Discipline Aboard HAL Ships

[Down-Unders]

Something's been bothering us aboard our last few HAL cruises, talking with friends who have cruised recently aboard HAL, and reading several of these threads. It's passenger discipline - or the lack of discipline. Perhaps it's the times in which we are living, and the permissiveness that seems pervasive around us. I'm sure this isn't limited to HAL ships, but since we're HAL addicts, we'd like to see at least HAL address it.

 

Take a few examples:

 

1) The norovirus that's been affecting the Zuiderdam in recent cruises. Passengers are reporting that they've seen others not washing their hands when leaving the rest rooms, bypassing the Purell machines, violating quarantine, touching food trays without tongs, etc. (We've seen this ourselves in non-Code-Red environments.) But nowhere do I hear that anyone from HAL is seriously enforcing their own policies. Here's a place where these violations could mean serious illness or even death to an immune-compromised passenger.

 

2) I recently heard from a friend of an incident in a HAL dining room where a passenger (probably inebriated) stood up on a dining table, removed his shirt, and began to dance - and no one from HAL interfered.

 

3) Passengers frequently disobey the dress code in the dining room (and I'm being lenient about "smart" casual!) by wearing shorts, jeans, T-shirts, etc., and being permitted to enter by the several officers in white jackets at the entrance. I know this isn't a big deal compared to some other issues, but it is symbolic of this problem.

 

4) The Presidents' Week fiascoes that are now legend on HAL and reported on this board where young adults run wildly through the ship and cause all sorts of displeasure for the "normal" passengers. Rarely if ever does anyone from HAL do anything about this, despite the effect it has on those folks who try to act reasonably. It's our cruise to enjoy, too!

 

5) We were on a Windstar cruise a few years back (while it was still a HAL line) where a group of inebriated passengers (who were given free alcohol for the trip paid for by their employer) were throwing furniture into the ship's swimming pool while the stewards stood by and did nothing.

 

6) I've seen passengers in the upper level of the Vista Lounge walking down the little tables between the "sofas" rather than walk across to the stairway. Dangerous, especially if there's movement in the ship, but just plain rude even in calm seas!

 

I'm sure many of you can all add to this list.

 

Why does HAL set these rules and then refuse to enforce them? Mind you, I am not suggesting a police state aboard HAL ships; no one wants that. We are on a cruise for fun and to relax. But there are times when rules like those surrounding a norovirus outbreak, or children running wild, or improper behavior in a dining room calls for someone in charge to say and do something.

 

At one point, I thought that it was perhaps the nature of the Indonesian/Filipino crew to avoid getting into a confrontation with a passenger. Maybe that's true. Maybe they're told not to interfere? But remember that passengers who do conform to the expected behavioral norm have paid the same fare as those who don't, and the former should be entitled to a cruise without this kind of unreasonable behavior, especially if there are rules being broken.

 

Is Seattle aware that there are folks out there - hopefully more of us than there are of them - who would like to have a cruise without this kind of behavior and are in fact entitled to it? If that's true, why do they pretend it's not happening and do something about it?

 

I know that this kind of behavior doesn't happen every day, but shouldn't there be some one or some group(s) on board each ship that either (as nicely and politely as possible given the circumstances) enforces the rules? Or why have the rules in the first place?[/quote

 

 

Personally you may be better off staying home!

[Copper10-8]

Ok, so what should passengers do when they experience/notice something dangerous (like kids with heelie sneakers "skating" through the ship at high speed) or just incredibly obnoxious (like drunk adults doing cannonballs and using foul language at the pool)?

 

It's been mentioned that crew members hoping for a tip aren't to be counted on to do anything. Which is fine, as long as there are other crew members who CAN be counted on to intervene.

 

So...who are those crew members? For instance, let's say a "pack" of wild kids is running up and down the halls banging on cabin doors at 3 am. If I only get one phone call, who could I call that has the most likelihood of getting this behavior shut down?

 

Depending on the situation and where on the ship it's occuring, you look for and start with a supervisor and/or a manager and you explain the situation you have observed to him/her and why you think it should be stopped (it's dangerous - it's a liability - usually gets someone's atention!! - and/or it is disturbing your peace). Supervisors have 'shoulder boards' with either a gold 'B' (Bar Dept) or a gold 'H' (with fork - hotel Dept) in a gold triangle. Managers, depending on which Dept. they are assigned to have shoulder boards with gold bars (summer uniform) and gold sleeve bars (winter time)(which Dept. they are assigned to ca be identified through the 'filling' inside the bar(s).

It is an unreasonable expectation to have a dining room steward, an assistant dining room steward, a bar steward and/or a room steward addres the issues described here. It does not necessarily have anything to do with those folks receiving 'tips' after a cruise as much as it does with their job describtion. They are NOT supervisors!

If you don't get any satisfaction from the supv/mngr and if this 'behavior' is ongoing and impacting the enjoyment of your cruise, you go higher up. The GRM or Guest Relations Manager is a good next step. He/she holds regular daily business hours - check your program for them. The Hotel Manager (and not the Captain) is a last resort.

For the example you mentioned, ship's security can be requested via the Front Office but this, just like on terra firma or land, is more in case of 'young ones' (or old ones) 'carrying on' in the hallways late at night, depriving your from your much needed night rest. On land, we call something like that 'disturbing the peace' and it can be a violation of the penal code depending on the severity. On a ship, it's a little different but it still should be acted upon by having the 'young ones' escorted to their cabin(s) and a warning delivered to Mum & Dad (after waking their butts up and/or locating them in a bar) that the behavior their offspring is exhibiting is unacceptable.

Skating on wheelies in the dining room, the CN dance floor and other selected places should not be allowed and neither should running at full speed

Couple more points:

1. The aft (Sea View) pool is not automatically an 'adults only' pool

2. Rules of behavior are posted on signs at both pools - No Running, Jumping or Pushing - Children under 14 require adult supervision - Absolutely no diving

3. HAL does not employ lifeguards and there is no one assigned to 'watch' the pool - those facts are also posted on the same sign! If you have 'guests of all ages' doing cannon balls and belly flops to the point where it affects the pool enjoyment of other guests, go get an officer, preferably point the behavior out and respectfully request that something be done about it. Now, don't go all postal on the officer because you're frustrated, angry, upset, what have you - it might just have an adverse effect!

4. Telling an officer about what you saw and how it affected you is nice but won't do anything to provide a permanent solution unless you can point out the 'culprits' of your missery. The so-called 'offenders' have to be identified. If they're juvies, that's the only way Mum & Dad can be warned and advised. If they're adults (and yes, adults can most definitely misbehave and far worse than the kiddies), they can be read the riot act right then and there!

5. Yes, the times, they are a changing, and so is the behavior and respect of certain 'nice folks' - I see it in my job after almost 29 years and I have seen it on ships as an uninvolved passenger/bystander. I don't envy the ship's staff at times!

6. I will not be touching dress code violators with a ten foot pole here:cool:

[pipedreams62]

[cruzincurt]

The parents seemed always to be in another world as if they were wearing both blinders and ear plugs.

 

Actually, they do tune them out because they are so galvanized to the kiddos actions it doesn't affect them anymore. Just witness a mother in a store with two screaming kiddos, she tunes them right out. Those of us that do not spend our normal days anywhere around children are easily affected by what some would say was "just kiddos burning" off their energy. My question would be why do they have energy to burn off at 2:00 am in the morning?

 

The natural response from people with children is "how about those drunk adults?" as if that's a valid excuse for kiddos actions.

 

Bad manners and behavior are not acceptable at any age.

[Jen&Joe]

2 years ago on the Zuiderdam we saw an officer ask a passenger to go and change when they arrived in the dining room (on a formal night) in shorts and a button down shirt. I also had a passenger throw a cigarette butt down onto our verandah (we were in an aft cabin). It landed on me while I was laying out there. We called the front desk and they sent several officers and the security manager to investigate.

[norcal2]

norcal, on Maasdam this month we had a family with either four or five children (it seemed like a dozen!) who allowed them to 'skate' all over the ship on those wheelies. Through the Lido, the Crow's Nest dance floor, you name it. They were in Crow's Nest and 11 PM horning in on kareoke and singing such kid friendly songs as 'stick it to me, stick it to me one more time' while the proud parents sat in the bar. The dove in both pools (isn't one supposed to be adult?), ran up and down the halls (they were on our deck) and stole door signs.

The parents seemed always to be in another world as if they were wearing both blinders and ear plugs.

 

It's a wonder someone was not seriously injured by the little darlings skating very fast through some of these areas. They certainly never looked where they were going.

 

On the other hand there were a couple of very well behaved children onboard who were a joy.

 

In times past you could gauge when to cruise by the school holidays and avoid children. Now, because there is so much home schooling (and in Georgia you can home school without even a high school education:eek:) the little darlings can be onboard anytime and pretend it's education!:rolleyes:

 

I'm not anti-children cruising but I am anti-children cruising who have no true 'parents'. The ones I object to are the ones who rule the roost in their families and the parents say nothing! Of course maybe karma will get them in the end because, contrary to what they think, once they become of age the world is not going to put up with their behavior!

 

Hopefully that will never be the norm. I can't even imagine any line wanting the liability of allowing those shoe skates on a ship at sea. That is scary just thinking about potentials.

 

I have been on cruises where one or two kids got a little too carried away but by and large most of the children and adults have been a pleasure. I think I'd be oiling the wheels on the family you described though! :D Some of the stories of individual families I've read here shows how one group can overshadow all the great families we all see on every trip.

[Q.E.D.]

Personally you may be better off staying home!

 

1) Learn how to parse quotes; and

 

2) If you see nothing wrong with these examples of obnoxious behavior, maybe it's you that wouldn't be comfortable on a HAL cruise. :D

[Voireon]

A word of advice to many people on this board:

 

Do not ever ever ever take a disney cruise.

 

Do not ever ever take a carnival cruise

 

Do not ever take a royal caribbean cruise.

 

lol.

[innlady1]

 

I'm with you, Pipedreams! ;)

[pluisje]

It is not up to he Indonesian and/or

Filipino

crew to point passengers at heir impolite behaviour.

If you

don't

like the dress code, dine in the Lido or book a cruise on a floating

McDonald's

, you know what I mean.

 

As a European, I am sad to say that I met people on board that had more money then manners.

The crew just looks on when hey make a fool of themselves he way hey behave and

don't go

according

to the

dress-code

.

In my opinion,

heyshold

be turned away from he

dining

room.

We

always

booked HA for heir class and elegance but am afraid they are going down from 5 to 4 and now maybe 3 stars.

[pluisje]

It is not up to the Indonesian and/or Filipino crew to point passengers at heir impolite behaviour.

If you don't like the dress code, dine in the Lido or book a cruise on a floating McDonald's, you know what I mean.

 

As a European, I am sad to say that I met people on board that had more money then manners.

The crew just looks on when they make a fool of themselves the way they behave and don't go according to the dress-code.

In my opinion, they should be turned away from he dining room.

We always booked HAL for their class and elegance but am afraid they are going down from 5 to 4 and now maybe 3 stars.

[happy cruzer]

There is a risk of bad behavior any time you are in a group environment at sea or on land. Each individual needs to determine how they will deal with it. If you want a guarantee, you will need to stay in a very controlled environment like your home.

 

The cruiselines do a fairly good job, but if the offenders are numerous enough they typically roll with the flow (of money that is). Years ago, I was on a Celebrity cruise that had serious sanitation and security problems caused by a large group. The crew did very little just sorta waited for the group to get of the ship.

 

I personally just appraise the risk of this behavior happening on any particular cruise and deal with it. I don't expect a guarantee of no problems from the cruiseline that is in the vacation business.

 

I liked copper's contrustive suggestions on how and what can be done. Thanks!

[Q.E.D.]

If you want a guarantee, you will need to stay in a very controlled environment like your home...expect a guarantee of no problems

I don't see where anyone was "expecting a guarantee of no problems". The question being asked here is "what is the best way to get serious problems addressed". :p Looks like the answer is to contact a ship's officer and not count on non-officer crewmembers to do anything. Works for me.

[babyher]

I agree that the parents should be castigated, but it is too late for that. Oh, you said CASTIGATED!:(

 

 

 

I say castigate the parents , this way they can't have any more kids *LOL*

[Bobed1927]

On a recent cruise I pointed out to a deck hand several lounges which had folded towels on them but no one had used the lounges for a least an hour. I asked him why they didn't pick up the towels so that other passengers would not be reluctant to use them. He told me that one deck hand had been fired because a passenger had complained about him. He was not at fault but it was the passenger's word against him so he was fired.

[m steve]

Your computer has a problem dropping T at the beginning of a word. I have the same thing with M.

I agree about poor manners and those who love to flaunt the rules.

Most kids I see on board are fairly well behaved with the exception of:

PUSHING ELEVATOR BUTTONS

NOISY AT POOL

RUNNING IN HALLWAYS

Difficult adults seem to:

BLOCK ENTRY AND EXIT FROM ELEVATORS

SAVE LOUNGES AT THE POOL

THINK JEANS ARE FORMAL WEAR IF THE SHIRT HAS A SLEEVE

[kalliekae]

Most passengers, most of the time, behave themselves.

 

We agree with you. We have never seen the type of behavior as described by the OP. One reason we prefer HAL is the passengers. Yes, we have seen the occasional rude passenger who cuts in front of you at the elevators, but one can find that anywhere. We are very surprised to hear of the other incidents.

[Down-Unders]

1) Learn how to parse quotes; and

 

2) If you see nothing wrong with these examples of obnoxious behavior, maybe it's you that wouldn't be comfortable on a HAL cruise. :D

 

 

Personally I think you should stay home with the OP! :):)

[DizzyDallasDi]

I say castigate the parents , this way they can't have any more kids *LOL*

 

Castigating people will not prevent them from propagating. However, castration will. :D

 

Diane

[sail7seas]

It is not up to the Indonesian and/or Filipino crew to point passengers at heir impolite behaviour.

If you don't like the dress code, dine in the Lido or book a cruise on a floating McDonald's, you know what I mean.

 

As a European, I am sad to say that I met people on board that had more money then manners.

The crew just looks on when they make a fool of themselves the way they behave and don't go according to the dress-code.

In my opinion, they should be turned away from he dining room.

We always booked HAL for their class and elegance but am afraid they are going down from 5 to 4 and now maybe 3 stars.

 

Are we sure only Americans/North Americans are the people with more money than manners? :confused:

 

How do we know that? :confused:

[Down-Unders]

We agree with you. We have never seen the type of behavior as described by the OP. One reason we prefer HAL is the passengers. Yes, we have seen the occasional rude passenger who cuts in front of you at the elevators, but one can find that anywhere. We are very surprised to hear of the other incidents.

 

Totally agree, we have sailed on many cruise lines and of course you will find people who look for faults, they appear not to be happy souls and would like the rest of the world to join them in their narrow little world.

[navybankerteacher]

Totally agree, we have sailed on many cruise lines and of course you will find people who look for faults, they appear not to be happy souls and would like the rest of the world to join them in their narrow little world.

 

I believe the point is that people who do not "play by the rules" should be made aware, one way or the other, that their conduct is not appropriate and should be modified.

 

If a passenger is denied the vacation experience he/she has paid for by other passengers who disregard the dress code or otherwise ignore the norms of civilized behavior, and accordingly expresses annoyance; it is not appropriate to write him/her off as an "unhappy soul" living in a "narrow little world".

 

It appears that you are siding with the selfish few who disregard the rules of civility in favor of those who are being imposed upon.

[Mary Ellen]

The point that some of us have been trying to make is that HAL isn't enforcing their own rules about passenger behavior. Yes, there is a chance that rude, inconsiderate passengers (of any age, nationality, whatever ) on board. What I'd like to see HAL do, is enforce their own rules.

[navybankerteacher]

The point that some of us have been trying to make is that HAL isn't enforcing their own rules about passenger behavior. Yes, there is a chance that rude, inconsiderate passengers (of any age, nationality, whatever ) on board. What I'd like to see HAL do, is enforce their own rules.

 

Seconded.

[Q.E.D.]

The point that some of us have been trying to make is that HAL isn't enforcing their own rules about passenger behavior. Yes, there is a chance that rude, inconsiderate passengers (of any age, nationality, whatever ) on board. What I'd like to see HAL do, is enforce their own rules.

Thirded.