Poll: HAL Smoking Survey

[cruz chic]

Take an HAL cruise. The poll is being distributed aboard the ships.

 

Didn't get the poll on the Maasdam in Apr.08

[twinkletoes4445]

I think it's all about compromise. After all, these are pretty big ships. We're non-smokers, and maybe we've been lucky, but we've never had an issue with smoke. Yes, the casino was smoky the night we were there, and we left. If I really wanted to gamble, HAL offers "smoke-free" casino times.

 

And we've never had an issue with smokers from other balconies. I'm sure others have, but we haven't. It's not like we sit on our balcony 24/7, so if a neighbor was out smoking, and it drifted our way, we'd probably just go inside for a bit, or go do something on the ship. I suppose if it was a real problem, I might say something to the neighbor, but again, we've not had a problem.

 

I do think it's unrealistic and unfair to expect all smoking on the ships to be banned. Again, I think it's about compromise. These are big ships and I think there's enough space for everyone. We just go with the flow. :)

[vbmom87]

I am personally quite surprised at the number of people who seem to smoke that frequent this board. Not one of friends (and we have a LOT of friends) or family members (I come from a big family) smoke. On the block I live on, there is only one smoker, my next door neighbor. This board is actually frightening me about my upcoming cruise. When we decided to take our first cruise, it just never even crossed my mind that smoking might be an issue. Then I started reading these boards and was shocked that there is no such thing as a non-smoking cabin. We almost cancelled our cruise because of it. The smoking issue will definitely be a deciding factor if we ever cruise again, or with which line.

[Jemima]

The percentage of smokers in this poll is much higher than what I've observed on HAL cruises.

[Davey Interweb]

I trust that HAL, a company desirous of not only holding onto past loyal customers (including ourselves) but wanting to increase their market share, realizes that smoking cruisers are a dwindling number (as more and more people quit smoking and fewer start the habit) and will come to the conclusion that Celebrity, Oceania, Azamara, Regent, and others have made the correct financial decision and HAL will not want to be left behind and known as "the smokers' cruise line" in the media and among cruisers.

 

I do believe there's a flaw in your logic, though. Certainly, the prevalence of smokers has been declining in North America but to a lesser degree throughout much of Europe, and the percentages are still very high throughout Asia -- particularly China. You mention HAL "wanting to increase their market share", and with the wheels coming off the US economy which markets do you think Holland America (read: Carnival) will look to exploit next?

 

I'm not sure you're as important to HAL as you'd like to believe.

[sail-a-bration]

Cigar smoke is much worse the smell of cigarettes, so to all who indulge please ask the people around you if they mind, or go outside on deck. I have had many cigarette people ask me if I mind before lighting, but rarely cigar smokers, they seem to believe there is some type of sophistication to it. In the 40's and 50's movies cigarette smoking was considered sophisticated and romantic if a gentleman lit your cigarette. In truth neither are sophisticated, but as I non-smoker I find cigarette smokers on cruise ships more polite.

[cruiseapril]

We did the written smoking survey on the Westerdam last month.

 

Except for the casino, the Westerdam, on this cruise, was relatively smoke-free. It was pleasant-the smoking policy must work because there were many people smoking.

 

One of our cruise group has serious asthma, so smoke is a factor for us. Many, many people have inherited asthma problems and we hope this is considered by those who discuss this issue. People with asthma certainly should be able to cruise. For us, smoking is a health issue and not a social or personal issue. It would help if folks could be scientific about smoking rather than defensive.

[RuthC]

I am personally quite surprised at the number of people who seem to smoke that frequent this board.

Right now the poll is showing about 27% of those answering as either a smoker, or traveling with a smoker. If one person in a couple smokes, and both answer the poll, there would be two "yes" answers to that question.

Since the American smoking population is in the vicinity of 25%, I don't find the poll results too different than the greater population.

What this poll doesn't ask---as the HAL poll doesn't also---is for identification of those who don't smoke, but don't mind that others do. The built-in bias in the HAL poll is the assumption that those who don't smoke want smoking banned. This is not necessarily the case.

[cruiseapril]

The above is a very important point. We don't think banning smoking is the answer. Having a smoking policy which works seems to be the answer. For instance, is it reasonable to suggest smoking on balconies on one side of the ship rather than both? There must be healthy compromises which work.

[RevNeal]

What this poll doesn't ask---as the HAL poll doesn't also---is for identification of those who don't smoke, but don't mind that others do. The built-in bias in the HAL poll is the assumption that those who don't smoke want smoking banned. This is not necessarily the case.

 

Correct ... which is one of the problems with the HAL poll. It is designed to illicit a particular response. It's similar to some of the polls that were conducted during the dining experimentation period aboard the Oosterdam. It's as if they were designed to generate the kind of response the Line wanted in order to justify their program.

[sail7seas]

The above is a very important point. We don't think banning smoking is the answer. Having a smoking policy which works seems to be the answer. For instance, is it reasonable to suggest smoking on balconies on one side of the ship rather than both? There must be healthy compromises which work.

 

 

I know that sounds reasonable on its surface but it really isn't. DH and I have sailed dozens and dozens of times in the same three or four cabins on port side of all HAL ships. Out of around 500 days on the ships, we have only been starboard 2 or 3 cruises and that is because no port suites were available. We obviously want to be in a port cabin.

 

If they were to assign port as the smoking side, it would take us away from the cabins we have always wanted and still want. I don't think it reasonable we have to give up our preference in order to not breath a neighbor's smoke. Do you?

[Jemima]

Non-smokers with non-smoking spouses/traveling companions would book cruises even if some thought the rules were more restrictive than needed. The poll seems fine as all HAL needs to know is the % who would still cruise.

[Susan-M]

. We obviously want to be in a port cabin.

 

 

Just curious as to why you have a preference for port side?

[JimVrhovac]

Willing to compromise as long as it does not inconvience me or cause me to do something I do not want to do.......

 

Somehow this does not meet the definition of compromise......

 

Ruth & Jim

[sail7seas]

Why do we always book port cabins:

 

I think it simply started as habit as our first few cabins happened to be port but now it's almost superstition for us. :D We almost always enjoy the view better in port but that is not always the case. The same ship can pull into the same port and one time be starboard to the dock and next time port so you can never be sure which view you'll have.

 

Jim....... Where did I say I was willing to compromise on this matter? I know this is not the most charitable or gracious position but it is hard to be agreeable about something that potentially and at times literally causes me extreme discomfort. I know most HAL smokers try to be accomodating and cooperative etc but most smokers truly, no matter how hard they try to understand, have the ability to know what it feels like, what it smells like, the extent of discomfort it can cause some people some of the time. They cannot know how it smells to someone who does not want to smell it. They cannot know how it feels to a person with asthma. It isn't they don't want to be considerate, the very thing they are doing makes it impossible for all smokers to always be unintrusive to the noses/sensitivities of others.

 

I don't mean to be critical; I don't mean to be judgmental; I am simply stating my personal experience.

 

So, no, I agree what I say/write here is not a compromise.

 

[CowPrincess]

If they were to assign port as the smoking side, it would take us away from the cabins we have always wanted and still want. I don't think it reasonable we have to give up our preference in order to not breath a neighbor's smoke. Do you?

 

Oh I'm SO going to get flamed. Ah well.....

 

It would be up to you whether or not you "gave up" your preferred cabins. It would, I guess, come down to whether "port" or "nonsmoking" was more important to you. This is the biggest problem (and it is NOT aimed at you, Sail7Seas) -- no one wants to find any kind of compromise. In another thread, it was suggested that the smoking area be the aft pool. Of course, a nonsmoker got very upset, saying SHE had the right to enjoy the aft pool, and couldn't if there were smokers there.

 

Smokers are not doing an illegal activity by smoking. We also (like nonsmokers) want to be able to enjoy our vacations. Part of that is the ability and locations to smoke. I've never seen a smoker walk into a non-smoking area and light up (NEVER, EVER) but I've certainly seen nonsmokers walk into a smoking area and start fake-coughing, waving their hand in front of their face, and complaining loudly about the cigarette smoke. My husband and I do our best to abide by the rules (as do most HAL pax, IMHO), and we simply want places that we can smoke.

 

If that comes at the cost of restrictions as to which side of the ship we can smoke on, or which cabin categories we are allowed, that's fine with us. And it would be nice if the nonsmokers recognized that while they perceive that nonsmokers are "making sacrifices", the smokers are making "sacrifices", too, in an effort to get along and not offend others.

[sail7seas]

I totally agree that smokers have ceded time and again. The absolute argument non-smokers have that is undeniable is that the non-smoker is not violating the smoker with an unpleasant physical environment. The hand wavers and nose wigglers are annoying and dramatic but the physical discomfort some non-smokers suffer is another story. I don't have asthma but certainly have seen what smoke does to people who do. Non-smokers are not causing smokers physical ailment........ :D perhaps some mental distress with theatrics but that can be laughed off.

All cruisers should be able to enjoy their vacation in a safe and healthy environment, don't you think? I don't know how HAL's smoking policy may or may not change but I certainly hope they do not become known as the Smokers' cruise line. If HAL were to inherit all of RCI and "X's" smokers that would stink......no pun intended. ;)

 

 

 

[RuthC]

Non-smokers with non-smoking spouses/traveling companions would book cruises even if some thought the rules were more restrictive than needed. The poll seems fine as all HAL needs to know is the % who would still cruise.

The HAL poll may seem fine to you, but it's failing to elicit all the points of view. There's a huge built-in bias.

As Greg says, it's skewed to back up a decision that's (apparently) already been made.

[LizB1]

The HAL poll may seem fine to you, but it's failing to elicit all the points of view. There's a huge built-in bias.

As Greg says, it's skewed to back up a decision that's (apparently) already been made.

 

Ruth,

 

I totally agree with you and felt this way when we had to fill out the HAL survey on our recent 24-day Noordam cruise.

[Kane]

The HAL poll may seem fine to you, but it's failing to elicit all the points of view. There's a huge built-in bias.

As Greg says, it's skewed to back up a decision that's (apparently) already been made.

 

It is possible that the "official" HAL poll may be a sham conducted with the intent of warning customers of possible upcoming policy changes.

 

This may be true but it also offers a mechanism for HAL to gather "last minute" information prior to making a decision that would be very hard to revoke.

 

Non-smokers with non-smoking spouses/traveling companions would book cruises even if some thought the rules were more restrictive than needed. The poll seems fine as all HAL needs to know is the % who would still cruise.

 

Or, more important, what percentage would not cruise HAL. Basically, what is the potential for loss of business. If this is the case, HAL does not need to know all the permutations and combinations, only the possible percentage of passengers that may be lost.

 

The business decision: Once passengers are lost, how much money needs to be spent on marketing to replace them? That's what makes this (unofficial) poll so startling ... a 25% potential loss of business is awful hard to try to overcome.

[kryos]

The HAL poll may seem fine to you, but it's failing to elicit all the points of view. There's a huge built-in bias.

As Greg says, it's skewed to back up a decision that's (apparently) already been made.

Exactly.

 

My guess is that in the next few weeks (maybe a month) we're gonna see a news release from HAL. There will be changes ... of that I have no doubt. How restrictive those changes will be is another question whose answer I honestly have no idea.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[sail-a-bration]

I understand s7s position, they like the port side, maybe the cruiseline could alternate the smoking cabins on every other deck. Therefore you could get your port and so could the smokers. The only time it would be a problem would be while the ship was in port, the smoke from one balcony could waft up to yours, but I do not think it would be overwhelming. Unless it was a stinky cigar:D sorry cigar smokers, just kidding you have some rights too.

[Jemima]

And they'd arrange the alternating so that Sail's portside suites were always non-smoking? She doesn't want just any deck. She wants a suite, possibly a specific suite and she wants it portside. Now I only book guarantees, don't worry about port or starboard, haven't complained about any cabin, but if only some were non-smoking my guarantee would have to be non-smoking.

What about the person booking the only penthouse? Which would that be? Need a handicap cabin and only one left...

Somehow this doesn't work.

[Susan-M]

Exactly.

 

My guess is that in the next few weeks (maybe a month) we're gonna see a news release from HAL. There will be changes ... of that I have no doubt. How restrictive those changes will be is another question whose answer I honestly have no idea.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

 

Hi Rita, I agree. I was surprised that the survey included mention of a 'total ban' ... but I can't see that happening. I wouldn't be surprised to see them follow Celebrity's lead though with prohibiting it in cabins and on balconies.

 

I've posted a poll on the Celebrity forum asking smokers who are leaving Celebrity to indicate which line they will go to. Princess has the most votes.

[sail7seas]

Good!