Are onboard mutinies justified?

[sherri3802]

[quote name='freeholdfriends']You are missing the point entirely. Most of the dissent was because of the lack of communication from Carnival and the Captain and his staff. Carnival did nothing to ease the tension and in fact the Captain made sarcastic and infalmmatory remarks to the passengers. I was horrified at the behavior of the rabble rousers and the "lawyer" but I must admit that the Captain bears some of the blame in this mess. It appears as if the Miracle was the odd man out when it came to alternative ports. Other ships went to Key West and Bermuda but the Miracle either couldn't because of the propulsion problem or chose not --either way the cruise was certainly under a cloud agter that. The atmosphere on the ship was terrible and at times frightening.[/quote]

I'm an outsider here, waiting for my first cruise next January(in the sth Pacific) and hope you don't mind me commenting.
If I went on a cruise and we visited absolutely none of the places on the itinerary, I would be very disappointed, it would not be the cruise I was expecting at all BUT I would expect that those in charge of the ship would do their best to avoid dangerous weather, and I have noticed it does warn you at the bottom of each cruise listing that the itinerary can change without notice.
So basically no, the ship should not be liable for compensation.
However, if I owned a ship line where this happened, as a good will gesture, I think I would write to passengers saying I recognised they could be disapppinted by the unavoidable changes and offer them eg 50% off their next cruise.
And the captain needs to keep his cool and be polite. keeping everyone fully informed from the word go would be a must.Violent passengers-that would be another thing and they probably have a lock up room on ships, surely?

There was recently a case here where a ship was caught in a storm and some passengers are looking for compensation and angry the captain didn't do more to avoid the storm,so it looks like the cruise people can't win either way.
Monetary compensation should only be for negligence.
The link below shows a news report on the pacific Sun I think in a storm, not a hurricane-who would really want to head into this intentionally?
[URL]http://www.3news.co.nz/Video/Aussiescallhorrorcruisestorminateacup/tabid/367/articleID/65369/cat/64/Default.aspx#video[/URL]

[LauraAnne30]

Again - I was on this cruise....it was an 8 night 9 day cruise...with only 3 ports being visited. Bascially, only 1/3 of the cruise was in port so, I am really not sure why people were mad. When we want to make sure we get to the ports we book in May or even early June. We like the fact that sometimes you don't go where you were supposed during hurricane season.

Why people thought that they were going to hurt the cruise line by taking the tips away I dont understand. I know you were saying what about obc? To be honest, once those idiots started removing their tips from their accounts why would Carnival grant a credit? I think if the mob would have went about it tackfully - maybe we would have gotten something. I think the obnoxious behavior negated anything positive carnival would have done.

I just think this entire thing is ridiculous and people behaved badly. I think the crew handled the situation the best they could....some people were so confrontational that they could say HI without someone going ballastic. I was there and I saw it.

[LauraAnne30]

Oops forgot -

You need to make the best of the situation and we did we had a great time in the ports we went to....I guess some people see the glass as half full and others see it as half empty.

Was I disappointed??? I guess a little but, not enough to ruin my entire trip.

[CC Help Michell]

[quote name='LauraAnne30']Again - I was on this cruise....it was an 8 night 9 day cruise...with only 3 ports being visited. Bascially, only 1/3 of the cruise was in port so, I am really not sure why people were mad. When we want to make sure we get to the ports we book in May or even early June. We like the fact that sometimes you don't go where you were supposed during hurricane season.

Why people thought that they were going to hurt the cruise line by taking the tips away I dont understand. I know you were saying what about obc? To be honest, once those idiots started removing their tips from their accounts why would Carnival grant a credit? [U][B]I think if the mob would have went about it tackfully[/B][/U] - maybe we would have gotten something. I think the obnoxious behavior negated anything positive carnival would have done.

I just think this entire thing is ridiculous and people behaved badly. I think the crew handled the situation the best they could....some people were so confrontational that they could say HI without someone going ballastic. I was there and I saw it.[/quote]

I think the sentence I highlighted is exactly the heart of the problem here -- a "mob" isn't [U]capable[/U] of acting tactfully, rationally, reasonably, [U]or[/U] safely. That's why the conduct of those who rouse up other people is so dangerous and should meet the strongest response, including being put off the ship. Inciting that kind of mob situation is extremely unpredictable and dangerous -- it's NEVER justified. :(

PS The captain of a cruise ship isn't a "customer service rep." He/She is charged with two jobs: 1) preserving the life and safety of all the souls on board, and 2) preserving the integrity of his ship -- in that order. Some captains are more social, gregarious types (maybe even most are) -- but it is the Cruise Director who is supposed to be the glad-handing customer service type. I don't know if I've read a single word about what the Miracle's CD was doing during all of this. I'm not sure anything they could have done would have helped here, though -- people who actually thought stiffing the crew of this ship was a great plan weren't likely to accept anything reasonable they were offered. :rolleyes:

[B]Even if those folks weren't happy with what was said/offered, though -- turning a mob loose in a confined space like a cruise ship is not "justified," ever.[/B]

[bunymom]

:rolleyes: My Husband and I had gone on a cruise and were not notified when we got to the terminal that there had been an itinerary change. We did not find out until we were in our room. It would have been nice to have been offered the chance to re-schedule. Yes, our Anniversary is in October (which is when we cruise) (Yes, we also know about weather changes). We have been re-routed before, disappointed? yeah. Did we have a great time anyway? Of course.
Are mutinies Justified? No, but it would be nice when you ask questions that you are treated better. I'm sure they get tired of answering the same questions over and over. It might help if the cruise lines give people a chance before they turn over their luggage to make the decision to continue on with the cruise or to re-schedule.
Just my thoughts.

[maureen716]

I do not think anyone has a right to cause a mutiny on any ship unless there lifes are at danger. However I do think the cruise lines should try very hard to give clients what they pay for. In the case of this cruise Port Canaveral would have been a disappointing stop since Disney is an hour away and there really is not much around that port. I guess what I dont understand is the cruise lines knew the hurricane was out there why didnt they go to Bermuda and maybe a port like Baltimore or Newport I sometimes feel the cruise lines take the cheapest way out not what will make the clients happy. They could also have opened the bar for an hour each day to try and make peace.

Maureen

[above sea level cruiser]

I am soooo pissed off that I didn't bother reading the 13 pages of responses to this topic.

If ANYONE were to stage a mutiny on a cruise ship - regardless of what the problem was, they should be identified via their sea pass (or whatever the other lines call it) and banned from cruising ALL lines in the future.

It is absolute bull**** to put crew and other passengers in the middle of a dispute between the onboard staff and the morons involved.

Why are there sooooo many stupid people in America?

[mickeyboy7]

People who act in mobs are like animals. There is no thinking and a lot of shouting. While I can understand the disappointment of a ruined vacation, creating a dangerous scene is not the cure. Why take it out on the poor underpaid staff who are following the corporations instructions?

I will say that it's a shame that there is usually a lack of honest communication between the officers who know what's going on and the customers who aren't in the favored few who are known as the most frequent passengers. Tell us an island is about to be wiped out and we can understand why we should head for another. But in the same manner don't tell me we are heading completely north to a New England beach when we've sailed out of NYC. There must be some better choice. I think too much of this particular decision was more of a fuel saving decision than a life saving one.

But even if I am correct...the time to scream and yell about it is when you get home and let the corporation know about your complaints by writing to them. If you then get no satisfaction,well, like any other business, it's time to check out the competition. ;)

[bplazo]

[quote name='LauraAnne30']Oops forgot -

You need to make the best of the situation and we did we had a great time in the ports we went to....I guess some people see the glass as half full and others see it as half empty.

Was I disappointed??? I guess a little but, not enough to ruin my entire trip.[/QUOTE]

Laura, you have such a good outlook. It is a shame that other did not try to enjoy their cruise. I cruised a couple years ago during a hurricane and we missed a day of our cruise and two port were changed. However, we still had a great time and it was one of our best cruises.

Kudos to you for having a good time despite everything.

[cruisemom42]

[quote name='maureen716'] They could also have opened the bar for an hour each day to try and make peace.

Maureen[/quote]


Yes, a DRUNK and angry mob. That would've been a good idea....:cool:

[GCatlow]

These people have got to get a life. I've never cruised in hurricane season and still occasionally missed ports because of bad weather ...THIS WAS A HURRICANE!!!

[FinelyCruising]

LauraAnne good for you. Could not have been too pleasant or comfortable for you and many others with the crowd creating all that commotion.

[trock]

[quote name='CA27']I hope this clarifies the whole "sucker" controversy. When the captain made one of his announcements, he said, and I'm paraphrasing "If it makes you feel any better, I'll have to deal with a couple of these suckers (hurricanes) on the next cruise". He was referring to the hurricanes that were looming in the horizon (Ike & Josephine).

I was in my cabin when that announcement came on, so I was able to hear it pretty well. In the noisy areas like the Lido deck, you can barely hear the announcements, so maybe some people only heard the word "sucker". Who knows.[/quote]

Thank you for your rational judgement. I could not imagine a Captain stating such a thing.. If he had Carnival would really have to consider his employment.. These Captains have so many years experience i am sure this is not the first time they have dealt with such troublemakers.. Unforturnately people hear what they want to hear.. and we all know how the 'grapevine' works

:)

[luddite]

The mob that took over this ship should have been dealt with. Lockdown would be the first choice.
Had i been aboard, I would have simply reported to the authorities that it looked like they were ill and could they maybe have norovirus? That would have gotten some attention. These boors should be made to pay reparations to the other passengers for disrupting the trip.
Keelhauling isn't legal anywhere that I know of. This should change, I think.
Man, is there anything worse than a whiny New Yorker? A shipfull of 'em. THAT must've been fun.

[LauraAnne30]

I actually hope they are told they can never with the Carnvial Company again....however, then all the other lines get them...I wonder if companies "share notes" so to speak. That way they can identify all these problem children and alert the other lines.....maybe they won't be cruising again. Wouldn't that be nice.:D

[AllyGirl13]

[quote name='LauraAnne30']I actually hope they are told they can never with the Carnvial Company again....however, then all the other lines get them...I wonder if companies "share notes" so to speak. That way they can identify all these problem children and alert the other lines.....maybe they won't be cruising again. Wouldn't that be nice.:D[/quote]


Hey now, we cruise other lines & I for one DO NOT want these type of people on board with me. Been there done that. If you must complain about a cruise vacation you need to get a life. S*%^ happens. It's called life. If your issue cannot be solved - in a peaceful manner - Take it up with someone who can compensate you. The crew members have been diverted JUST LIKE YOU but they still smile & do their jobs. I still think folks that act like spoiled demanding children should be put off at their expense. Just my opinion...... Better yet, make a vacation specifically for them & put them all in one place & let 'em have it out with each other....:p

[trock]

[quote name='luddite']The mob that took over this ship should have been dealt with. Lockdown would be the first choice.
Had i been aboard, I would have simply reported to the authorities that it looked like they were ill and could they maybe have norovirus? That would have gotten some attention. These boors should be made to pay reparations to the other passengers for disrupting the trip.
Keelhauling isn't legal anywhere that I know of. This should change, I think.
Man, is there anything worse than a whiny New Yorker? A shipfull of 'em. THAT must've been fun.[/quote]


Nice -lump all the NY'rs together ...:rolleyes:

Just because the ship sailed out of NY does not mean it was full of NY'rs.. Many of my NY cruisers had lots of foreigners.. (Europeans)
and others from all over the country.. (i have never experienced anything like this and most of the cruisers we have met from all over the world are lovely)

As a NY'r I would have loved to have seen the trouble makers remanded to their cabins or thrown off at the next port... !

[richm.2]

Mutiny implies that the control of the ship was threatened. The Coast Guard and the Navy would respond. People would be arrested. Far from mutiny is the unhappy customer who has the right to complain. Make me unhappy and I will tell you about it. Don't rectify the situation to my satisifaction and I will, after telling you I am going to, withhold tips, leaving your unhappy staff to deal with you. Other than being your victim and sucking it up to experience what's left?

Been on a dozen cruises. Was not on this one.

[dchinski]

I think if they want the port that badly they should all be put in an inflatable and left at sea.

[liz000]

[quote name='dchinski']I think if they want the port that badly they should all be put in an inflatable and left at sea.[/quote]
LOL:D :D

[lovesublime]

I don't think I've ever seen a thread (or threads) that has inspired so many to register and post here for the first time. That goes for both the happy:) and the unhappy:( pax who were on this sailing. It's been entertaining to say the least. I don't even know what to think:confused: Mostly though, it looks like it went both ways. I think I have to give both Carnival and the disgruntled passengers the benefit of the doubt. However, if the captain did indeed call pax 'suckers', then I think he should be reprimanded or dismissed. I'm one who truly believes that the paying consumer is king and I'm a little disheartened to read of what went on. It would be nice to hear from more of the pax who were actually happy with this cruise.

[trock]

[quote name='lovesublime']I don't think I've ever seen a thread (or threads) that has inspired so many to register and post here for the first time. That goes for both the happy:) and the unhappy:( pax who were on this sailing. It's been entertaining to say the least. I don't even know what to think:confused: Mostly though, it looks like it went both ways. I think I have to give both Carnival and the disgruntled passengers the benefit of the doubt. However, if the captain did indeed call pax 'suckers', then I think he should be reprimanded or dismissed. I'm one who truly believes that the paying consumer is king and I'm a little disheartened to read of what went on. It would be nice to hear from more of the pax who were actually happy with this cruise.[/quote]


That was a nice post and I find myself in agreement with you.

Hope you are out of Ike's path.. stay dry...

[NoobCroozer]

I like how all of the problems are due to New Yorkers....funny, last time I checked my roll call, there are plenty from the mid-west flying in to NY to sail the Miracle on the 14th of Sept....:rolleyes:

[Times Prince]

It is amazing that anyone would not be aware of the hurricanes as being the cause of the rerouting - not a need to conserve fuel or any other conjecture. It was on every news channel.

The Captain of the ship is responsible for the safety and well being of all the crew, passengers, and the ship itself. He could have just chosen to sail in circles mid Atlantic and no one would have a right to complain.

Thanks to all those captains who have to make the tough decisions whether to skip, avoid, or otherwise bypass ports for safety's sake.

[LauraAnne30]

FYI - I am NOT complaining....infact - I am going to write about how I enjoyed the cruise.....and I am hoping that they will do something with those that caused the problem!!!!!

Secondly, I know it is NOT all new yorkers BUT, the ship has many who were from new york city itself and they were some one of those causing a lot of problems. There wasa a very rough crowd and we were told they had a "special rate" for those cruising from NYC. Hence, how I deduced it. It's funny we had dinner with a couple from Buffalo and they commented about the New Yorkers on the ship and how rude everyone seemed to be...

Lastly, the on who said that we were complaining and whining....we didn't and if you had to put up with what we had to....you would be writing them as well.