United to Charge Double

[yj_eugene]

It has to be a very extreme case to not fit in a seat. As small as the seats are, I've seen very large people in the seats. By UA's definition, "someone who needs more than one seat belt extension" would be very, very large indeed.

 

As one of these very, very large extreme cases, I have little problem with this policy. If I take up the space, which I do, I buy two tickets, which I do. Buying a first or business class ticket isn't always a solution, as those seats, while wider, vary quite a bit depending on aircraft type, and aren't as wide as two coach seats together. I think however that United might want to rethink using number of seat belt extensions as a criteria, unless they are certain all their seat belts and extensions fleet wide are exactly the same length. I fly one airline (not United) almost exclusively, and found that seat belt and extension lengths vary widely, causing me to need one extension on some flights, two on others.

 

The biggest (no pun intended) problem I have with airlines isn't with the buying of two tickets, it's that buying two tickets provides varying degrees of benefit. For example, the airlines are putting more and more entertainment controls into armrests, to the point that they no longer will flip up flush with the back of the seats. I had a flight on a 777 from Paris to Houston where the armrests wouldn't go back any farther then vertical, so I spent the entire 10 hours of the flight sitting on the front half of the two seats with an armrest up against the middle of my back and my chin on the back of the seats in front of me. Not fun. I now avoid 777's at almost any cost because of it.

 

I do like United stating that they will refund the extra ticket price if there are empty seats on the flight, but I wonder what they do if it's a trip with connections and only some of the flights involved have empty seats, not all. Do they refund all the ticket price anyway, part of it, none of it? I will say that I've never had any airline I've ever flown offer me a refund for my extra seat no matter how many empty seats their are, so I'd take that detail of the program with many grains of salt, especially with as money-hungry as the airlines are these days.

 

Anyway, back to the main point, while being gravitationally gifted presents a lot of problems, airlines charging for both seats I take up isn't one of them. Paying for the space I take up is fair to me.

[kenish]

Helicopters and light aircraft have tighter weight and balance limitations than large airliners. Persons over 250 pounds (obsese, NFL linebacker, etc) usually mean they cannot fill the aircraft and have to leave a seat empty. That's lost revenue for the tour company.

[frugaltravel]

The airline is aware the passenger purchased two seats. I wonder if it would be considered an involuntarily denied boarding situation if they took away your other seat for your other "body half" (trying not to offend).

 

You certainly would be due a refund and other compensation.

 

Of course the other person, who was probably a standby passenger would complain! Been on a plane lately? Complaints everywhere.

 

A friend of mine actually purchased 2 seats on an airline a couple of years ago from MI to London. On the way back, on the domestic connection, the flight was full. Twice after he boarded the airline tried to take away his second seat. Fortunately his more assertive son, also on the flight, put his foot down and said that his father had paid for two seats and was entitled to both seats.

 

If it ended up that he would not have been given both seats, I am sure he would have been eligible for compensation.

[BEAV]

If/when someone pays for two seats, are they issued two boarding passes and counted as two people?

 

I've often thought about buying three seats for myself and my traveling companion in order to guarantee a vacant middle seat assuming we're able to get window/aisle seat assignments in the same row. How does/would the airline handle this in an oversell/full plane scenario?

 

Lastly, will most airline and travel websites allow somone's name duplicated in either of the above two scenarios?

[RevNeal]

Yeah, but that's only gonna work in the case of spouses or friends traveling together who agree to do it because of the one passenger's size. I can't imagine a small passenger being asked to help pay for the middle seat because he's got a "fluffy" sitting next to him. The "fluffy will still have to pay for the cost of that second seat.

 

I don't think I was making that suggestion. I was simply remarking on the fact that airlines do already enable it in this way.

 

But ... here's the question I have. What happens if a larger passenger is traveling with a friend or spouse, and they book a row with only two seats. Yes, the larger passenger will spill over into the other passenger's space, but that passenger tells the airline it is fine. I wonder if the large passenger will still be required to buy a second seat? I mean, if you are infringing on the space of a friend or spouse and they have no problem accommodating you, that shouldn't be the same thing as spilling over into the space of a stranger who very well will (and should) have a problem with it.

 

Wonder how that will be handled?

 

I would expect that the airline won't allow it ... they wouldn't gain any further revenue that way.

 

And, yes, I would certainly hope that if someone were to be required to buy two seats, they should get double the amenities ... including two bags checked at the first bag rate, two glasses of soda (if the airline is still giving them out for free), etc.

 

Additional carry-ons, too? I see people board aircraft with HUGE luggage ... bags that I don't see how they fit into the overhead compartments; and, usually, more than one.

 

However, I don't expect the airlines would allow either an extra luggage allowance or double air miles in such a case. That would eat into their revenue.

[pms4104]

Additional carry-ons, too? I see people board aircraft with HUGE luggage ... bags that I don't see how they fit into the overhead compartments; and, usually, more than one.

Nope ... United's statement on their website indicates that the carryon issue is governed by TSA. However, for checked bags, United says the bag limit and fees will be calculated per ticket ... hence, one person with 2 tickets and 2 checked bags will pay the first bag fee for each of those 2 bags.

[kicia]

I think there should be people sizer the same as for carry-on luggage. In fact I think there should be a cummulative weight limit for the person and luggage. I weigh 96 pounds but still can only have a 50 lb. suitcase. The total is less than 150 pounds which is less than the weight of a lot of people alone.

[Catnip]

 

I've often thought about buying three seats for myself and my traveling companion in order to guarantee a vacant middle seat assuming we're able to get window/aisle seat assignments in the same row. How does/would the airline handle this in an oversell/full plane scenario?

 

I was wondering about the exact same scenario.

[Catnip]

It only happened to me once, when some parent tried to sneak its lapbrat into the middle seat. The kid found its way back to the parent's lap real quick once I demanded compensation for MY seat. Always funny how they think their kids are the most precious things in the world until they're expected to pay for 'em

 

Which brings us to another debate: Should lapkids be illegal? I think YES!

 

I think anyone bringing a child should pay for a seat and have them strapped in a baby/child seat. It's safer that way for both their kids as well as other passengers. That lapbaby could easily become a projectile if the plane hits some really rough weather. They have to be strapped in in a car....they should have to on a plane, too. jmho.

[pms4104]

I was wondering about the exact same scenario.

Do you think they would deny boarding to the imaginary third person? In which case, there's compensation, right? Or maybe they would offer a voluntary bump for the middle seat "occupant" and, depending on how oversold the flight was, a handsome refund or compensation for your imaginary friend.

[Jade13]

Years ago, I went standby and was called on an earlier flight on Peoples Express (remember them?).

 

Once the door was closed I was directed to the last available seat. A very overweight women was sitting in the middle seat with the armrest up and her body was halfway into the end seat. At the time I was very young and slim but this was unacceptable to have half a seat (I am not exaggerating). I went up to the front of the cabin and told the stewardess I needed another seat but was told their was none available and the plane was on its way to the runway. The stewardesses just ignored the entire situation and I endured having this women basically sitting on me the entire flight. It was horrible and unacceptable but I was young and never did write a complaint. I paid for a full seat and did not get one.

 

So, what would you say to the person who is forced to sit with an upright armrest and someone on top of them?

[pms4104]

So, what would you say to the person who is forced to sit with an upright armrest and someone on top of them?

Yes, I remember People Express.

 

Ifthe flight attendant couldn't provide alternate acceptable seating ... as soon as off the plane, I would go directly to the customer service desk and request a full refund for my passage. Failing that, a voucher for a roundtrip First Class ticket to anyplace that carrier flies in the United States.

 

Or ... while on the plane, perhaps I would have the flight attendant insist the other person stand up so I could lower the armrest between the seats ... and we both would sit down for takeoff.

[Jade13]

Yes, I remember People Express.

 

Ifthe flight attendant couldn't provide alternate acceptable seating ... as soon as off the plane, I would go directly to the customer service desk and request a full refund for my passage. Failing that, a voucher for a roundtrip First Class ticket to anyplace that carrier flies in the United States.

 

Or ... while on the plane, perhaps I would have the flight attendant insist the other person stand up so I could lower the armrest between the seats ... and we both would sit down for takeoff.

 

The flight attendants were obviously too embarrassed to say or do anything. Today I would have demanded the refund but back then I was around age 20 and in college...

[mama4katie]

I am one of those POS so kindly discussed on this thread and many others. I am extremely self conscious about my size and am almost homebound because I can almost hear your thoughts in my head...OMG is she going to sit by me? WHAT A COW!!!! Ashamed and fearful of comments, mistreatment etc, I almost never left home...until my friend talked me into trying cruising and I was hooked!!!

Being overweight is obviously not something I picked for myself. I would never have said, "Hey Lord....can you make my behind the size of a VW??" But I have FINALLY learned to deal with it and with therapy have gotten out of my house and started to explore this beautiful world that the good Lord blessed us with....Losing weight is high up on my list and something I am working on not because of your comments or actions but because I want to live and enjoy life and not watch it pass me by in my dreams....

I finally got up the nerve to fly last year and took an easy flight to Miami and back and then another to Orlando and back....Both flights were good experiences and I was relieved that they proved positive....BUT now that I am booked to fly again to Miami to cruise in June I am ready to freak because of this thread and the annoucement of United Airlines....

I travel with my daughter and friend and we always carefully pick seats together. I sit in the middle of them and we are "CLOSE" but it works...I can put on the seat belt with one extension and I suppose if I had to I could lower the arms but it would not be fun....

As self conscious as I am about my size if I get on that plane and the attendant comes up and says....sorry, you need to buy another seat and the plane is packed with people....don't you think I will be mortified....I already hear in my head....OMG look at that cow....I can not imagine what my thoughts would be....I suppose I would just go back to the car and go home rather than go through the embarrassment of being escorted off the plane in front of all to buy a second seat.....

So at this point....I have booked and paid for a seat with my daughter and friend....we love each other and don't mind the closeness....do I call and offer them more money to avoid the embarrassment??? Do I pray that the airlines don't embarrass me??? Do I take several Xanax and not give a damn about what all those persons NOT of size think??

All I ask is don't make me feel any worse about myself than I already do....I just got out of my house and kind of enjoy this world!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

By the way, if it bothers you to be near a "POS"...just do like the Carnival Employees and smile at me anyway....I kick myself enough about how I look....NO HELP NEEDED!!!!

[franu]

I am a person of size. I fit into one seat with armrest down and with one extender. Am I comfortable? NO, but neither is my normal sized friend.

 

I can understand the airlines making their own rules but would appreciate if the governments would legislate the width and depth of the seat and the space between rows. It should also legislate the size of the seat belt and the extender.

 

During one flight to Italy I was actually landing and taking off twice, once in Milan and the other in Rome where I changed planes and flew to Venice. On the first plane the seat belt didn't fit but no extender was offered. It was early on in my travelling days and I didn't know about extenders. On the second plane two hours later, after my in-flight meals, I had no problem closing the seat belt.

 

I don't want to make anyone uncomfortable but I deserve to have standard size seats and seatbelts.

Fran

[mama4katie]

Yes, I remember People Express.

 

Ifthe flight attendant couldn't provide alternate acceptable seating ... as soon as off the plane, I would go directly to the customer service desk and request a full refund for my passage. Failing that, a voucher for a roundtrip First Class ticket to anyplace that carrier flies in the United States.

 

Or ... while on the plane, perhaps I would have the flight attendant insist the other person stand up so I could lower the armrest between the seats ... and we both would sit down for takeoff.

 

 

 

WOW.....I pray I never have to sit by you.....how cruel and heartless you are....don't you think that lady felt bad enough??? I agree....pay more but don't totally embarrass the person!

[pms4104]

WOW.....I pray I never have to sit by you.....how cruel and heartless you are....don't you think that lady felt bad enough??? I agree....pay more but don't totally embarrass the person!

And your solution? The flight was full ... and there was only a half seat available for an entire passenger.

 

Further, you do not know me ... and it is unfair of you to call me cruel and heartless.

[buckirj1]

For what it's worth, I'd probably request/demand being put aboard a different flight in order to keep both my seats in an oversell situation. Thankfully, I've never had to put it to the test. My comfort is worth that much to me. The fact that my comfort also provides comfort to my seatmate is a bonus. Doing the right thing benefits everybody.

[Jane110]

If/when someone pays for two seats, are they issued two boarding passes and counted as two people?

 

I've often thought about buying three seats for myself and my traveling companion in order to guarantee a vacant middle seat assuming we're able to get window/aisle seat assignments in the same row. How does/would the airline handle this in an oversell/full plane scenario?

 

Lastly, will most airline and travel websites allow somone's name duplicated in either of the above two scenarios?

 

The airline has no right to take away a purchased seat. They might try to intimidate someone into giving it up, but if you paid for it, it's yours. In an oversold situation, the holder of the extra seat could probably get a great deal from the airline, such as a travel voucher for future travel along with a full refund, of course. The problem with this is that if someone cares enough for extra space, then a fully loaded plane is exactly the reason they purchased the extra seat in the first place!

 

I know many couples who can't pay for a Business or First Class seat and so on long trips they purchase 3 seats for the two of them in order to enjoy some more comfort. If the flight turns out to be only half full, then the "bet" was not in their favor, however, if it's fully packed, then all the more reason to have spent the money and enjoy more space.

[6rugrats]

WOW.....I pray I never have to sit by you.....how cruel and heartless you are....don't you think that lady felt bad enough??? I agree....pay more but don't totally embarrass the person!

 

I never understand posts such as yours. Why is it cruel and heartless to expect to have use of the seat for which you paid? No one knows how this woman felt, you are just guessing.

 

A logical argument is pointless against emotion.

[Jane110]

I agree with United's new policy. If you can't fit into a seat with an extender, you need two seats, period!

 

It should be mentioned, that if the flight isn't full, and there's an empty seat available, UA will refund the flyer the price of the 2nd seat.

 

SW does this and it's a fair policy in my opinion.

 

Also, the person will pay the same price for the 2nd seat that they paid for the first. IOW, if they got a cheap fare of $200. when they booked and current rate fare is $500, UA will charge them only $200.

[mama4katie]

I never understand posts such as yours. Why is it cruel and heartless to expect to have use of the seat for which you paid? No one knows how this woman felt, you are just guessing.

 

A logical argument is pointless against emotion.

 

 

I completely agree that she should have paid for the second seat...to me the fact that she needs the 2nd seat is not the problem....she knew it, the stewardess knew it, the skinny passenger knew it....the entire airplane knew OMG the poor skinny person is going to have to sit by the fat lady......it was so obvious Helen Keller could see it...........BUT

the cruel and heartless part is "demanding she stand up so the armrest can be put down".....she would have been mortified that a "scene" was made about her taking up his part of the seat........

Fat people don't need people to make a scene about their size.....it's quite obvious and there is no need for you to call my disagreement pointless and emotional........until you have walked a mile in my shoes....I don't need your comments!

[6rugrats]

I completely agree that she should have paid for the second seat...to me the fact that she needs the 2nd seat is not the problem....she knew it, the stewardess knew it, the skinny passenger knew it....the entire airplane knew OMG the poor skinny person is going to have to sit by the fat lady......it was so obvious Helen Keller could see it...........BUT

the cruel and heartless part is "demanding she stand up so the armrest can be put down".....she would have been mortified that a "scene" was made about her taking up his part of the seat........

Fat people don't need people to make a scene about their size.....it's quite obvious and there is no need for you to call my disagreement pointless and emotional........until you have walked a mile in my shoes....I don't need your comments!

 

But this poster did not make these comments. None of this ever was said. The overweight passenger was not embarrassed by the skinny passenger. Re-read the posts.

 

This was a "what if" situation. No need to be upset over nothing.

 

Your disagreement is emotional. I don't need to walk a mile in your shoes, mine have plenty of holes of their own.

[mama4katie]

But this poster did not make these comments. None of this ever was said. The overweight passenger was not embarrassed by the skinny passenger. Re-read the posts.

 

This was a "what if" situation. No need to be upset over nothing.

 

Your disagreement is emotional. I don't need to walk a mile in your shoes, mine have plenty of holes of their own.

 

 

Why would you want the lady to stand up and put the arm down???? That is just pointing out the painful obvious.....Don't you think that would be embarrassing enough as it was that the skinny dude already went to the stewardess asking for a different seat???

 

OK I will agree with you that my disagreement is emotional.....I can feel her emotions to the core because I am the fat lady taking up his seat.....I do everything I can to avoid those type of situations and not "bother" others with my big tail "touching" them....Until just recently I avoided leaving home because of situations just like that and I have worked very hard to overcome that fear of being completely and totally embarrassed because some skinny person didnt want to "touch me"....In another post I had written how it really feels and my thinking process on what would happen if I was embarrassed by being asked in front of all to buy another seat because I am fat.......One option was just leaving and going back home....another was take a few xanax and not care....At this point, I think I will just take an extra xanax and not care about what anyone thinks...besides...I won't ever have to see them again!!! I keep trying to tell myself that!

[kryos]

I would think in this case the acid test would apply ... is the POS able to secure himself safely using only one seatbelt extender?

It's not just a matter of being able to secure oneself. It is also a question of whether or not you are infringing on the space of another person who is sitting next to you and paying for a certain amount of space, some of which you are now taking up.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita