How long before the economy takes its toll?

[Roz]

Despite what the news media is saying, the economy is not bad everywhere. In Tennessee where I live, business is booming. We've not been hit with the subprime mortgages, and businesses and families continue to move to our state. Housing prices are not going down, although they're increasing in value at a slower rate.

 

People in other parts of the country may think we're a bunch of ignorant hicks :D , but we have it pretty darn good.

 

Even though the prices of gas and food are rising, I will (and am) making adjustments so that I can continue to travel and cruise. For instance, I take the bus to work most days and have cut back on restaurants. I'm also paying more attention to grocery store sales flyers and using coupons.

 

I have a cruise booked and will probably book another within the next month. My own personal economy looks pretty good.

 

Roz

[sail7seas]

I work for one of HAL's sister companies. Our advance bookings for 2009 are the highest we have ever experienced. And our yield (which translates to profit) is higher than it has been in many years.

 

The pool of prospective cruisers is not shrinking - but expanding rapidly.

 

 

 

 

 

The only ones we are losing are the Americans who can't afford to cruise anyway. But we are gaining millions of new European and Asian cruisers who see cruising as the bargain of the decade.

 

 

 

Wow..... Please don't count my money for me. We can do that for ourselves. Generalizations like that are never good. JMHO........

There certainly are some Americans who cannot afford to cruise. Always have been and always will be. There are also many Americans who can well afford to do most anything (within reason) they wish. Not everyone's house is being foreclosed and not every American is filing for Bankruptcy, though many are. We are all paying more for fuel and groceries etc but some of us are (most thankfully) able to absorb those increases.

Even better, the Europeans and Asians spend more money onboard every day.

 

Business looks very good for the cruise industry.

 

 

There are almost no businesses operating heavily in/with Americans not feeling the effect of the American economy and I sense cruising is no different.

[jhannah]

Do you want to cater to them? Keep them coming to the ships drawn by continuing lower prices or do you want those who can pay but will stop paying when you take away everything that is ?was? the HAL we love? We lost ship's hostesses, we lost Captain's Welcome Aboard party, we lost traditional Mariner's Party, we lost many cruise activities, we keep losing. At some point, we will have lost as much as we are willing to lose before we Get Lost.So far, DH and I still love HAL and our cruises and we have many future cruises booked. But even we have limits over which we will not cross. You have no more loyal nor enthusiastic cruiser than DH and me. We are your true cheerleaders but we have limits.

Very well put, ma'am.

[ginagirl]

Well, then, if Phillip is correct and their business is doing so wonderfully and appears to have an excellent future - why, I ask, are they dishing out cutbacks like there's no tomorrow??? I guess it's just the corportate greed that is so prevalent in our society today.:eek: Dish out whatever the market will "foolishly" bear. Like another poster on this HAL site, I also will draw a line and then discontinue cruising with HAL.

[sail7seas]

How about the price of fuel in Europe? No bargain!! It is ineveitable Europe's economy will ultimately be bombarded as well. They were accustomed to a higher price per gallon for years than we were. It has hit us harder as it is newer to us.

 

I believe I heard it is the equivalent of $7 per gallon in Holland. (I realize they don't buy in gallons but I'm sure that is the conversion I heard.)

[SueOverend]

How about the price of fuel in Europe? No bargain!! It is ineveitable Europe's economy will ultimately be bombarded as well. They were accustomed to a higher price per gallon for years than we were. It has hit us harder as it is newer to us.

 

I believe I heard it is the equivalent of $7 per gallon in Holland. (I realize they don't buy in gallons but I'm sure that is the conversion I heard.)

 

More like $10 a gallon! It is now costing me over £70 to fill up my car! I think things are pretty bad here in the UK - food and energy prices are through the roof - we're booked for a cruise later in the year, but are struggling to save the money we need for it. There will always be people who are not affected by a recession, but we are feeling it big time. My husband owns and run a small bakery / snack bar and his takings are down, but costs sky high, particularly wheat. I think 2009 might be a tricky year for everybody and I think the whole travel industry will feel the pinch, with people leaving bookings until nearer their travel date. Cruising is certainly booming and I think probably provides better value, so maybe the industry will survive without suffering too badly. With two of us working full time - after paying for food, fuel and energy, there is very little left over for spending on the funs things - somethings gotta give and I hope to goodness it's not our cruises!

[RedmondCruiser]

There is no recession, seeing how the economy grew in the first quarter of 2008.

 

If your neighbor is layed off its a recession - If you are layed off its a depression.

The economy is slowing down and its effecting more and more people. That along with the skyrocketing cost of oil and the declining value of the dollar will have a direct effect on HAL.

Many on these threads are right. HAL has to keep a quality product else they will loose their client base, and HAL has a very loyal client base. In tough times you have to try harder and do a better job. HAL has already cut too many things and taken things that were free and transformed them into revenue streams. (ie. no self serve laundry and no liquor taken back to the cabin from the kiosk. ) and the list seems to grow. At some point they need to raise prices and dwell on the product.

[iancal]

It is not just the price of oil that is causing the pain. It is also the combination of a several years of consistently large and growing federal deficit spending and the recent mortgage loan debacle. America is drowning in a sea of debt. This has contributed to the devaluation of the US dollar vis a vis other currencies.

[twinkletoes4445]

Never mind. :)

[cle1]

Oh....YOU SO GET IT!!!

 

Those who will still have the money to afford cruising are not looking for less. They can afford to pay for their household/basic living expenses AND cruise but they are not looking for a bare bones experience.

 

With all due respect to everyone reading and not insult meant to any but the fact of the matter is that people who can barely pay their grocery bill, will not be able to pay for cruises. They are often the same folks who seek the very lowest possible price for cruises as they have to. I totally support everyone's right to try to include a cruise in their budget but for HAL to continue trying to make a cruise affordable for many, will chase away those who can long term afford to continue to cruise but will stop if they no longer want to cruise. Some of that group will say "ENOUGH' already..... enough cutbacks and changes.

 

 

 

I am sure you know far better than me and have way more experience and business degrees etc I'm just a cruiser who can continue to afford to cruise, want to continue to cruise but want to continue enjoying a Tradition of Excellence on your ships. If you continue to strip the product bare, you take away what it is we come to the ships wanting and expecting.

 

You will lose those folks who need bare bones pricing in order to cruise. They are (sadly) going bankrupt daily and we are hearing from a poster on these boards who says to have worked with major lines on the ships that each cruise there are more and more people who cannot pay their on board account.

 

Do you want to cater to them? Keep them coming to the ships drawn by continuing lower prices or do you want those who can pay but will stop paying when you take away everything that is ?was? the HAL we love? We lost ship's hostesses, we lost Captain's Welcome Aboard party, we lost traditional Mariner's Party, we lost many cruise activities, we keep losing. At some point, we will have lost as much as we are willing to lose before we Get Lost.So far, DH and I still love HAL and our cruises and we have many future cruises booked. But even we have limits over which we will not cross. You have no more loyal nor enthusiastic cruiser than DH and me. We are your true cheerleaders but we have limits.

 

Thank you for this thread, Sea King. It's what I've been thinking for a while.

 

 

THANK YOU>>>THANK YOU....We just cruised the Maasdam this month (our 26th HAL cruise) and I you are saying just what I was thinking. I just wish HAL could somehow get the message!!!!!!!!!

HAL decision makers in Seattle if you are reading this:

[jhannah]

We just returned from 3 weeks in St. Petersburg, Russia. Petrol there is 103 Rubles per liter. At about 3.75 liters per gallon, and 23.4 Rubles per USD, that works out to an equivalent of $16.64 per gallon for them!

[hammybee]

Hard cold facts, most Americans cannot afford to cruise right now and they are cutting back on their on board spending if they are cruising.

 

I am not sure most Americans could afford to cruise before this economic downturn, but that did not stop em, now did it?

 

So many people live well beyond their means via credit cards and until recently, the cash cow, known as home equity.

 

Reportedly, about 43% of American families spend more than they earn, each year and this has fueled our economy, more so than anything else.

 

How many are a paycheck away from financial disaster? We are a nation of people who lost the ability to " do without" and increasenly felt entitled to having what we want, when we want, regardless of our ability to pay for it. We are a nation of debtors.

 

None of this is lost on any cruise line or any business, for that matter.

[twinkletoes4445]

I am not sure most Americans could afford to cruise before this economic downturn, but that did not stop em, now did it?

 

So many people live well beyond their means via credit cards and until recently, the cash cow, known as home equity.

 

Reportedly, about 43% of American families spend more than they earn, each year and this has fueled our economy, more so than anything else.

 

How many are a paycheck away from financial disaster? We are a nation of people who lost the ability to " do without" and increasenly felt entitled to having what we want, when we want, regardless of our ability to pay for it. We are a nation of debtors.

 

None of this is lost on any cruise line or any business, for that matter.

 

This is exactly what I posted before I deleted it. This is so true.

 

I have one friend who is so in debt, that she's not sleeping at night (she uses me to vent her frustrations on-but it's all their fault and no one elses). And it's all because they live high on the hog. They don't say "no" to anything. They have a 2nd mortgage...and now their house is worth less that what they owe on it. How crazy is that? And her husband has a good job and makes a very good living for them, but they spend way more than he makes.

 

People in this country have gotten away from saving and investing. They live for the moment and worry about the bills later. Well, now that the economy is weak, and costs for gas, food and everything else is increasing...most people can't afford this. There was a time when most people wanted to pay of their mortgage and be debt free...not any more...now they are just happy if they can pay the minimum on their credit cards and make their monthly bill on time. Forget trying to pay off the house early.

[sail7seas]

We see exactly the same thing.

 

I have considerable compassion for the people who are in debt as they unexpectly lost their job, have a sick child and bills aren't all covered by insurance or situations such as that.

 

I have no pity for those who purchased a hugely expensive house they knew they couldn't afford just to be show offs and now cannot pay the bills.

Sadly, there are so many in that category with credit card bills they will never live long enough to pay off. Therefore, they are dashing into Bankruptcy Courts and burning off that debt. Burning off debt at the expense of honest people who are being 'stiffed' by these debtors.

 

[twinkletoes4445]

I have considerable compassion for the people who are in debt as they unexpectly lost their job, have a sick child and bills aren't all covered by insurance or situations such as that.

 

I agree. I have a friend who's child had leukemia. And even with insurance, they were left with staggering bills (they maxed out coverage).

 

 

I have no pity for those who purchased a hugely expensive house they knew they couldn't afford just to be show offs and now cannot pay the bills.

 

I don't either. At my age (and that's the age my friends are), we're thinking about retirement. Why would anyone want a mortgage or credit card bills (that they can't pay off monthly)? My friend told me that her hubby has to work until he's 68 just so they can retire (and that's assuming they actually pay their mortgage off-but the way they are going, that's not going to happen).

 

And then what gets me is she acts like somehow I am so lucky. Yeah, well, luck had nothing to do with it. We saved our money and have no debt. It wasn't easy doing this, but it's the thing we wanted to do. We do own our own business, so maybe we think differently than most. You just never know what's going to happen...and you have to be prepared. I'd be surprised if half of the people in this country could go for any length of time without a paycheck.

 

Burning off debt at the expense of honest people who are being 'stiffed' by these debtors.

 

[/b]

 

That is so true. And so many people don't give a second thought to filing bankruptcy.

 

I'd like to think that what's going on now with the economy will make people stop and think about these things, but I doubt it will.

[JimVrhovac]

For years we had friends who would joke about us never taking a vacation or taking only cheap vacations so we could save for a rainy day.

 

Ruth is 100% disabled and retired.

 

I only have to make $500.00 per weak so I work about 20 hrs per week but we can live without that income.

 

We were frugile all those years now will have a retirement income in excess of $12,000.00 month.

 

Most of the people that laughed at us before are saying that they cannot afford to retire and if they do they will need to still work full time.

 

Good planning is the key and most Americans don't plan for their futures and then when they come face to face with that future "It is their falt that I cannot retire."

 

Have a great day.

 

Ruth & Jim

[mikjr]

We are seeing that already with fewer ships in the next 2 years sailing from the West Coast as well as seeing far more ships in Europe and more sailings in more exotic places.

 

Well... if this comment is correct, HAL, along with the other cruiselines are making a mistake. Reducing the number of sailings out of the West Coast is a BIG mistake. with the airlines in complete shambles, and getting worse, more and more of us will reduce our flying time and will look for cruises departing from our local area. I'm in Southern California... so Los Angeles and San Diego are great. We've even sailed out of San Francisco, which is a beautiful port.

Also... with the dollar in the tank, traveling to Europe has been put on hold for us. My TA told me that they have had countless cancellations since the dollar devaluation in Europe.

I hope the cruise companies recognize that there is a need for MORE cruise options from the West Coast... not less.

[hammybee]

Well... if this comment is correct, HAL, along with the other cruiselines are making a mistake. Reducing the number of sailings out of the West Coast is a BIG mistake.

 

This is so very similar to what happened in NY. So many posters were unhappy when HAL and others pulled winter sails from NYC area ports.

 

It's too bad more people were not willing to book these cruises unless the prices were steeply discounted. I think it a good move to eliminate unprofitable home ports instead of significantly diminishing the onboard experience to match the lousy revenues.

 

I was shocked as to how low prices on the Oosterdam were this past winter. I have no idea if South America will be a better intinerary, from a revenue standpoint, or not. I do know that the opportunities for onboard spending are greater than they are in Mexico and this may make a difference.

 

Given that the economies in some South American countires ( think Brazil) are on a major upswing, they might be able to pull it off.

[twinkletoes4445]

For years we had friends who would joke about us never taking a vacation or taking only cheap vacations so we could save for a rainy day.

 

My parents were like this, and you know what, they my dad retired at 50 (they are pushing 80 now). We took vacations...nothing real fancy, but we went somewhere every year. We also fortunate enough to have a family cabin in the Rocky Mountains, so we went there at least once a year.

 

The flip side to this is those folks that aren't in debt, yet can't pay the bills because of rising costs. There's not much some people can do...it takes everything they make just to pay the mortgage, utility bills and food on the table....and I really feel for them.

 

Any of us could be in trouble...I realize this...but at least if you're ahead, and not in debt, at least you have a chance. Some people don't. They are so far in debt that if they missed just one paycheck, they'd be out on the streets.

[hammybee]

 

This is exactly what I posted before I deleted it. This is so true.

 

I had a feeling ......and after I keyed my response I had second thoughts, too.:)

 

We all know people like this. Heck, they can't all be other people. 45% of us, are those people.;)

[LAFFNVEGAS]

Well... if this comment is correct, HAL, along with the other cruiselines are making a mistake. Reducing the number of sailings out of the West Coast is a BIG mistake. with the airlines in complete shambles, and getting worse, more and more of us will reduce our flying time and will look for cruises departing from our local area. I'm in Southern California... so Los Angeles and San Diego are great. We've even sailed out of San Francisco, which is a beautiful port.

 

Also... with the dollar in the tank, traveling to Europe has been put on hold for us. My TA told me that they have had countless cancellations since the dollar devaluation in Europe.

 

I hope the cruise companies recognize that there is a need for MORE cruise options from the West Coast... not less.

I agree with you and definitely do not want this to happen either. I hate traveling far and living in Las Vegas flights to the West Coast is the easiest but the fact is that HAL is pulling out the Oosterdam. I also understand Princess will have less West Coast Sailings. There are a few reasons for this 1. US travelers are not spending the money they were spending before. Yes, many of us want to stay here on the West Coast but most do not spend big money once they get on the ship like they use to. Onboard profits are down where at one time the Mexican Riviera was a big money maker for all areas. If the profits are not there they move the ship to areas where onboard spending is still high. The 2nd BIG reason for less ships sailing from the West Coast is while there will be less ships there will not be less berths. Royal Caribbean is bringing over Explorer of the Seas with a passenger count of 3114 ++ then you have Carnival going Head to head, or should I say Bow To Bow with their Carnival Splendor with total passenger capacity of 3734. That is almost 7000 berths to fill. Granted those of us that love HAL would prefer to not sail either of these cruise lines but sadly we are a very very small percentage. HAL can move their ships like the Oosterdam to places like South America and double and triple the prices of each cabin and fill them up whith passengers that can afford to sail to these places spend far more on board, giving HAL far more profits.

While it saddens me and may force me to cruise another cruiseline, I can understand their thinking and just hope the economy moves to a more positive direction that will have the cruiselines rethink the positioning of their ships.

[twinkletoes4445]

I had a feeling ......and after I keyed my response I had second thoughts, too.:)

 

The funny thing is, your post was pretty much exactly what mine was. I read it and for a moment, thought it was mine...yet I knew I deleted mine! Or at least I thought I did. :)

 

We all know people like this. Heck, they can't all be other people. 45% of us, are those people.;)

 

Very true.

[sail7seas]

I remember when tipping was optional, everyone here on these boards left very generous tips. :D

 

None of us flush anything we shouldn't and wreck the toilets in our whole line. :D

 

None of our children run around etc :D

 

We never block the gangway waiting for disembarkation to begin. :D

 

It's all the other folks. Not us. :D

 

[SJSULIBRARIAN]

On last Sunday's Wall Street Journal Report, the President of Sandals Resorts and Richard Fine (I think that is his name), President of RCCL, both indicated that bookings were up for 2009. They both said that travlers now are looking more toward all inclusive vacations which both companies provide.

 

Barbara

[marle7]

I remember when tipping was optional, everyone here on these boards left very generous tips. :D

 

None of us flush anything we shouldn't and wreck the toilets in our whole line. :D

 

None of our children run around etc :D

 

We never block the gangway waiting for disembarkation to begin. :D

 

It's all the other folks. Not us. :D

 

 

Isn't that the truth.:D

 

On last Sunday's Wall Street Journal Report, the President of Sandals Resorts and Richard Fine (I think that is his name), President of RCCL, both indicated that bookings were up for 2009. They both said that travlers now are looking more toward all inclusive vacations which both companies provide.

 

 

Did they say where these bookings were coming from? North America? Europe? The cruise lines have repeatedly said they are focusing on the European market for cruisers so I wonder if more ships will be moved out of the States to accommodate this trend.

 

for us, here in Canada, hubby and I aren't feeling the recession, although I think so certainly are. I notice that at our cottage, there are far fewer cottagers up at this time of year as opposed to last year, and I wonder how many will run their boats for water skiing etc because of the price of gas.

 

We haven't stopped booking cruises (we have 4 booked so far, 2 this year and 2 next), and it isn't likely that we will. But we're pretty fortunate in our income. Not everyone is.

Barbara