Tipping--Just Off Connie and How We Fought It & Feel This is Right

[FinelyCruising]

To that guy who wants to know why there are those of us that are "amped up about $1.25 per day" well it isn 't $l.25 per day. It is $l.25 per day per person = $25 and like the Cruising Chick, I also get treated well in the Martini Bar and I would rather tip him the $25 for taking care of me for l0 days then put $25 to pay for tips for people I don't know. Cruising Chick - I still think you should come on our March 6 Caribbean cruise.

 

To the person who is worried about the servers in the buffet area not getting tipped - they are waiters and asst. waiters that work all different shifts. All the waiters in the main dining room work the breakfast shift and lunch shift in the buffet areas so in the end they all get tipped by us.

 

Girl....girl.... who thinks 'amped up'. Yes I know its per person. But no one here still has any solid information on who they are getting all riled over for this amount. And yes, everyone loves their martini bar server.;)

 

Seems kinda silly to me to take such a hard line unless you know exactly who these others are that you are adamantly opposed to tipping. Don't you think?

 

Or are the masses just opposed to the extra $25 no matter who it is.:eek:

[Veronica13]

To that guy who wants to know why there are those of us that are "amped up about $1.25 per day" well it isn 't $l.25 per day. It is $l.25 per day per person = $25 and like the Cruising Chick, I also get treated well in the Martini Bar and I would rather tip him the $25 for taking care of me for l0 days then put $25 to pay for tips for people I don't know. Cruising Chick - I still think you should come on our March 6 Caribbean cruise.

 

To the person who is worried about the servers in the buffet area not getting tipped - they are waiters and asst. waiters that work all different shifts. All the waiters in the main dining room work the breakfast shift and lunch shift in the buffet areas so in the end they all get tipped by us.

 

You are aware you are already heavily tipping for each alcoholic drink, yes? It too, it "built in". Although I will $20 them a couple times during the cruise for special attention.

 

This is becoming a silly thread. All the facts are out and all opinions have been flushed out. It is what it is. I still "get" Moondoggie's point entirely, and agree, but accept the "mob" mentality will always prevail on these boards and relinquish all further comments to the masses. Go Moondoggie!

[mardon]

Veronica - that's me! I am cruising on that last stimulus check that we got.

 

we are helping the economy.

[Veronica13]

Girl....girl.... who thinks 'amped up'. Yes I know its per person. But no one here still has any solid information on who they are getting all riled over for this amount. And yes, everyone loves their martini bar server.;)

 

Seems kinda silly to me to take such a hard line unless you know exactly who these others are that you are adamantly opposed to tipping. Don't you think?

 

Or are the masses just opposed to the extra $25 no matter who it is.:eek:

 

Wow, that's creepy. We were typing nearly identical posts at the same time. My mother never told me I had a twin!!

[Veronica13]

Veronica - that's me! I am cruising on that last stimulus check that we got.

 

we are helping the economy.

 

Well, "they" do say that we're "hoarding" our money now and making the economy worse. However, will they pay our mortgages when our savings have been spent "stimulating"...oops, think I just highjacked the thread.

[mardon]

we are very close with a few of the crew members - we email each week. They DO NOT POOL their tips! They would rather get the cash. Takes too long for the ship to deposit their tips into their accounts. Shame on Celebrity for only paying their crew members $50 a month. SHAME! SHAME! And I can't stand it when the matre ds move the crew members along when they catch them talking to the passengers. These crew members are away from home for long periods of time and they miss their families and they WANT YOU to ask about their families. If you do, you will see them pull out pictures of their kids, wrinkled pictures that they carry on them in their left breast pocket nearest their heart. Anyway, we cruise in March so I guess we will have to do the auto tipping. I am a fighter but don't want to spend any unecessarty time at the Guest Relations fighting and getting myself upset.

[Veronica13]

we are very close with a few of the crew members - we email each week. They DO NOT POOL their tips! They would rather get the cash. Takes too long for the ship to deposit their tips into their accounts. Shame on Celebrity for only paying their crew members $50 a month. SHAME! SHAME! And I can't stand it when the matre ds move the crew members along when they catch them talking to the passengers. These crew members are away from home for long periods of time and they miss their families and they WANT YOU to ask about their families. If you do, you will see them pull out pictures of their kids, wrinkled pictures that they carry on them in their left breast pocket nearest their heart. Anyway, we cruise in March so I guess we will have to do the auto tipping. I am a fighter but don't want to spend any unecessarty time at the Guest Relations fighting and getting myself upset.

 

Totally agree with every word. It IS a shame. Glad you are still able to get e-mails through to your old crew buddies.

[dkjretired]

Hmmmm. We haven't cruised since Jan/08 but 1/2 tipping for kids was the case then. Een tho' I think they should be charge dull. Kids sleep in beds, eat, etc. too!

 

Correct, that had always been Celebrity's policy, 1/2 for kids as 3rd or 4ths. in the room. I believe it has been changed as of last year. There were a lot of threads over the years about that policy.

[dkjretired]

I am not sure how many employees pay US Income Taxes but for the past decade or so the IRS has a system of estimating income on those who receive tips for their incomes. They would then be responsible for paying taxes on those extimates or however the process works. This makes stiffing someone even worse for the employee and may be a partial reason why they went to automatic tipping....

[mardon]

Agabbymama - they DO NOT pool their tips. "If you opt out of the auto tip (fee, gratuity, whatever you wish to call it), there is a listing that goes to the staff reflecting that. If you give them a cash tip, they have to put it in the pool. If the pool says $3.50 per day and you give them $3.50 per day, they still have to add it to the pool. If you give them $5.00 per day, the $3.50 would go in the pool and the $1.50 is for them to keep." NOT TRUE!

 

AND Floris - if you have been reading the posts you would see that those just getting off the Connie had problems when opting to drop the auto tips. The system DID NOT allow them to opt out.

[Veronica13]

I am not sure how many employees pay US Income Taxes but for the past decade or so the IRS has a system of estimating income on those who receive tips for their incomes. They would then be responsible for paying taxes on those extimates or however the process works. This makes stiffing someone even worse for the employee and may be a partial reason why they went to automatic tipping....

 

I suppose it's possible Don, but I've never met a US citizen that was member of "crew". When you ask someone where they're from, I hear many, many countries, never a state. I've always presumed it's because US citizens are too spoiled to work that hard for less than their state's minimum wage.

[woodofpine]

To that guy who wants to know why there are those of us that are "amped up about $1.25 per day" well it isn 't $l.25 per day. It is $l.25 per day per person = $25 and like the Cruising Chick, I also get treated well in the Martini Bar and I would rather tip him the $25 for taking care of me for l0 days then put $25 to pay for tips for people I don't know.

 

$25 for 2 pax on a 10 day cruise. Since your 2 fares for this cruise most likely exceed $3,000 and your suggested gratuities for 2 - including the $1.25 - are what? $250, yep I'll still consider $25 (<1% with total gratuities <10%) to much ado about (nearly) nothing, yah it IS $1.25 per day.

[Susan-M]

Fight this system along with us--and perhaps C will get the message.

 

I think that C already has the right message...that too many people were shortchanging the staff when it came to tipping. I congratulate them on their new policy of auto-tipping.:)

[nevernever]

I cannot remember the name of the cruise line, but the CD on the E-W Constellation transatlantic cruise last year mentioned that an American cruise line that travelled mainly between the west coast and Hawaii had reduced their fleet from three ships to one. The reason given for this was that the company had a policy of employing only U.S. crew, and had been unable to attract sufficient crew at the pay rates offered.

 

Nevernever

[Jeka]

But you are doing each and every time you order a drink!!!

 

But how much do you tip the person who delivers your luggage, or the stateroom attendent's assistant who vacs your cabin? My guess is absolutely nothing.

[Jeka]

i cannot remember the name of the cruise line, but the cd on the e-w constellation transatlantic cruise last year mentioned that an american cruise line that travelled mainly between the west coast and hawaii had reduced their fleet from three ships to one. The reason given for this was that the company had a policy of employing only u.s. Crew, and had been unable to attract sufficient crew at the pay rates offered.

 

Nevernever

 

ncl

[paulred]

Really folks, enough is enough. Do so few people bother to see the whole picture?

 

Everyone who works for the cruiselines get paid by the passengers, in one way or another. From the Chairman of the Board, to all those behind the scenes folk who provision the ship, to every crew member, each makes their living from the income of the company. None of us ever obsesses about how much the executives get out of our cruise fare. No one worrries that some young lady doing the dinner seating and scheduling is paid from our fare, even though we have never seen her in action, and never know what she/he has done to further our enjoyment.

 

The cruise lines have a difficult employment environment. When paying wages and salaries, they have different tax regimes to take into account. For example, workers at their US based offices are subject to federal and state witholding tax, at a rate set by the state where they are located. Other employees, in other cities or countries will have diffent tax responsibilities.

 

Shipboard employees have different rules. There is no such thing as being a resident of the ship. By international tax law, everyone has to have at least one legal country of residence. These employees, legally, are residents of many countries. It may be their birthplace, the place where there families are, or the country where the ship is registered in.

 

It is almost impossible for the cruise lines to determine tax policies for such a broad group, and, if they could, would cost money that would be added to their expenses, and figured into their cost base.

 

One thing is common in almost every tax code. Tips and similar income are reportable and taxable in the hands of the recipient. They are not subject to withholding tax by the person who is paying them. ( Do you really want to fill out a tax form every time you give someone a tip, and send 25% of the tip off to some government ?)

 

This is why most cruise lines have a tipping policy as a cornerstone of their wage administration. The lines that do not allow tips are much more expensive than the main line cruise companies, and part of that extra cost goes to paying accountants to figure this out.

 

The auto tipping really is all about making sure the employees don't get stiffed. They really can stop worrying about being stiffed by a few, and give their best service to all.

 

I you don't worry about what the deckhand who never smiles at you when you spot him on deck gets paid, why do you worry about some maitre D' who never smiles, but does his job efficiently. Do you bother to figure out how much to pay each entertainer, and maybe stiff the ones who didn't make you laugh?

 

Auto tipping is fair. Anything less is churlish. Tipping above the recommended rate is generositiy. and should be applauded. Tipping way above the rate is showing off!

 

That's my story and I am sticking to it.

 

Paul

 

(P.S. In another life I was an International Tax auditor, so I know a thing or three about tax treaties)

[Amerie]

I think that C already has the right message...that too many people were shortchanging the staff when it came to tipping. I congratulate them on their new policy of auto-tipping.:)

 

I agree, and fully support the move to auto-tipping, to ensure that the staff are receiving adequate remuneration for the wonderful service that they provide.

 

Like many others, I too wish that the tips could be included in the fare as part of the cost of sailing, and I don't for a minute believe that this format would be a deterrent to the terrific level of on-board service that Celebrity has been known for. However, I understand the issues that prevent such a pricing structure at present. (These factors have been identified on these tipping threads many times.)

 

In the meantime, I applaud Celebrity for protecting their staff from those cruisers that find all kinds of reasons to save money by shorting the gratuities paid to the staff. I have never, ever had service on Celebrity that was less than acceptable, and 95% of the time service has greatly exceeded "an acceptable standard" everywhere on the ship.

 

I just wonder why people who are SO agitated by the $1.25/pp charge, or the gratuity for the Assistant Maitre 'd, think that Celebrity is incapable of determining which of their staff should be salaried and which should share in the gratuities, and what the level of those gratuities should reasonably be. This level of financial management is well within their scope and expertise, and is nothing that I need to worry about. The list of suggested gratuities seems reasonable to me, and I am fine with auto-tipping, and providing extra cash enclosed in thank you cards to any staff that have provided me with extra service.

 

Last year, one of Summit's former Food and Beverage Managers (rdelpappa) posted on these threads, and gave us some great information about how things are done on Celebrity ships.

 

For instance, he told us that while "waiters [from the dining room] would rotate weekly working in the Buffet during breakfast and lunch"..."other F&B Staff had higher monthly stipends ($700/month) such as the Snack Stewards - also known as Buffet Attendants (they wore the Green Aprons/Green Hats in the Buffet). These individuals had a goal of working hard and getting positive guest comments, as well as good Management Evaluations in order to move on to the next step, which is Asst Waiter..."

 

So, Celebrity provides additional compensation to those service personel who do not share fully in the gratuities, and some of the staff that we never come in contact with are on salary only. The formula for salaries vs. stipends plus gratuities is decided by Celebrity, based on information that we passengers just do not have. But one thing is abundantly clear....given the current pricing stucture of "low fares supplemented by gratuities", we, as passengers, are letting the service staff down when we do not contribute the gratuities at the levels suggested. Most of us who frequent these boards are now aware that tips provide 98% of the salary for waiters and cabin stewards. This % is based on the stipend of $50 per month plus tips providing monthly compensation of approximately $3000 for waiters and cabin stewards.

 

The following information comes from former Summit Food and Beverage Manager rdelpappa:

 

"My best guess from working with them and having personal conversations with them during off time is that they make about $3000/month.

 

Waiter's have a monthly stipend of approximately $50. They get paid bi-monthly in USD (cash), and then can have the cash direct-deposited into their bank accounts, or wired to specific persons.

 

Celebrity pays for all hotel/travel arrangements to and from the ship (some cruise lines do not). Prior to be hired, the individual must pay for their Pre-Employment Physical, which ran me about $200 (in my home city of Miami).

 

Food and accommodation is included. I am not too sure about their uniforms.

 

As far as expenditures once on board, it was virtually nil. Internet Cards were $30, pre-paid, and gave us a lot of time - something to the effect of $0.08/minute... the $20 card gave you $0.12/minute... Calling Cards were $10... not sure how much time would be on it as I had my Blackberry Pearl (AT&T) with me on board...

 

A drink at the crew bar would run $1/beer and $2/mixed drink. Bottled water ran $1, as well as Red Bulls, Gatorade, and snacks."

 

"As far as hours are concerned, Celebrity has a ZERO TOLERANCE Policy on overtime hours - this included line staff and Management.... even though we ALL had a monthly Salary, we ALL (Captain on down to Dishwasher) had to keep Time Cards. Time Cards would be checked daily to ensure we were not working more than 12 hours/day..."

 

Please remember that the estimated remuneration of $3000 per month is for 30 x 12 hour days, or 84 hours per week. It also does not take into account what is lost when passengers do not contribute the suggested gratuities. And the figure of $3000 per month is not a net figure, as can be determined by rdelpappa's comments. How much money would they have to pay you to leave your family for 9 months of the year?

 

You can try to justify holding back tips all you want to, but unless you really have had very bad service, please face the fact that when you do not tip someone who is on the suggested list, you are depriving that person of part of their fair wages, whether you see that person frequently or not. If you genuinely do not understand how gratuities factor into the system of remuneration, please ask your questions on this board. There are many people who will be able to help you understand the important role played by those suggested gratuities.

 

If you really need to hand something directly to the people who have taken such good care of you, please think about writing a note of gratitude and include it with an a "Attention to Detail" card that can be obtained from Guest Relations". Of course, a little extra cash is never amiss, if you feel that the service warranted it. And don't forget to fill out the Guest Questionnaires that are provided at the end of the cruise. They are taken very seriously by Celebrity.

 

From rdelpappa:

 

"The Attention to Detail cards are also a great resource to commend good and exceptional service, or even "little" things that a crew member may do... these cards are internally on the ship and do not go to shore side offices. The Guest Questionnaire (Comment Cards) are sealed and taken to the Miami Office, scanned via a Scan-tron Machine to generate the scores, and then any additional comments are hand typed via the Data Entry staff. A report is then generated and sent to each respective department on board the ship.

[swigso]

I am from the Uk and have read this thread with interest and would like to add my comments. The post by Amerie was very enlightening and I think just enforces what most already knew.

What I cannot understand is that the most vocificus objections to the auto tipping are coming from those whose service culture is based on tipping.

As a Brit the auto tipping is a blessing, I don't have to worry that I must be in the dining room on the last night, It is amazing how many don't turn up-have to pack being =the most used excuse when you bump into someone later.

I konow that the people who make my cruise vacation wonderful are getting rewarded for providing the top class service which make Celebrity such a great vacation choice.

I cannot understand why anyone would want to reduce or stop the charge but it is very interesting that those who shout loudest about the auto tip policy are also the ones who insist it is because they want to tip more to those that they feel give them the best service, well give them a bit more any way.The other recipients of the gratuity are also working very hard t make your cruise special it may be that they don't have the oportunity to, as we say in the Uk, doff their cap.

Its a cost of cruising pay up and enjoy.

[uktog]

Just to be clear from my previous post, I will happily carry on with paying the service chanrge up front and having it included in the holiday cost as we have done since our second cruise. I do not notice the cost in the overall scheme of things - I think the point many are making, it is a very small % of the overall cost. Personally I would rather that this inclusion in the price was the standard approach and if someone has an issue about an element of service, rather than go and work round to having the charge reduced, use other existing mechanisms (attention to detail cards or notes to the Hotel Director) to highlight the issue. That way, the officers know exactly what the problem is and can address it.

Where I get service above the call of duty I will give a small additional sum at the end of the trip to the individual but will also use the attention to detail cards to ensure the officers know where they have a good employee who is delivering something special.

I do agree that the "other personnel" charge needs a little more explanation - I think I know how it is distributed but we need an official (not crew) version. I haver found some crew have told me different tales and when I have found them to be incorrect I have wondered if they were playing a card to get me to give them more but I have given them the benefit of the doubt and put it down to the message being lost in the translation to English. Regardless of the explanation I get, the cost can stay as the max my husband and I will have to pay between us on a 14 night trip is $35 ie one bottle of wine or 2 bar rounds.

 

A

[Veronica13]

This thread is never going to end, is it......:o

[Wine-O]

This thread is never going to end, is it......:o

 

Not if you keep topping it. :)

[FinelyCruising]

I agree, and fully support the move to auto-tipping, to ensure that the staff are receiving adequate remuneration for the wonderful service that they provide.

 

Like many others, I too wish that the tips could be included in the fare as part of the cost of sailing, and I don't for a minute believe that this format would be a deterrent to the terrific level of on-board service that Celebrity has been known for. However, I understand the issues that prevent such a pricing structure at present. (These factors have been identified on these tipping threads many times.)

 

In the meantime, I applaud Celebrity for protecting their staff from those cruisers that find all kinds of reasons to save money by shorting the gratuities paid to the staff. I have never, ever had service on Celebrity that was less than acceptable, and 95% of the time service has greatly exceeded "an acceptable standard" everywhere on the ship.

 

I just wonder why people who are SO agitated by the $1.25/pp charge, or the gratuity for the Assistant Maitre 'd, think that Celebrity is incapable of determining which of their staff should be salaried and which should share in the gratuities, and what the level of those gratuities should reasonably be. This level of financial management is well within their scope and expertise, and is nothing that I need to worry about. The list of suggested gratuities seems reasonable to me, and I am fine with auto-tipping, and providing extra cash enclosed in thank you cards to any staff that have provided me with extra service.

 

Last year, one of Summit's former Food and Beverage Managers (rdelpappa) posted on these threads, and gave us some great information about how things are done on Celebrity ships.

 

For instance, he told us that while "waiters [from the dining room] would rotate weekly working in the Buffet during breakfast and lunch"..."other F&B Staff had higher monthly stipends ($700/month) such as the Snack Stewards - also known as Buffet Attendants (they wore the Green Aprons/Green Hats in the Buffet). These individuals had a goal of working hard and getting positive guest comments, as well as good Management Evaluations in order to move on to the next step, which is Asst Waiter..."

 

So, Celebrity provides additional compensation to those service personel who do not share fully in the gratuities, and some of the staff that we never come in contact with are on salary only. The formula for salaries vs. stipends plus gratuities is decided by Celebrity, based on information that we passengers just do not have. But one thing is abundantly clear....given the current pricing stucture of "low fares supplemented by gratuities", we, as passengers, are letting the service staff down when we do not contribute the gratuities at the levels suggested. Most of us who frequent these boards are now aware that tips provide 98% of the salary for waiters and cabin stewards. This % is based on the stipend of $50 per month plus tips providing monthly compensation of approximately $3000 for waiters and cabin stewards.

 

The following information comes from former Summit Food and Beverage Manager rdelpappa:

 

"My best guess from working with them and having personal conversations with them during off time is that they make about $3000/month.

 

Waiter's have a monthly stipend of approximately $50. They get paid bi-monthly in USD (cash), and then can have the cash direct-deposited into their bank accounts, or wired to specific persons.

 

Celebrity pays for all hotel/travel arrangements to and from the ship (some cruise lines do not). Prior to be hired, the individual must pay for their Pre-Employment Physical, which ran me about $200 (in my home city of Miami).

 

Food and accommodation is included. I am not too sure about their uniforms.

 

As far as expenditures once on board, it was virtually nil. Internet Cards were $30, pre-paid, and gave us a lot of time - something to the effect of $0.08/minute... the $20 card gave you $0.12/minute... Calling Cards were $10... not sure how much time would be on it as I had my Blackberry Pearl (AT&T) with me on board...

 

A drink at the crew bar would run $1/beer and $2/mixed drink. Bottled water ran $1, as well as Red Bulls, Gatorade, and snacks."

 

"As far as hours are concerned, Celebrity has a ZERO TOLERANCE Policy on overtime hours - this included line staff and Management.... even though we ALL had a monthly Salary, we ALL (Captain on down to Dishwasher) had to keep Time Cards. Time Cards would be checked daily to ensure we were not working more than 12 hours/day..."

 

Please remember that the estimated remuneration of $3000 per month is for 30 x 12 hour days, or 84 hours per week. It also does not take into account what is lost when passengers do not contribute the suggested gratuities. And the figure of $3000 per month is not a net figure, as can be determined by rdelpappa's comments. How much money would they have to pay you to leave your family for 9 months of the year?

 

You can try to justify holding back tips all you want to, but unless you really have had very bad service, please face the fact that when you do not tip someone who is on the suggested list, you are depriving that person of part of their fair wages, whether you see that person frequently or not. If you genuinely do not understand how gratuities factor into the system of remuneration, please ask your questions on this board. There are many people who will be able to help you understand the important role played by those suggested gratuities.

 

If you really need to hand something directly to the people who have taken such good care of you, please think about writing a note of gratitude and include it with an a "Attention to Detail" card that can be obtained from Guest Relations". Of course, a little extra cash is never amiss, if you feel that the service warranted it. And don't forget to fill out the Guest Questionnaires that are provided at the end of the cruise. They are taken very seriously by Celebrity.

 

From rdelpappa:

 

"The Attention to Detail cards are also a great resource to commend good and exceptional service, or even "little" things that a crew member may do... these cards are internally on the ship and do not go to shore side offices. The Guest Questionnaire (Comment Cards) are sealed and taken to the Miami Office, scanned via a Scan-tron Machine to generate the scores, and then any additional comments are hand typed via the Data Entry staff. A report is then generated and sent to each respective department on board the ship.

 

Thank you for posting this. This is the kind of insightful information I feel is beneficial to everyone.

[gwrod]

This thread is never going to end, is it......:o

 

Why does it need to end ? As more and more passengers return from their cruises we may be enlightened even further...........

[geoherb]

I sailed on Century in December--before the autotipping was in place. I chose to add our tips to our accounts. It's just easier for us. I figure the assistant chief housekeeper, who was on the list then instead of the nebulous phrase Celebrity uses now, would just shake down our cabin steward for part of his tip if we did not put the recommended amount in that envelope.

 

I figure the tips go in part to the servers who help us at breakfast and lunch--whether we eat in the buffet or in the dining room.