question--one on one--you do receive an answer. Also, I have been on ships where the Captain, Hotel Manager, Chief Engineer, and Cruise Director did have a session where passengers could ask them questions. These were always appreciated by those of us who attended.

[Jemima]

I don't see a need to know how/if tips are pooled, distributed, or kept by the recipient. I don't ask all these details at a restaurant or hotel, so why should I need to know on a cruise ship? If added tips can be kept, fine. If they must be added to the pool, that's also fine and would probably be a plus for the steward.

[jhannah]

I don't feel a need to be informed of any of it unless it affects disembarkation and the flight home. Doesn't really matter to me how many sick people are on the ship. I will know if something's up by the increased level of cleanliness measures taken by the crew. But I'll still take my own precautions anyway, as I always do.

[grandsix]

While one can make a very good case for not informing the guests on a mass basis with the purpose of not starting a panic, the cruise lines Do have a moral obligation to truthfully answer any reasonable question asked on a one on one basis. If I ask whether there are a greater number of people getting sick or if there are mechanical problems or there are sanitary problems or I report problems with water color, I expect a truthful answers. Do you agree?

[twinkletoes4445]

I'd like to know if there is NoroVirus on the ship.

 

As for the pooling of the tips...I'd like to know because if I give "extra" to someone who has gone above and beyond, I'd like to know they are getting that extra tip. Why bother if it's going into the pool? I don't think everyone should benefit from this extra money. I do understand that all the regular tips go into the pool and then they are shared...I'm not sure I'd like this if I was someone who was really good...but I'd bet someone who is more of a "slacker" would like this (not that anyone is a slacker, but I used this for a general idea). But I do know that some people will take off the tips and leave nothing...so this shared system probably overall benefits everyone in the end. But I do want the "extra" tip going to the person I gave it to. And from what sail7seas has said, this is the case...so I'm happy. I also love the autotips going on our accounts. It makes things easy. :)

 

As for ship issues...unless it's going to change the itinerary or delay us getting back to port...I don't care.

[HeatherInFlorida]

The more I think about this and the more I've learned from being here on CC the more I realize that at least for me less is more.

 

The less I know the better. I don't even want to know if NoroVirus is onboard because it will just make me worry I'm going to get sick. It won't change anything I do hygienically so I would just as soon not know.

 

As to tipping and who is doing what, who is getting what and whether the honor system with regard to pooling tips is concerned ... it's just not my business and it won't affect how I tip. I never tip in advance so that's a non-issue for me.

 

So essentially, tell me if we're going off course, tell me if we're stopping at a different port or delaying our arrival. Tell me if you've run out of lobster tails:) . Beyond that, just let me be happy and stupid.

[Copper10-8]

That is a good question, S7S and it is also a valid one! I deal with that topic all the time at work and sometimes on a daily basis. I'm talking about a situation i.e. a traffic collision, a crime scene, a yard-to-yard perimeter search for outstanding suspects using canines and air ships,etc. When it takes a person out of his/her daily routine, we usually get the question. A lot of the time though, it is just plain curiosity or being nosy. We frequently use the term "lookie loo's" here on the west coast which, at times, is in itself the cause of additional accidents. We usually tell them the very basics based on the circumstances. If it's a big enough incident, it will be in the newspaper the next day and/or on TV that night anyway. There are however, details we will not and/or cannot tell them. There is also something called "right of privacy" that comes into play. It's the same on a cruise ship.

As far as what a "need to know" there is, I would say anything that threatens a passenger's personal safety and has a time frame attached to it. Extremely bad weather (rogue waves) can be included in this. An outbreak of a contageous disease? Sure, that has the distinct possibility of affecting all pax so I would certainly hope that the captain would brief his passengers. On the other hand, none of us need to know how or why a certain passenger passed away, a semi-frequent occurance on HAL. We don't need to know if there's been a fight among crew members. As far as the one engine failing, as long ast it does not affect our cruise i.e. our arrival time, it's none of our business. If it causes a substantial delay, it is. People sometimes think they have a "need to know" about a certain topic and/or incident but they really don't. There is a difference between a "need to know" and plain curiosity.

[babyher]

Sail,

 

Very interesting you should post this today.

 

This morning I was just reading a story about an incident on the QM2.

 

Supposedly two crew members got into a fight, one of the crew members beat the other one so badly he had to be airlifted off the ship and sadly died en route of his injuries. The crew member who attacked him was of course incarcerated in the ships "brig" until the got back to England.

 

Now naturally all the usual announcements were made as they are on any ship that has a patient airlifted. "Please clear such and such deck" so on and so forth.

 

But according to this report, after all was said and done, the captain actually made an announcement to all pax explaining exactly what happened between the two crew members and that the one crew member did in fact die.

 

I just thought that was odd. I have been on 2 cruises where someone was airlifted off the ship and there was never a word said about what happened by any crew or staff member. Plenty of rumor and speculation on the part of the fellow pax :). But nothing from the crew, much less the captain.

[bepsf]

Hmmm---

Failed Engine - Probably not.

Failed Propulsion System that may affect the cruise schedule - Dam right, I wanna know.

Failed AC or other secondary/tertiary system that could affect our comfort/safety - Yep, I wanna know that too.

Crew Fight - Don't want to know.

Crew fight that results in somebody being taken ashore via helecopter - I only need to know that he was injured - not that he was in a fight (tho they probably decided to tell the pax that his injuries were due to the fight so as to prevent a collection being taken on his behalf)

Pax Illness/death due to non-communicable causes - Don't need to know.

Pax illnesses due to Norovirus or other communicable diseases - Yea, I definately wanna know so I can take precautions.

[Cruiseoften]

Crew fight that results in somebody being taken ashore via helecopter - I only need to know that he was injured - not that he was in a fight (tho they probably decided to tell the pax that his injuries were due to the fight so as to prevent a collection being taken on his behalf)

Pax Illness/death due to non-communicable causes - Don't need to know.

Pax illnesses due to Norovirus or other communicable diseases - Yea, I definately wanna know so I can take precautions.

 

Human nature being what it is, somewhere someone will get wind of a story and pass it on, too there are those who wil go to great lengths to get every last detail and take a real delight at 'being in the know'. We've met a few on our travels!

 

Garamond's points:

1. probably not-

2..Agree if it will cause late arrival at last port, flight arrangements may have to be changed and the Front Desk is extremely helpful-

3..Agree

4.Agree-

5.. In some instances but details are not necessary;

6.. Agree;

7.. Agree.

 

Too many people get their knickers in a knot over Acts of God (loss of a port call because it was too rough to launch the boats). Chances are good that you'll have a couple of free drinks, and maybe even (usually) the port taxes you paid.

[Spender Nui]

Everyone should know anything that effects their health, wealth or happiness.

[kryos]

I guess I'm one of those people who figures "ignorance is bliss." I really don't need or want to know every little detail of what is going on behind the scenes (in the engine room, on the bridge, etc.). Of course, if something is gonna seriously affect me ... like a major contagious disease outbreak occurred onboard ... something that I could take precautions to protect myself from if only I knew ... then, yeah, I would expect the officers to share that with me. If an outbreak of norovirus occurs onboard, sure ... I'd probably want to know that too ... and I think I would know when I saw all the salt and pepper shakers disappearing from the tables, as well as people insisting on serving me in the Lido all the time. :)

 

But, other than that ... I pay for my cruise. I pay to relax and enjoy my time onboard. I don't need to know about every little detail that the captain and the crew are dealing with. That's their problem and it's their job to efficiently handle those things so as to not impact my enjoyment of my vacation. Only if those things can't be handled without my knowlege should I be told about a problem.

 

Just the way I feel about it, I guess ...

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[gizmo]

Hmmm---

 

Failed Engine - Probably not.

 

I think you would want to know just based on the fact that a failed engine is going to cause delays and possibly missed ports.

 

I had a cruise on the Ryndam and they did notify us when we boarded that an engine was out. We arrived very, very, late in Antigua and all excursions were cancelled. We had 4 hours or less in Antigua. We had another port cancelled.

[BruceMuzz]

EVERY cruise on EVERY ship, there are suspected cases of Norovirus. Would you like a daily/hourly update on those?

Shall we make more announcements to let you know? We already get many complaints about too many announcements.

Shall we put more papers in your cabin to announce it? We already get many complaints about too many papers in cabins.

How about a scoreboard in the reception? We can change the numbers every hour.

 

EVERY cruise we have several broken bones and one or two heart attacks / strokes. Do you need to know about those?

How about deaths?

We have one or two of those every week. What about the family's privacy?

 

EVERY cruise we dismantle one or two engines for overhaul or servicing. Do you need to know about those?

 

EVERY cruise we have about 60 staff going home on vacation and another 60 boarding to replacing them. Do you need to know about that?

 

The Captain extends and retracts the stabilizers many times during the cruise. This often affects the way the ship rides. Shall we announce it?

 

EVERY day on every cruise, several idiots flush strange things down their cabin toilets and stop up the line that services another 60 cabins. Shall we make an announcement or send letters every time that happens?

 

Who decides which frequency levels of any of these events will require an announcment?

 

We could probably keep these announcments to under 50 or 60 a day. Or maybe we could put another 50 or 60 pieces of paper in your cabins every day?

Or maybe we could re-model the Sports Bar. Change the name to "The Situation Room". We could hire some extra staff to post the latest gossip and onboard news for those who just have to know the latest.

Maybe we could hire Wolf Blitzer. He could do a live play by play on your cabin televisions.

Who needs to visit the Great Wall of China when you can watch programming like this??????

[K&RCurt]

I think you would want to know just based on the fact that a failed engine is going to cause delays and possibly missed ports.

 

I had a cruise on the Ryndam and they did notify us when we boarded that an engine was out. We arrived very, very, late in Antigua and all excursions were cancelled. We had 4 hours or less in Antigua. We had another port cancelled.

 

I think Brian was ver specific in his detail. I am not sure everyone understands how the propulsion on the ships work. Please excuse me if I'm relaying information you already know, but I think some clarification is in order.

 

The ENGINES on HAL's ships turn generators, which supply electrical power to the MOTORS that propel the ship. Typically one ENGINE is shut down and available as a back-up. Therefore if an ENGINE fails, the off-line ENGINE is brought up and the ship continues as if there is no problem while they repair the now broken off-line engine.

 

If, as Brian stated, a Propulsion unit, or MOTOR is broken, the most the ship can achieve is less than 1/2 it's normal speed.

 

A ship can still sail, at reduced speed, with more than one ENGINE down.

 

I would still want to know, but primarily due to curiosity of the engineering details of the ship. If the speed isn't affected I don't feel I "Need" to know.

 

I feel I do NEED to know about any outbreaks of communicable illness.

 

I would LIKE to know the specifics of how tips are distributed, but, anyway it works, if I tip someone extra they will still get more than if I didn't. It's between the individual crew members and their employer what the policy is and how it's enforced.

[Krazy Kruizers]

I do believe that we should be told when there is the Norwalk virus on board - we got the letter in the cruise terminal on our last cruise so there weren't any surprises when we got on the ship.

 

And we should be told when an engine is working and be informed of arriving at ports late and possibly missing ports.

 

And we should be told when we have to make an emergency medical airlift or amke an emergency port stop.

 

Passengers respond better when they know what is going on.

[K&RCurt]

EVERY cruise on EVERY ship, there are suspected cases of Norovirus. Would you like a daily/hourly update on those?

Shall we make more announcements to let you know? We already get many complaints about too many announcements.

Shall we put more papers in your cabin to announce it? We already get many complaints about too many papers in cabins.

How about a scoreboard in the reception? We can change the numbers every hour.

 

I think everyone would agree that the passangers should be informed if the number of sick gets above a cretain, undetermined, level. NO, there shouldn't be a public "scorecard" but there damned well should be a record kept by the medical staff and when it becomes evident that the "onesy-twozie" level has turned into an outbreak, the entire compliment of passangers should be informed.

EVERY cruise we have several broken bones and one or two heart attacks / strokes. Do you need to know about those?

How about deaths?

We have one or two of those every week. What about the family's privacy?

 

None of the rest of the Passanger's business.

EVERY cruise we dismantle one or two engines for overhaul or servicing. Do you need to know about those?

 

Only if it's slowing the ship down to the point of changing the port times or itinerary.

 

EVERY cruise we have about 60 staff going home on vacation and another 60 boarding to replacing them. Do you need to know about that?

 

No need to know.

 

The Captain extends and retracts the stabilizers many times during the cruise. This often affects the way the ship rides. Shall we announce it?

 

Just a normal part of ship operations, no need to know.

EVERY day on every cruise, several idiots flush strange things down their cabin toilets and stop up the line that services another 60 cabins. Shall we make an announcement or send letters every time that happens?

 

If it is affecting the plumbing in my cabin...yes I should be informed. If it is making the hallway on the way to my cabin smell like a sewer...Yes I need to know. If the affected area is near the main lobby and the entire atrium smells like a sewer...EVERYONE needs to know.

 

Who decides which frequency levels of any of these events will require an announcment?

 

The Captain or his designees

We could probably keep these announcments to under 50 or 60 a day. Or maybe we could put another 50 or 60 pieces of paper in your cabins every day?

Or maybe we could re-model the Sports Bar. Change the name to "The Situation Room". We could hire some extra staff to post the latest gossip and onboard news for those who just have to know the latest.

Maybe we could hire Wolf Blitzer. He could do a live play by play on your cabin televisions.

Who needs to visit the Great Wall of China when you can watch programming like this??????

 

A little "over the top" based on the fairly reasoned responce on this thread....Don't you think?

 

 

Just my thoughts.

[RevNeal]

We could probably keep these announcments to under 50 or 60 a day. Or maybe we could put another 50 or 60 pieces of paper in your cabins every day?

Or maybe we could re-model the Sports Bar. Change the name to "The Situation Room". We could hire some extra staff to post the latest gossip and onboard news for those who just have to know the latest.

Maybe we could hire Wolf Blitzer. He could do a live play by play on your cabin televisions.

Who needs to visit the Great Wall of China when you can watch programming like this??????

 

Bruce, you crack me up ... thanks for the laugh! :D

[gizmo]

K&RCurt,

 

Thanks for the explaination, it was excellent. :) I had no idea how these thing work on a ship.

 

I don't know what the deal was on our cruise, but I can only post what we were told and that was an engine was not working, they were waiting on a part, and we would arrive very late in Antigua. Maybe they used the term engine to make it simple and not get into any techy details ? Maybe my memory is going and I only think they said engine. :D

 

Now back to the subject. Whatever was busted and caused delays, I appreciated being told. I do think pax should be told.

 

Passengers respond better when they know what is going on

I agree with KK.

[lougee1043]

As for the pooling of the tips...I'd like to know because if I give "extra" to someone who has gone above and beyond, I'd like to know they are getting that extra tip. Why bother if it's going into the pool? I don't think everyone should benefit from this extra money..

 

all i need to know and i do is that if i dont remove the auto tip any other cash that i give out stays only with the person i give it to--

 

---if i remove the auto tip then that cash has to be divided to the same crew members had i left the auto tip in place

[RuthC]

EVERY day on every cruise, several idiots flush strange things down their cabin toilets and stop up the line that services another 60 cabins. Shall we make an announcement or send letters every time that happens?

This one I do want to know. I especially want to know who is doing it. They aren't getting invited to tea in my cabin! :D Nor will they be invited to my home when they're passing through town. :rolleyes:

As for what else should I be informed of---those things that will have a direct impact on me. Will the ship miss a port, or be delayed? That impacts my shore excursion plans, so I need to be kept informed. What alternate plans are the powers that be implementing? Sure, fill me in when it's arranged. Is there a change in the usual and customary procedures? Tell me the new procedure so I know what to expect and what to do. I don't need all the details on "why", but a few would be nice.

When I managed an office I insisted on knowing everything that was going on since I was responsible. On the ship I'm not in charge. Hurrah!

[BruceMuzz]

K&RCurt,

 

You got me. Yes, it is definitely way over the top. That was my point.

EVERY day I have people in my office, complaining that they were charged for satellite telphone calls. "Nobody told me we have to pay for those".

 

EVERY Cruise I am out in the Terminal, explaining to several people that they cannot sail with us, because they failed to bring any documents valid for International Travel. "Nobody told us" we need a passport for international travel is always their answer.

 

And when the toilet stops working because somebody flushed something strange down theirs, the ones who did the flushing always complain the loudest. "Nobody told us that we shouldn't flush a pool towel down the toilet."

 

Should cruise lines and ships deliver more information to their passengers? Absolutely. But via what means? More announcements? Don't even go there. We get killed every week by people screaming about too many announcements already. Plus, no matter how many times we explain to tune the TV to the proper channel to hear the anouncements in your cabins, you see all these idiots with their heads hanging out the cabin door, trying to hear the announcements in the corridor.

Then when we do make announcements about late arrival, not congregating in gangways, or showing up on time for immigration inspections, it appears that either we are speaking an unknown foreign language - or nobody is paying attention.

 

Should we send more printed material to the cabins? EVERY week I receive between 50 and 100 complaints about too many pieces of paper already. Besides, judging from the responses, passengers rarely read papers sent to their cabins anyway.

 

Recently, as a joke, I assembled a mock daily program, containing all the information requested by past passengers who complained about lack of information about the ship and the cruise. This "daily program" was 27 pages long - without including any of the daily activities. Do you think anyone would read it? Bear in mind that I meet a sizeable number of passengers every day who cannot even tell me the name of the ship they are currently sailing on. Obviously those huge letters painted on the sides and stern of the ship - as well as the name printed on virtually every object onboard - are not working.

 

In recent years I have spoken with many passengers who seriously thought that the cruise line should offer a 2 or 3 day pre-cruise orientation before taking passengers on a 7-day cruise. Interesting idea - but is it a rational one?

"Boss, I need to take an extra 3 days for my vacation to attend Remedial Cruising 101."

 

Seriously, there is a problem here. Some people really do want to stay informed. So what shall we do??

 

For starters, cruise passengers should surf the net and read up on their cruise on sites like this one. But about 99% of the cruising public do not.

Next, cruise passengers should go carefully through the website of the cruise line they have booked with. After speaking with so many, it is painfully obvious that they have not done this.

I always recommend that passengers read through their cruise contract, either printed on the back of their cruise ticket, or attached to it. They should have done this before the cruise started ("Your use of this ticket constitutes a binding legal agreement to the rules and regulations contained herein") After many years of cruising, I have yet to meet a single passenger who has read the entire thing. I remain eternally optimistic that there are a few out there who have read it - I just haven't found them yet.

 

Then there is the Trust Factor. Last year in North America alone, many more people were killed and injured by riding lawn mowers, than were killed or injured on ALL cruise ships - worldwide - in the past 50 years. It seems that the American public is blindly jumping onto these lawn mowing machines and falling into all sorts of human carnage. But yet, there is no great hue and cry for full disclosure from John Deere, Sears & Roebuck, or Toro.

With such marvelous safety records, I tend to put quite a lot more trust in Captains of Cruise Ships than I do with Lawnmower Salesmen. I figure that in most situations, if there is something I REALLY need to know, the Captain will make a point to tell me in a timely fashion. But it seems that many disagree with me.

 

And as many have already pointed out: If you really want to know something, why don't you just "Ask Somebody"? I always recommend an officer with a lot of stripes. They are usually pretty nice people, well informed, who normally go out of their way to help you stay informed. That is - if that's what YOU want to do on your vacation.