Muggers fought off on Shore Excursion in Costa Rica (Liberty cruise..)

[editor@cruisecritic]

We've just launched a new story, following up on Carnival's plans to put the kibosh on calls at Limon. Thanks for your great comments; link is here: http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=1949.

We'll continue to provide follow-ups as necessary (definitely check back with us tomorrow, after the ship docks; bet it'll be a scene....).

Carolyn

[Wennfred]

No charges planned

 

The U.S. Embassy confirmed the account, but refused to release the name of the American who defended the group, citing his right to privacy.

 

 

Costa Rican officials interviewed the Americans, and said they wouldn’t charge the U.S. tourist with any crime because he acted in self defense.

 

 

“They were in their right to defend themselves after being held up,” Hernandez said. He said Segura had previous charges against him for assaults.

[flynrph]

While I agree that these passengers did what I think most people would do in this situation and I am glad they are safe, let's try to remember that a mother lost her son that day, maybe a sister lost her brother and possibly even a baby lost its Daddy. I know its hard to have compassion for people like this man but try to think a little deeper.

 

Let's think about this for a moment. Say one day I lose it and mug a bunch of senior citizens on a bus. Things that I know for a certainty:

My 80 year old mother would find me and kill me. Period.

My sisters, would find me, and kill me to save my mother the effort.

My sons, would kill me, cause it would be the right thing to do.

My wife however, would take her time dismembering me.

All families should have standards. Mine does.

[Wennfred]

let's try to remember that a mother lost her son that day, maybe a sister lost her brother and possibly even a baby lost its Daddy. I know its hard to have compassion for people like this man but try to think a little deeper.

 

The Next time you sail out of San Diego, let me know, I will take you to a not so nice place where 4800 Inmates live, these type of people caused grief and suffering to their families as well as the Victims families and live off the State like Rats.

 

Hernandez, the Costa Rican Police officer already stated that this piece of S.hit has had a violent record, a history of assaults.

 

Put yourself in the shoes of the Lady that had a Gun locked to her head.

 

 

Fred

[dansu]

We've just launched a new story, following up on Carnival's plans to put the kibosh on calls at Limon. Thanks for your great comments; link is here: http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=1949.

 

We'll continue to provide follow-ups as necessary (definitely check back with us tomorrow, after the ship docks; bet it'll be a scene....).

 

Carolyn

 

...just wait until other cruiselines follow CCL. I know the cruiselines are not the only source of tourism...but would you plan to go there knowing that the cruiselines find it so dangerous.

 

We were there a month ago, and you couldn't pay me to go on any excursion not hosted by CCL. Our tourguide was overly cautious, even when we transferred from the bus to the train, they pulled the bus up directly next to the train door, and we just stepped directly from one to the other. We were never in area that would expose us to unnecessary danger.

 

It's too bad though, because out of Panama, Costa Rica and Belize, the scenery really was the prettiest of the three. Although, the povery was very humbling.

[manhattenup]

We've just launched a new story, following up on Carnival's plans to put the kibosh on calls at Limon. Thanks for your great comments; link is here: http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=1949.

 

We'll continue to provide follow-ups as necessary (definitely check back with us tomorrow, after the ship docks; bet it'll be a scene....).

 

Carolyn

 

Carolyn, I got thru to Carnival about half hour ago (I am on Legend 3/8 which was scheduled into limon). Was advised that they cannot advise what "temporarily" means, and that at this point in time should plan on going to Roatan, but that could change back by time of my cruise.

[caribbean dreams]

Carolyn, at this point in time should plan on going to Roatan, but that could change back by time of my cruise.

 

Trust me , you will be much happier going to Roatan, it is one of the safer ports, if you need a good guide, check into Cynthia & Diane at Ratan taxi tours.

[sgriff17]

Before reading all of this, I always thought Costa Rica was one of the safer countries....I stand corrected! (And I don't mean b/c of this one incident...just the overall picture I'm getting)

[sharecruises]

I do not understand it really.....is there a pattern of violence there? Or incidents that are not being corrected etc??

 

Look at Jamaica....and Belize...they are also high crime...and various incidents there. A cruiser on Valor was attacked by a pet monkey at the Maruba spa resort and the resort did nothing for her, she may limp for life...

finally Island Marketing (belizecruiseexcursions) did remove Maruba from their list of tours...

 

One incident and they are removing Costa Rica...for a tour that was not a ship tour?? Is there more to this or??

 

I have asked many questions about the safety of Belize and been told to "use common sense">> tho I still fail to see how that helps LOL

 

It also reminds me of St Croix which used to be a port for Princess and other cruiselines...I was there in 97...on the worst private tour I ever was on, a taxi driver who was scary once we left port, he kept riding us to his "auntie" and "unclies">> shacks and stands with cheezo souveniers where we felt obligated to buy junk we did not want...

 

no one got hurt...we just felt unsafe and unhappy and bored and hot and tired and sick of the pushy cab driver

 

other tourists and cruisers were not so lucky there...there were various muggings/violence...and St Croix is no longer on many ship's port rosters

 

No loss to us...it is was a pretty bad day in St Croix, too bad they did not clean up their act. Not to mention St Croix is US Virgin Islands. Their sister island, St Thomas does great with the cruise ships.

 

I really think that the onus is on the country itself...IF they want US dollars, cruisers there, they need to police themselves, license their cab/tour drivers etc....I think that most all the drivers at the ports in St Thomas will treat you right or they won't be working there, the other drivers would run them off if there is a bad apple IMHO

 

Maybe some of these countries will take notice ...they can ask St Croix

[vacruizer]

I do not understand it really.....is there a pattern of violence there? Or incidents that are not being corrected etc??

 

quote]

 

I do think Carnival is doing the right thing in the short term due to possible backlash but don't necessarily think they should remove it long term. But there has been some past violence in that port.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=471637

 

Seems like there was also a recent story about a knifing from there. I don't think Limon is any more dangerous than a lot of other places but this incident made more headlines due to the story that went with it.

 

BTW - I checked some English language news sites out of Costa Rica and central America and couldn't even find mention of the incident. Now whether or not that's due to corrupt press or something like that I don't know. But I didn't see any evidence of any kind of uproar.

[dansu]

I do not understand it really.....is there a pattern of violence there? Or incidents that are not being corrected etc??

 

Look at Jamaica....and Belize...they are also high crime...and various incidents there. A cruiser on Valor was attacked by a pet monkey at the Maruba spa resort and the resort did nothing for her, she may limp for life...

finally Island Marketing (belizecruiseexcursions) did remove Maruba from their list of tours...

 

One incident and they are removing Costa Rica...for a tour that was not a ship tour?? Is there more to this or??

 

I have asked many questions about the safety of Belize and been told to "use common sense">> tho I still fail to see how that helps LOL

 

It also reminds me of St Croix which used to be a port for Princess and other cruiselines...I was there in 97...on the worst private tour I ever was on, a taxi driver who was scary once we left port, he kept riding us to his "auntie" and "unclies">> shacks and stands with cheezo souveniers where we felt obligated to buy junk we did not want...

 

no one got hurt...we just felt unsafe and unhappy and bored and hot and tired and sick of the pushy cab driver

 

other tourists and cruisers were not so lucky there...there were various muggings/violence...and St Croix is no longer on many ship's port rosters

 

No loss to us...it is was a pretty bad day in St Croix, too bad they did not clean up their act. Not to mention St Croix is US Virgin Islands. Their sister island, St Thomas does great with the cruise ships.

 

I really think that the onus is on the country itself...IF they want US dollars, cruisers there, they need to police themselves, license their cab/tour drivers etc....I think that most all the drivers at the ports in St Thomas will treat you right or they won't be working there, the other drivers would run them off if there is a bad apple IMHO

 

Maybe some of these countries will take notice ...they can ask St Croix

I'm sure CCL realizes that crime happens everyday in all of their ports, but this situation is a far cry from a mugging. In all likelyhood they anticipate a reaction from the locals beyond your occasional mugging incident, and they are taking the appropriate measures to avoid it. I'm sure CCL was instrumental in getting their passengers released from the local authority.

 

I'm also pretty sure that the 2 muggers that got away aren't reflecting on the death of their friend as a life lesson, and have turned their lives around. They are angrier now than before....it's human nature to blame others, even though you yourself are to blame.

 

JMHO

[Gator83]

They probably weren't in a bad area......the articles in teh paper and online say the driver had taken them to a beach.

[nrdsb4]

Before reading all of this, I always thought Costa Rica was one of the safer countries....I stand corrected! (And I don't mean b/c of this one incident...just the overall picture I'm getting)

 

There are murders every single day in Dallas and other big cities here in the U.S. Yet we have a very healthy business travel climate, lots of conventions, lots of successful businesses, a huge restaurant industry, great shopping, arts, music, cultural events, etc. I feel very safe here, and would have no qualms encouraging anyone to come here for business or pleasure. The key is to avoid particularly bad areas. So that should be the same when visiting tourist destinations. These islands and ports are no less safe than Dallas, Texas or Atlanta, Georgia. You just have to know which areas to stay away from. I personally think that you take a risk when you go with an excursion company that does not have a really solid reputation. Research, research, research is the answer, and know that no matter where you go, there is really no guarantee of your safety. And that's true at your local bank, grocery store, park, or neighborhood.

 

That said, I've never been to Costa Rica and couldn't vouch for this specific destination. But the news reports do highlight the fact that this was not a ship sponsored company, so who knows if these passengers really did their homework to make sure they were dealing with a reputable company.

[Gator83]

ABC news released the name of the bus driver this morning. I kind of feel for that guy if he wasn't involved - this will probably ruin his career. Now if he was involved that's a whole other matter. But we don't know the whole story at this point.

 

Anyone on any of the scheduled Costa Rica cruises in the near future received notification of an itinerary change yet?

 

Do you remember the name of the bus driver?

[Ms Belvedere]

Do you remember the name of the bus driver?

 

His name is in the link that Lightsluvr posted at the top of page 4 in this thread (#91).

[Florida Lady]

This is the SECOND incident in two months in Puerto Limon involving a passenger on the Carnival Liberty. I was in Puerto Limon on December 27, 2006 the day of this shooting.

 

Please see the link to the event at PORT OF CALL- Costa Rica board.

 

Carnival Passenger shot in Puerto Limon on December 27, 2006

 

 

Dave Counter, a passenger on a Carnival ship, was shot in the torso on Dec. 27 while in Puerto Limon, Costa Rica.

 

Counter, 49, was on a cruise with his wife Trudy and their sons Peter, 19, and Nicholas, 17, over the holidays when the ship made a stop at Limon, Costa Rica. He and his eldest son went for a walk when he was jumped. In a botched robbery, Counter was shot once, a bullet entering and exiting his side.

[vacruizer]

Do you remember the name of the bus driver?

 

"I was very scared at the moment," Costa Rican bus driver Roberto Frances Allen said in an interview in Limon. "The bus was shaking and women were screaming," he recalled. "There were two shots and I heard him (Segura) try to fire more, but the gun didn't fire. Luckily, the tourists had forced his hand up and the shots hit the roof of the bus."

[azsunshine]

Wasn't this port created in order to attract the cruise ships? there is really nothing of interest around there. Very low poverty area, and they were trying to attract the tourist dollar. I have always felt it was a waste of time stop. JMO

[jessemon]

Before traveling there is a very good source to look at (http://www.lonelyplanet.com)

Try looking at this from that site...

http://www.lonelyplanet.com/letters/cam/cos_pc.htm#Scam

It gives you a better perspective of what you are getting into.

[cruisecrasy]

Don't you just love that word...."alleged" mugger.

 

Sometimes you wonder who the bigger cowards are...the thugs or the media.

 

Just one time I would love to see a newspaper really tell it like it is:

 

"this afternoon, some snot nosed, brainless, arrogant weasel tried to prey on what he thought were some helpless elderly people and got his worthless, cowardly neck snapped!!"

 

Telling it like it shld be...My concern is for the folks who were threatened...the trauma they suffered will remain with them always..Enough about the 'poor' mugger - rapist - robber etc. they made that choice - the victims didn't!!

[cruisecrasy]

Let's think about this for a moment. Say one day I lose it and mug a bunch of senior citizens on a bus. Things that I know for a certainty:

My 80 year old mother would find me and kill me. Period.

My sisters, would find me, and kill me to save my mother the effort.

My sons, would kill me, cause it would be the right thing to do.

My wife however, would take her time dismembering me.

All families should have standards. Mine does.

 

Lets save compassion for the victims who didn't have a choice - hmmm?

[flynrph]

Lets save compassion for the victims who didn't have a choice - hmmm?

Yep! that was the point.:cool:

I have a hard time finding compassion for the family of the perpetrator. That family had an obligation to teach the offender right from wrong, and to come down on him when he strayed from the path. This is a latent quirk of mine from my southern heritage. (Sort of a proactive and preventative character moulding process. I am sure many of you have mothers and fathers, if they are still alive, who will jump on your case, even when you are a mature adult, if you get out of line. My mom will!)

[babyher]

Yep! that was the point.:cool:

I have a hard time finding compassion for the family of the perpetrator. That family had an obligation to teach the offender right from wrong, and to come down on him when he strayed from the path. This is a latent quirk of mine from my southern heritage. (Sort of a proactive and preventative character moulding process. I am sure many of you have mothers and fathers, if they are still alive, who will jump on your case, even when you are a mature adult, if you get out of line. My mom will!)

 

 

You hit the nail right on the head my friend . I am 44 years old and my mother would do exactly as your mom.

 

I am tired of this trend of everyones bad behavior being forgiven because 20 years ago "Mommy didn't hug me , Daddy didn't love me".

 

You need to look no further than this Anna Nicole freak show to see the effects of what happens when people who shouldn't even be allowed to tend to a plant end up raiseing children.

[dansu]

We all talk about our family values...our upbringing...well did momma know...apparently YES...did momma do anything to stop him....apparently NO! She is definately in a state of denial, as she is still blaming the wrong person! Someone should hand momma a mirror! :(

 

MSNBC February 24, 2007

But Ligia Herrera Mendez, the mother of the dead assailant, claimed the tourists of took the law into their own hands.

 

“We want justice, this can’t go unpunished, because they could have saved him,” she said in an interview in Limon. “If this had happened in the United States, the suspect would have been detained and wouldn’t have left the country.”

 

She also acknowledged past problems. “I know my boy wasn’t staying out of trouble, I knew that any moment I would get bad news.”

 

Is momma to blame....yes, and poppa too. We've spent the last 21 years instilling our family values on our boys, and we can only hope they will do the same when they have children...nurture not nature!

[flynrph]

We all talk about our family values...our upbringing...well did momma know...apparently YES...did momma do anything to stop him....apparently NO! She is definately in a state of denial, as she is still blaming the wrong person! Someone should hand momma a mirror! :(

 

MSNBC February 24, 2007

But Ligia Herrera Mendez, the mother of the dead assailant, claimed the tourists of took the law into their own hands.

 

“We want justice, this can’t go unpunished, because they could have saved him,” she said in an interview in Limon. “If this had happened in the United States, the suspect would have been detained and wouldn’t have left the country.”

 

She also acknowledged past problems. “I know my boy wasn’t staying out of trouble, I knew that any moment I would get bad news.”

Thank you Dansu for this quote from MSNBC. I had not read that.

Since I'm shooting form the hip on this topic, the mother here, is a dope.

First, Justice. It was metted out.

Second , punishment. It was metted out.

Third, "could have saved him?". She, being a dope, is fooling herself. He wasn't staying out of trouble, she knew it, and didn't do anything about it.

Fourth, finally she hit some solid ground. Well, maybe not so solid. Yeah, the defender might have been detained in the United States, but I am confident there is not an elected States Attourney anywhere in the United States willing to pursue a charge on a senior citizen defending themselves and others in this fashion and circumstances.

Fifth, here is where I seal the indictment on the dope charge. Her son wasn't in the United States, and most importantly forget to mention in his upbringing, not to mug a U.S. Marine, active or retired. They are trained to protect, often with deadly results.