"Formal Attire" Definition Needed.... Badly

[vang52]

OK, folks! First-time cruiser, newbie question of the day - Just what does "formal attire" really mean in regards to formal night on a HAL ship? From reading the threads it is hinted that those folks whose thoughts may lie in a different vein may run a risk of a "faux pas" of major proportions.

 

Background - 6/21 Alaska cruise on the Westerdam with a party of eight including brother, sister, mom, dad, and all spouses. Ages from 49 - 82. In our group, the definition of male formal runs the entire gambit from a full tux and all the accessories, or a dark suit with shirt and tie, to slacks, jacket, and "dressy" tee shirt [dark egyptian cotton]. The ladies, from evening gown to slacks with a sparkly top and everything in between.

 

Just trying to get a good feel so it's better understood and hopefully prevent hurt feelings and indignanties all around.

[jtl513]

Here is all HAL has to say:

 

On festive Formal evenings, ladies usually wear a suit, cocktail dress or gown and gentlemen wear a jacket and tie, dark suit or tuxedo. There are approximately two formal nights per week.

 

In practice it runs about as your group definition: you'll see about 35% to 40% tuxedos, another 40% dark suits, and the rest light suits and sports jackets - all with collared shirts, and nearly all with ties. And for the ladies, you'll see the whole range from gowns to fancy tops plus slacks.

[taxmantoo]

There are as many definitions of "formal" on these boards as there are posters. It seems that, just like in your own family, everybody has their own idea of what "formal" means.

 

As you will be cruising on a HAL ship, why not simply adhere to "their" definition of "formal" as described on their website and their literature:

 

Evening dress falls into two distinct categories: Formal or Smart Casual. Smart Casual can be defined as slacks and collared shirts for men and casual dresses, slacks and informal evening wear for women. T-shirts, swimsuits, tank tops and shorts are not allowed in the restaurants or public areas during the evening hours. On festive Formal evenings, ladies usually wear a suit, cocktail dress or gown and gentlemen wear a jacket and tie, dark suit or tuxedo. There are approximately two formal nights per week.

In order to complement your fellow guests, Holland America Line asks that you observe the suggested dress code throughout the entire evening.

[vang52]

taxmantoo,

Have you ever tried to get everyone in a group of 8 on the same page..... at one time? I have a handful to deal with. The second act on the question is if some opt out on being formal at all, what do they miss in consequence? The best meals served in main dining? I don't know what to tell them. Is the Pinnicle formal at all times?

 

I also understand there is a difference between could and should. I just need a little help here so I can try to keep everyone together and not miss out on "goodies" that we wouldn't know about since all are newbies.

 

Thanks for the help!!

[unklez]

OK, folks! First-time cruiser, newbie question of the day - Just what does "formal attire" really mean in regards to formal night on a HAL ship? From reading the threads it is hinted that those folks whose thoughts may lie in a different vein may run a risk of a "faux pas" of major proportions.

 

Background - 6/21 Alaska cruise on the Westerdam with a party of eight including brother, sister, mom, dad, and all spouses. Ages from 49 - 82. In our group, the definition of male formal runs the entire gambit from a full tux and all the accessories, or a dark suit with shirt and tie, to slacks, jacket, and "dressy" tee shirt [dark egyptian cotton]. The ladies, from evening gown to slacks with a sparkly top and everything in between.

 

Just trying to get a good feel so it's better understood and hopefully prevent hurt feelings and indignanties all around.

 

For men, you can't go wrong with a tux but a dark suit and tie is easier to carry and works just as well. I personally prefer to take the suit. That way, I can use the jacket and the pants on other nights mixing them with other garments. Ladies can follow similar guidance.

[ger_77]

Considering the age span, if you tell everyone that "formal nights" in the dining room means getting dressed up as if they were attending a wedding, that should give them something to go on. Then tell them that it is a formal dinner with tablecloths and cloth napkins, like a fancy restaurant at home. If any of the gentlemen have tuxedos, they will be most welcome to wear them. Tell the ladies they can glam up as much as they'd like; there's nothing like feeling special in your fancy duds on a ship.

 

The Pinnacle Grill is a "nicer" restaurant; DH always wears a jacket when we dine there. The dress code in the Pinnacle is the same as the regular dining rooms.

 

Smooth Sailing! :):):)

[byucougs]

HAL cruisers tend to dress better than I've seen on other main cruise lines (havent been on Celebrity- yet). Alaska cruises tend to be more formal than Caribbean cruises. Havent ever seen anyone in the main dining room on formal nights in a "dressy" T-shirt (whatever that is).

 

FYI- Also, HAL cruisers, for the most part, stay dressed up for the remainder of the night. This certainly doesnt happen as much on Princess, RCCL, Disney or NCL. My college age son loved to stay dressed up along with me but my husband would go pout in our stateroom cuz he didnt like wearing his "monkey suit" more than 2-3 hours- silly guy- he looked so handsome :p.

[jtl513]

The second act on the question is if some opt out on being formal at all, what do they miss in consequence? The best meals served in main dining? I don't know what to tell them. Is the Pinnicle formal at all times?

In theory, the entire ship is supposed to follow the dress code for the evening, not just the dining room. The PG will be "smart casual" on those nights, although many men choose to wear a jacket, with or without a tie. In practice, most in the Lido will be informal on formal nights.

 

The formal nights will be the nights that surf & turf or crablegs are served in the dining room, and I don't think you can get them in the Lido.

[serendipity1499]

Vang52..Welcome to Cruise Critic...On Alaskan HAL cruises they tend to dress down..

My DH normally will take his Tux for formal night except for Alaska..We were on HAL in Alaska last year... Approx 20% of the men wore a TUX with all the accessories..My DH was in the 60% group of men who wore a suit, white shirt & Tie & there were about 20% in Sport Jackets with slacks & ties..

I wore a long black skirt with two dressy tops, as did many women..There were some Ladies in gowns but not many.. They were with the men in a TUX..Many others wore the same type of dress that I wore & there were others in their best Sunday Church outfits..

Therefore, your group even if not all together, should have no problem on Formal night..Have a wonderful time on your cruise,,You will always remember the first one!

Cheers...Betty

[pipedreams62]

[KathyPet]

What people do and what is correct are not the same thing. I will stand firmly and proclaim that "Formal attire" is a tux. That being said I can go along with a dark suit and tie. Anything less than that may be what some people wear but it just goes to prove that some people have no taste It goes with the age old question that your mother used to ask: If everyone jumped off a bridge would you jump too just to do what everyone else is doing? I also feel that for ladies a long skirt and dressy top is the best choice.

[crusinrita]

 

You have an awesome library of "photo clips"....I love it! And, yes, have been on cruises where people think this is "Formal Night"...right?

[vang52]

Thanks to each and every one of you! Pipedreams62, I must admit that the PICs you come up with are really something, LOL. Fortunately no one in our group is that "bad", but yes everything is relative too.

 

For example, when I was younger, dressing up in your Sunday best meant a nice suit, tie, wingtips, etc. Still see that in church, but low percentage now.... in fact about the same percentage as those who show up in shorts and sandals [yes, they do!!!].

 

Thanks again and we will pass these as well as any new comments along to the group.

[Boytjie]

Background - 6/21 Alaska cruise on the Westerdam with a party of eight including brother, sister, mom, dad, and all spouses. Ages from 49 - 82. In our group, the definition of male formal runs the entire gambit from a full tux and all the accessories, or a dark suit with shirt and tie, to slacks, jacket, and "dressy" tee shirt [dark egyptian cotton]. The ladies, from evening gown to slacks with a sparkly top and everything in between.

 

 

'Slacks' and 'tee shirt' should never be used in the same sentence as 'formal wear'. :D

[serendipity1499]

What people do and what is correct are not the same thing. I will stand firmly and proclaim that "Formal attire" is a tux. That being said I can go along with a dark suit and tie. Anything less than that may be what some people wear but it just goes to prove that some people have no taste It goes with the age old question that your mother used to ask: If everyone jumped off a bridge would you jump too just to do what everyone else is doing? I also feel that for ladies a long skirt and dressy top is the best choice.

 

Kathy....Wow! :mad: I would normally agree with you, but not in this case..

The attire I've mentioned in my previous post is absolutely correct according to HAL's requested standard of dress on Formal nights!

Even though a Sports Jacket is not considered correct in most Formal occasions on Land, does not hold true on Holland American Cruises!

Perhaps you should read HAL's suggested dress for Formal Night before you pass judgment on someone who might dress according to HAL's standards!

This is a quote from HAL's WEB site:

http://www.hollandamerica.com/cruise-vacation-planning/PlanningAndAdvice.action?[tabName=Cruise+Preparation&contentMenu=Baggage,+Packing+%26+Dress+Code&contentSubMenu=Packing+for+Alaska

]"On festive Formal evenings, ladies usually wear a suit, cocktail dress or gown and gentlemen wear a jacket and tie, dark suit or tuxedo. There are approximately two formal nights per week." [/quote

One who criticizes another person who does not conform to your standard of dress & saying they are lacking in taste, is also lacking in taste IMO..:mad:

Vang52, please don't consider this type of criticism indicative of most HAL Passengers..

Betty

[Plnrboy]

It is funny that we still hang onto this notion that "dress up" means a tux, dark suit, or even jacket and tie. Societies rules are funny to saythe least. What has been done doesn't always mean it should be done forever. Now I know I am from California and I will be wearing a tie and jacket but I am on vacation, which means relaxation. I really don't care if anybody thinks I have no class (altough my wife does). If everybody just relaxed and unclinched their behinds they might see that everyone can enjoy dinner. :eek: Gen Xers' and younger groups will change these rules in the near future. I like the photo too, but I wouldn't care one bit if they sat with me as long as they aren't rude. Didn't your mom's tell you not to judge the book by the cover?

[twinkletoes4445]

What people do and what is correct are not the same thing. I will stand firmly and proclaim that "Formal attire" is a tux. That being said I can go along with a dark suit and tie. Anything less than that may be what some people wear but it just goes to prove that some people have no taste It goes with the age old question that your mother used to ask: If everyone jumped off a bridge would you jump too just to do what everyone else is doing? I also feel that for ladies a long skirt and dressy top is the best choice.

 

What "you" think and what HAL asks, are two different things. Sadly, it's posts like this that about scared us away from trying HAL in the first place. :(

 

Here's what HAL has to say about the subject...

 

On festive Formal evenings, ladies usually wear a suit, cocktail dress or gown and gentlemen wear a jacket and tie, dark suit or tuxedo.

[twinkletoes4445]

 

Vang52, please don't consider this type of criticism indicative of most HAL Passengers..[/size]

Betty

 

Ditto. Very well said, Betty.

[Old As Dirt Mom]

I'm all set with my formal attire for my next Alaska cruise!

 

http://image.examiner.com/images/blog/wysiwyg/image/bob_mackie.jpg

[Nutbunch]

What a can of worms.

 

I'm not thrilled with 2 formal nights. One would be just fine. That means I have to pack two dresses. My husband can use the same suit. Don't know if the DD will insist on two dresses. We are going to Alaska, so maybe the relaxed rules will allow me slacks and a nice sparkly shirt. Other than dinner where else will I wear them?

 

As old-fashioned and quaint as the dress for dinner events are, I also think they'll change as well. Especially with airlines charging extra fees for luggage weight and another bag, or just charging to check a bag. An outfit adding weight that's only good for a one hour meal twice a week, just isn't going to be cost effective.:mad::cool:

[twinkletoes4445]

taxmantoo,

Have you ever tried to get everyone in a group of 8 on the same page..... at one time? I have a handful to deal with. The second act on the question is if some opt out on being formal at all, what do they miss in consequence? The best meals served in main dining? I don't know what to tell them. Is the Pinnicle formal at all times?

 

I also understand there is a difference between could and should. I just need a little help here so I can try to keep everyone together and not miss out on "goodies" that we wouldn't know about since all are newbies.

 

Thanks for the help!!

 

The Pinnacle Grill is formal on the nights the dining room is formal.

 

On our last cruise we did not do formal at all. We had planned on eating in our cabin on the formal evenings, but instead, we dined in the Lido. We loved the casualness (even on formal nights) of the Lido so much that we only ended up eating in the dining room one evening. The Lido offered more or less the same menu that was offered in the dining room. There were a couple of items on the dining room menu that weren't offered, and one appetizer was offered as a main dish, but we really enjoyed dining in the Lido. I'm not sure if it's changed, but back in February, you'd select your appetizer, salad, rolls, and dessert and they'd take your order for your entrée (there was a gentleman standing behind a podium at the buffet) and it would be brought to your table. There was also a waiter that brought us our iced tea or coffee.

 

We also noticed that some cruisers ate dinner in the dining room, and then went to the Lido for dessert. It's a wonderful atmosphere ... very relaxing and quiet.

 

We've not done and Alaskan cruise, but from what I've read, it does tend to be more casual.

 

Have a fun cruise! :)

[twinkletoes4445]

I'm all set with my formal attire for my next Alaska cruise!

 

http://image.examiner.com/images/blog/wysiwyg/image/bob_mackie.jpg

 

LOL...Wow! I'd look like Big Bird's date if I wore that! :)

[momatibm]

I know you were 'making a point' but I've seen close to that, except for the feathers -- not to mention a couple of outfits in restaurants in 'high end' resorts that barely met the ' how to put this -- two 4 inch bands of 'ribbon' across private parts, with net in between' decently standards for a multigenerational audience.

[twinkletoes4445]

I like the photo too, but I wouldn't care one bit if they sat with me as long as they aren't rude. Didn't your mom's tell you not to judge the book by the cover?

 

I feel the same way.

[TexasHorseLady]

 

I will stand firmly and proclaim that "Formal attire" is a tux.

 

An awful lot of people disagree with you. Including the cruiselines themselves, based on their description of proper formal attire. If they mention dark suits as being just as appropriate as a tux, then it is just as appropriate. Regardless of how firmly you stand on the subject.

 

That being said I can go along with a dark suit and tie. Anything less than that may be what some people wear but it just goes to prove that some people have no taste

 

The epitome of bad taste is proclaiming "some people have no taste". That's a lot worse than wearing the wrong outfit to dinner.

 

It goes with the age old question that your mother used to ask: If everyone jumped off a bridge would you jump too just to do what everyone else is doing? I also feel that for ladies a long skirt and dressy top is the best choice.

 

Oh please. Plenty of very formal dresses are knee length, and they're perfectly fine.

 

I just want to say - if anybody's reading this and stressing about what to wear on formal night: Take all the advice you might read in message boards (any, not just this one) with a grain of salt. You'll get as many answers as there are people online! Always READ THE CRUISELINE'S DESCRIPTION of what is formal, informal, etc, attire. That's always the real and final answer on what you should or shouldn't wear.