Pride Camp Carnival !!What are they thinking?

[BBigfoot613]

The teacher in me speaks out: I doubt if the parents act any different when they are not on vacation. That kind of behavior did not just start on that cruise.

 

Sad to think this but...you're probably right. It's a shame that a child has to be exposed to these types of things (no pun intended) especially when on vacation. I'm not sure I could have handled a situation like this w/o getting myself and/or my family thrown off the ship. I know how defensive I can be when it comes to my children...

[CMM]

OP thanks for sharing. My kids are older, but I will be more aware and try to observe situations to make sure all is ok.

 

Sorry this happened to your daughter, especially on a vacation.

[Bribrittmom]

I agree with another poster who said Carnival did not want to anger the boy's parents and thus lose some future business! Shame on Carnival and the boy's parents.The family should have been put off the ship.Maybe then the family would have realized how disturbed the boy is and got him help before he does something even more horrendous.

[misguidedangel]

Oh my, that child sounds nasty. I have to ask, how did he expose himself. You should have investigated exactly what happened and how he exposed himself and WHO else was around at the exact moment. There is also a problem, a camp cousellor can't ban a child if the counsellor doesn't see anything wrong going on. It goes back to the old he said she said. Who is right and who is wrong?

 

It is possible the child was being mean to your kids and exposed himself when a counsellor was not watching them. I would have asked your two kids exactly what he was doing that was mean as each child has a different perception of what is mean and not mean. If the counsellor was not around and you brought this to their attention the counsellor should have talked to the girls and then the boy and find out what really happened. I have to wonder if your girls were the only ones that were being picked on or if other girls or boys were picked on. It would have made a difference to have 10+ children say he was mean and picking on them as opposed to two only.

 

Some parents think their child is an absolute angel and the world revolves around their. Their child does no wrong, their child is perfect, their child could NEVER be mean or be a bully. Alas, It happens ALL the time and one of our family friends had this opinion on their son, even though he was a ringleader for doing anything and everything that is illegal, wrong, and morally wrong!!!!! Even when he got a girl pregnant at 16 his mother still thought he could do no wrong and that it was only a mistake...Uhm HELLO!!!!!

 

I was on the Freedom and there was this little girl, probably around five at best. She was somewhat cute, but extremely fat, and had the temper worse than that of Christian Bale's recorded outburst that everyone has heard or read! The child was in charge! She had a ice cream cone taken away from her and I am sure the Captain on the Bridge could hear her screaming over the music..... I watched her parents, grandparents, and aunt/uncle (I can only guess) fawn all over her as if she did/could do no wrong! I felt like going down there after she distrupted others many times and wandered into elevators for a ride to shake some sense into the parents to wake upo and smell the coffee as to WHO was in charge--their daughter, not them!!!!!! She was probably a nightmare to deal with in Camp!!!! I won't tell you of her tantrum she was throwing in Ocho Rios, only to say that she will be a very good Hollywood actress if she decides because she was showing all the drama in that tantrum!!!!!

[jnjcruiser]

Personally I'd rather see a kid get his britches whooped then see a set of parents look the other way because they are on vacation.

 

After going through the channels and seeing nothing was going to be done, I'm afraid I would have been the one doing the "whooping" on the boy. (I have two girls myself) My children can tell ya, I can give and pretty bad whooping with my finger in their face and never touch them! When I got through with the boy, The wooping would continue with the parents. I bet they would show up after they hear about what I would have said to the boy! I can see it now! All of a sudden, his parents would be every where he was! What could happen to me? Nothing was being done to him!

[Allen1914]

Thanks for the heads-up. This is like the second or third posting about Camp Carnival where the staff were less attentive. I'm sorry you and your family had to experience something so unpleasant.

[cruisecop2006]

I will admit i would have been a little more aggressive if not for my career choice. I am a career police officer with over 20 yrs. Dont wanna lose my pension going nuts on a cruiseship. My letter to Gerry Cahill is in the mail.If i get the same response from him . I will have to explore my next step.

 

Actually all i want is someone from Carnival to admit they screwed up.

and to at least act like they care ..And the firing of the Camp Carnival director would also work for me.

[CanWeGoYet?]

It's horrific that this boy exposed himself to your daughters, and made even worse by Carnival's lack of action. Speaking to the parents and getting an assurance he will be on his "best behavior." :eek: This boy would not be acting out in this manner unless he has been the victim himself of sexual abuse by some party. He needs help, he's only 10 now & if he's willing to do this kind of thing in a day camp I hate to think of what he'll be capable of when he's older or if he had a kid cornered & isolated.

 

He and his family should have been put off the ship at the first port, after this incident documented with his local legal authorities. That or make sure the boy is supervised by staff any time he left the cabin.

[cyntil8ing]

This is absolutely horrifying and I am so sorry it happened to your daughters. My kids were also in Camp Carnival on the Pride last week, but in the younger groups (2-5 and 6-8). We had no problems.

 

I'm sickened that it wasn't dealt with and I commend you for taking it up the chain of command.

[Traveler353]

This is one sick little puppy. Hopefully he will get some help before he does something trully wrong. Sadly his parents are clueless. Like so many parents that we hear about they use the the CC a a baby sitting service while they have "their" vacation. The story sounds creditable but, do remember that we are hearing only one side of the story.

[WhansaMi]

I'm going to try to give everyone a slightly different perspective to look at this from:

 

The boy probably did not admit to this. Not saying he didn't do it (or did do it), but, he probably didn't admit it. The parents are likely furious that their child was accused of something that they either think he didn't do, or was consensual "playing doctor".

 

As a teacher, I know what it is like when it is a "he said, she said" kind of thing. Last year, at our school, a boy was charged, criminally, for touching a classmate. The girl's parents were outraged. The *boy's* parents were outraged, and they levied lawsuits against the girl, the school and a couple of teachers (thank goodness I wasn't one of them).

 

The staff probably has to deal with this, on a minor basis every day ("I was playing with that and he took it from me!", "She said something mean to me!") and is told to remain as neutral as possible, because an accusation is not proof. They are probably instructed to try to monitor the kids, and speak to the parents if multiple people complain, but, often as not, parents do not believe that their children engage in bad behavior, and do not voluntarily take their kids out of the activities.

 

Moreover, you would be surprised at the number of parents of victims who actively ask school officials NOT to contact law enforcement, and get angry if the school does. I understand it... they don't want their kids to be uncomfortable, either talking to the police, or with their peers after it comes out that the police have been contacted (and, try as we might, somehow it does always get back to the kids).

 

Given all of this, I think, ultimately, it is the parent of the aggrieved child who has to intervene. If it rises to the level of criminal activity, then security should be contacted, assuming you are willing to let your child be questioned. If it doesn't rise to that level, then the parent staying with the kid during the activities to supervise, and intervene, with the bullying kid, if necessary.

 

It is not in the power of the Camp Carnival staff, however, to exclude a child based on another child's say so. It is easy to imagine a different OP, whose child was accused of something, and thrown out of CC based on the word of another child, writing a post condemning the staff -- "My kid was playing with something, and he got mad, and made up all these false claims! My kid is a good kid! He's *never* been in trouble!" Get my drift?

 

To the OP: I'm sorry that your vacation was lessened by this series of events. Sadly, there are all kinds of people in the world, including some kids who are seriously, seriously in need of help. But, I hope that you can see that, while you 100% believe in your child, the CC staff can't arrive at that conclusion, based on your child's word alone. In light of that, the is a limited variety of things they could do.

[cruisecop2006]

Thanks for your objective view. But there is a little more i didnt include. My Girls are twins and they were with there 11 year old friend who also was bother by this boy and witnessed this incident.

 

I was interviewed by the Asst chief of Security who did absolutely nothing. I am still stunned by theway this ship operated. Its actually kinda scary.

[pe4all]

What a terrible situation your girls found themselves in. I can't believe the Camp staff mis-handled this the way they did! Our school has a "zero tolerance" rule - kids are suspended for doing way less than this boy did/said to your dd's. Security should have been notified, parents warned, then dis-embarked at the next port if any sort of mis-behavior occured again. This crossed the line of bad behavior - it became a sexual deviation, and harrassment. I hope Cahill responds to the letter you sent. Good luck.

[cruisecop2006]

Thanks for your objective view. But this incident was not as described there is a little more i didnt include. My girls are twins and both where victims of this little tyrant , As well as there 11 year old friend traveling with us.

 

The Asst Chief of Security was called and he was as clueless as the rest of the ships staff we encountered. I just pray something that really needs intervention does not happen on the Pride because i am stunned by how this was handled. I know you readers where not there but it is scary to think your life is in the hands of people this incompetent.

[DocF]

Thanks for your objective view. But this incident was not as described there is a little more i didnt include. My girls are twins and both where victims of this little tyrant , As well as there 11 year old friend traveling with us.

 

The Asst Chief of Security was called and he was as clueless as the rest of the ships staff we encountered. I just pray something that really needs intervention does not happen on the Pride because i am stunned by how this was handled. I know you readers where not there but it is scary to think your life is in the hands of people this incompetent.

 

As the son of a long-time police officer, I understand perfectly the position you are in. As a security consultant to a major transportation company, I have had dealings with the security staff on all of our cruises and I am surprised that the Asst. Chief of Security did not take a more positive action in this case.

 

If I were you, I would continue to pursue this matter with the Carnival office. Letters, on paper, sent certified with return receipts requested and signatures requested to Gerry Cahill and to Mickey Arrison respectively. You obviously know how to state the situation in an accurate and detailed and non-confrontational manner. You should, at the very minimum, receive a response and an apology. Trust me, heads will end up rolling, if not immediately, there will be some contracts that will not be renewed.

 

Doc:mad:

[alreadypacked]

It's horrific that this boy exposed himself to your daughters, and made even worse by Carnival's lack of action. Speaking to the parents and getting an assurance he will be on his "best behavior." :eek: This boy would not be acting out in this manner unless he has been the victim himself of sexual abuse by some party. He needs help, he's only 10 now & if he's willing to do this kind of thing in a day camp I hate to think of what he'll be capable of when he's older or if he had a kid cornered & isolated.

 

He and his family should have been put off the ship at the first port, after this incident documented with his local legal authorities. That or make sure the boy is supervised by staff any time he left the cabin.

 

 

Due to my line of work, I facilitate a lot of gender violence education. It's difficult to say exactly why a boy would behave this way. Being a victim himself could certainly be a factor. So is witnessing domestic violence at home. A child's home of origin tends to be the greatest influence on their behavior in such matters (though, not the only influence). So, I'm not convinced that speaking to the parents would have had any beneficial effect. I, too, hate to think of what this child will be capable of when he gets older. Sexual offenders aren't born overnight and their behavior usually escalates over time.

[trock]

I must say I dont have children but I was one once... and with this perhaps I am not fully understanding the extent of what occured..

 

I understand the OP's anger at Camp Carnival and the total disregard from the other childs parents BUT.. these kids are ten.. isnt this what kids do until they get disciplined enough not to?

 

I remember being a little kid. 8 -10 yrs old.. and we bullied each other and smacked each other and were best friends 5 minutes later.. some boys would flash you.. but none of this made them deviants or criminals.. Isn't this what kids do? They test the boundaries?

 

I am only asking because someone said call the press and if I am reading it correctly I really dont think 'ruining' the life a ten year boy is warranted...

[GreenZolie]

I will venture a guess that the ship's staff did not want to take one child's word over another child's word, and that is why they didn't pursue the matter. They should have, however, known how to soothe you, the parents of the girls. A smart staff will know how to ensure both parties leave satisfied, or at least not incensed.

 

I realize this was also not just one child's word against another child's word - you said there were 3 girls in your party who all reported the same story about the one boy. Chances are it happened, then. But, the ship's staff has no way of knowing, if they didn't witness it. The problem is, of course, is that children who do things like this only do it when they are sure adults are not around.

 

When I was 11, traveling with my grandparents and 12 year old cousin, for a month long trip to visit multiple distant relatives out of state, this happened to us. A third cousin twice removed (or some such removal) exposed himself to us one night, while the adults were out. He was 16 and left in charge of us for the evening! We stayed in his parent's home for a week, and he was a perfect gentleman that whole week while the adults were around. But, the one night they were gone, he thought it would be a good idea to unzip his shorts, pull out his goods and proceed to fondle himself in front of us, while the 3 of us played cards on the living room floor.

 

I didn't tell my mother until a month after we arrived home, and when she called my grandparents to tell them, who then called the distant relatives, they, of course did not believe the whole thing. They came just short of calling us 2 girls liars, including accusing my 12 year old cousin of dressing too promiscuously (she was well endowed already at 12). Typical response by some folks: the female must have done something to cause the male to behave so inappropriately.

 

The thing is, only 3 people know exactly what happened that night. None of the adults witnessed it, and so, it was our word against the boy's word. My point being, in your case, some of the staff may have thought your girls "invited" the behavior, or at the very least, were not completely innocent in the whole thing. Such as perhaps they asked the boy to show his goods, etc. I am sure you know it did not happen that way, but the staff doesn't know your girls like you do, so they didn't know what to believe.

 

This is the ONLY explanation I can think of for why they would brush off something so serious! I hope your girls are not too traumatized by this. :(

[Tammylyne]

I must say I dont have children but I was one once... and with this perhaps I am not fully understanding the extent of what occured..

 

I remember being a little kid. 8 -10 yrs old.. and we bullied each other and smacked each other and were best friends 5 minutes later.. some boys would flash you.. but none of this made them deviants or criminals.. Isn't this what kids do? They test the boundaries?

 

I am only asking because someone said call the press and if I am reading it correctly I really dont think 'ruining' the life a ten year boy is warranted...

 

 

My daughter is 10 and knows all about the birds and bees and she also fully knows never to show her privates to anyone! Kids do not expose themselves to each other, at least I have never encountered that nor has my little one. And if they are "Exposing" themselves it makes you wonder who is teaching this child and what arent they teaching him? This is not norm behaviour and I would be sickened if my child was exposed to that.

I can tell you this..my child learned about the birds and bees from me and 2 weeks ago had health class where they talked about actual intercourse, she was asked to draw a boys private and label it :eek: She was very uncomfortable went to the office and they called me. 4 other girls also left the class..so at that young of an age they know and can very much feel uncomfortableness. And it is quite upsetting to them..so i couldnt even imagine what the OP's little girls must of felt..it must of been quite traumatic..as for the little boy he has to be made aware this is not a way to behave nor should this be condoned. Condoning such behaviour only leads to problems later on where the line between right and wrong is blurred

[gemcrusier]

WOW I would have camped out at camp carnival until the parents arrived asked for the captain and demanded an apoligy from the family

[alreadypacked]

I must say I dont have children but I was one once... and with this perhaps I am not fully understanding the extent of what occured..

 

I understand the OP's anger at Camp Carnival and the total disregard from the other childs parents BUT.. these kids are ten.. isnt this what kids do until they get disciplined enough not to?

 

I remember being a little kid. 8 -10 yrs old.. and we bullied each other and smacked each other and were best friends 5 minutes later.. some boys would flash you.. but none of this made them deviants or criminals.. Isn't this what kids do? They test the boundaries?

 

I am only asking because someone said call the press and if I am reading it correctly I really dont think 'ruining' the life a ten year boy is warranted...

 

Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but I think we're traveling down a dangerous road when bullying, smacking one another, and exposing one's genitals is regarded as kids being kids. I realize what constitutes "normal" behavior is relative. No boy (or man) ever exposed himself to me when I was growing up, so I don't call that behavior normal.

 

It's really hard to know exactly what you'd do if this happened to your child on a cruise (or anywhere). I fully empathize with the OP.

[bplazo]

They should have been taken off the ship at the next port.

[CanWeGoYet?]

I remember being a little kid. 8 -10 yrs old.. and we bullied each other and smacked each other and were best friends 5 minutes later.. some boys would flash you.. but none of this made them deviants or criminals.. Isn't this what kids do? They test the boundaries?

 

I agree in that calling the press might not be the best way to handle the situation. I can see why a parent might feel that public pressure might be the only way to get a response from corporate, though - if all other measures had failed.

 

But no way is this normal "testing the boundaries" or goofing off behavior from a 10 year old boy.

[trock]

Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but I think we're traveling down a dangerous road when bullying, smacking one another, and exposing one's genitals is regarded as kids being kids. I realize what constitutes "normal" behavior is relative. No boy (or man) ever exposed himself to me when I was growing up, so I don't call that behavior normal.

 

It's really hard to know exactly what you'd do if this happened to your child on a cruise (or anywhere). I fully empathize with the OP.

 

 

I think you need to reread my post... I stated UNTIL DISCIPLINED>..

I never questioned the OPs feelings... I too would have looked for the parents.. CC management etc... I am just saying kids are kids... they bully they are mean and do crazy things.. I dont think a 10yr old should be labeled for this behavior unless it is sincerely a 'problem'... ;)

I dont know this child or what the circumstances were... I do think calling the press will hurt the kids- on both sides

[ronandannette]

Thanks for your objective view. But there is a little more i didnt include. My Girls are twins and they were with there 11 year old friend who also was bother by this boy and witnessed this incident.

 

I was interviewed by the Asst chief of Security who did absolutely nothing. I am still stunned by theway this ship operated. Its actually kinda scary.

 

If you don't mind expanding, what DID these people (security and CC management) actually say in response to your concerns?

 

Happy Sails,

 

Annette