Are onboard mutinies justified?

[watchdiva]

Suggestion for today - let's take up a collection and buy the lawyer who riled everyone up some cheese to go with his WHINE........

 

Some of these disgruntled pax need to get a grip - you rolled the dice when you chose to cruise during hurricane season and you came up snake eyes.

 

Sometimes I absolutely cannot believe what some people get up to when not everything goes as they expect - gimme, gimme, gimme...

[kissonthelips2]

It's great that you have such confidence in the Captain, but...I just gotta ask, when the dude can't even follow basic Customer Service practices, it's kinda hard to have such total confidence in his overall competence.

 

 

 

Oookay...and would you feel that way if YOU were not given any information about where you were going, and what little you WERE given was conflicting or clearly wrong, and in the meantime you were being told that you were a sucker and your feelings don't matter?

 

I'm having a hard time understanding why so many are failing to see the REAL issue that occurred on Miracle, that contributed to the mutiny: abyssmal behavior by the Captain. Look, cruises have been dropping and diverting ports in hurricane season for decades - how often has a passenger revolt happened? Doesn't anybody wonder what was different about THIS cruise that caused it to happen?

 

It's been stated repeatedly by those who were on the ship, and their friends/family on this board: it was the Captain's inexcusable behavior.

I understand about customer service. I am a customer service manager and the information delivery (Assurance Statements and Empathy) should have been handled by a competent staff. It sounds like it wasn't handled very well. I don't necessarily believe the Captain needs to be a direct advocate when his hands are full of getting a ship, crew, and passangers safely through the trip.

I am not discounting what everyone experienced. It can be very disappointing to plan something for months and it not turn out to be what you expected.

About mutiny, I don't believe that mutiny is an avenue to obtain satisfaction in an already deteriorating situation. There are other avenues to "vent" and perhaps Carnival will take a lesson from the responses, good, bad, and indifferent and put a plan in place to keep everyone informed and updated although I doubt that even doing so would make everyone happy.

One last thing... May your cruises be blessed with sunshine, good times, and soft breezes. <I live in Florida - Hurricanes can be no fun at all!> Blessings to all!

[w&k]

I'm a Floridian, and I cruise during Hurricane season.

 

In 2004, here in North Florida, we had a busy year. Nobody but us remembers Tropical Storm Bonnie, primarily for the tornados in our area. Hurricanes Charlie, Frances, and Jeanne all also came to visit us, and Ivan looped around for another shot at us because the first landfall was in the panhandle.

 

We were on the Sovereign trip where Port Canaveral was closed, so we got bused to Fort Lauderdale to meet the ship. However, the bus we were on was so old and rusty that the exhaust came up through the floor because we didn't have enough stuff to cover all of the holes.

 

Finally getting on the ship was a wonderful experience after camping in my own house for a week after Hurricane Frances. We brought the really important stuff with us - family and friends. On-board, we also had a good supply of the other stuff that we had been missing...electrical power, flushable toilets, running water, air conditioning, ice cubes, fresh food, and cold beverages.

 

The ambiance was certainly more pleasant than the aftermath of a half-gallon of melted ice cream throughout the kitchen (try cleaning that up with an inch of rainwater in the bottom of a bucket), and a once-per-day flush so the septic system would not overflow. Don't forget that the weather was a steamy 90-95F just to make it even more fun.

 

We just got off the Sovereign again yesterday. Our trip was flip-flopped, with the day at sea first, and CocoCay last because of Hurricane Ike. We packed in one small carry-on each, so the itinerary change meant we had to wear a skanky shirt home. Oh well! If we had ended up somewhere else, or just steaming around nowhere at all, it would have been just fine with us.

 

It definitely stinks to have a vacation diverted, but life is the journey, not the destination. However, I do think that port charges collected for a port not visited should be refunded to the passenger. That's only fair.

 

Tonight, I'm thinking about the Gulf Coast... and all the folks there that have had their homes and livelihoods destroyed or disrupted.

 

Wendy

[gemini63]

I can't sympathize at all with the mutinous passengers on the Miracle... They were sailing during hurricane season, and should have realized there was a good chance of re-routing. I just got off the Liberty this morning. It was supposed to have gone to San Juan, St. Thomas, Grand Turk and Half Moon Cay. I was THRILLED to see it had been re-routed as of 4pm the day before we sailed. I did NOT want to be on a ship tossing about in Ike's wake. We went to Grand Cayman, Cozumel, Belize and Roatan. I'd never been to the latter two ports and just loved them! Especially Roatan - visit it NOW before it gets built up! The only thing I could fault Carnival on is the choice of Cayman as the first stop - we were in the south western wake of Ike by that point, and we shouldn't have stopped. They had to shorten the shore time by two hours. Thankfully the citizens of Grand Cayman listen to the news and knew about our early departure - I don't know how people who'd gone ashore on their own would have known of it.

Anyway - don't cruise in September just because it's so cheap if you can't handle itinerary changes!! At least they covered the right number of ports... And Newport is gorgeous this time of year!!

[gemini63]

I can't sympathize at all with the mutinous passengers on the Miracle... They were sailing during hurricane season, and should have realized there was a good chance of re-routing. I just got off the Liberty this morning. It was supposed to have gone to San Juan, St. Thomas, Grand Turk and Half Moon Cay. I was THRILLED to see it had been re-routed as of 4pm the day before we sailed. I did NOT want to be on a ship tossing about in Ike's wake. We went to Grand Cayman, Cozumel, Belize and Roatan. I'd never been to the latter two ports and just loved them! Especially Roatan - visit it NOW before it gets built up! The only thing I could fault Carnival on is the choice of Cayman as the first stop - we were in the south western wake of Ike by that point, and we shouldn't have stopped. They had to shorten the shore time by two hours. Thankfully the citizens of Grand Cayman listen to the news and knew about our early departure - I don't know how people who'd gone ashore on their own would have known of it.

Anyway - don't cruise in September just because it's so cheap if you can't handle itinerary changes!! At least they covered the right number of ports... And Newport is gorgeous this time of year!!

[world~citizen]

Ahhhh, so there was communication on the ship from Carnival. Funny how the mutineers left this information out.

 

The OP question refers to the general efficacy of "mutiny's" on board ships - not just referencing ships in the caribbean during hurricane season.

 

I have suggested that it would be more relevant to the cruise community if the thread looked at the whole issue of port cancellations in general. Also, as there is (and never was) a question of wresting the command of ship from lawful authority, we should avoid the use of the word "mutiny" which is a charged word that does not reflect what was going on on any ship where this was purported to have happened and everyone everywhere agrees is never appropriate under any circumstances. It is a mischievous word twigging peoples emotions and eliciting emotional responses.

 

There is a legitimate question of how and why cruise companies can cancel ports, and how such cancellations should be accommodated.

 

It is safe to say, cancellations to avoid a hurricane are just fine. In heaven's name we have already agreed to that on this thread 1000 times over.

 

Smooth sailing...

[LauraAnne30]

I sort of think the way this entire conversation on this thread is going is strange....Most of us on that Miracle voyage didn't mind the change and had a great time.

 

There were 300 out of 2150 that were upset.....The lawyer from NY is the one to blame for everything.....he was making the situation worse by promising folks a refund and the hopes of a class action lawsuit.

 

The majority of this trip does get it about hurricane season and that there can be changes.....I think when the "mob" attacked (that what it looked like to me) the pursers desks, I really think all bets were off for them making some sort of reparations to everyone. The small minority ruined it for all us.

[Socref124]

The OP question refers to the general efficacy of "mutiny's" on board ships - not just referencing ships in the caribbean during hurricane season.

 

Actually, this is the question the OP posed.

Do you think these increasingly common mutinies are justified? Please vote in our poll or share your opinion below.

 

My comment was based on LauraAnne30 stating there was communication from Carnival to the passengers regarding the redirecting of the Miracle. Several posters made comments that Carnival should have communicated to the passengers. According to LauraAnne30, she was a passenger on the Miracle, Carnival did communicate to the passengers.

When we were on the Triumph, the port authority in Grand Cayman would not open the port due to rough seas. The Captain made an announcement and the CD made several announcements about the port being closed for safety (Getting on and off tenders in rough surf). Somy experience told me that Carnival does communicate to it's passengers and LauraAnne30's post stated the same thing. I agree with you that Mutiny is the wrong word to be used in the context of what happened on the Miracle. Unfortunately, there is a segment of our population that looks to get something whenever their plans are disrupted.

[LauraAnne30]

Socref124

 

Yes - they did keep us posted as to the re-routing.....that was not the groups issue. They didn't like the alternate choice of ports. They could careless how many times they were told where we would be going....the fact is they weren't happy because we didn't end up in the caribbean.

[wiskt]

There have been occassions when we missed a port -- no big deal!!

 

I would rather the captain make a choice to go elsewhere -- whether it be further out to sea or another port if there is a chance we may get caught in a hurricane. The captain is thinking of the passenger safety.

 

100% agreed. if for some reason this ship was caught in the hurricaine and someone was hurt, they would have all been on the 6:00pm news crying how Carnival chose to gamble their lives.

 

ignorant cruisers like this thinking if they make rutcus loud enough they will get something out of it should be flagged from booking a new cruise just to make the rest of our vacations more pleasant.

 

I was not on the ship so I don't know what went on, however, if i was I would have been more upset with the distruptive passengers that were distrupting MY vacation.

[JackHamilton]

100% agreed. if for some reason this ship was caught in the hurricaine and someone was hurt, they would have all been on the 6:00pm news crying how Carnival chose to gamble their lives.

 

Nothing I've read has said that the irate passengers wanted the ship to motor into a hurricane. You're just attacking a straw man.

 

What they wanted was compensation for the missed ports. And if the revised itinerary had lower port costs for Carnival, I agree that the difference should have been refunded. That's a risk the cruise line takes on by choosing to operate in a hurricane area during hurricane season. Carnival knows the risks better than passengers do.

 

ignorant cruisers like this thinking if they make rutcus loud enough they will get something out of it should be flagged from booking a new cruise just to make the rest of our vacations more pleasant.

 

I was not on the ship so I don't know what went on, however, if i was I would have been more upset with the distruptive passengers that were distrupting MY vacation.

You could always ignore them. My impression (and I wasn't on the ship either) was that the complaining happened in appropriate places (even if the level of complaint was not appropriate).

[Monkeythyme]

Carnival did nothing to ease the tension and in fact the Captain made sarcastic and infalmmatory remarks to the passengers. I was horrified at the behavior of the rabble rousers and the "lawyer" but I must admit that the Captain bears some of the blame in this mess.

Perhaps so, but when a competent professional is being challenged by totally ignorant people who apparently cannot read, I can see how sarcasm could rear its head. "The customer is always right" is a uniquely American philosophy, and I always try to remember that when outside my native borders.

[FinelyCruising]

You could always ignore them. My impression (and I wasn't on the ship either) was that the complaining happened in appropriate places (even if the level of complaint was not appropriate).

 

FWIW...I was on a famous Bleach Cruise. Complaining was everywhere, there was no escape of discussions no matter where we were and it really stunk.

[trock]

Perhaps so, but when a competent professional is being challenged by totally ignorant people who apparently cannot read, I can see how sarcasm could rear its head. "The customer is always right" is a uniquely American philosophy, and I always try to remember that when outside my native borders.

'

 

Actually... he hehehe.. it is French in origin, coined by a French Hotelier named Ritz sometime in the 1800s- He coined the phrase 'The customer is never wrong..' and it was later adapted by the British for the Selfridge store chain, 'The customer is always right'...

 

lol.. Sometimes we can be ugly Americans-but apparantly we inherited our thinking from our European ancesters! :p ;)

[huskerdude]

Kind of timely thread as we just returned from a 7 day cruise on Valor. On Monday we were to be in Nassau. Well the Captain decided that the waves were still to high to try & dock and make it back out later. I would much rather he make that decision than to try & dock & something terrible happens.

 

We were disappointed because this was our first Eastern Cruise & have never been there. But I would never cause a scene like what I have heard some on the Miracle did.

[JackHamilton]

FWIW...I was on a famous Bleach Cruise. Complaining was everywhere, there was no escape of discussions no matter where we were and it really stunk.

 

I've heard that tiresome table mates are a problem regardless of the weather.

 

Happily, I've never had them myself.

 

What's a Bleach Cruise? Googling the term brings up a subject I'd just as soon not discuss.

[FinelyCruising]

I've heard that tiresome table mates are a problem regardless of the weather.

 

Happily, I've never had them myself.

 

What's a Bleach Cruise? Googling the term brings up a subject I'd just as soon not discuss.

 

Mercury Bleach Cruise.....that should make it better...;)

[Sioux6]

There is no way that the passengers should have been upset to the point of taking away tips from people that serviced them all week. You have to learn to go with the flow and have a good time no matter what happens. If you can't have a positive attitude, stay home during hurricane season. We just got back from the same cruise, a week later (left on Sept. 6) and had a wonderful time. Ike destroyed Grand Turk, but the Capt. made up for it by staying 4 extra hours in St. Thomas and going to Tortola instead. It was a great cruise and all had a wonderful time.

[AllyGirl13]

I've heard that tiresome table mates are a problem regardless of the weather.

 

Happily, I've never had them myself.

 

We have had tiresome table mates on the last cruise. Well, actually it was one out of the four traveling together, but still. Never ending - the towels weren't soft enough, the water was too hot and so on. OMG it got old FAST.

[forensic]

I would normally say that if they had only missed one port that it should have been expected if you cruise during Hurricane season. BUT I REALLY think this is an exception. They did not get to any of their ports! Rhode Island is "hardly" the Eastern Caribbean! I am a TA and if I or any of my clients had been on this cruise I would expect at least a 50% credit toward their next cruise with Carnival. Now I realized it is not Carnival's fault either, but they have to realize that NO passenger on this ship got anything that they expected. They also have to think about how many passengers on that horrible cruise may never cruise again. IF it were my cruise line I would try very hard to off set that and give them a credit. If they don't come back it will cost Carnival nothing. If they come back you have probably won a friend for life.

As a TA that owns my own business I would give them back 1/2 of their commission. It would show I cared that their vacation was ruined and probably get them to come back to me when planning their next vacation.

[LauraAnne30]

It was NOT a horrible cruise.....we had 8 days of sun....you have to remember that this cruise....was 5 days on the ship itself and 3 ports....so we didn't get to the caribbean...we still had 8 nice days....

 

I also think, the mob (that is what I am choosing to call them) probably ruined any chance of us getting anything!!!

 

I think - people should realize when you cruise from a north port there is no room for error. Had we left from Florida some where I am sure that this entire scenario would have been different. Instead...can someone tell what islands are located between NYC and Freeport???? NONE!

 

So where do they take us? I mean seriously....maybe they should stop making this trip during late Aug and Sept...make everyone this time of year head south....

[JackHamilton]

Mercury Bleach Cruise.....that should make it better...;)

 

I'm not sure that's any better than the Tom Cruise results for "bleach cruise"!

[mickeyboy7]

I believe most of us agree that a "mutiny" is uncalled for. I think though, that the main problem was Carnival's decision to head NORTH when there were other Caribbean choices to be had, I know a pal who was on Norwegian's Spirit at the same time and they diverted to Bermuda. At least the were in BLUE waters with sunny beaches. This has to be better than NYC to New England.

[CC Help Michell]

I believe most of us agree that a "mutiny" is uncalled for. I think though, that the main problem was Carnival's decision to head NORTH when there were other Caribbean choices to be had, I know a pal who was on Norwegian's Spirit at the same time and they diverted to Bermuda. At least the were in BLUE waters with sunny beaches. This has to be better than NYC to New England.

 

Norwegian has an ongoing relationship with Bermuda, sailing there weekly with 1-2 ships year round. I think Carnival maybe makes one stop per year in Bermuda. In an emergency re-routing, relationships like that count; the ship can't just call the port and say "we're coming in." Each port has a harbormaster who has to consider commercial as well as cruise traffic, tender capacity, etc. in permitting ships to call. It's not nearly as simple as some want to make it.

 

I think the timing of Hanna's arrival also played a role in when the Miracle had to head back north, in order to get back into NYC on time, without having the entire cruise delayed waiting for the storm (which went up the eastern seaboard) to pass.

[MrsS471]

How ridiculous that passengers would even consider revolting when a cruise ship moves out of harms way! These are the same morons who would immediately sue the cruiseline should they be injured during a storm.

When you cruise during hurricane season you have to know going in that your itinerary is likely to change due to inclement weather. That's why the rates go down and it's considered "off season".