Modern Day Mutiny?

[PescadoAmarillo]

http://www.cruisecritic.com/features/articles.cfm?ID=591

 

Did I miss mention of this on the Princess board when it was first posted 4 days ago? USA Today is actually soliciting input from anyone affected.

 

http://blogs.usatoday.com/cruiselog/2007/12/passengers-muti.html

[Druke I]

I didn't see it on the Princess Forum, but it was listed on the Cruise Critic Home Page yesterday, and I believe it is now back on the Asia Boards.

 

Had I been the Captain, I do believe I would had had the fellow who attempted to gain access to the Bridge confined to his quarters, and put off the ship at the next port.

[spongerob]

That's very interesting. Thanks for the link. I think it's a good example of not being able to please everyone, but good communication at the start might have lessened some of the more unpleasant aspects of the story.

[bdjam]

I have a difficult time putting stock in anything Spencer Brown writes - and I agree with Michael - the passeger with the maps is lucky he wasn't put off the ship.

While communication does make a difference, I wonder how many passengers who "muntiny" (this isn't the first time this sort of thing has happened) are really qualified to make decisions as to the safety of the ship and all aboard.

[dforeigner]

I do not remember reading this on a thread. The original editor's letter came out several weeks ago. This is an update to the original article:

 

"Last Updated: 12/04/07"

[rdsqrl]

As I was reading Spencer Brown's description of events, all I could think was how bloody ticked off I would have been as a passenger on that cruise -- NOT with the Captain and the crew, but with the other "mutinous" passengers, who in taking over the theatre's stage and holding shouting matches with the Captain were disrupting my peaceful enjoyment of the ship. To me that makes the muntineers the real villains of the piece -- if accounts are accurate, these people were just disrupting everyone else's hard-earned vacation with their immature behaviour, and that's inexcusable.

And, hello, you cruise in typhoon season, you probably should expect -- wait for it -- typhoons. Just sayin'

[derf5585]

Here is another way to start a mutiny.

 

On your cruise find out by asking everyone what they paid for their cruise and post the results. That way one really finds out if they did get the best deal.

[Davey Interweb]

What really would have been fun to watch would be the Chinese police hauling passengers away if they had gone through with their ridiculous plans for a "sit-in" at disembarkation. That alone would have made up for the missed ports, for me at least.

[Pam in CA]

What really would have been fun to watch would be the Chinese police hauling passengers away if they had gone through with their ridiculous plans for a "sit-in" at disembarkation. That alone would have made up for the missed ports, for me at least.

I agree. Having recently been to China, that would have been really, really fun to watch. The Chinese get things done because they don't have red tape nor do they have a legal system that's remotely like ours. Anyway, here's what I posted on that board:

 

There's no way to predict that a typhoon, or typhoons will affect a cruise, even if it's typhoon season. People cruising the Caribbean in August, September and October take that into consideration. Should the cruiselines stop cruising the Caribbean "just in case" there's a hurricane or typhoon? Should passengers do their research and know that they're cruising during a hurricane or typhoon season? I don't think so for the former and think so for the latter. On our Golden cruise last February, it was too cold to even be in the covered pool area. The CD planned very few activities so that people milled around looking for something to do. Should we have been compensated because it was cold out and there was nothing to do? Ports are missed all the time due to weather, including ports in a row.

 

I'd be interested in knowing who the CD was on this cruise. A good CD can make all the difference. This is where I feel that a creative and properly trained CD (rather than one who can tell jokes, sing a song or put on a good morning show -- they're generally useless when it comes to really planning activities IMHO) can put together activities that will appeal to the passengers and keep them occupied.

 

Yes, I think Princess should have done more for the passengers right off the bat but that's where a good CD comes in. I've been on cruises with lots of sea days and have seen the difference. It doesn't take a huge budget -- just some creativity.

[caribill]

I was on a Princess cruise last year which had to miss a port. The Cruise Staff quickly issued a new schedule for the day which included all the types of activities.

 

The cruise staff was very active with the passengers that day, even though some on the staff (as well as some of the shops' personnel) had partied almost all night because they "knew" they would have no assignments that day.

[kayteeyvr]

I didn't see a thread about this, but Spencer-Brown documented it in her virtual cruise which was highlighted on the CC homepage. Although it seemed to me that it wasn't anyone's fault that this happened, much of the cruise sounded bleak, particularly for those who had planned a trip of a lifetime. I think Princess did a good thing by offering money and a discount on a future cruise.

[bdjam]

much of the cruise sounded bleak, particularly for those who had planned a trip of a lifetime.

This brings up a good point - any professional publication regarding cruising that I've read always points out that if going to a particular port means it's a "trip of a lifetime" its best to go to that place and stay there for a few days. Because a ship can always end up diverted somewhere else, it's not worth the risk for those once in a lifetime experiences.

[billie5]

Does anyone know who the captain was?

 

There was a similar situation with the Sea Princess last year on a much simpler cruise, a 14 day circuit of the Caribbean. In all, 4 ports were missed, but what caused the uprising was that there was no obvious bad weather: no real storm, no obvious heavy rain, just somewhat higher than usual seas, and in each of the missed ports other cruise ships were docking. To make matters worse, the captain was the same one who was captain when a Princess ship hit the dock in Canada and also was captain when a Princess ship hit a reef near a Greek Island. Needless to say, his caution was attributed to fear based on his previous accidents, and several hundred passengers -- 300 if I remember correctly -- demanded unsuccessfully meetings with the captain, who for all practical purposes remained incommunicado.

 

I was on the immediately following cruise, and we all held our breaths at each port, but we managed to make them all. Ironically, when I took a cab ride at one of the ports (after a rough tender trip) the taxi driver volunteered without any prompting from us that he had never seen a cruise ship at anchor so far out from the port!

 

Bill

[west coast cruiser]

I was on the cruise that was mentioned. It was a very frustrating experience to have missed all of the ports when we saw other ships in port. Because the cruise was meant to be port intensive there were no special activities or speakers planned. The ship was full and you couldn't find a deck chair (they were all being "saved") anywhere. It was the first time in all of my cruising that I couldn't wait to get off the ship. People were furious. Nick Nash was the captain. I goton cruise critic from the ship and found out his nickname is "Crash Nash". They gave us a $150.-- credit for missing all of the ports.

WCC

[whale-watcher]

This brings up a good point - any professional publication regarding cruising that I've read always points out that if going to a particular port means it's a "trip of a lifetime" its best to go to that place and stay there for a few days. Because a ship can always end up diverted somewhere else, it's not worth the risk for those once in a lifetime experiences.

true...but usually the disappointment of missing a port is quickly a thing of the past...you have a relaxing sea day, the ship docks at it's next destination, and life is good again....but missing that many stops on a por-intensive cruise so far away from home would be a bummer...We always make the best of whatever our vacation brings, but die-hard optimists such as my DW would have a hard time staying upbeat for that long.

[spongerob]

Fair enough, but weather and other situations that might cause ports to be missed (strikes, political unrest, you name it) are happenstance. I support compensation in cases of incompetence and neglect, but when it's just bad luck, I think people need to accept the fact that it just wasn't going to be their day and move on as best they can (yes, there I go being a heartless bastard again...:o ).

 

I see some value in providing the credit as a goodwill gesture and think it's nice that it was done in this case, but I don't think such things should be expected as a rule and definitely should not be given in response to passengers who are getting ugly.

[westwind6371]

I find it absolutely amazing to hear passengers who are suddenly experts substituding their judgement for that of a Captain with years of training and thousand of hours managing the operation of a huge cruise ship. Many have never even captained a rowboat, let alone a vessel the size of a Princess cruise ship.

 

The fact that some ship arrived before and docked or afterward has no bearing on what was going on at the time a captain makes a decision to go or not to go. Quotes like "The weather didn't seem that bad to us" show an amazing lack of understanding the operation of a large ship. Tides can and do change in as little as 1/2 hour, makeing the combination of wind and current unsafe at a location that was just fine a short time earlier. Tides and weather are constantly changing and different ships react differently to certain situations. That is the reason that cruise ship captains are paid as well as they are, to make Safe, operationally feasable decisions.

 

As a former airline pilot, I understand the problems. One aircraft may make an approach in bad weather and the next 10, miss the approach. Who is the best captain? The one that made it or the 10 that "missed" Chances are they are all good, the situation just changed because of the elements or the capibilities of the craft.

 

I have sailed with Captain Nash, and he is a fine, competent captain, if he were not, Princess would have fired him long ago. They will not risk a ship or passengers safety for any reason. (No, I am not related or do I know him personally, I just respect the position he holds, and hate to see a good person be smeared by worthless gossip!)

 

Enough of this rant, but just remember, just because it "Looks" safe to the untrained eye, it may not be to the professional. If you do not trust the abilities of the captain, you are a damn fool to board the boat in the first place.

 

Fair winds

Dave

[bacci]

Two years ago, October 2004 I was booked to sail on my first ever Princess Cruise. I spent many hours researching my ports of call, and booked some amazing excursions.We were to sail to the Western Caribbean.Hurricane Wilma was approaching ,I live in South Fl and Princess was set to sell on the Sunday.Nobody took the storm seriously and the cruise was on.The storm hit Fl.on the Monday morning and the news back home was not good. Well we never got to the Western Caribbean, but everyday we were told where we will be going. Our cruise was nicknamed the cruise with nowhere to go.Honestly we still had a great time, we did the Eastern Caribbean,and to add insult to injury on the last day ,our only scheduled stop that we were able to do,[Princess Cays] had to be cancelled because of bad weather.My husband and I made the most of it, we actually had a great time other than worries about the family back home.The pursers desk allowed people onboard who had family back home in the hurricane make as many phone call as needed with no charge.There were some passengers who moaned and complained, but what did they want Princess to do? We were never offered any credit, and Icertainly didn't expect any. We sailed in hurricane seasons and O well things happen.I have since sailed 3 times with Princess and have loved them all.

[Colo Cruiser]

I agree boot them off at the nearest port/police. :eek:

[Pam in CA]

I was on the cruise that was mentioned. It was a very frustrating experience to have missed all of the ports when we saw other ships in port.

What were the lengths and drafts of the ships already in port? What were the wind, sea and tide conditions when they got into port? What will be the conditions at the time of their scheduled departure? How can you be frustrated when you most likely don't know that? Do you know more about docking a ship than the captain? Do you have more wind / weather / sea condition information than he does?

 

I get frustrated at the people who don't know what the heck they're talking about and make assumptions based on absolutely nothing. Once, on the Royal Princess, we were scheduled to dock in Rhodes and arrived at the entrance to the harbor pretty much on time. However, it was so windy that you could barely stand up straight and there were wind warnings on all of the doors (with most of them locked.) The captain announced that we would not be able to make it into port and that the two ships already there had been stuck for two days. You wouldn't believe the griping! It was unbelieveable. You'd think that people would prefer to miss the port and not be put into a dangerous situation rather than possibly miss Ephesus and Istanbul?

 

As for the lack of activities, who was the CD? That is THEIR responsibility and they should have had plans in place for lots of activities. You can bet they had at least several hours' notice. Unfortunately, that is Princess' fault and the CD should be either fired or demoted. It sounds to me like the CD ruined the cruise, not the lack of ports.

[Pam in CA]

Two years ago, October 2004 I was booked to sail on my first ever Princess Cruise. I spent many hours researching my ports of call, and booked some amazing excursions.We were to sail to the Western Caribbean.Hurricane Wilma was approaching ,I live in South Fl and Princess was set to sell on the Sunday.Nobody took the storm seriously and the cruise was on.The storm hit Fl.on the Monday morning and the news back home was not good. Well we never got to the Western Caribbean, but everyday we were told where we will be going. Our cruise was nicknamed the cruise with nowhere to go.Honestly we still had a great time, we did the Eastern Caribbean,and to add insult to injury on the last day ,our only scheduled stop that we were able to do,[Princess Cays] had to be cancelled because of bad weather.My husband and I made the most of it, we actually had a great time other than worries about the family back home.The pursers desk allowed people onboard who had family back home in the hurricane make as many phone call as needed with no charge.There were some passengers who moaned and complained, but what did they want Princess to do? We were never offered any credit, and Icertainly didn't expect any. We sailed in hurricane seasons and O well things happen.I have since sailed 3 times with Princess and have loved them all.

Good attitude. This is why it's so inexpensive to cruise during hurricane season and anyone who takes advantage of these great rates and then whines about a changed itinerary or missed ports doesn't deserve any money back or credit. They rolled the dice and got what they paid for.

[bdjam]

true...but usually the disappointment of missing a port is quickly a thing of the past...you have a relaxing sea day, the ship docks at it's next destination, and life is good again....but missing that many stops on a por-intensive cruise so far away from home would be a bummer...We always make the best of whatever our vacation brings, but die-hard optimists such as my DW would have a hard time staying upbeat for that long.

Bummer or not, the advice from the professional cruise writers still stands true - if you're depending on a cruise ship to take to you a "once in a lifetime" destination, you may miss your once in a life time chance and another form of vacation might be more appropriate. This particular situation supports their viewpoint. People should look at a cruise vacation as just that - a "cruise" vacation where the ship plays the primary role. It's great to be able to see a number of destinations in one vacation via ship - the point is one can't depend on it and there's nothing that can be done to change that, including causing havoc when on board.

[GBeret]

As I was reading Spencer Brown's description of events, all I could think was how bloody ticked off I would have been as a passenger on that cruise -- NOT with the Captain and the crew, but with the other "mutinous" passengers, who in taking over the theatre's stage and holding shouting matches with the Captain were disrupting my peaceful enjoyment of the ship. To me that makes the muntineers the real villains of the piece -- if accounts are accurate, these people were just disrupting everyone else's hard-earned vacation with their immature behaviour, and that's inexcusable.

And, hello, you cruise in typhoon season, you probably should expect -- wait for it -- typhoons. Just sayin'

 

I have to agree with your comments on this incident 100%! ;)

 

The majority of Cruises that we have been on (All except one on Princess.) have missed one port of call for various reasons, usually weather related and/or unsafe tendering conditions. Decisions made by professionals, for our safety.

 

Sure we were disappointed, as in a couple of cases (Dutch Harbor and the Azores.) it's doubtful we'll ever return to these places.

 

When one sails on a ship, in the open Oceans of the world, one is subject to the weather and other natural occurring factors of Mother Nature's inventory of tricks!

 

I'll stick with the decisions of the professionals, not with the whims of a bunch of disgruntled passengers! :eek:

[Smiles3usa]

People should look at a cruise vacation as just that - a "cruise" vacation where the ship plays the primary role.

 

The cruise lines don't see it as quoted above. Princess' "holy land" cruises, which included stops in Egypt and Israeli ports, were priced almost double the amount of similar length Med cruises. Why? Because folks were willing to pay higher prices for some ports and Princess was willing to take as much as the market would bear. It is, to me, the height of hypocrisy to charge more for cruises that include certain ports and say too bad when/if all such ports are missed (for whatever reason). Yeah, I know you pay your money and take your chances. To me, however, it seems fair that some type of compensation should be paid to the consumer when the product promised is no where close to the ultimate product delivered. Missing 4 out of 9 exotic ports, I believe, falls into that category. % off a future cruise might give folks the opportunity to see the ports missed.

[bdjam]

The cruise lines don't see it as quoted above. Princess' "holy land" cruises, which included stops in Egypt and Israeli ports, were priced almost double the amount of similar length Med cruises. Why? Because folks were willing to pay higher prices for some ports and Princess was willing to take as much as the market would bear. It is, to me, the height of hypocrisy to charge more for cruises that include certain ports and say too bad when/if all such ports are missed (for whatever reason). Yeah, I know you pay your money and take your chances. To me, however, it seems fair that some type of compensation should be paid to the consumer when the product promised is no where close to the ultimate product delivered. Missing 4 out of 9 exotic ports, I believe, falls into that category. % off a future cruise might give folks the opportunity to see the ports missed.

Right - the cruise lines aren't going to market with tag lines that say "you might miss some ports." Common sense dictates that ships can't always make their call and that fact should be considered when choosing a "lifetime opportunity" at the mercy of a ship's schedule. Again, this "mutiny" proves the point and again, all savvy travel writers seem to point it out. It's unfortunate that passengers don't believe the obvious.

What people don't seem to be thankful for is the fact that ANY compensation is a goodwill gift from the cruise line, not a requirement of them.

As for Holy Land cruises having higher prices, perhaps its because the smaller ships in Princess' fleet all demand higher per diems than the other ships - and less traveled ports of call are more expensive for them to visit.