Are onboard mutinies justified?

[JWilsonTL]

Really ? Give me a break.....first of all what I want to know is WHO goes on a cruise to specifically go to the ports of call ? If you want to go to San Juan, then why not fly there and stay for a few days ? :confused:

The few hours they give you in each port is hardly enough time to really care where you are.....we go in Port just because, but we always look forward to getting back to the ship since that's where all the fun is ! :D

Jen

[njmomof2]

My co worker was on the Miracle for this cruise. She said that she took pictures of the group who were the most dissatisfied and they numbered more like 50 to her eyes.

 

Her chief complaint was not about missing the ports (which really was the reason she selected this particular cruise) but the fact that the communication was so poor. The channels on TV came out of Denver, so their weather reporting was spotty at best. They didn't feel that the CD or Pursor really made the effort to give people real time information readily, even taking into account the fact that decisions can be changed often.

 

One of her biggest issues was when they got to Newport. Obviously, this was not the scheduled port, but Carnival did manage to organize an excursion to the mansions. However, she had college aged kids with her who had no interest in that. Now, the weather was beautiful but she's never been to Newport or researched it in any way. Now here is the problem...apparently there are beaches fairly close to where they docked. Yet Carnival staff gave them no information about other options of things to do, places they might want to visit. Had they known about the beaches, they would have headed there for the day and enjoyed themselves. But they didn't know until they were almost about to depart.

 

Would it have been such a big deal to have the staff inform people of some options at this otherwise unexpected port? Certainly, people might have enjoyed it more had they had better information.

 

As for tipping, my friend actually gave extra to each of her people because she was so appalled at the behavior of this small group.

 

The behavior of this group was totally uncalled for, but perhaps HQ could learn a bit about communication from all of this. I know that we've all been stuck in the airport waiting for information about our flight that never comes. It's the most frustrating thing around. A little regular communication goes a long way. Plus, a couple of free drinks doesn't hurt either!

[spikester]

You know, maybe since the ship was coming down the Atlantic coast that is why it couldn't get into more/different islands. After all Hannah went UP the coast, and was pretty much heading into NY by Sun AM.

 

I agree, communication is the key. But a few rabblerousers shouldn't be allowed to spoil the time for the other cruisers who decide to just go with it and have fun no matter what.

I probably wouldn't have been super happy, but being in Cancun during a tropical storm and in Aruba with the outskirts of a hurricane, I wouldn't have wanted to be on an island or on a ship in the middle of it.

 

Really, who wants to see other pax just getting sick all over the place!

[gammasip]

No reason to mutiny at all...and no reason to get any compensation.

And surely it's NO reason to withhold your tips for the crew! They are still working hard...and putting up with the complaining, thankless people!

People will always complain and want to get something out of it.

The Captain is only doing his job...which is to keep everyone safe.

I have sailed numerous times during hurricane season and only had our ports changed twice. If you can't handle having your ports changed, stay home and be happy!

[trivia nut]

Some people are just not satisfied until you wave the almighty dollar in front of them to shut them up. Money back guarantees work in restaurants preparing poor food or hotels that ar not clean.

 

Once a captain has made a safe sound decision there can be no justice for people who just want their money back, no matter how senseless their argument.

[AllyGirl13]

While cruising in hurricane season, regardless of the reason, you should ALREADY know that you MIGHT have an itenerary change. It is not up to the cruise line to hold your hand and give you a minute to minute update. I do not think that anyone is owed any compensation other than a refund of port fees if the ship doesn't port and of course pre-booked excursion refunds. Hence if 3 ports are scheduled and 3 ports are made - no refund. It doesn't matter if the ports made were not the ones expected. Would you expect the casino to compensate you for your losses at the Black Jack table?? As for a port that you know nothing about, get out & explore. Ask folks that live there for suggestions or just stay on the ship. We have cruised in hurricane season & were lucky not to be affected by weather. I would rather be safe than risk a Titanic moment. I also think that the instigator of that incident should have been taken into custody and escorted off the ship - at his/her expense. The cruise line has every right to do so. (I've actually seen it done once) Why can't everyone just be happy that they even get to cruise. Some people will never get the chance to do so. Those kind of people would not be satisfied no matter what vacation they had taken. Withholding gratuities was just a selfish decision & only shows that those people are truly morons. The crew STILL did their job & had to put up with this. A great pat on the back to those that gave more gratuities than expected to the crew members. I'm sure it was well deserved

[karen116]

My family and I (a group of 11) were on the Miracle for the 8/21 sailing and returned to NY on 8/29.....The people on the Miracle work very hard to make sure that their passengers are comfortable and safe.

 

I've cruised Carnival five times.....I've had port changes (last year on the Miracle we were handed a paper at the port in NY stating that all of our ports had been changed due to Hurricane Dean - we had such a great time we sailed the Miracle again). I've also had a cruise shortened due to the noro virus (our thanksgiving sailing on the Liberty) - instead of 7 days we sailed for 5.

 

A trip/vacation is what you make of it.....maybe the 8/29 sailing wasn't what everyone was wishing it would be but i've read lots of nice comments from people that were on this sailing.

 

I think think that some of the people on board own an apology to the staff that they screwed out of their tips.

[capncarp]

A REAL mutiny would allow the Captain and crew to resort to some fairly stern and serious countermeasures.

And if I remember correctly, maritime law provides a ship's captain with broad powers to deal with emergency situations.

[lovesublime]

You obviously know nothing about Bermuda and the size ships it can and can not accomodate

 

And so YOU'RE an expert on Bermuda then?:rolleyes:

[lovesublime]

You weren't on the ship, right? Neither was I but I have talked to people who were.. The Captain in an attempt at humor and levity in the theatre was joking with the audience..

 

Have you never seen the staff and the dry wit of many Europeans?

 

Perhaps communication could have been better, there are those that said it was fine.. I was not there..

 

This is so ridiculous and such an attempt by those on board to get something for nothing..:rolleyes:

 

 

You obviously weren't on the ship, but yet you carry on here like you know a LOT more about what happened than those who were actually on the ship. You either discount their posts because they're new here or are trying to convince us that they are possibly mentally ill- because things didn't really happen the way they perceived them to happen. Give me a break!

[cruzintheocean]

In my opinion, they are NEVER justified for any reason!!!!!

[sailorgranny]

You are missing the point entirely. Most of the dissent was because of the lack of communication from Carnival and the Captain and his staff. Carnival did nothing to ease the tension and in fact the Captain made sarcastic and infalmmatory remarks to the passengers. I was horrified at the behavior of the rabble rousers and the "lawyer" but I must admit that the Captain bears some of the blame in this mess. It appears as if the Miracle was the odd man out when it came to alternative ports. Other ships went to Key West and Bermuda but the Miracle either couldn't because of the propulsion problem or chose not --either way the cruise was certainly under a cloud agter that. The atmosphere on the ship was terrible and at times frightening.

 

I've been enjoying your sensible postings and the way you always focus on the core issue of communication.

Fuel savings were probably part of the port selections too. If we had swung east we could have reached the planned original port of St. Thomas. At least that is what some onboard were theorizing. We just needed to go far enough east to be out of the storm zone.

As ever, while many are commenting, only those of us on the trip know the full story and unfortunate that the focus has drifted to mutiny, whiners, tip taking back....most of us didn't deduct tips, didn't "mutiny", were just exhibiting common sense.

[bar_20]

I was on the Norway in 2002 where a female worker of NCL fell off the ship. It was at night and they didn't miss her until she didn't report to work. The cruise ship had to turn around and retrace its voyage. She was found about 10 hours later. A miracle! We missed our first port, St. Maarten. There were many people ticked off that they should have turned around and made them miss a port. Almost all of those that were mad were the ones that had made private excursions, not through the cruiseline and were not going to get there money back. I am wondering if it's the same case with this cruise. Changing a ships itenerary in the middle of a cruise is not like a bus tour changing one of their stops. More than likely the ports they did go through were set-up as they were sailing to them.

[sockeye1]

I know the changes in ports was disappointing to the passengers on the Carnival Miracle, but I agree with the cruise lines that the safety of the passengers, crew and ship come first and foremost in every sailing. Holding a mutiny on board or demanding refunds is not acceptable when it is a weather-related issue. To those folks who got upset, be VERY THANKFUL you are alive to tell about it. Being on a ship in rough seas is no picnic, and I can personally attest to that.

[trock]

And so YOU'RE an expert on Bermuda then?:rolleyes:

 

Never said I was an expert, but I have been there many many times as friends live there..So i know a bit ;)

[trock]

[quote name='lovesublime']You obviously weren't on the ship, but yet you carry on here like you know a LOT more about what happened than those who were actually on the ship. You either discount their posts because they're new here or are trying to convince us that they are possibly mentally ill- because things didn't really happen the way they perceived them to happen. Give me a break![/quote]

Kind of like you flying the plane vicariously through your son and husband;)
I have never accused anyone of being mentally ill ..but i may start

[Solo1959]

[quote name='Erica@cruisecritic']Last week, passengers on Carnival Miracle started a near revolt when a significant itinerary change...Do you think these increasingly common mutinies are justified? Please vote in our poll or share your opinion below.[/quote]

Weather happens all the time. How many times do ports get cancelled because the water is too rough for tenders? Or too windy to dock? It's a VACATION! Relax, enjoy the cruise, the food, the shows, the bars, the casino, go to the spa, eat at the buffet, show off your hairy chest.... Go with it and you'll be fine and have a great time.

This was NOTHING new. The only thing different here was that a rabble rouser upstart got a mob going.

[LauraAnne30]

Hey all - I was on this cruise ship....

I have to tell you we have cruised in hurricane season before...and we know what can happen and just go with the flow...after all when we booked the trip we knew that 5 days were at sea and only 3 days in port. The days at sea didn't change....we had great weather!!! They kept us in the sun and the warm weather and it was awesome. As for the ports - it was really rough going into Port Canaveral and Freeport. To be honest, I dont know why they would have wanted to go closer to the storm. Newport was a GREAT port. It truly was an unexpected surprise. We loved it!

As for the "trouble makers". by friday I was ready to dump them over board. They really were trying to ruin everyones time. They were confrontational and you couldn't talk to them with out them shouting at the staff, crew and other passengers. I witnessed and got caught in the middle of on altercation. I have to say I didn't think grown ups could act that way. Yes, it is true these lovely people pulled $20,000 in tips from their accounts which meant the staff didn't get paid by them. Better yet, there were people "trashing" their rooms and throwing food on the floor and leaving things all over the ships for someone else to pick up.

Lastly, while I liked the cruise and the people we met and hung out with - there was definately a "rougher" element on this cruise. I am not sure if you have ever seen "security" walking around but, we had them in their uniforms roaming around the ship. Bottom line is that we like carnival and will sail them again but, we may do it when a flight is required because I think it would elimate some of the riff raff that was on the ship.

Laura:)

[LauraAnne30]

Oops forgot one thing...

The leader of the pack so to speak was an attorney who obviously never read his cruise contract!

[JoeAndMichael]

We weren't there, so we don't actually know how the passengers were treated onboard: were the crewmembers rude, was information long-delayed, or did management treat the passengers as if they were unimportant? Were the reasons given for the changes accurate? We were on a such a cruise where one of the ship's rotors was disabled and they made up weather excuses to cover it. We only found the true reason for the itinerary changes when we got home! Would we have been pissed if told the TRUTH? Hell, no!
Otherwise, the only reason I can think of to complain at all, but NOT to mutiny, would be if the number of ports was reduced and the ship saved money in port charges and did not refund those savings to the passengers.
It is absurd, ignorant, and just plain stupid to make a big fuss over a decision that saved their LIVES! Jeez!

[travelerjoyce]

To me it is sad that so many travellers get so upset, angry and dissatisfied with people that are working so hard to serve them and make their vacation wonderful. We cruise at least 2 times a year and with over 20 under our belts, I never met a cruise I didn't like. Certainly, some have been better than others, but even with a change in itinerary it still beats staying home. We have missed ports we were looking forward to due to weather, but even an unplanned day at sea can be relaxing and calming if you let it be. If you want to lower the chances of missing a port, don't cruise in hurricaine areas during hurricaine season, pay higher prices to go other times.

[bluecruisin]

There was NO excuse for the shameful behavior and mutiny by some of the passengers. HOWEVER, a little bit of honey goes a long way. A complimentary glass of wine at dinner or a "hurricane" cocktail party one night or simple fruit/cheese tray to each cabin or even $20pp OBC, anything that symbolized alittle understanding on that part of cruiseline would have been a nice gesture.

[world~citizen]

[quote name='Erica@cruisecritic']Last week, passengers on Carnival Miracle started a near revolt when a significant itinerary change due to Tropical Storm Hanna turned their Eastern Caribbean sailing into a cruise to Florida, the Bahamas...and Newport, Rhode Island. Cruise Critic Editor in Chief Carolyn Spencer Brown shares her opinion on onboard mutinies in today's From the Bridge feature: [URL]http://www.cruisecritic.com/articles.cfm?ID=736[/URL]

Do you think these increasingly common mutinies are justified? Please vote in our poll or share your opinion below.[/quote]

CSB's views on this subject are, to say the least, consistent.

The problem is, ports will be missed, and you have to evaluate each occurrence according to its own merits. Also, "mutiny" gets tossed around a lot to describe the response of the passengers. "Mutiny" is a hot button word that implies wresting control of the ship from lawful command and [B]for goodness sake of course that is not justified.[/B]

Is that, however, what we are really talking about here?

Under the cruise contract (something out of a previous century) that we all sail under, cruise passenger rights count for precious little. For those of you who have never read one, do so next time. You may be shocked. You may not know whether you should laugh hysterically or weep inconsolably - it is that one sided. Worse, when ports are missed, cruise lines respond to the inevitable passenger disappointment with an iron fisted intransigence that would make Captain Bligh blush.

Does anyone really argue that vessels should not be diverted for the safety of the ship and souls on board? Of course not. The real issue is, what do you do when port diversions or eliminations occur? Clearly, these phoney "mutinies" that the media and CC refer to are happening with greater frequency, and we may expect them to continue to do so.

I don't have the answer, but I think I can offer some constructive observations that could be part of a meaningful dialogue that, sooner or later, the cruise industry will have to have with its customers, which happen to be living in the 21st century.

Cruiselines must acknowledge that they package and sell vacation "experiences", and that the ports of call on a cruise are an important part of that experience. Indeed, expensive, once in a lifetime vacation holidays may be chosen according to these exotic ports of call.

Second, we should accept that not all port cancellations and diversions are alike. A diversion or cancellation made to avoid a hurricane in mid cruise for example, is not the same as cancellations made weeks before a ship sails, but a day or two after the final payment date.

Passengers should accept that some itinerary changes are inevitable and justifiable; cruiselines should accept that passenger disappointment is equally sincere and inevitable.

Cruiselines should come together with cruise passengers and industry specialists to explore an appropriate and reasonable response to the inevitable passenger disappointment which is consistent with the nature of the port cancellation and 21st century expectations. Here everyone should be encouraged to think outside the box. Perhaps missed port insurance can be offered, or a discount for passengers who waive their right to compensation for lost ports could be established. Solutions are out there.

Finally, it should be a gold standard that cruise line response to these situations should be even, with no passenger or class of passengers getting a better "deal" than any other.

Extreme action breeds extreme reaction. I see the "whining" and anger of disappointed passengers as a symptom of the problem, not the problem itself.

We [B]can[/B] work together to resolve these problems before they occur.

Smooth sailing to you...

[Cruisin' Chick]

Ports get missed. It's a fact of cruising life, whether it's weather or mechnanical related. If you feel the staff didn't communicate enough during the cruise (like, you didn't read the weather reports before your cruise?:rolleyes: ), then you should write valid comments on the comment card about why you didn't think there was enough communication.

One thing to remember about hurricanes is taht they are unpredictable. Perhaps the captain didn't want to (or couldn't) commit to a specific route ahead of time because of this. Also, as mentioned above, only so many ships can visit a port at a time. So in addition to the regularly scheduled ships, only so many more ships can be accommodated. So just saying, well, this ship went to Nassau, so why didn't we, isn't a valid criticism. If you have a constructive suggestion (such as the captain posting a quick bulletin someplace about the current status), then state it on the comment card or any communications mailed post-cruise.

Just remember, it is [U]your[/U] safety that the captain cares about.

[mc-cruiser]

I know it can be a huge disappointment to miss a specific port if you had plans. I personally feel just being on vacation is a joy. The cruise line does have the passengers safety and comfort in mind. However, some people are NEVER going to be happy unless they get a free cruise. I think it may have been a good idea to provide complimentary something (spa discount, casino credit or drinks always work.) That would show their intentions were good and the few people who insist on behaving badly would stop ruining the other passengers' voyages. I feel very badly for the poor crew who are the ones who really lose in a situation like this. They had to work no matter where the ship sailed!