gastronomy

[vistaman]

it is really very sad that Seabourn decided to go on with Charlie Palmer, while on board the ships wonderful executive chefs are working.

 

Just imagine the amount of nice fresh top good could be purchased in stead of paying royalties to a so called famous chef - the European guest simply do not like that style at all.

[cruiseyguy]

I think many Seabourn regulars would agree with you. It is sometimes difficult to understand the corporate mind.

[CruisinMatt]

I totally agree. Does anyone "in the know" have some details? Perhaps Charlie's contract just isn't up yet, etc?? :confused:

[Host Dan]

I totally agree. Does anyone "in the know" have some details? Perhaps Charlie's contract just isn't up yet, etc?? :confused:

Charlie Palmers menu has never impressed me, but the chefs own creations have.

 

Host Dan

[Martita B.]

Matt,

I believe they just renewed Charlie Palmer's contract.

I totally agree as to OUR Chef's abilities and qualifications ~~

I would rather Seabourn use $$$$'s for other things other than paying Mr. Palmer.

MB

[JaneBP]

Recently, on both the Pride and Legend, the Chefs told me that a new menu was developed and is to be phased in this fall. Apparently they were involved in it's development. Hopefully current cruisers will report favorably on these developments.

 

BTW, Martita, there are two ports in Gloucester; one is the commercial one and the other a smaller, just for cruise ships. They are not too far apart from each other, but I don't want you boarding a lobster boat by mistake!

 

Bob Voyage!

[Martita B.]

Thanks Jane ~~very good news as to the Cheffy's NEW menus ! I'll visit with Markus next week and will report as to what is planned.

MB

(Post Script: welll, I'll certainly try to stand on the

correct Pier ~~I wouldn't want to wave the Seabourn

flag at some dumpy lobster boat!!:eek: )

[Iamboatman]

On our little Food & Wine cruise in September on the Legend Chef Willy most certainly did a tremendous amount of creative (and delicious) work for us.

 

Also, I know work is being done to menus. When and how I cannot say, but I am sure most everyone will be pleased.

 

BTW, I had some very interesting discussions about how difficult it is to create menu items which please American and various European tastes at the same time. For example, beef which is juicy and running red is an American favorite, but if you were to provide that to an Englishman it would be downright repulsive. On the other hand, give an American a grayish piece of meat with a slight pink tinge and not a hint of juice and it would be frowned upon as a poor cut of meat that was also overcooked. New menus are not that easy...especially with such an international guest list.

[PittsburghJack]

I can appreciate the discussion in regard to American/European cusine as my parents were European.

Why not two menus/kitchens? I know from previous cruises, ethnic kitchens were established for crew members. Just a thought. Jack

[GrannyLorr]

Martha, when you visit with Chef Markus, PLEASE beg him to be onboard for the South American cruise!

 

the difference in a "European" steak to an "American" steak is interesting.......sounds the same in our house!! Hubby likes his beef to be still mooing! Not for me :eek:

[Iamboatman]

Two kitchens?! Crew food, American food, British food, Italian food, Spanish food, French food, etc., etc. Me thinks not.

[vistaman]

Charlie Palmers menu has never impressed me, but the chefs own creations have.

 

Host Dan

 

what everybody wants the seabourn management does not !

Charlie Palmer : OUT

 

canival influences?

[vistaman]

CEO mrs Conover and her team simply should realise what amounts of absolute top products could be purchased in stead of paying honoraries to a chef made by the media

 

top products : like fresh lobsters turbot veal seetbreads and more delicacies

 

if a junior chef in an european restauarnt should try to offer the dsh "lobster lobster lobster" , he was fired

 

i describe palmer's dish " the massacre of the seafood"

 

give full freedom to the chefs Willy , Michael Jochen and pascal

professionals in the galley , not to showpeople

[johnnycruise]

Why not two menus/kitchens? I know from previous cruises, ethnic kitchens were established for crew members. Just a thought. Jack

 

Seabourn offers two menus/kitchens - The Restaurant and "Tastings at 2."

[Iamboatman]

Vistaman, you have some very interesting comments. However, they highlight the problems with a few driving the menus of the many.

 

For example, I had a client on my last cruise that was, by accident, given a menu in her suite with Lobster, Lobster, Lobster. When it was not available she was VERY upset.

 

Another example: Sweetbreads. The thought of plating pancreas or other internal organs is repulsive to many people...so even putting it - or other internal organs - on a menu can be offensive to some.

 

A third: Fresh Lobster: How is that going to be done? Tanks with hundreds of lobsters (American, Spiny, etc.?) is not practical.

 

A fourth: Turbot. This is a horrifically over-fished species. Frankly I am troubled it is on a menu at all. In Marseille's fish market last month I saw all of 3...that's it.

 

Now, taking just those examples, the triplets (and soon to be big sister) need to be provisioned; mostly from the US for costs, availability, etc. Having 3 or 4 separate menus (times 21 days so there are no repeats for back-to-back guests) creates a logistical nightmare and a huge additional expense....which ultimately would be passed on to the guests.

 

Hopefully all will see that it just ain't that easy...and, besides, some good stuff is on the way. Charlie Palmer is not a "has been", but rather possibly his present menu "has been" used for just a little bit too long.

[johnnycruise]

Another example: Sweetbreads. The thought of plating pancreas or other internal organs is repulsive to many people...so even putting it - or other internal organs - on a menu can be offensive to some.

 

That would be a good argument if foie gras and chicken livers were not currently on the dinner and luncheon menus respectively.

[JaneBP]

>"Another example: Sweetbreads. The thought of plating pancreas or other internal organs is repulsive to many people...so even putting it - or other internal organs - on a menu can be offensive to some."

 

That would be a good argument if foie gras and chicken livers were not currently on the dinner and luncheon menus respectively.

 

Sweetbreads have been on the dinner menu as a starter. I've had them.

[Iamboatman]

I am not arguing that Seabourn must eliminate everything that is offensive to some, but rather that there is a difficult balancing act.

 

You mention foie gras (which I love) and I had a client very upset not only because it was on the menu, but because it was perceived as condoning animal abuse.

 

Also, yes, sweetbreads are occasionally on the menu. And, there again, vistaman complained because they were not. No, they are not often, but the balancing act requires they not be there on every cruise. (Remember NO repeats!).

 

And, let us not forget we are talking pretty high end/gourmet items here. How many cruise lines actually offer them on any cruises? I can count them on less than one hand (excepting, possibly, some exclusively European lines..but then they don't have many things American's enjoy and expect.)

 

I am not defending the menu selection. I am just trying to explain that there are many factors that go into planning and executing a menu so the expect ions - even on a Seabourn level - have to be reasonable. Multiple kitchens, live lobster tanks, meats that offend no one (even when served to a person next to a guest), 3 week rotations, international provisioning, food spoilage, consistent local suppliers and supplies, etc., etc., etc. make it quite difficult.

[wripro]

Eric, I appreciate your analysis of how and why Seabourn designs menus and provisions the ship. For me though it all comes down to one question which has already been raised here. Why is Seabourn paying Charlie Palmer what must be a huge royalty for menus which could easily be designed with more immediacy, more originality and less rigidity by the onboard chefs? I would rather see the money Seabourn is paying Palmer go to the staff.

[CruisinMatt]

Why is Seabourn paying Charlie Palmer what must be a huge royalty for menus which could easily be designed with more immediacy, more originality and less rigidity by the onboard chefs?

 

I totally agree, but it probably has to do with trends. Cunard has "Todd English" , Crystal has Piero Selvaggio, the list goes on and on...

 

I guess as veteran Seabourn cruisers the thrill of enjoying "Charlie Palmer" inspired menus has waned, but to the new cruiser, it just might be a "selling point".

 

This makes me think - does anyone know the average % of repeat cruisers across all the Seabourn sailings? Do they release these types of statistics. My guess it that it's quite high, which would mean listening to us would be to thier advantage! :D

[lord of the seas]

cruisinMatt,

You have said the very thing that is the problem regarding the cuisine.The fact is that seabourn has a very loyal repeat customer base and ofcourse seeing the same old food, prepared in the same way on every cruise gets a bit tedious.I try to encourage the Head Chef on board to be creative and discuss my likes and dislikes,this works a treat as this also gives Chef a break from the "Menu"

[Iamboatman]

I would not presume there is a "huge" royalty. I would, however, not shoot the chef because his menus haven't been updated as quickly as some/many would have liked. Let's see what he comes up with...and then shoot him if necessary.:D

[GrannyLorr]

Who is Charlie Palmer? His name certainly wasn't a selling point to us.Actually never heard of him. Doubt many Aussies would have, and we were almost half the guests on my first cruise. Are Europeans familiar with him? Bet Ronald McDonald is far better known! How many "repeat" menus do you think we will see in 85 days? :D

[wripro]

GrannyLorr,

 

Charlie Palmer made his name with a restaurant on East 60th St. in NY called Aureole. For a while it was a very hot place. Then. like other name chefs, he expanded his empire to other cities, Las Vegas included. Now, very few New Yorkers consider Aureole as a must go place.

[Iamboatman]

GrannyLorr,

 

Charlie Palmer made his name with a restaurant on East 60th St. in NY called Aureole. For a while it was a very hot place. Then. like other name chefs, he expanded his empire to other cities, Las Vegas included. Now, very few New Yorkers consider Aureole as a must go place.

 

You still can't get a reservation on the weekend and the food is excellent...especially the desserts.