Poll: HAL Smoking Survey

[Mary Ellen]

I agree that HAL could quickly become known as the smokers' cruise line if they don't follow the lead of other lines and do so in the near future. That definitely will lead to a mass exodus faster than any other single or aggregate thing HAL chooses to do or not do.

 

The effects of Formal vs. no formal; AYWD vs. Traditional, cutbacks in any and all departments will pale to an influx of smokers chasing away many non-smokers.

I totally agree! Unless HAL adopts policies along the lines of the other cruise lines, that is what I would expect to occur.

 

I 'think' it was Brian that had a thread several years ago, that asked 'What would make you stop cruising on HAL?' At that time I didn't know. HAL becoming the smokers' cruise line would do it in a heartbeat.

[RevNeal]

I like the theory and wish it were realistic, but don't believe it is.

 

In summary, the theory says that banning smoking will result in lower revenue for HAL, caused by discounted fares to attract replacements for smokers. I don't think that this will happen.

 

It's the law of supply-and-demand in simple Economics, not just a theory. And, it's exceedingly realistic. We've seen it in action many times in this industry, as well as in countless others. The Bean Counters depend upon it, and the Line makes money with it every time there are cabins that need to be sold. After 911, when the numbers of passengers dropped due to fear, etc., the Lines cut their prices to attract more passengers. That lasted quite a while -- several years -- and the line survived and rebuilt its passenger base to levels far beyond what they were prior to 911.

 

In a case like this, we're not talking about a deep cut in prices for a very long period of time. The loss in passenger-base would be diluted across the entire fleet, with a corresponding moderation of the amount and duration of the discount. In other words, they won't have to cut the price by 39% (they're not going to let people sail or free, so we're not talking a 100+% discount) to attract more passengers to fill those cabins. Nor will it have to be for very long to produce the effect -- i.e., an increase in the non-smoking passenger base.

 

This is not theory ... it's Cruise Line SOP. The Line does this for many sailings already in order to fill cabins that would be sailing empty. That's what the "Flash Sales" are. The Line knows what it's price-point-to-break-even is, and they can afford to discount to that point in order to fill any remaining empty cabins for a revenue neutral standing. They do it all the time across the fleet when a ship gets close to sailing but there are remaining cabins un-sold. This is a slightly larger and more uniform prospect, true, but it won't take much in the way of discounting or time to fill those empty cabins. Combine that with the advertising of a "smokeless fleet," which will produce an automatic increase in the non-smoker cruiser base without any discount at all, and the result will be full ships with only minor discounting and "last-minute" flash-sales ... and not for a very long period of time, either. The situation will probably not last any longer than a single Business Quarter or, at most, two.

[RevNeal]

Reverend, while I agree that HAL would deeply discount cabins in order not to sail empty, I don't think that would help onboard revenue, unless the people who snap up the cheap cabins are prepared to spend the same onboard. I've said before, these boards are filled with people who are looking for ways to have a cheap cruise. There's even a thread going in Ask a cruise question about being a "tightwad" cruiser". Filling their cabins is one thing. On board revenue will be completely another, and it will be a wait and see game to see if on board spending levels remain the same, increase or decrease.

 

Interesting point, and all the more reason why the Line will discount cabins in order to move them rather than let them sail empty and try to stick it to those who remain.

 

Over a year ago we were informed (by those in the industry) that passengers who are new to cruising spend more money aboard ship than those who are long-time Mariners. We were told that, while the Line loves their multi-repeat Mariners, they make a larger profit per-passenger in on-board sales when a larger number of those passengers are new to cruising or at least new to HAL. Hence, the Line would always be seeking new passengers to fill its cabins, and we long-time/multi-cruise Mariners would just have to accept that the Line really doesn't care that much for us anymore. Hence, the reason for the AYW Dining tests, the reduction in Dress Code Standards, the production of larger and larger ships over the often-stated wishes of Mariners for smaller vessels, etc. The Line wanted more and more passengers, and trusted that they could retain a large enough percentage of their long-time/multi-cruise Mariners to survive. They were right.

 

This is the same thing here ... it's just a different topic. Before, when it was Dress Codes or Traditional Dining, we Traditionalists were told "gut it up and go with the flow ... you're not important enough for your wishes to really matter. And, if you take your toys and leave you'll be replaced with people who are better revenue sources for the Line." Some of those who said that kind of thing to Traditionalists are now the ones in the target-sights. I'm sorry for that, but that's just the way it is. I'm not going to say "gut it up." I hope the Line doesn't institute a smoking Ban. But, if they do, and if passengers leave as a result, the Line will replace those passengers in rather short order with new passengers who will spend money aboard ship and, after having been attracted to cruising, will continue to cruise even after the discount that lured them to the Line is gone. We've seen this before ... we'll see it again.

[usha]

Sorry. Your information is not correct. It's not true. See http://www.snopes.com/crime/clever/cigarson.asp

 

Robin

:o OOPS! Sorry, I just cut & pasted the cigar arsonist story from a Joke site. I didn't check Snopes to see if it was really fact or fiction; I just thought it was kind of funny.

[marle7]

Interesting point, and all the more reason why the Line will discount cabins in order to move them rather than let them sail empty and try to stick it to those who remain.

 

Over a year ago we were informed (by those in the industry) that passengers who are new to cruising spend more money aboard ship than those who are long-time Mariners. We were told that, while the Line loves their multi-repeat Mariners, they make a larger profit per-passenger in on-board sales when a larger number of those passengers are new to cruising or at least new to HAL. Hence, the Line would always be seeking new passengers to fill its cabins, and we long-time/multi-cruise Mariners would just have to accept that the Line really doesn't care that much for us anymore. Hence, the reason for the AYW Dining tests, the reduction in Dress Code Standards, the production of larger and larger ships over the often-stated wishes of Mariners for smaller vessels, etc. The Line wanted more and more passengers, and trusted that they could retain a large enough percentage of their long-time/multi-cruise Mariners to survive. They were right.

 

This is the same thing here ... it's just a different topic. Before, when it was Dress Codes or Traditional Dining, we Traditionalists were told "gut it up and go with the flow ... you're not important enough for your wishes to really matter. And, if you take your toys and leave you'll be replaced with people who are better revenue sources for the Line." Some of those who said that kind of thing to Traditionalists are now the ones in the target-sights. I'm sorry for that, but that's just the way it is. I'm not going to say "gut it up." I hope the Line doesn't institute a smoking Ban. But, if they do, and if passengers leave as a result, the Line will replace those passengers in rather short order with new passengers who will spend money aboard ship and, after having been attracted to cruising, will continue to cruise even after the discount that lured them to the Line is gone. We've seen this before ... we'll see it again.

 

I think you're probably right. Which doesn't say much for being loyal to one brand, I guess.

[KLLund]

:o OOPS! Sorry, I just cut & pasted the cigar arsonist story from a Joke site. I didn't check Snopes to see if it was really fact or fiction; I just thought it was kind of funny.

 

 

I know I will be laughing about it all day... Thanks

[RevNeal]

I think you're probably right. Which doesn't say much for being loyal to one brand, I guess.

 

Correct. It's been among the motivating factors that has caused me to consider Cunard, Celebrity, Crystal, and a few other Lines for future cruises. My plan is to do a crossing on the QM2, something on the QV, and something on the new QE.

[Copper10-8]

Speaking about bogus stories, ever seen this one?

[CruiserGreg]

Interesting post on a smoking thread over on the Princess board.........

 

"You know, I wish more people read these boards. Most of the smokers I know are polite people; they don't go around deliberately blowing smoke in people's faces. My guess is that most smokers believe they are doing everyone a favor by smoking out on their balcony (in the open air) rather than in their cabin. After all, it is pretty common to send smokers outside (and prohibit smoking inside). I have a feeling that if your deck neighbor smokes, you could probably work out a compromise with them as to when they smoke on their deck. Of course that would mean approaching them with courtesy, not treating them like they are some low-life scum who want to kill you. A little civility on both sides is called for, I think."

 

I think this hits the spot.

[JimVrhovac]

We do that every trip with our next door cabins and only once have we had a problem. They have never asked to work out a schedule or became irrate.

It seems that more noise is made on the boards than in real life.

 

Ruth & jim

[usha]

It seems that more noise is made on the boards than in real life.

 

Ruth & jim

Yes, in real life, most non-smokers just suffer in silence.:(

[Mary Ellen]

We do that every trip with our next door cabins and only once have we had a problem. They have never asked to work out a schedule or became irrate.

It seems that more noise is made on the boards than in real life.

Yes, In real life I would never ask someone to stop smoking on their verandah - or work out a 'schedule'. :rolleyes: We just don't book verandahs anymore as they are a waste of our $$$ as long as smoking is allowed on them.

 

We very much now enjoy being able to sit out on our balconies when we're at WDW. ALL Disney hotels are now non-smoking - inside and on the balconies. We figure if Disney has gone non-smoking (with all of their worldwide guests), the writing is on the wall for cruise lines.... ;)

[RevNeal]

We do that every trip with our next door cabins and only once have we had a problem. They have never asked to work out a schedule or became irrate.

It seems that more noise is made on the boards than in real life.

 

Jim, I'm one of those who doesn't complain and doesn't say anything to anybody else. I don't wave my hand before my face or anything like that. If I discover I'm having a reaction to smoke, I get up and leave. Even if I'm in a non-smoking area and someone is smoking there. It doesn't happen often that I have a problem, but when it has happened I've just gotten up and left. Life is too short, and I enjoy it too much, to clutter it up with hurt feelings and conflict. Ironic, given the kind of scuffles I've been in on this board. But, that's the truth in real-life. So ... just because you don't hear anything, that doesn't mean that others are not being impacted.

[cruz chic]

Jim, I'm one of those who doesn't complain and doesn't say anything to anybody else. I don't wave my hand before my face or anything like that. If I discover I'm having a reaction to smoke, I get up and leave. Even if I'm in a non-smoking area and someone is smoking there. It doesn't happen often that I have a problem, but when it has happened I've just gotten up and left. Life is too short, and I enjoy it too much, to clutter it up with hurt feelings and conflict. Ironic, given the kind of scuffles I've been in on this board. But, that's the truth in real-life. So ... just because you don't hear anything, that doesn't mean that others are not being impacted.

So true!

[sail7seas]

Exactly, Greg. Just because no one has spoken up does not mean that no one is being bothered by the smoke.

 

We, like you, are not usually bothered by it but now and then I am. We enjoy sitting at the bar rather than the tables if it is just the two of us. We know that is a smoking section. If someone's smoke bothers me, I don't say anything. I simply leave.

 

[usha]

Yup, even if the non-smokers around you aren't making a stink, it still stinks.:(

[Harry1954]

Exactly, Greg. Just because no one has spoken up does not mean that no one is being bothered by the smoke.

 

We, like you, are not usually bothered by it but now and then I am. We enjoy sitting at the bar rather than the tables if it is just the two of us. We know that is a smoking section. If someone's smoke bothers me, I don't say anything. I simply leave.

That is what we do - just leave. However, on the verandah we act differently. We enjoy sitting there and smelling the fresh sea air. On most recent cruise our next door neighbor was smoking a cigar one day when we were sitting there. I asked my wife if that was cigar smoke and she affirmed it was - he must have heard me as he was polite enough to get up and go inside, relieving us of a horrible experience as it would have become that day.

He was gracious - as we are in a bar setting. However there are not always gracious people in the world - there are those who feel they have the right to pursue their own ends irrespective of the effects on others - they are the ones that ruin what is a reasonably tolerable situation regarding smoking for everyone else IMHO - and they will not go away or change, ever.

 

harry

[RevNeal]

USha, Yes we can if you don't stay out of the smoking area.

 

Gayle, if I'm in the smoking area I have to either accept it or leave. I don't normally have too much of a problem, but sometimes I do ... and, when I do, I leave.

 

My point is that I've done the same thing when someone has lit up in a non-smoking area or on the verandah up-wind from ours. I don't whine or complain. I don't wave my hand in front of my face. I avoid a confrontation and, if I have to, I leave. And, I'm not alone in that.

[cccole]

I just answered my three questions on the poll so would like to give MY opinion.

 

We are not smokers but there are lots of people who post on these boards who smoke, or their traveling companions smoke, who and I think would be an asset to any cruise. And there are some non-smokers in the same category. And then there are the "obnoxious" in both categories.

 

I don't choose my friends on the basis of their smoking habits and do not choose a cruise or other vacation on whether smoking is permited. I think it is sad when a certain segment of society is eliminated because of a habit you don't like.

 

Instead of banning everyone who would like to smoke I hope that HAL makes sure that EVERYONE is accommodated on their ships.

 

By-the-way - Have you ever sat on your balcony when leaving a port in Jamaica?

 

Cherie

[fireman845]

Gayle, if I'm in the smoking area I have to either accept it or leave. I don't normally have too much of a problem, but sometimes I do ... and, when I do, I leave.

 

My point is that I've done the same thing when someone has lit up in a non-smoking area or on the verandah up-wind from ours. I don't whine or complain. I don't wave my hand in front of my face. I avoid a confrontation and, if I have to, I leave. And, I'm not alone in that.

 

 

Definently NOT alone in that... Much easier to just walk away... By the way Greg your post on this particular thread have been very insightful for me... (Also you are not always that bombastic :) Thank you..

[GayleArc]

Greg, I know you are very respectful of smokers and just leave if it annoys you. My point is that with 4 smoking tables in the Ocean Bar (on the Noordam) which we get ther very early to get one, why do non smokers insist

on sitting there and then complaining. Can't we just have aour small spaces, and you can have the other 98% of the ship. Gayle

[sail7seas]

I agree with you, Gayle, and have commented that the rare time when smoking at the bar (which is smoking section) bothers us, we leave. We don't make a speech or wave our hands; we leave.

 

You know we enjoy being at the bar when it is two (or 3 :) ) of us, we enjoy being at the bar. We are aware that is the smoking section.

 

 

 

[fireman845]

I agree with you, Gayle, and have commented that the rare time when smoking at the bar (which is smoking section) bothers us, we leave. We don't make a speech or wave our hands; we leave.

 

You know we enjoy being at the bar when it is two (or 3 :) ) of us, we enjoy being at the bar. We are aware that is the smoking section.

 

 

 

 

 

S7S is there any non-smoking bars onboard DAM Ships

[sail7seas]

Explorers Lounge, Lido (Dolphin Bar), and maybe ?? Piano Bar

[GayleArc]

Yes, the piano bar is non smoking and also the Crows Nest (at least on the

Noordam). That is why the 4 smoking tables and bar in the Ocean Bar are so

important to smokers. We could not even smoke or get into the Oak Room one night on the Noordam as the were having Renewal of Vows there. Why?