What constitutes "bad behavior"?

[CowPrincess]

I will admit I just wandered over here and I only read the first 2 pages or so. I just wanted to give a friendly warning to parents so this doesn't happen again.

 

I have waited tables for years. In that time, I have tripped over several children playing under tables that popped out at the wrong time. Once, I walked out of the kitchen with a tray with hot liquids on it (soup, beans, and I think gravy...anyway) and tripped over a kid. My knee connected with his lip and he ended up needing stitches and the soup burned him. I have had lasting problems with my back because of the way I fell. I felt horrible. I didn't see him because he was so close to the door and the tray was right in front of me. So please PLEASE don't let your kids play under the table, beside the table, or at another one (so they don't dart out in front of someone going back to the parents' table.)

 

Friendly or not, I fear your warning will fall on deaf ears (if the OP even bothers to show up again)..... apparently in his eyes he is a perfect parent, and his child too is perfect. So it is your problem if the kid is a trip hazard, inappropriate, disruptive. The whole world should find the kid's behaviour charming, dontchaknow? :rolleyes:

 

I'm very sorry about your ongoing injury -- don't you wish you'd sued the parents of the kid?

[ckekjhaze]

chiming in late here with unsolicited parenting advice- but the OP is confusing his role. He is the parent, not his child's friend. Kids play and act goofy with their friends and look to their parents for guidance. Not that I don't have fun with my 3 daughters, but I am their mother first and always. we spent many rainy days making forts under furniture with blankets in the TV room- but hiding under tables in a dining room on a cruise? seriously? wake up

 

ummmm.... how many ways can I say it? absolutely not ever allowed crawling under tables or visiting nearby tables during meals, empty or not

 

the only exception is if your party is large and takes up 2 tables, then go visit but not running back and forth

 

try some proactive parenting- you don't have to be saying no, stop or don't all the time- instead how about telling and showing the children how they should be acting and what they should be doing! it's work but worth it

 

we love to hike and were on a moderate trail yesterday and encountered a family whose 2 kids thought it amusing to run ahead- and not listen to their parents repeated pleas to "stay where we can see you", not much fun for anyone within earshot listening to this undisciplined family, and really how could they observe all the beauty around them or learn about all the trail features and flora that were on plaques at intervals because they were so unruly they just ran away and whooped and hollered like wild animals

one of the boys got a nasty twisted ankle after doing a dangerous jump off a rock and landed on a tree root-

 

he had to be carried out and all could have been avoided if taught at a younger age how to behave

problems only get bigger, they don't go away!

[Snowbuddy]

I should probably clarify something I said...I am the one who brought up not always wanting to say "no", "don't do that", etc. I agree, the problems will only get worse if not nipped in the bud, and we try to teach the right way immediately, or avoid situations that would require a "no" all of the time. for example, we do not allow our daughter to take her sippy cup out of the kitchen/dining room area at home. So, she gets to take a drink and is taught to put the cup back on the high chair immediately, or else it gets put back in the fridge, we do not allow her to run around with it all of the time. right now, we are working on teaching her to not throw the tantrums (she was swinging her blanket around the other night b/c she was mad, and hit daddy with it, so the blanket got taken away and she had to tell daddy she was sorry). Granted, at 16 months old, she really doesn't know how to say sorry, but we are working on signing for it, and at least teaching her that there is some consequence for her behavior, even if she doesn't "get" it yet.

[quincytoo]

I find your post interesting. Here in our state, underage kids can drink with parents permission, but a parent has to be present. If I were you, I would have punished him. Related, we have a 24 y/o who graduated from college in 2007. He went to school out of state and no amount of talking, guidance etc. prepared us for all the weekend 'frat' parties he attended. Those evenings usually ended up with 3:00 am 'drunken' phone calls telling us how great we were and it 'wasn't the alcohol talking'. We decided to blow it off and tell him his behavior was not acceptable and maybe he shouldn't be going to so many fraternity parties. He agreed and it eventually leveled off. BTW, he graduated on time and made great grades.

 

I'm just saying that your 16 y/o should be held accountable for his own bad behavior. In other words, I think it's detrimental to put the blame for his drinking on others (especially adults). These days, if kids want to drink, they're gonna find a way. I don't want to sound harsh, but what I'm trying to say is that I think too often, parents blame everyone else in the world for their kids bad behavior except for the kid. It think a 16 y/o knows better.

 

I totally understand what you are saying :)

 

But in this single case, he knew he had screwed up seriously, he was very ashamed of his actions and worried to the point of being almost sick ( the day after the worst hangover in the world)that he had disappointed us. He could have died very easily, we felt he had been more then punished.

[ash4020]

Friendly or not, I fear your warning will fall on deaf ears (if the OP even bothers to show up again)..... apparently in his eyes he is a perfect parent, and his child too is perfect. So it is your problem if the kid is a trip hazard, inappropriate, disruptive. The whole world should find the kid's behaviour charming, dontchaknow? :rolleyes:

 

I'm very sorry about your ongoing injury -- don't you wish you'd sued the parents of the kid?

 

Not really. Do I think that I had just cause to do so? Yes, but I'm a big believer in karma. :cool:

I also think that momma there got the idea that her precious shouldn't play under tables when she had to take her kid to the ER because his teeth went through his lip.

[oldsouthcruisingfamily]

We're taking our 4 yr old daughter on her first cruise. My wife and I have been working (with varying degrees of success) on teaching her acceptable behaviour while on board the ship. We have been emphasing how to behave in the dining room & table manners.

I don't remember if the OP child is male or female, but we have been having some success with teaching "princess manners". I find it amazing how much of an impact that some Disney cartoon characters can have on a little girl!

That being said, I'm certain that we will not be dining in the Main Dining Room every night out of consideration for our daughter and our own dining enjoyment. I think that sitting still and practising "princess manners" for a couple of hours would challenge most children of that age. I think we will be taking advantage of our ship's Windjammer Cafe for some dinners and taking advantage of any kids-only dinners put on by Adventure Ocean.

[sas80]

This thread makes me think that some people just sell their kids short when it comes to assuming what they are capable and not capable of mentally handling at any given age.

 

I am using the words "appropriate" and "not appropriate" and "that is rude" with our 2 year old and he 'gets it' as long as it is in context.

 

Ex "take your leg off the coffee table, that is not appropriate"

"take your foot off the dinner table, that is rude"

 

I do know that kids are very good at reading their parents and know exactly how far to push it to get their way.

[cyntil8ing]

Since this thread seems to have evolved into parenting tips, here's mine. ;-)

 

When possible, request the behavior you expect positively. Instead of saying, "Take your feet off of the coffee table," I'll say, "Our feet belong on the floor." Instead of "Get up off the dining room floor," it's "We sit at the table until dinner is over."

 

Then, for any subsequent errors, I'll ask "Where do our feet belong?" to have them repeat back to me that they belong on the floor.

 

I swear I've asked, "Where does the napkin go?" at least a million times! With little ones, I act like I've really forgotten and they are helping me out by reminding me. I'll put it on my head and ask if it goes there. They'll giggle and tell me that no, it goes on my lap. By the time I ask them to show me, they're putting their own napkin on their lap.

[sas80]

Since this thread seems to have evolved into parenting tips, here's mine. ;-)

 

When possible, request the behavior you expect positively. Instead of saying, "Take your feet off of the coffee table," I'll say, "Our feet belong on the floor." Instead of "Get up off the dining room floor," it's "We sit at the table until dinner is over."

 

Then, for any subsequent errors, I'll ask "Where do our feet belong?" to have them repeat back to me that they belong on the floor.

 

I swear I've asked, "Where does the napkin go?" at least a million times! With little ones, I act like I've really forgotten and they are helping me out by reminding me. I'll put it on my head and ask if it goes there. They'll giggle and tell me that no, it goes on my lap. By the time I ask them to show me, they're putting their own napkin on their lap.

 

PLEASE tell me...what age did you start requiring that your child start using a napkin?

[cyntil8ing]

PLEASE tell me...what age did you start requiring that your child start using a napkin?

 

Well, I can't say as they actually use it! :o It usually ends up getting placed but then falls on the floor about 30 seconds later.

 

My just-turned six year old has table manners that I'm happy with. I'm still working on getting my three year old to consistently use utensils!

[Snowbuddy]

Well, I can't say as they actually use it! :o It usually ends up getting placed but then falls on the floor about 30 seconds later.

 

My just-turned six year old has table manners that I'm happy with. I'm still working on getting my three year old to consistently use utensils!

 

My 16 1/2 month old is still hit or miss w/ the utensils, and mostly relies on using her hands still (she will be 18-months-old when we cruise)...is this going to be a huge faux-pas in the MDR? I don't want everyone around us to be insulted by her eating that way, but we would love to have at least a few meals in there...

[cyntil8ing]

Toddlers are messy eaters. It's just a given, not a parenting failure. If anyone thinks your not-yet-two year old should have perfect table manners, their expectations are simply too high.

[CanadianTwosome]

PLEASE tell me...what age did you start requiring that your child start using a napkin?

 

For us, it's been so long I can't remember. What I can tell you is that we never stopped dining out after our daughter was born, and every time we went, she watched me put my napkin on my lap. I started putting hers on her lap sometime around the time when we stopped using a bib every time... and eventually it even stayed there the 'first' time. I didn't even think about it, though... it's just where it belongs, so that's where I put it... and replaced it if it fell or got 'moved'. When she was old enough to converse with, we talked about why we put it there and expected her to do it herself. Now that she's 11 I haven't asked 'Where's your napkin?' for so long I can't remember. (again... and I choose to attribute that to her good table manners rather than my aging! :p) I actually think the last time I asked it, I really meant it, because her place sitting didn't appear to have one - but it was already on her lap!

 

I actually think proper table manners are incredibly easy to teach - as long as you practice them yourself (like so many other things). If you put your napkin on your lap, place your cutlery in the 'done' position, spoon your soup 'out', wait for everyone to be served before you start, and use the right fork, your kids will see it and all that's really left to do is talk about table manners in general and why they're important.

 

I think the napkin on the lap in particular becomes a bit of a 'Pavlovian response' - if you don't have a server that does it for you - your food arrives and you just naturally perform the action without thinking. We get some strange looks sometimes at the mall food court when we're taking our little paper napkins and opening them up and placing them across one leg! ha ha ha

[Ellanora]

PLEASE tell me...what age did you start requiring that your child start using a napkin?

 

You didn't ask me, but I'll answer anyway. :D Once my son started ordering his meals from the adult menus instead of kids menus, I started requiring him to keep a napkin on his lap. I figured that was a good indicator that if he was big enough and old enough to sit and eat the larger portions, he was old enough to sit still to keep the napkin from constantly falling. :p

[CanadianTwosome]

Toddlers are messy eaters. It's just a given, not a parenting failure. If anyone thinks your not-yet-two year old should have perfect table manners, their expectations are simply too high.

 

This is absolutely true!! What we can do as parents, though, is do our best not to leave a pigsty behind when we leave - and keep the 'mess' as small as possible as it happens. I don't know if this is one more area where we were particularly fortunate with ours, but she never threw food on the floor - it sometimes dropped there if it got pushed off the table or dropped by accident, but she never felt the need to do it on purpose (thank goodness). So, for us, when we finished eating, we usually had a fairly 'small' mess around her - either on the table of a high chair or about the size of a high chair table if she was at the 'regular' table. I would take my napkin and gather up the bits and push them onto a plate - and pick up anything that was on the floor if I could. If there was a spill that I couldn't at least make an attempt at, I would draw the server's attention to it so that it could be addressed - as well as apologizing. I've often asked for a wet cloth to clean a spill or other mishap myself as well. I just never thought it was fair to leave something like that for a server.

[Kerry's Girls]

My 16 1/2 month old is still hit or miss w/ the utensils, and mostly relies on using her hands still (she will be 18-months-old when we cruise)...is this going to be a huge faux-pas in the MDR? I don't want everyone around us to be insulted by her eating that way, but we would love to have at least a few meals in there...

 

I ate every meal (breakfast/lunch/dinner) in the MDR with my 13 month old twins on our first Princess cruise. I brought disposable bibs and wipes to keep things neat - but of course the girls were allowed to eat with their hands. Salmon, veggies, hamburger, etc - they really enjoyed it. Bring your own supply of sippy cups as most ships only have the large glasses/goblets that are hard for little hands to manage. But the staff is wonderful with children and we are always treated like queens. There is so much activity going on, that my girls are always able to sit through meals on ships. I bring little distractions (crayons, stickers, etc) and make sure they are always well rested before a meal. They are 4 and have been on 6 cruises (including a 2 week transatlantic) and look forward to being big girls in the dining room - always with ice cream as the final reward. I agree that kids will be kids, but my girls know what is expected and that mommy has no problem getting up to leave instantly. The hardest part is when other kids are allowed to act like the dining room is a Chuck E Cheese and my girls want to know why they can't run around/bang silverware/etc. too.

 

I actually don't know how parents handle the buffet with kids. I find it so much easier (and enjoyable) to be able to sit with my children rather than the up/down hectic atmosphere of a buffet.

 

Best,

Mia

[cyntil8ing]

I actually don't know how parents handle the buffet with kids. I find it so much easier (and enjoyable) to be able to sit with my children rather than the up/down hectic atmosphere of a buffet.

 

I agree! We did end up with a workable system. I took the kids around and got what they wanted while my husband found us a table. I dropped the kids and food off at the table and then went to get my own food while dh got the kids set up. When I got back, he went. For dessert, he took the kids while I held the table. It wasn't the best solution, but it worked. I don't know what I would have done had I been on my own. I guess just added some food for me to their plates. It is much nicer to be waited on in the dining room!

[Onessa]

PLEASE tell me...what age did you start requiring that your child start using a napkin?

 

DD (now nearly 14YO) has been using one since she stopped needing a bib. If the napkin isn't on your lap, it is an indication that you've been squirming too much.

 

We have always had a guideline that one needs to sit on one's bottom while at the dinner table. Performing acrobatic manuvers on chairs has never been acceptable anywhere as far as our family is concerned.

 

Toddlers are messy eaters. It's just a given, not a parenting failure. If anyone thinks your not-yet-two year old should have perfect table manners, their expectations are simply too high.

 

Yes -- too many adults forget what it is like to be a little one (or the parent of a little one). However I also agree whole-heartedly with the poster who tries to minimize the mess up-front and do whatever tidying up is practical during and afterward.

 

. . . Bring your own supply of sippy cups as most ships only have the large glasses/goblets that are hard for little hands to manage. But the staff is wonderful with children and we are always treated like queens. There is so much activity going on' date=' that my girls are always able to sit through meals on ships. I bring little distractions (crayons, stickers, etc) and make sure they are always well rested before a meal. . . . my girls know what is expected and that mommy has no problem getting up to leave instantly. . .

 

I actually don't know how parents handle the buffet with kids. I find it so much easier (and enjoyable) to be able to sit with my children rather than the up/down hectic atmosphere of a buffet. . . . [/quote']

 

Once again Mia is the voice of reason! Good advice.

 

. The hardest part is when other kids are allowed to act like the dining room is a Chuck E Cheese and my girls want to know why they can't run around/bang silverware/etc. too. . .

 

DD roles her eyes at this point -- as MY grandmother would have said "if everyone else is jumping off a cliff onto the jagged rocks below, does that mean that you should?"

 

why can't you? Guess what just because someone else is doing something wrong and/or being bad -- does not mean that you should do something wrong and/or be bad. If more adults lived by this maxium, the world would be a much better place!

[Snowbuddy]

Guess what just because someone else is doing something wrong and/or being bad -- does not mean that you should do something wrong and/or be bad. If more adults lived by this maxium, the world would be a much better place!

 

I have a phrase I use w/ my youth group at my church (I work with 9-12th graders)--Just b/c everyone else is doing it doesn't make it right; just b/c no one else is doing it doesn't make it wrong. That is something I plan to teach my DD as well.

 

Also, we try to minimize DD's messes as much as possible. DH is a bit of a neat freak, so leaving an eating area w/ half the meal on the floor is NOT acceptable! We stopped the throwing the cup fits pretty much at day one, and, well, she likes her food too much to throw that, lol!

[Warm Breezes]

I have a phrase I use w/ my youth group at my church (I work with 9-12th graders)--Just b/c everyone else is doing it doesn't make it right; just b/c no one else is doing it doesn't make it wrong. That is something I plan to teach my DD as well.

 

I had to emphasize this with DD(12) and DS(15) on our last cruise. They know the dress code for the MDR because this was our 6th cruise and I always make sure we all follow the cruiseline's dress code. DD and DS were glad they were able to wear dress shorts on this cruise for non-cruise elegant nights since Carnival changed their dress code since the last time we had cruised with them. The problem came when on the cruise elegant nights when I made them dress up, the tweens and teenagers at the tables on both sides of us were wearing jeans and t-shirts. On non-cruise elegant night they wore t-shirts and beach flip flops which I would not allow them to wear. I told them to get over it because they follow my rules and my rules are to follow the ships dress code. They always dressed as I asked but they always made sure to point out what the other kids were wearing when went down for dinner.

[CanadianTwosome]

I had to emphasize this with DD(12) and DS(15) on our last cruise. They know the dress code for the MDR because this was our 6th cruise and I always make sure we all follow the cruiseline's dress code. DD and DS were glad they were able to wear dress shorts on this cruise for non-cruise elegant nights since Carnival changed their dress code since the last time we had cruised with them. The problem came when on the cruise elegant nights when I made them dress up, the tweens and teenagers at the tables on both sides of us were wearing jeans and t-shirts. On non-cruise elegant night they wore t-shirts and beach flip flops which I would not allow them to wear. I told them to get over it because they follow my rules and my rules are to follow the ships dress code. They always dressed as I asked but they always made sure to point out what the other kids were wearing when went down for dinner.

 

We spend a lot of time talking about personal responsibility when things like this come up at our house. Nobody makes our choices for us, it is always up to us to do what we know to be 'the right thing' (whatever that is). 'They' make their choices, and WE make OUR choices. We've also talked about what a good response is when someone says things like, 'You're just a chicken,' (I'm not too chicken to refuse when you're trying to push me into it) or 'You just won't do it because your mom wouldn't like it' (My mom and I care about my safety... do you?) So far we've always ended up agreeing about what was or wasn't a good choice, and she's prepared to stick up for herself if someone tries to convince her to do something she knows is a bad choice. I sure hope my input here doesn't change in the next few years as puberty (and the accompanying hormonal psychosis) takes hold... :eek: I don't want to be the mom begging for advice on how to deal with a mini-Miley Cyrus!!!

[CC Help Michell]

I channeled a phrase from my grandmother today while I was at school. I heard myself telling students "begin as you mean to go on." I thought about that while reading this thread (well, some of it anyway! :) )

 

If when a child is older they won't be permitted to crawl around under a dining table (:eek:), then don't permit that when they are younger. "UNteaching" things is infinitely harder than teaching things correctly in the first place, because you have to undo, then instruct and practice and redo. Why not instruct and practice it correctly in the first place?

 

I agree with the person above who said sometimes folks sell their kids short in setting expectations for their behavior. Obviously learning is a process, and you'd never punish while a child's going through the process, but I don't see anything wrong with setting high expectations and providing all the support and encouragement possible to help your child achieve them. Children will astonish you with the things they can do.

[ginjer2911]

I'm not sure if the OP is going to come back anymore, but I have to say that I think EVERYTHING that you are allowing your child to do when you go out to eat is bad behavior and would not be tolerated from my children.

 

I have a 3yr old and 5 year old. We have been going out to sit down restaraunts since they were born. DD #2 hasn't sat in a high chair since she was 18months old. She decided that she was too big. She has sat up in her seat; No crawling on the floor; no standing. Her only problem is that she sits too close to dh or I and we are constantly telling her to move over. She knew that if she wasn't still then we would have gotten a high chair for her so she sat up like a big girl. She is also able to sit through a movie without any problems.

 

We are planning our first cruise with our daughters and haven't even worried about whether they would be able to sit at the dinner table with us. I know they will because they have been taught and been doing the correct thing for a long time.

 

DH and I are both really strict with our kids. We allow them to be kids in the appropriate setting, but when they need to be calm they can be. We don't even allow them to kick the bottom of the booth because we feel that this disturbs the people sitting on the other side.

 

It makes me very proud when my children behave in public and other people notice that. That is when I know that I have suceeded at being a parent and that way I don't need to come on a message board and ask strangers if I am a terrible parent or not!

[bobsfamily]

I'm not sure if the OP is going to come back anymore, but I have to say that I think EVERYTHING that you are allowing your child to do when you go out to eat is bad behavior and would not be tolerated from my children.

Bravo!!! Agree completely..

[billysive]

It seems from all the back and forth that the OP is looking for others to validate his 3 year olds behavior (or more precisely - the OPs behavior in regard to his 3 year old). He is not getting it.

 

I don't exactly believe we need to go back to the "children should be seen and not heard" days - but I think too many parents have bothered to teach their children how to behave in "grown-up" places and settings. I was in the Executive Lounge at an airport recently and their were 2 kids (maybe 8 and 12 years old) playing hacky sack amongst those of us trying to have a quick breakfast before an early flight.

 

Since a 2 or 3 year old is often not able to control their behavior it is up to the parents to keep their children from acting in an inappropriate way.

 

What's inappropriate?

 

Here's a good guideline for the OP to use: if you have to ask an online message board if the behavior is appropriate - then it probably isn't!!