All Inclusive HAL

[Desdemona01]

Okay. Peace. C'mon, isn't this enough about this? I was trying to cover all bases.

 

What I'm trying so hard to tell you is that I got a complete course on what a Vegan is on that cruise over a 2 week period. A Vegan is, of course, a Vegetarian and if I want to be picky I could carry this further, but I'm not and I won't.

 

Let's drop it. It's nitpicking about my overall point and I haven't the foggiest notion why you're going after me about it. I am done with this part of the discussion.

 

I'm absolutely not nitpicking--I'm correcting a misstatement. Many of the problems that vegetarians and vegans run into are because people assume that they know what each term means and they don't. Many people call themselves vegetarians just because they avoid red meat. This causes confusion when real vegetarians try to order a meal and a well-meaning cook or chef adds fish, chicken, or the aforementioned bacon to their food. Had you not stated that vegans are not vegetarians this would have ended long before now. I"m not "going after you", just correcting a factual error.

[xpcdoojk]

Funny, I am an economist, too.:p From a purely economic point of view why would many of the current passengers who don't want a fully stocked bar in their room have to pay upfront for something that they won't use? Remember from a persons point of view they want to maximize their experience and paying for drinks that they don't want is probably not going to move them towards any personal maximizing outcome. So, from a HAL point of view they may lose some valueable customers. Some people have been to the ports many times and have zero desire to partake in the mysteries of Jamaica, for example, and they like to spend their time on the ship reading a book in quiet contemplation. So again, you risk alienating more customers because they are being hit with a bigger bill in order to take their vacation than before. Don't you think that with the equilibrim price being higher that they will move in a different direction on their personal indifference curve. Again, HAL loses another valueable customer. What is in it from HAL's perspective? They now have lost some customers, but gained you. Someone who doesn't want to pay full price for all of the goodies, but wants others to pay the freight for him so he can get an all-inclusive price and can hog all of the amenities. When spa visits cost in a typical case $100, the price of the activity limits the quantity demanded for the spa. In your scenario the spa being included will be in demand greater than they currently can supply. So, how are they going to ration their services. I am betting you mr, new to HAL will be on here in a future world of your design as a sea lawyer to go with your sea economic theories. JMHO:rolleyes: :D

 

jc

 

PS when I am losing a discussion the first thing I ask is for the moderator to remove all of the evidence. I am sorry, but I can not approve your dissertation at this point. :rolleyes:

 

 

I am sorry Ruth that our feeling of what HAL is not in the same ball park and also if anyone else is offend by my opinion of HAL being a premium line sorry again I meant no harm.

 

I feel like this thread is turning into a problem so if the Moderator wants to close this thread they can.

 

I am an Economist and thinking about the HAL brand and what stands behind it I thought of maximizing my consumptions so I thought that if I could sail on HAL with all the traditions and atmosphere that known to HAL veterans at a price that includes all cost I would jump on it.

 

I also see people are focusing too much on liquer what about excursions and grauity being included. Excursions today run on an average today in the Carribbean sailings 50 per person so four ports you have 200 added on to the sailing so if you pay 300 premium ontop of the fare today for grauity, liquer, and excursions included I believe that is a bargin.

 

Paul

[Oceanwench]

Actually, HAL has a full vegetarian menu, so there is no more "time and effort" involved than if the pax ordered off the "regular" menu each night -- or ordered one of the alternative items from the bottom of the regular menu!

 

Also, one must pre-order from the vegetarian menu. So on Tuesday evening, at the end of dinner, the waiter would give one the menu from which to order for the next evening's meal.

 

This whole "who subsidizes whom" argument is getting ridiculous.

There are all different aspects of a cruise, some of which we partake, others of which we don't.

[caviargal]

I want to apologize first if some people are offend by the question or me posting a poll. I seem to have ruffled some feathers! LOL

 

HAl is a luxury brand meaning that they offer a product that is higher then the norm (NCL, Carnival, and Princess). If you go to cruise reviews sites you will see that HAL sits right next to Celebrity they are honestly thought of a Luxury Line.

 

I respectfully disagree with your statement.

 

Luxury lines include Crystal, Seabourn, Regent, SeaDream, Silver Sea. All but Crystal are inclusive of tips and drinks (Regent as of 1/07).

 

HAL is generally considered to be a premium line but it is still part of the mass market group of cruise lines. Celebrity is also a premium line, but not of luxury caliber.

 

To answer the original question, I don't think HAL would fill their ships as an inclusive line and I do not think their parent company would ever allow it.

 

I appreciate that they still allow me to bring my preferred wines onboard and pay a fair corkage fee and their room service is done very well. Some lines that are lumped together with HAL on occasion (Princess comes to mind) offer very limited room service and charge extra for a balcony breakfast and balcony dinner that is scheduled at their convenience.

 

I agree with the poster that stated there are components of every cruise that we as individuals do not use yet subsidize as part of our cruise fare. In my case, that includes child programs, production shows, lectures and any group activity.

 

They offer a good product all in all, IMO, and I appreciate the good service and still fairly formal atmosphere aboard, as well as the good size of their ships vs passenger capacity.

[xpcdoojk]

I'm absolutely not nitpicking--I'm correcting a misstatement. Many of the problems that vegetarians and vegans run into are because people assume that they know what each term means and they don't. Many people call themselves vegetarians just because they avoid red meat. This causes confusion when real vegetarians try to order a meal and a well-meaning cook or chef adds fish, chicken, or the aforementioned bacon to their food. Had you not stated that vegans are not vegetarians this would have ended long before now. I"m not "going after you", just correcting a factual error.

 

I love PETA. People Eating Tasty Animals. But hey, that is just me! :D I am betting someone won't laugh at my joke. Which by definition means some nitpicking is going on. :D

 

jc

[Guienevere_Arianette]

Maybe HAL could instead offer add-on packages; you know, they have soda cards on some cruises, so why not for the heavy drinkers have wine/liquer cards? Actually, they could have all types of packages to add on; these are big sells with other industries.

 

I'm just making this up :D , but something like "On top of your cruise fare, you have the option of adding on Package A (a wine card and one shore excursion ) Package B (two shore excursions), Package C (two photos, a soda card, and a coffee card)"...I mean, the possibilities are endless.

 

I think that those of us who don't want to pay for others to drink soda/wine or go on their shore excursions, that's great; but for families of four or more, or perhaps couples who drink like fish, getting a package will take some of the bite out of paying for everything a la carte.

 

OK, flame me...how dumb is this idea:rolleyes:

[AlohaPride]

I love PETA. People Eating Tasty Animals. But hey, that is just me! :D I am betting someone won't laugh at my joke. Which by definition means some nitpicking is going on. :D

 

jc

I thought it was funny...

 

kinda

[ASue]

The only thing I would like to see added to the price is the $10.00 a day for tips.

[HeatherInFlorida]

I love PETA. People Eating Tasty Animals. But hey, that is just me! :D I am betting someone won't laugh at my joke. Which by definition means some nitpicking is going on. :D

 

jc

 

:D Hi, jc! You got me laughing;) ............

[kryos]

I'm just making this up :D , but something like "On top of your cruise fare, you have the option of adding on Package A (a wine card and one shore excursion ) Package B (two shore excursions), Package C (two photos, a soda card, and a coffee card)"...I mean, the possibilities are endless.

Can you imagine the poor bar stewards trying to keep track of all these extra "packages" and having to check everyone's room cards to see what color they were? :)

 

Seriously, though, aren't the all-inclusive lines smaller ships, smaller fleets? I don't think Regent has that many ships in their fleet, do they? Same with Crystal, Seaborne, etc.? All inclusive works better on small ships where the service can be more personalized. I don't think with HAL's larger ships and larger fleet that such a program would work very well. True, you can get free drinks if the line went all-inclusive, but might have a hard time getting served promptly if the bars were crowded because now everyone is drinking more.

 

With the exception perhaps of the Prinsendam, I don't think HAL is a line set up to offer an all-inclusive atmosphere. There are simply too many passengers onboard for the bar servers to be able to handle all the extra people who would be availing themselves of drinks that they ordinarily wouldn't if they had to pay separately for them.

 

I get the feeling, though I am certainly no expert in luxury cruising, that part of the all-inclusive atmosphere is the smaller, more intimate setting of the cruise ship. When you have a ship only holding maybe 300 to 600 people, each one can have a luxury experience because the number is manageable for the staff. They can easily remember what you order when you walk into a lounge and can have it ready for you when you sit down. Your waiter and cabin steward can quickly get a handle on your preferences and have them met before you even need to ask. Somehow I think it would be very hard to offer a truly luxury cruise experience on a HAL Vista ship ... or even one carrying 1300 passengers. That's just way too many people to offer a truly luxury product to, in my humble opinion.

 

HAL should stick to doing what they do best ... and that is providing a unique, though mass market cruise experience. As long as HAL doesn't mess with those unique touches, they'll continue to do fine and don't have to go all-inclusive to continue to attract passengers.

 

Just my opinion ...

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[hammybee]

Rather than looking at all inclusive, I'd simply like to see HAL quit messing with what has worked and has given them a loyal base of customers that most businesses would die for. If that means raising our fares by $25 per person for a 7 day trip, then do it. Such a move on a 1200 passenger ship would generate $30,000 a week in addtnl revenue or almost $1.6 million a yr. Certainly that would be enough to cover these little nit-picky irritations that are causing many of us to question the direction HAL is headed.

 

I have to agree with the man who brings flying monkeys aboard. I would gladly pay $25,$35 or more to leave the traditional things in place and maintain quality. But I don't think there are enough of us to fill all the 7-10 day cruises. This then means HAL goes toe-to toe on price to fill the ship. Needing to do this too often means sooner or later something has to give.

 

It's the general public who confuse best price with best value and they end up getting what they paid for.

[serendipity1499]

The only thing I would like to see added to the price is the $10.00 a day for tips.

 

Second that...Tips should be added into the price of the cruise..I also consider HAL a Premium Line, not a Luxury line..

 

I too voted No, as we only take some HAL shore excursions in places we've never visited before...We also book many independent shore excursions as we enjoy personalized excursions & usually beat the busses & crowds...Seldom take shore excursions in the Caribbean as we've been there more times than we can count..Occassionally have wine but rarely hard liquor as it gives me a headache..And lastly, an increase of $300 per person for an all inclusive (including wine/liquor,shore excursions & tips) over and above the present fares does not sound realistic to me..I believe the cost would be a great deal more..

 

However if they included tips for 7 days & kept the fresh squeezed OJ, specialty coffees, lectures (the things that now set them apart from other mass market lines) I would be willing to pay an increase in our fare..

 

Rita.. The large Travel Wholesaler's which include, Hotels, Air, some City tours, meals etc. usually have a Program Manager escorting their groups..In addition to the quoted charges, they expect their clients will give their Program Managers $3.00-$5.00 per day per person extra in tips in addition to the quoted fare..I object to this..Again I believe that the tip for the program Manager should be included in the fare..And this is only from experience..Years ago no one tipped the Tour Conductors anything extra..Occassionally a group would get together & buy a gift for their Tour Conductor, but tipping as it is known today, was unheard of then..The local tour guides & drivers were always tipped, but never the group Tour Conductors..We were very happy when our passengers wrote letters of commendation & thank you notes to us..

 

JMO..:) Got to continue packing now..Betty

[eyegel]

As some of you correctly discerned, the point of my posting was to note all of us who cruise are ALREADY subsidizing HAL's providing every service and product which we do not personally use. In my opinion some early posters were making moral judgments about not wanting to subsidize overindulgence by those who might take advantage of free booze as an opporunity to drink themselves into insensibility at the expense of those who are more abstemious. I was trying to get people to engage in some critical self-analysis and examine their own expectations.

 

If we understood HAL's pricing model, every single one of us could probably point to half a dozen things that we do not use and would not miss. Their absence might save us $50.00 per trip. Would the overall experience of the average cruiser, however, be enhanced?

 

I am not an economist, but it seems to me that the economic models implicitly employed by those who do not want to "subsidize" inebriation are far too simplistic. It may very well be that, by providing free well drinks or free basic tours, HAL would attract more passengers who would fill cabins that might otherwised go vacant. None of us have the data to know whether offering such a benefit might not increase HAL's popularity so that the increased cabin sales would more than offset the cost of providing free services. There might even be a surplus left over to ensure that everyone

 

I had a variant of this same argument with my wife last night while awaiting the election results. When voting on various bond measures, her yardstick for supporting a bond was, "Will this benefit me and will the benefit to me exceed what it will cost me?" My perspective was, "Is the money going to a worthwhile purpose, even if I will not directly benefit?" It should not be too hard to guess what our differing political affiliations are.

 

I think that it would be nice to have more things included. I think that HAL might distinguish itself from other cruise lines and be able to provide more services at a comparable cost. After all, isn't that part of the complaint that some posters have? Certain traditional HAL amenities may be going by the board and they wonder what will soon be left to distinguish HAL from other cruise lines.

 

While I have about 15 cruises under my belt on Carnival, NCL, RCCL, and Celebrity, I have never actually been on HAL yet. I had been booked on a ten-day cruise on Celebrity, but had to change plans in order to attend a wedding which would have conflicted with our planned cruise dates. I am paying an 80% premium to go on a ten-day HAL cruise, because I had no other alternative. It will be interesting to see whether the service, products, and facilities are worth $500 more.

[sail7seas]

HAL, IMO, does distinguish itself from it's primary competition by offering more for a better price.

 

We find we are getting, by far, the most for our money sailing HAL.....but even more than the actual 'cash value', is the whole cruise experience as provided by their crews is superior in most every way from the lines I consider to be closest to HAL in category.

 

Not to say that Celebrity and Princess do not have great crews.......but HAL's are a whole different level IMO Our experiences on Celebrity and Princess (and once on RCI) were quite different in a number of ways but most particularly in our great appreciation for HAL's wonderful crews and elegant ships. It isn't always 'how many drinks are included or such........ For us, it is far more the elegance of HAL ships and the genuine, professional, attentive and special service we experience on HAL. That is included in our fare. Doesn't cost extra. ;)

 

JMHO.......as always.

 

[Desdemona01]

I love PETA. People Eating Tasty Animals. But hey, that is just me! :D I am betting someone won't laugh at my joke. Which by definition means some nitpicking is going on. :D

 

jc

 

gee, the last time I heard that joke was from a 12 year old, and the only ones who laughed were the other 12 year olds.:rolleyes: And since PETA wasn't even mentioned here the tie in is lame, at best.

 

do you make fun of everyone's personal and religious beliefs?

[jtl513]

do you make fun of everyone's personal and religious beliefs?

 

Oh, lighten up! My daughter is a vegetarian but she also has a sense of humor, and understands that she'll get some kidding about her belief. :mad:

[Desdemona01]

Oh, lighten up! My daughter is a vegetarian but she also has a sense of humor, and understands that she'll get some kidding about her belief. :mad:

 

I have an EXCELLENT sense of humor, when something is actually funny. Sorry, but I don't find humor at the expense of others' personal beliefs--why should anyone be "kidded" about them? Bulllies aren't just children.

[Joanandjoe]

Can you imagine the poor bar stewards trying to keep track of all these extra "packages" and having to check everyone's room cards to see what color they were? :)

 

Seriously, though, aren't the all-inclusive lines smaller ships, smaller fleets? I don't think Regent has that many ships in their fleet, do they? Same with Crystal, Seaborne, etc.? All inclusive works better on small ships where the service can be more personalized. I don't think with HAL's larger ships and larger fleet that such a program would work very well. True, you can get free drinks if the line went all-inclusive, but might have a hard time getting served promptly if the bars were crowded because now everyone is drinking more.

 

With the exception perhaps of the Prinsendam, I don't think HAL is a line set up to offer an all-inclusive atmosphere. There are simply too many passengers onboard for the bar servers to be able to handle all the extra people who would be availing themselves of drinks that they ordinarily wouldn't if they had to pay separately for them.

 

I get the feeling, though I am certainly no expert in luxury cruising, that part of the all-inclusive atmosphere is the smaller, more intimate setting of the cruise ship. When you have a ship only holding maybe 300 to 600 people, each one can have a luxury experience because the number is manageable for the staff. They can easily remember what you order when you walk into a lounge and can have it ready for you when you sit down. Your waiter and cabin steward can quickly get a handle on your preferences and have them met before you even need to ask. Somehow I think it would be very hard to offer a truly luxury cruise experience on a HAL Vista ship ... or even one carrying 1300 passengers. That's just way too many people to offer a truly luxury product to, in my humble opinion.

 

HAL should stick to doing what they do best ... and that is providing a unique, though mass market cruise experience. As long as HAL doesn't mess with those unique touches, they'll continue to do fine and don't have to go all-inclusive to continue to attract passengers.

 

Just my opinion ...

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

 

Rita, how unsanitary! You've taken the words right out of my mouth.

 

After one fantastic cruise on Regent (then Radisson), I applaud their decision to make it more all inclusive. It was great not having to tip, or to pay for wine and soda. We never did go to the bars fr anything stronger than coffee and iced tea; but might have joined others in a sociable drink had drinks been included. On the small Regent ships, or on Windstar (which we also loved, and which has flirted with the all inclusive idea), all inclusive is fantastic.

 

HAL covers an upscale market rather than a luxury one, has more and larger ships, and a more diverse clientele. I don't think all inclusive will work, for reasons stated by Rita. Therefore, I will vote no.

[Oceanwench]

Oh, lighten up! My daughter is a vegetarian but she also has a sense of humor, and understands that she'll get some kidding about her belief. :mad:

 

It seems it's easy to tell someone to "lighten up" when that person does not share your philosophy or belief.

You've got no emotions invested in that belief.

 

I've been told to "lighten up" when I get angry or upset at remarks made about people with disabilities.

Yeah ... that's a real joking matter to me. :mad:

 

Sorry, I don't find the joke about PETA to be funny at all.

 

I have to ask the jokester -- and those who laughed along with him -- what part about the ethical treatment of animals do you have a problem with?

 

So suddenly it's OK to poke fun at people's beliefs here?

Or activist organizations?

Is the NAACP next? Or Focus on the Family? Or PFLAG?

 

Knocking someone's beliefs is not nitpicking ... but it is so easy for the person doing the knocking to dismiss it as such.

[Randyk47]

Getting back to the poll at hand.....I'm actually kind of surprised, even though I was a "yes" vote in a kind-of yes way, that there are as many folks voting "yes" as there are. The vote, as I type this, is 60-40% against "all-inclusive" which is a pretty strong "no" vote but it's not exactly unanimous either. Some folks have suggested variations and maybe the 40% yes vote would indicate there might be some support to provide more inclusive services on some kind of package basis for a standard fee. Interesting thought but probably a nightmare to manage. :)

[AlohaPride]

So suddenly it's OK to poke fun at people's beliefs here?

Or activist organizations?

Is the NAACP next? Or Focus on the Family? Or PFLAG?

 

I thought it was funny. You didn't. People are different. That doesn't mean that those who want to make jokes (that some might like and others wont) should be censored. Many times I'll turn on the Comedy channel, find something I don't agree with and change the channel. If you don't like the joke that was made, say so and then drop it.

 

I think people take things too seriously.

 

Back on the topic of the poll, again, I voted YES simply because I don't want to worry about how much I owe after the cruise is done (by checking the bill, paying with cash/check/or charge, and then spending a half a day with closed bars and such). There are pleanty of things included in the cruise that DH and I dont intend on using (I'll let you know once we are done). For me it would be all about the simplicity of the last few days on board.

 

:D

[xpcdoojk]

gee, the last time I heard that joke was from a 12 year old, and the only ones who laughed were the other 12 year olds.:rolleyes: And since PETA wasn't even mentioned here the tie in is lame, at best.

 

do you make fun of everyone's personal and religious beliefs?

 

No, just those that take themselves way too seriously.:p I didn't realize that PETA was now a church, but I guess Ann Coulter was right after all. Learn something everyday around this place!:D

 

jc

[xpcdoojk]

It seems it's easy to tell someone to "lighten up" when that person does not share your philosophy or belief.

You've got no emotions invested in that belief.

 

I've been told to "lighten up" when I get angry or upset at remarks made about people with disabilities.

Yeah ... that's a real joking matter to me. :mad:

 

Sorry, I don't find the joke about PETA to be funny at all.

 

I have to ask the jokester -- and those who laughed along with him -- what part about the ethical treatment of animals do you have a problem with?

 

So suddenly it's OK to poke fun at people's beliefs here?

Or activist organizations?

Is the NAACP next? Or Focus on the Family? Or PFLAG?

 

Knocking someone's beliefs is not nitpicking ... but it is so easy for the person doing the knocking to dismiss it as such.

 

One day I was listening to a PETA person talking about the Canadians doing a seal hunt. Which I would never participate in, BTW. The PETA person said that the seals were as important as humans and killing the hunters is absolutely morally justifiable. At that point, I think PETA, and ELF and other nut organizations should be laughed at til the end of the world. They are just like the terrorists that think it is good to fly planes into our buildings because they will earn their entry into paradise.:mad:

 

jc

[HeatherInFlorida]

I honestly thought I was done with all this, but it's just too much. Everyone has to get a grip. No one was making any jokes about anything at all until someone started nitpicking at something I had said which had nothing to do with making fun of anyone.

 

For the record, there is nothing wrong with the ethical treatment of animals if that was the extent of PETA. But it's not. But we're not here to discuss PETA so I won't launch into a discussion about PETA member's behavior in certain instances:eek: .

 

Instead I'll try one more time because I want to make sure there's no confusion. Someone posted that people who eat meat on cruises are being subsidized by vegetarians.

The post went on to a larger extent but for the sake of argument I will focus only on this one comment. This post just begs controversy and I foolishly bit ... what else is new? I told the story about my friend who had the kitchen going nutty attempting to satisfy her palate with vegetables to suit her own personal taste. I never made fun of this woman. I enjoyed her companionship throughout the entire cruise. We're talking only about the cost involved in such an exercise.

 

Please understand that the vegetarian menu alone was not to her liking! So our waiter and the kitchen did its level best to bring her exactly what she wanted. I know this situation is an extreme, but the last time I was in the vegetable section of my supermarket I found the vegetables to be pretty expensive especially if you are heaping massive portions on the platter.

 

And so I stated that I do NOT agree that Vegetarians are subsidizing meat-eaters!!!! That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.:) (Please see my disclaimer in my signature).

 

How this turned into the high level of sensitivity now exhibited on this thread is beyond my comprehension and now I am truly done with it!!!:mad:

[michmike]

Guess I'm scratching my head wondering about the folks who want to know up front what their trip will cost and therefore think AI a good option. I mean, I understand the concept of that concern, but really....

 

We know when we book the trip that in addition to the cruise cost we will have costs for air, trip insurance, hotel pre-cruise, meals enroute and during precruise stay, tips during the transit portion of the trip, we research excursions beforehand online (always book our own independently) and know what those will cost, we factor in the cost of lunch in most ports, and we can typically predict within $50 what our onboard tab will run. We also factor in the auto tip plus the amount we typically tip above and beyond that.

 

I can accept the idea that perhaps a first time cruiser may mot take all those things into consideration, but having done it once you should have a pretty good feel for what costs will be.

 

I'd venture that on our cruises I can predict within 5% what the total costs will be before I ever leave home.

 

PS - Hammy - If you want to join the ranks of the monkey flyers, drop me an e-mail at tohoku at cablespeed dot com in the usual format and one might show up on your doorstep. *S*