What constitutes "bad behavior"?

[uppitycats]

I think the OP has long left this thread. She/he didn't get the validation they wanted, so they stopped reading.

[CC Help Michell]

I think the OP has long left this thread. She/he didn't get the validation they wanted, so they stopped reading.

 

Well, perhaps having heard the same message on 2 boards (yeah, most of what you permit your child to do is "bad" behavior) the OP will actually take the time to re-examine what they do and do not permit their child to do, so we accomplished something here. Maybe? I'll hang onto that notion, anyway.

[beachchick]

Well, perhaps having heard the same message on 2 boards (yeah, most of what you permit your child to do is "bad" behavior) the OP will actually take the time to re-examine what they do and do not permit their child to do, so we accomplished something here. Maybe? I'll hang onto that notion, anyway.

 

Aloha! Hope is a wonderful thing...but in this case, I fear it is not enough.

 

Just for, well, morbid entertainment, I guess, I went and read back his posts on other threads. All I can say is :confused: and :eek: and :mad: because I am as thoroughly boggled by his attitude and rationalizations as you are. I am also somewhat disgusted that he doesn't seem to get how much these behaviors affect others. (Didn't want to assume you are also disgusted, but I bet I'm not wrong in thinking you might agree with me.);)

 

I shall now have to question the cleanliness of place settings in the dining rooms and restaurants on cruise ships! Those aren't venues where you expect to have that kind of concern. For pity's sake, they are not Chuck E. Cheese! What if a waiter didn't see or notice that the little darling was playing at another table, likely handling the tableware, glasses, etc.? What if he had a cold or, even worse, had picked up something truly vile from his explorations under the table? Terrific. The next passenger to sit at that table would now be exposed to God knows what, all because of the little darling's parents and their allowance of completely inappropriate behavior. Certainly I expect the possibility of something like that at a super casual, kid-oriented restaurant on land, but not in a cruise dining room or specialty restaurant. Of course, it's not even an issue at fast food places because we grab our own disposable items. (OTOH, the only fast food we eat is In-n-Out about 6 times a year. Guess that's not much of a risk anyway.)

 

And allowing his DS to play in the atrium fountain, rationalizing it with (not exact quotes here) "There wasn't a sign saying not to" and "We weren't bothering anyone" and "He really wanted to do it and he's too young to know how to behave"--Give me a break! Seems to me that parents are supposed to teach their children what is and is not appropriate because children don't automatically know.

 

Oh well. I suspect that because he did not get the responses he wanted that he simply left in a huff over what he perceives as our "problems" with children. Never mind that most of us are parents who love our children and have no problem being around the well behaved children of others. And by "well behaved" I do not mean "seen and not heard" little statues, but children who have been taught what is and is not proper in various places and situations.

 

(BTW, I didn't realize you are a teacher. What grade(s)? I taught 3rd through 5th at a private school about a million years ago before I bailed to the private sector. My parents were both teachers (dad, high school; mom, 6th grade and then middle school). My grandma was a science teacher back when women were expected to go to college to find a husband, not to get BS degrees and credentials and move out on their own. My brother teaches at two JCs. As you might expect, I have rather a lot of respect for teachers. You're brave!)

 

beachchick

[bobsfamily]

Just for, well, morbid entertainment, I guess, I went and read back his posts on other threads. All I can say is :confused: and :eek: and :mad: because I am as thoroughly boggled by his attitude and rationalizations as you are. I am also somewhat disgusted that he doesn't seem to get how much these behaviors affect others. (Didn't want to assume you are also disgusted, but I bet I'm not wrong in thinking you might agree with me.);)

 

I shall now have to question the cleanliness of place settings in the dining rooms and restaurants on cruise ships! Those aren't venues where you expect to have that kind of concern. For pity's sake, they are not Chuck E. Cheese! What if a waiter didn't see or notice that the little darling was playing at another table, likely handling the tableware, glasses, etc.? What if he had a cold or, even worse, had picked up something truly vile from his explorations under the table? Terrific. The next passenger to sit at that table would now be exposed to God knows what, all because of the little darling's parents and their allowance of completely inappropriate behavior. Certainly I expect the possibility of something like that at a super casual, kid-oriented restaurant on land, but not in a cruise dining room or specialty restaurant.

 

beachchick

 

Oh great, now I have to worry about forks in the MDR:D

[stevejo]

Looks great! A lot of great thoughts!

[CC Help Michell]

Aloha! Hope is a wonderful thing...but in this case, I fear it is not enough.

 

Just for, well, morbid entertainment, I guess, I went and read back his posts on other threads. All I can say is :confused: and :eek: and :mad: because I am as thoroughly boggled by his attitude and rationalizations as you are. I am also somewhat disgusted that he doesn't seem to get how much these behaviors affect others. (Didn't want to assume you are also disgusted, but I bet I'm not wrong in thinking you might agree with me.);)

 

I think that's a good word for it. Though I'm starting to think maybe he does "get" how these behaviors affect others... it's "caring" about that which seems to be in question!

 

<snip for space>

 

 

(BTW, I didn't realize you are a teacher. What grade(s)? I taught 3rd through 5th at a private school about a million years ago before I bailed to the private sector. My parents were both teachers (dad, high school; mom, 6th grade and then middle school). My grandma was a science teacher back when women were expected to go to college to find a husband, not to get BS degrees and credentials and move out on their own. My brother teaches at two JCs. As you might expect, I have rather a lot of respect for teachers. You're brave!)

 

beachchick

 

I love my job, and both my mom and grandmother were teachers, too! I'm excited to go to work every day, which is wonderful because not too many of my friends can say that. This year I'm adding fourth grade to my list, so I've now taught all grades 1-5 (but mostly 3rd).

[Kristi Williamson]

I'm sorry for posting so late, but I JUST saw this thread and as a mother of four children, I'm just...I'm...well, I'm horrified!

 

I do not mean to offend, but allowing your child to crawl around on the floor in a public place just so you can eat without being disturbed is completely unacceptable behavior! How utterly gross!! Don't you care what your child is touching and the behaviors they're picking up? At what age do you suppose you'll decide to teach them appropriate public behavior?

 

How will that conversation go? "Little Johnny....mommy and daddy have allowed you to crawl around under a table in public for years, but now you're old enough to know better, so you'll have to stop?!?" Do you wait until they're old enough to realize that no one else is doing this and become embarrassed enough to stop themselves? Do you really think he'll thank you for that one day?!

 

And yes, dancing in the aisles at a public restaurant, even if it's the lowest class place in town, is just wrong. You are the steward of your child. Your primary job isn't raising them to be happy all the time and smilnig and seeking out their personal pleasure, regardless of the detraction they are to everyone else!

 

Your job as a parent is to raise them to be someone else's mom or dad and someone else's husband or wife and productive citizens!! It's to raise responsible adults who understand personal responsibility. And YES...that DOES start when they can walk! You don't just get to switch styles when they hit 15 and think they're going to listen to you. You begin as you mean to go on and honestly, I really hope THIS isn't how you mean to go on!

 

I'm sure you love your child, but loving them also means you WANT to raise them in a way that is going to produce responsible adults. It's not whether your three year old is happy 24/7 regardless of the bad manners he's picking up along the way! Let me assure you...NO ONE else thinks this is cute. People looking at you when you do this are NOT thinking what a cute kid you have. They're looking at you and your child and thinking what bad parents you are and how they'd like to swat little jonny on the a$$!

[cacruiserjen]

My main thoughts are that the older they get, the harder it is to begin enforcing rules and/or expectations. So why not start earlier (best from the beginning)? As a family child care provider, I have had many children come through my program. Any time one starts at about age 3 or older it is MUCH harder to get them to behave in outside situations (restaurants, stores, etc.) than about age 2 and under. So this reinforces my opinion that it's best to start earlier. You and others around you will appreciate it.

 

Crawling/playing under a table? Nope. Inappropriate behavior. Why can't they sit on the parent's lap or at the table? Participate in the conversation, color, play with a quiet toy, or read a book?? At least once a week I take my small group of young kids (currently 10 mo to 6 yrs) and meet 2 other family child care groups. At times we have had 22 kids with 4 adults. ALL of them sit nicely and eat nicely - as expected. If they don't there are consequences. (A child who is starting to sit on a chair instead of highchair might find himself back in a highchair, no treat with meal, etc.) Our favorite place to go is Sweet Tomatoes (Soup, Salad, Pasta Bar) and is mostly adults, mid-week lunchtime. Every single visit we get at least 2 people who stop by to comment on the children and tell us how much they appreciate the hard work they know it takes to teach them these things. So I think that others are affected by a child's behavior at another table. Have we had kids who threw a fit at the table? Yes. Usually they were over tired or ended up getting sick the next day. Did we handle it right away? Yes, always. And the kids knew there were consequences for behavior.

 

So in any situation, it is best to know what your child can handle and put them in situations that will be easiest for them and remember that every moment is a teaching moment.

[boating girl]

I just want to say that the parents of young children who have posted here have had some great suggestions and also, great expectations of their children. My children are grown but I have 4 grandchildren under 7 who are with us a lot. I would never tolerate the kind of behavior the OP mentioned. How can he think it's ok? Parents (and grandparents or any loving, interested adult) need to guide little ones to acceptable behavior. It makes their journey in life much easier. Love them enough to teach them proper behavior! I hope I don't encounter the OP and his child on a cruise. I love well behaved, polite children.

[toxicfairy]

Well if all else fails I have a great solution for the OP...can you say ...ROOM SERVICE :D! Then no one has to deal with the Angelic lil' darling when he/she is crawling on the floor and licking spoons. Wonder if he thinks Peeing in the pool is ok as long as no one is looking :eek:?

LOL My own kids are older now (20 and 17) but I can remember people (wait staff) comming up to me after a meal and commenting on how well behaved my kids where. ( They ran like little crazy people when we got home to release steam but they could sit like little soldiers when they needed to). When we would go some place there was a pool and they were very young ...I can remember telling them to get out when they needed to use the toilet and then adding that the water would turn green if they didn't and everyone would know...LOL.

[Mack2]

Well... my 2 cents.

 

I made this long post and I was very critical of the OP.

Then I decided... Not my kid.

 

I have 3. Currently 10, 7, and 5.

We've cruised will all three for the past 3 cruises, and the oldest has been on five with us.

 

I strongly disagree with the OP. The kid should be reminded what's appropriate... are they little adults? No... but they need to be told what's appropriate BECAUSE they are kids. (and I'm trying really hard to say nothing... so I'll end it here)

[Mack2]

OKay.... I was being nosey.. and I found this anonymous quote

 

He gets bored easily. Even I get bored waiting forever for our food, but I can expend some energy by simply complaining. It's either let him crawl under the table, or scream because we're constantly disciplining him, or we never get to go anywhere.

 

My answer to that... you are NOT disciplining him... you are TEACHING him.

A toddler doesn't know right or wrong.. they just know of something they want to do.

 

it's the job of the parent to teach the toddler what's right and wrong. The kid still wants to do what's set in their mind, and when you tell them "No", they will do what apparently works.

 

This toddler SCREAMS.

 

Apparently, screaming works for them... because in the above statement... the parent has given up. The kid gets to do what the kid wants to do, even though it is generally "wrong"

 

 

C'mon.. you don't have to be Dr. Spock about this stuff... You don't need Nanny 911.

YOU CAN DO IT!

obligatory smiley :cool:

[cacruiserjen]

HAHA Mack2 - you hit the nail on the head. Get bored while waiting? What's wrong with TALKING?? Visiting?? Knowing your family? We went to dinner with some friends and family the other night. Only at "Outback," so nothing real fancy, just not a Denny's. lol We arrived first - at 5:45. We had our 13 yr old and our 10 month old with us. Put the 10 mo old in her highchair. She was happy sitting there while hubby, our older daughter, and I talked to eachother and the kids as well. After about 10 minutes 2 parts of our group arrived. Two kids and a mom (8 and 10 yrs old) and my sister and her baby (16 months old). 16 mo old put into his highchair next to our baby. Next my parents and the dad to the two older kids arrived. So 12 of us in all. After a few minutes, baby was getting "antsy" so I got out her sippy cup of water and she enjoyed that for some time. Meanwhile I got her cheerios out and she and my nephew worked on those till some bread arrived. All the while, we are carrying on conversations with other adults AND interacting with the babies too -- both who are still sitting in their highchairs.

 

Our dinner that should have taken about an hour... turned into a nightmare. I might also mention that both babies, all 3 older kids, one mom, my sister and myself had spent the whole day at the pool. (Both babies napped for about 20 minutes in the car late in the afternoon!!! That's it for the day!) They took our order at 6:15 and it was 6:50 before we had our salads!!! Both babies eat what we eat so they were also waiting for their food. Shared salads and then went on to the wait for the main course. We ended up being there until just before 8. My own baby is typically in bed between 7:45 and 8. And here it was, that time, and she was still holding out for us. We got her out of her highchair twice - while waiting for food. She was tired and much more needy than she normally would be. My nephew - he never got out as he was tired too and if we had gotten him out, he wouldn't have wanted to go back in. lol The other 3 kids also remained in their seats. Guess what? We were all tired, quite annoyed at the speed (or lack of), and ready for bed!!! BUT we sat and enjoyed our visit and time together and the kids behaved because they were EXPECTED to!!!!

[bobsfamily]

Our dinner that should have taken about an hour... turned into a nightmare. I might also mention that both babies, all 3 older kids, one mom, my sister and myself had spent the whole day at the pool. (Both babies napped for about 20 minutes in the car late in the afternoon!!! That's it for the day!) They took our order at 6:15 and it was 6:50 before we had our salads!!! Both babies eat what we eat so they were also waiting for their food. Shared salads and then went on to the wait for the main course. We ended up being there until just before 8.

One reason I don't go to Outback... and have gotten up and left a restaurant before. I got up, went to the hostess, asked for manager and inquired how much salads cost... he looked at me quizzically... I said we waited 30+ min. for salad and it had been almost 40 min. since, so I wanted to pay for the salads and leave... he got kinda embarrassed ( I was not speaking softly), said dinner would be out shortly... 15 min. later I left $20 for salads (drinking water - 4 of us)and we went to Wendy's and home. Never been back since...

[cacruiserjen]

Ours is usually the best about service and speed... Not sure what was going on. Made me crazy!!!

[Warm Breezes]

I babysat my 13 month old nephew last night and thought of this thread. It's been a while since my kids were this young, DS is 15 and DD is 12. I don't remember them being as active as my nephew was last night. He was a Curious George and into everything. I was constantly having to take him away from cupboards and electrically cords and telling him no. I was so tired by the time his parents came to take him home. But as the adult in charge this was my job. As parents this is their job.

 

I'm afraid this is where many parents are failing. They get tired of disciplining and give up trying. Children as young as my 13 month nephew need discipline and boundries. How do they learn what is expected otherwise? My nephew is very curious right now because he just starting to learn what is expected. The earlier we start the easier it is later on. He is just now learning what the word no means. Oh how much easier it will be once that concept is learned. But some parents give up trying to teach that concept thinking the children are to young to understand or the parents don't have the patience to keep trying. This is the time to teach them and this is the time when parents need the most patience. Teach a child young, set boundries and follow through - it makes life so much easier later on.

[mjmalino]

OK, here are my 2 cents, so please take them with a grain of salt.

 

First,with regards to allowing your little one to crawl under the table. Remember, unless you are with a large party, you MAY be sitting with other passengers and their reaction to your little one crawling under the table they share with you may be different from passengers at nearby tables.

 

Second, I understand that we are talking about a three year old, but remember that it's much harder to break habits later on. Case in point, I have a dear friend with kids who are 17, 11, 9 and 5 (mine are 11 and 10). Her kids (including the 17YO) CANNOT sit quietly in a restaurant without a Nintendo DS and/or an MP3 player. If they do not have at least one of them, they are yelling and at times running around the restaurant (well the 17YO has enough restraint not to run). It is at the point that we cannot go to a restaurant together because that kind of behavior from my kids is not tolerated by me. I won't even allow them to bring electronics into a restaurant. my 2DS have learned how to act at a table, and know that if it is expected to be a long, adult like meal, that they are able to bring books to keep themselves occupied. But, it all comes down to what my DH and I have taught our kids since they were little. It is much harder to break habits (good and bad) then it is to form new ones.