Smoking policy

[greeneg]

Exactly correct. John, unfortunately is trying to make the point that he isn't responsible for his actions because of his addiction, he isn't hurting anyone else, the problem for others has been wildly overstated, and wouldn't the rest of us please just cut him some slack.

 

Sorry John, as another physician, AND a 3 pack a day smoker who successfully quit seventeen years ago, I hear the echoes of my own past thinking and rationalizations. Been there, done that, and yes, I do have the tee shirt!

 

Friscorays is absolutely correct that bad information simply cannot be allowed to go unchallenged, given the overwhelming weight of scientific information which shows it to be bad information. The state of the atmosphere, industrial pollution, and the other things that you bring up have nothing to do with the problems that your smoking creates for others. I hate to classify you as a "public menace", but in fact you are just that. Your exhaust gasses are just as harmful as Big Stinker Black Smoker Projecting Power Plant Company's; the only difference is the magnitude. And the fact that you can do something about yours.

 

I will tell you this much: if I was able to successfully quit seventeen years ago, then anyone can do it. It ultimately a question of determination and commitment; but the first step is to stop kidding yourself and realizing what you are doing to yourself and those around you. If you can deny yourself one cigarette for one minute, and then just keep the process going, you can do it. Anyone can, it's all about commitment.

 

IF you do decide to quit, I'll be the first one to buy you a round when you succeed.

 

And no, John, we are not going to cut you any slack.

[Friscorays]

Frisco...Who makes these "estimates" ? Most likely some anti-smoking organization..right?

 

FYI...I quit 10 years ago after smoking for thirty years...Hope it was in time! I am not advocating smoking anywhere and everywhereand anytime one wants but I think restrictions have gone way over the top.

For the life of me I can't understand how someone smoking on a balcony with a ship cruising at 15 knots can effect anyone,

 

 

 

On principle,I object to government telling owners of bars and restaurants that they cannot allow smoking in their establishment,if they so desire.

No one is forcing non-smokers to visit these smoking enclaves.

 

BTW..How many patients have you had pass away where YOU can directly attribute it to second hand smoke?

 

I believe that the estimates come from the Center for Disease Control Morbidity and Mortality data: "The MMWR weekly contains data on specific diseases as reported by state and territorial health departments and reports on infectious and chronic diseases, environmental hazards, natural or human-generated disasters, occupational diseases and injuries, and intentional and unintentional injuries." Perhaps all the data is a government conspiracy, but four years of medical school and fifteen years as a practicing physician make me kind of doubt it. As I am not a biostatistician, I really am not qualified to discuss in any detail how these sort of estimates are made. Maybe someone else can chime in.

Regarding your second paragraph, if the person on the next balcony over can smell cigarette smoke, they are inhaling it and are thus at risk of personal injury which is what my above posts were meant to convey. It seems quite clear to me that cigarette smoke contains carcinogens, whether the smoke comes from a cigarette that one is smoking or a cigarette from a person next to one does not matter.

The bars and restaurants paragraph seems like a complete distractor argument / discussion so I won't address that.

Exact numbers based on my personal experience? Hard to say. There are lots of different types of lung cancer. The majority are attributable to smoking but a minority are not. I would say that any adult non-smoker with an adencarcinoma or squamous cell carcinoma could potentially have developed it as the result of second hand smoke. For example, remember Dana Reeves:

http://www.usatoday.com/life/people/2005-08-09-reeve-cancer-cover_x.htm

"Passive smoking causes about one-quarter of lung cancers among non-smokers, says Margaret Spitz, chairwoman of epidemiology at Houston's M.D. Anderson Cancer Center."

[RANTHEMAN]

Exact numbers based on my personal experience? Hard to say

 

My point exactly,Frisco..Even you,a front line medical professional, cannot make a concrete connection between lung cancer and secondhand smoke.

Thus,the estimates that you originally quoted have little validity.They are just guesses by some anti smoking organization.

Your reference to Dana Reeves is also a red herring. At least in that report, there is no connection to secondhand smoke.

Don't get me wrong.I believe that smoking will kill most people.But to suggest that a whiff of smoke on a cruise ship's balcony is a concern is more hysteria than fact.

 

Smoke free..10 years and counting!!

Cheers

[greeneg]

Exact numbers based on my personal experience? Hard to say

 

My point exactly,Frisco..Even you,a front line medical professional, cannot make a concrete connection between lung cancer and secondhand smoke.

Thus,the estimates that you originally quoted have little validity.They are just guesses by some anti smoking organization.

Your reference to Dana Reeves is also a red herring. At least in that report, there is no connection to secondhand smoke.

Don't get me wrong.I believe that smoking will kill most people.But to suggest that a whiff of smoke on a cruise ship's balcony is a concern is more hysteria than fact.

 

Smoke free..10 years and counting!!

Cheers

 

Wrong, totally wrong. Just plain wrong..........not just my professional opinion, but a total rejection of the informed conclusions of just about every knowledgeable Medical Authority in the World. Do the research friend, the data are readily available from numerous sources. You may choose to advocate any concoction that you can come up with, but your interpretation of the generally accepted facts is in total contravention of the rational conclusions of everyone else. I submit that when you are in that much of a minority, you might want to re-examine your position.

[Friscorays]

Don't get me wrong.I believe that smoking will kill most people.But to suggest that a whiff of smoke on a cruise ship's balcony is a concern is more hysteria than fact.

 

Smoke free..10 years and counting!!

Cheers

 

We will have to agree to disagree.

 

I have shared my qualifications for discussing medical issues: an MD degree and a fairly long career as a practicing Physician. Perhaps those who are not convinced by the research into the harm caused by secondand smoke would be kind enough to share their qualifications for discussing medical issues (beyond a long personal history of smoking).

 

I'll leave it for readers of this thread to review all its posts and the associated links and come up with their own conclusions. I think those with some common sense will find the issue fairly clear. How long was it that the cigarette companies argued to anyone that would listen that smoking was not harmful (even when they had internal data to show otherwise). Decades at least....

 

I'll leave those smokers with no apparent concern about exposing others to their secondhand smoke with a question. Let us imagine that a person has decided to end their life by jumping off a building onto a busy street below. Should that person look down before they jump to make sure that they are not about to kill innocent bystanders on their trip down or should the person just jump? In the end, the jumper's decision does not make any difference to the jumper but it makes a lot of difference to those below.

 

I'll have to add smoking threads to the list of threads not to get involved with on Cruise Critic (along with tipping, dress codes and "chair hogs"). There always seems to be a small percentage of people willing to defend just about any form of bad behavior as long as it benefits them or justifies how they themselves lead their lives.

[RANTHEMAN]

Uncle!!

[gillianrose]

I'm surprised Princess still allows it (for reasons other than smoking that I do not care to re-hash), but their policy says they do.

 

I haven't checked lately, but about a month ago I was told by someone who works for Princess that there may be a favorable change regarding smoking (meaning much less of it) in the near future. I will, however, believe it only when I read about it on some forum other than Princess. :)

 

We stopped cruising Princess because of the lack of smoking restrictions onboard, same reason we haven't cruised on HAL recently, either.

[Susan-M]

I haven't checked lately, but about a month ago I was told by someone who works for Princess that there may be a favorable change regarding smoking (meaning much less of it) in the near future. I will, however, believe it only when I read about it on some forum other than Princess. :)

 

I couldn't find a 'smoking policy' on Princess' web site ... I think it's the first cruise line web site that I've checked and haven't seen details on it. Our choice of cruise lines has become very limited since being spoiled by Azamara's restrictive policy.

[LHT28]

I couldn't find a 'smoking policy' on Princess' web site ... .

 

Not easy to find

 

Smoking is not allowed in the dining rooms, or any other food service area, or in the show lounges and theaters. Smoking is permitted in staterooms, stateroom balconies, and designated areas. As a courtesy to your fellow passengers, please refrain from smoking pipes and cigars in all public rooms.

 

http://www.princess.com/learn/answer/before_you_leave/care.jsp

[greeneg]

LHT28 is exactly correct. We did not book a cruise with Princess that we wanted to because of the smoking policy although good friends with whom we had cruised before were going. We did our Winter Cruise on the Connie.

 

Smoking Policy is a make it or break it issue for me.

[gillianrose]

We did not book a cruise with Princess that we wanted to because of the smoking policy although good friends with whom we had cruised before were going. We did our Winter Cruise on the Connie.

 

Smoking Policy is a make it or break it issue for me.

 

Same for us and our friends. Princess and HAL have some interesting itineraries that we won't book due to their lax smoking policies.