I Think It Is Just WRONG!

[hammybee]

Putting aside whether or not a child sitting at a bar is going to lead to problems down the road, there is one overwhelming reason why I chose to not put my child at or in a bar. I view it as an adult enviornment. I made the decision to not offend others, most of whom visit a bar for an adult enviornment.

 

At the same time, I do not impose myself on CLub HAL, although at times it's been tempting.:)

 

I try to not offend and take no offence, when I cruise.

[Coastalbreezes]

I just wanted to weigh in with my small opinion.

 

When I am on a cruise, I enjoy a pre-dinner martini (or 2!) at any bar that will allow me to also enjoy a smoke with my martini. I can't tell you how many times - usually after I light up - a parent has parked their child next to me at the bar, then says something nasty about MY smoking in front of their kid! Give me a break.

 

IMO, let the kids sit at tables and not at the bar, period.

TracyE

[mickeyfitz]

We were on a cruise out of Rome on the Westerdam in May and spent several wonderful days in Rome pre-cruise. I would note that Italy has almost no problem with public intoxication and no significant problem with youth drinking, yet it has some of the most liberal drinking rules in the world. There are no limits on hours for bars and no apparent restrictions on serving teenagers alcohol. Restaurants commonly offered wine and an after-dinner lemonchello to our teenage girls without a concern for their age. In Italy the "bars" are the same places where you get coffee drinks such as espresso, as well as pastries and quick food items. There clearly was no problem with the whole family, including children, being present. The US on the other hand has some of the most restrictive drinking laws in the world and we have a terrible problem with binge drinking among our teenagers. Doesn't it make you wonder?

[hammybee]

Different cultures use/view alcohol differently. Wine is a part of immediate and extended family life and religious custom in most Southern European countries.

 

Alcohol is not used as an attempt to solve personal problems or escape from stress. Most alcohol is consumed, in moderation, with food as a part of a ritual. People generally do not drink to get drunk. People rarely go out for a drink. In otherwords, drinking is a rather benign activity.

 

The wearing of a lampshade ( I have been known to don one, on occasion), drunk driving, violence, public spectacles and alcoholism, things we attribute to alcohol consumption are, for the most part, a non issue in those countries.

 

Which group is one most likely to find in a bar in the U.S. or on a ship carrying a majority of people from the U.S.?

[bermuda triangle]

Isn't it illegal in most states to bring children into a bar, much less sit at the bar? I guess I would have been surprised to see it, but is it really so much different from sitting in a shorter chair at a table a couple of feet away?

 

In Connecticut, if you are with your parent(s) you may sit at the bar/enter a bar.

 

I personally don't think it is right, but maybe she wanted to sit at a bar stool and her parents indulged her because it was a formal night on a cruise. Maybe the bartender was entertaining her... ie.. oragami flowers made from paper and drink stirrers, or flower roses made from cocktail napkins. Maybe her parents moved over to the bar to thank him.

You just don't know. Unless you watched them walk into the bar and sit their with her.. you only have part of the scene...it is like walking into a movie that is halfway through.

 

I would not make that choice, but it was the parent's choice to make...

 

Laura

[Cruising-along]

Putting aside whether or not a child sitting at a bar is going to lead to problems down the road, there is one overwhelming reason why I chose to not put my child at or in a bar. I view it as an adult enviornment. I made the decision to not offend others, most of whom visit a bar for an adult enviornment.

 

Well said Hammybee. I choose HAL for (among other things) the fact that there aren't as many children. At the risk of getting flamed here, I'm just saying that we go on vacation to relax and enjoy ourselves, and that includes not sitting next to children at a bar. I work in retail and see the worst of the worst, parents who don't pay attention to what their kids are doing, or if someone says something, they get nasty about it. I am NOT saying that all parents are like this, far from it. We raised two active kids too, and I'm sure they annoyed plenty of adults in their day! :eek:

 

An example is when we were on our flight from Paris to San Francisco and the WHOLE flight the small child behind me kicked my seat. He was being quiet, he wasn't bothering anyone else, but he sure as heck was bothering me. Couldn't sleep, or if I did drift off finally, there would be the kicking again. I tried glaring at the mom, didn't work. Finally after several hours of this I said something, and her response was "Oh, is it bothering you???" :rolleyes: And then proceeded to let him kick again after 5 minutes. I'm sure she thought he was a very well behaved child, other passengers did too and commented on it (but he wasn't kicking THEIR seat for hours on end). This is just to point out that what one person thinks is well-behaved, another may not. (although I blame the mother, not the child in this case).

 

I also agree with RuthC about how a small child wouldn't make the distinction between a bar on the cruiseship and a bar at home.

[flashover]

We had our 5 year old on a recent Zuiderdam trip. We stopped at the ocean bar on 2 occasions to have a pre-dinner cocktail. Our daughter was quiet and well behaved. Why was she quite and well behaved? Because she has traveled extensively with us and we have taken her to fine restaurants (many with lounges-- shocking!). She has learned what is proper behavior and what is not acceptable. If we take her on a nice trip, I see no reason why she should not be allowed in a lounge to relax with us and enjoy a glass of orange juice. She learns by being with us instead of being stuck in the cabin with a sitter.

[DFD1]

Flashover: I could not have said it better myself. I brought up my own child using these same rules and am quite proud of the results.

 

As they are ready, children need to learn about the realities of life and how to manage them. IMO, there is no better way than to be a part of those realities under the protective supervision of a responsible parent.

 

For me, this is not a morals issue nor a drinking issue. It is about how best to prepare one's child to be a smart, aware, capable adult.

 

I respect those who differ.

[Charliesmom]

My philosophy is: if the kid was well-behaved and not impacting my time with bad behavior, it is the parents' right to have her there. Why should we judge other people by OUR standards if they are not bothering us?

 

We live in a multi-cultural world and are richer for it. There are many sets of standards, not all of which are practiced by everybody.

 

Roberta

[Wanna Cruise Again]

I AM NOT SUGGESTING THE CHILD SHOULD BE GIVEN A TASTE OF THE WINE! Though, in many European countries/other cultures, they would be and it would not be a big deal to anyone.

 

I was reading the responses and came across your comment. I was raised in France (military brat) and it was the custom for entire families to go to the neighborhood bar a couple of times a week. The kids hung out together (I was about 7 or 8) and my parents and the other townspeople laughed and drank and had a great time.

 

The kids did have wine sips if they wanted them, but we really didn't like the stuff. Beer was even worse! :D We were given grenadine and seltzer in tall glasses and loved it.

 

As an adult I don't drink more than a dozen times a year and neither do my 3 siblings. Alcohol wasn't a taboo thing so it didn't attract us at all.

[GPN]

It is not anybody's business (except the bartender/owner's) but the parents and the child. The problem with the world today is some people's beliefs that they have that right to dictate what is morally right or proper for others. Besides, taking a child into a bar, and having a drink (without making a big deal about it) normalizes it and shows the child that it isn't a big deal. Chnaces are, the kid was probably thinking "when can I get out of here"

[iancal]

I have no issue, in fact it is not uncommon in some parts of the world that we have visited.

[Toad]

I try to not offend and take no offence, when I cruise.

 

Wonderful quote and could be used for so many threads ie. smoking, dress code, kids etc etc

[hammybee]

I was reading the responses and came across your comment. I was raised in France (military brat) and it was the custom for entire families to go to the neighborhood bar a couple of times a week. The kids hung out together (I was about 7 or 8) and my parents and the other townspeople laughed and drank and had a great time.

 

This is a custom in many places in Southern Europe. For the most part, when families gather at or near a bar thereis food involved and they are not doing so with the intent of getting drunk, to solve personal problems.

 

It different parts of the world, when adults gather at a bar, the intent for many, ( not all) is to get buzzed/tipsy/ drunk/hammered. The last thing they want is to have is someone's kid on the stool, next to them.

[boscobeans]

Diference in generations..I guess.

 

Back when I was a kid (early 1950s) things seemed to be different.

 

The ubiquitous consumption of bottled spring water or other soft drinks, donuts and coffee, big macs or a bagel and cream cheese while driving or walking around town was not the norm. If you got thirsty or hungry on a trip or a walk you stopped and went to a diner, a soda fountain or got a bottle of Coke from a vending machine while you gassed up.

 

After 12 O'Clock Mass on Sunday a walk to the local bakery for fresh rolls or crumb buns and maybe then a short stop at the corner watering hole was not that uncommon.

 

My Dad would have a beer and talk about the Brooklyn Dodgers or taxes and I would be treated to a bottle of Seven-Up.

 

I learned a lot from those visits;

 

Adults drank alcohol socially.

Kids drank Seven-Up.

Adults tolerated kids if they were behaved.

Smoked eel tasted pretty good.

 

There was and still is a time and a place to do things and when you do those things you should do them in moderation and with respect for the people around you.

[Stevesan]

I was reading the responses and came across your comment. I was raised in France (military brat) and it was the custom for entire families to go to the neighborhood bar a couple of times a week. The kids hung out together (I was about 7 or 8) and my parents and the other townspeople laughed and drank and had a great time.

 

The kids did have wine sips if they wanted them, but we really didn't like the stuff. Beer was even worse! :D We were given grenadine and seltzer in tall glasses and loved it.

 

As an adult I don't drink more than a dozen times a year and neither do my 3 siblings. Alcohol wasn't a taboo thing so it didn't attract us at all.

 

I always kept a bottle of grenadine and a jar of maraschino cherries in the cabinet when our daughter and then our grandson were kids. They and their friends preferred that to sodas.

 

the grenadine and seltzer mix is called:

For the girls - a Shirley Temple

And the boys - a Roy Rogers

[Odd Ball]

Putting aside whether or not a child sitting at a bar is going to lead to problems down the road, there is one overwhelming reason why I chose to not put my child at or in a bar. I view it as an adult enviornment. I made the decision to not offend others, most of whom visit a bar for an adult enviornment.

 

At the same time, I do not impose myself on CLub HAL, although at times it's been tempting.:)

 

 

Well said.

 

It is not anybody's business (except the bartender/owner's) but the parents and the child. The problem with the world today is some people's beliefs that they have that right to dictate what is morally right or proper for others. Besides, taking a child into a bar, and having a drink (without making a big deal about it) normalizes it and shows the child that it isn't a big deal. Chnaces are, the kid was probably thinking "when can I get out of here"

 

I see this entirely different and cannot agree with this.

The problem with the world today is that people think nothing applies when it come to them. Many feel they are entitled to do whatever they please. Bringing a kid into an adult environment shows no respect for others.

[Cruising-along]

 

 

 

I see this entirely different and cannot agree with this.

 

The problem with the world today is that people think nothing applies when it come to them. Many feel they are entitled to do whatever they please. Bringing a kid into an adult environment shows no respect for others.

 

I totally agree. I'm not judging whether or not it is morally right, I'm looking at it from the standpoint of someone who would not be comfortable with children in an adult environment. Sure it's done all the time in other countries, and when there I would respect their country's ways. Heck, when we were in Paris the owners of an establishment had their large French poodle sitting at the bar. ;)

[GPN]

You know I wasn't addressing whether a kid belongs in an adult environment. I know it would be uncomfortable for some to carry on "adult" conversations when there are kids present, and I respect that. My response was directed more at the original poster, who seemed to take offense of someone bringing a child into an establishment where alcohol was served. That, in my opinion, is someone trying to impose their beliefs on me, which I don;t agree with.

[RuthC]

My response was directed more at the original poster, who seemed to take offense of someone bringing a child into an establishment where alcohol was served.

That isn't what I took the OP's point to be. I believe she was commenting on the child sitting at the bar, as opposed to being in the lounge at all. I continue to be surprised that some posters don't see a difference between the two.

[kakalina]

That isn't what I took the OP's point to be. I believe she was commenting on the child sitting at the bar, as opposed to being in the lounge at all. I continue to be surprised that some posters don't see a difference between the two.

 

Thanks Ruthless, I wasn't going to explain myself yet again; I appreciate your input. I didn't think it was that touchy a subject; who knew :confused:

[jhannah]

Ya' never know what will trigger folks, do ya'? It's been an interesting discussion, though.

[fitty]

I have traveled extensively and find that children who are well behaved in any setting are a joy to be around. Parents who teach their children proper behavior are to be congratulated. Morals don't enter into this, it is a matter of families being together and sharing experiences, any experiences. My granddaughter is a delight and can go anywhere with us and know what is expected of her whether we are drinking, eating, swimming, dancing, or going to church, she knows what is appropriate. I think sometimes people worry too much about what others are doing and forgetting to enjoy what they are doing.