Fact checking the art auction.

[lcguy]

Guess what, many many people do not live in major metropolitan areas. Speaking of another waste of $$$. :D

 

You pick on the drinks, but my point is still valid. Certainly, the sales pitches in the spa and the "promises" of those products are equally misrepresented. ;)

 

And I notice you don't mention the "at home" comparitive value of drink purchases versus art purchases. 2 months later, the drinks are long gone (unless you want to count the effect on your liver :D).

As much as I disagree with the drink price issue- yes, drinks are more expensive in major metro areas and we live where.... well we feel we need or want to live.

 

Regardless, I do agree with your point on the other sales pitches. Notice, the "problems" arise when dealing with RCI partners, ie. Park West, Steiner, etc. Hard sells, but all you need to do is "just say NO".

 

However, after reading this thread, I really would like to attend the art auction for the shear entertainment value. :D

[Tranquil Waters]

I've purchased things through Park West while on a cruise... I've been relatively happy with the stuff.

 

I'm bad, too...

There's an art gallery near me that carries much of the same art that Park West carries... I've seen some of my art in the gallery, inquired about the price of some of the serial lithographs I'd purchased... and I can say I'm happy with the result.

 

 

Definitely, a "named" guy's art will tend to be ridiculously expensive... but I have actually saved maybe around 10-15% by buying it on a cruise rather than from the gallery.

 

For example... I purchased something from an artist named Gary Benfield... A work called Verona Nights... Lithograph on paper, numbered, signed, blah blah blah

I decided I wanted to get another litho in the same series called Sienna Nights... went the to gallery, they looked it up... they wanted $400 for it (rather than the $250 I paid on the ship)

 

Never found it again by Park West... the artist retired or something.

 

 

I don't think I'd ever sell it.... don't believe the crap about the works being a big investment that you'll sell to put your kids through college or anything. Art is like jewelry... you pay a premium to get it... but when you take it to a Pawn Shop, you get crap back.

 

But it looks real nice over the piano... a second one would've balanced it out a bit more... but what can you do?

 

I think you are the type cruiser I was talking about. Glad to hear you are enjoying your purchase. :)

[Tranquil Waters]

As much as I disagree with the drink price issue- yes, drinks are more expensive in major metro areas and we live where.... well we feel we need or want to live.

 

Regardless, I do agree with your point on the other sales pitches. Notice, the "problems" arise when dealing with RCI partners, ie. Park West, Steiner, etc. Hard sells, but all you need to do is "just say NO".

 

However, after reading this thread, I really would like to attend the art auction for the shear entertainment value. :D

 

And don't forget the free cheap champaigne...... ;)

[publicpersona]

And don't forget the free cheap champaigne...... ;)

Interesting. I've never in 24 cruises attended an art auction, but after reading this thread, I am inclined to ... for the entertainment and the free champagne.

 

> serial lithographs

 

We used to call them "posters".

[lcguy]

And don't forget the free cheap champaigne...... ;)

Actually, I'll bring my "smuggled on" vodka! LOL Increases the entertainment value!!! :D

[woof22]

Actually, I'll bring my "smuggled on" vodka! LOL Increases the entertainment value!!! :D

 

We'll be smuggling on some artwork on our next cruise. Hope we don't get caught. Will put them in our watercolor-runners.

[FloridaPhil]

I do have to smile at all the dire warnings I see here. :)

 

It leaves me wondering - have none of those expressing disdain for anyone stupid or naive enough to have ever bought one of the pictures (I will agree they are probably not art) never spent any money on a ship before?

 

Because, let me tell you, you are not exactly striking a shrewd bargain in purchasing those over-priced drinks. Or have you never dropped a hundred or two in the casino? :confused: What about the way over-priced spa treatments?

 

The people I saw that bought something at the couple of auctions that I attended seemed to be having a good time making their purchases.

 

And, at least, when they get home they will have something to show for the cash they laid out.

 

Soooo, I have to wonder is one any more a sucker than the other? :D

 

Soooo, tell us, what piece(s) of 'art' did you buy? :)

[MDSue]

I just wouldn't buy anything really expensive on a ship, but they completely lost me when they wanted to charge $35 to ship a 'free print' I had 'won'. (Seemed awfully expensive to ship a piece of rolled up paper in a tube.) So I told them no thanks. That was the first and last auction I ever sat through.

I sat through three art auctions on my first cruise because I wanted to win one of the "free prints". I finally won [well my son did for me] and was a bit miffed at the $35 dollar shipping fee. Once home, it cost me $145 to frame it. I do have to say that I love the print, so i'm glad I got it. I haven't sat through any more auctions though. There is nothing that I want to pay for, but people seem to have fun so to each his own. Value is in the eye of the beholder.

I think cruising just turns us into shopaholics- my weakness is those "cruise-sponsored" jewelry stores with their equally "stellar" reputations.

I swear I'm going to quit though:)

[Mack2]

> serial lithographs

 

We used to call them "posters".

 

Yes!

but "Limited Edition" posters!

 

 

 

IMO, Art is like jewelry.... You buy it because it looks good.

Don't expect to make money off of it... just like jewelry... I mean, you CAN... but not anywhere what you paid for it.

 

You pay for the name... Just like you can get some nice silver from some vendor at the beach in Mexico... or you can spend much MORE money on "Tiffany" brand silver.

[grand isle joe]

I've purchased things through Park West while on a cruise... I've been relatively happy with the stuff.

 

I'm bad, too...

There's an art gallery near me that carries much of the same art that Park West carries... I've seen some of my art in the gallery, inquired about the price of some of the serial lithographs I'd purchased... and I can say I'm happy with the result.

 

 

Definitely, a "named" guy's art will tend to be ridiculously expensive... but I have actually saved maybe around 10-15% by buying it on a cruise rather than from the gallery.

 

For example... I purchased something from an artist named Gary Benfield... A work called Verona Nights... Lithograph on paper, numbered, signed, blah blah blah

I decided I wanted to get another litho in the same series called Sienna Nights... went the to gallery, they looked it up... they wanted $400 for it (rather than the $250 I paid on the ship)

 

Never found it again by Park West... the artist retired or something.

 

 

I don't think I'd ever sell it.... don't believe the crap about the works being a big investment that you'll sell to put your kids through college or anything. Art is like jewelry... you pay a premium to get it... but when you take it to a Pawn Shop, you get crap back.

 

But it looks real nice over the piano... a second one would've balanced it out a bit more... but what can you do?

 

Glad to hear of a great memory from your cruise.I'll bet everytime you look at the picture it brings you right back to that time. Enjoy!:)

[Mack2]

Glad to hear of a great memory from your cruise.I'll bet everytime you look at the picture it brings you right back to that time. Enjoy!:)

 

Well... in all honesty... not really.

 

So many cruises... they all blend in after a while... I do remember times when my wife was pissed off at me because I bought something... but not the specific cruise.

[compman9]

To think, people worry about Somalian pirates - art auctions are the biggest crime on the high seas. LOL

 

So many people justify their purchase after the fact, by claiming they really like it and it wasn't for profit.

They must have spent hours on eBay before their cruise looking at the extraordinary range of far better quality and miles better value, prints, photos and paintings before they decided 'Oh I know, the dozen or so prints I will see on the ship will be a far better bet, especially if it comes in that bashed up frame at those hugely inflated prices.'

 

Even the Champagne is fake (if it's not from France etc.)

[silentbob007]

If you don't like art auctions, fine, but I don't think there's a need to start playing the "I'm right, you're wrong" game that every single internet message board argument devolves into is there?

[lcguy]

Yes!

but "Limited Edition" posters!

 

 

 

IMO, Art is like jewelry.... You buy it because it looks good.

Don't expect to make money off of it... just like jewelry... I mean, you CAN... but not anywhere what you paid for it.

 

You pay for the name... Just like you can get some nice silver from some vendor at the beach in Mexico... or you can spend much MORE money on "Tiffany" brand silver.

Well said. If you "like" something and buy it, great. If after purchasing there's some buyer's remorse, oh well....

 

"Art" like jewelry should be purchased for the visual value not the monetary value.

[Hobiecat01]

DW and I have attended a few art auctions aboard but have only purchased one piece. It was a piece that we really wanted and not purchased for investment. (It did not cost a ton either...) Since then (about ten years ago) the piece has appreciated nicely. But I probably would not do it again.

 

On our last cruise there was a couple in the auctions buying right and left. They said they were art dealers and found some of the pieces to be very good buys. As a layman, I have no idea. At the last auction of the week, the couple said they had purchased over $25,000 in art for resale in their gallery. Go figure. I agree with the poster who said buyer beware... I guess it's like anything else, buy it only if you know (think) it is a good buy.

-----------------------

Sea ya!

Ron and Lee

Canton, Ga

Proud RCCL Platinum Member

"In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is freedom,

in water there is bacteria." – Ben Franklin

We are proud Oasis Camel Cruiser – April 17, 2010

The Oasis Camels Website

Previous Cruises – 59 Days at Sea!

Carnival Mardis Gras - 3 Day Bahamas - April 1982

Carnival Destiny - 7 Days Western Carib. - April 1998

Princess Grand Princess - 7 Days Eastern Carib. - April 1999

Princess Sea Princess - 7 Days Western Carib. - March 2000

Princess Grand Princess - 7 Days Western Carib. - March 2002

RCCL Navigator of the Seas - 7 Days Western Carib. - March 2003

RCCL Mariner of the Seas - 7 Days Western Carib. - April 2005

RCCL Freedom of the Seas - 7 Days Western Carib. - 6/18 - 6/25/2006

RCCL Liberty of the Seas - 7 Days Eastern Carib. - 7/19 - 7/26/08

Planned Cruises

RCCL Oasis of the Seas – Our Friends Cruise - April 17, 2010

RCCL Allure of the Seas – Our Neighborhood Cruise - 2011

The BIG One - Southeast Asia 14 day – 2012?

Princess Cruises - The Med – 14 day – 2013?

[aurelius180]

DW and I have attended a few art auctions aboard but have only purchased one piece. It was a piece that we really wanted and not purchased for investment. (It did not cost a ton either...) Since then (about ten years ago) the piece has appreciated nicely. But I probably would not do it again.

 

On our last cruise there was a couple in the auctions buying right and left. They said they were art dealers and found some of the pieces to be very good buys. As a layman, I have no idea. At the last auction of the week, the couple said they had purchased over $25,000 in art for resale in their gallery. Go figure. I agree with the poster who said buyer beware... I guess it's like anything else, buy it only if you know (think) it is a good buy.

 

 

Quite honestly I find many of the galleries to be just as deceptive to newbies as the art auctions on cruise ships. Particularly the galleries in port. Not to say I wouldn't buy anything at either place but take what they say with a grain of salt.

[trajan]

Because, let me tell you, you are not exactly striking a shrewd bargain in purchasing those over-priced drinks. Or have you never dropped a hundred or two in the casino? What about the way over-priced spa treatments?

 

lol That is bizarre.

Based on what I have read about the art auctions, based on all these allegations going around, for it to be similar the bar would have to occasionally sell non-alcoholic drinks in place of alcoholic drinks, charge for drinks they never deliver, lie about what is in the drinks, charge a lot more than they are, charge gross amounts for premium liquor that is actually crap and give outright promise in writing that the drink is a good deal and will get you laid. I've encountered one or two of those things but it generally gets people complaining.

The casino would have to sometimes intentionally not pay winners, misrepresent the odds and payouts (lol I'm trying to imagine a casino doing that) even putting it in writing, put ringers into poker games to drive up pots and when you go to cash in your chips sometimes they just take your chips and give you counterfeit money.

For the spa, well, etc.

[Puffinater]

lol That is bizarre.

Based on what I have read about the art auctions, based on all these allegations going around, for it to be similar the bar would have to occasionally sell non-alcoholic drinks in place of alcoholic drinks, charge for drinks they never deliver, lie about what is in the drinks, charge a lot more than they are, charge gross amounts for premium liquor that is actually crap and give outright promise in writing that the drink is a good deal and will get you laid. I've encountered one or two of those things but it generally gets people complaining.

The casino would have to sometimes intentionally not pay winners, misrepresent the odds and payouts (lol I'm trying to imagine a casino doing that) even putting it in writing, put ringers into poker games to drive up pots and when you go to cash in your chips sometimes they just take your chips and give you counterfeit money.

For the spa, well, etc.

 

Well said. Big difference in selling and misrepresenting.

[compman9]

If you don't like art auctions, fine, but I don't think there's a need to start playing the "I'm right, you're wrong" game that every single internet message board argument devolves into is there?

 

I am afraid I couldn't disagree more. Their main 'victims' are the uninitiated. Hence the thousands of complaints and criticisms of their service.

 

There is no right and wrong, except the art auctions themselves. It is a scam that all passengers should be made aware of. Many of us that have cruised several times fully know what we are getting into, but what about the first time cruisers that have never been to an auction before and get drawn into their expert patter?

 

If they had Caveat Emptor tattooed on their foreheads I would probably agree with you.

[Islandbear]

I think Art Auctions are great!

 

I know for a fact that there are auctions where you can get signed Gary Benfield prints for under a hundred dollars!

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/Gary-Benfield-THE-FAN-Hand-Embellished-Gold-Leaf-LE-S-N_W0QQitemZ290370796862QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item439b72bd3e

 

EBAY!

[lcguy]

I think Art Auctions are great!

 

I know for a fact that there are auctions where you can get signed Gary Benfield prints for under a hundred dollars!

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/Gary-Benfield-THE-FAN-Hand-Embellished-Gold-Leaf-LE-S-N_W0QQitemZ290370796862QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item439b72bd3e

 

EBAY!

Umm... I think we're talking about the "Art Auctions At Sea" run by Park West on this forum, not Ebay.... :rolleyes:

 

I personally don't understand that with the bad press why RCI continues to partner with Park West? :confused:

 

An interesting link here: http://www.fineartadvocacy.com/articles/park-west-galleries-royal-caribbean-cruises-art-auction-fraud.php or here...

 

http://www.fineartregistry.com/mediacenter/2009/removed-from-royal-caribbean-cruise-for-criticizing-art-auction-practices.php

 

As said before caveat emptor and "There's a sucker born every day." Thank goodness it wasn't me. ;) (That I know of.)

[Islandbear]

Umm... I think we're talking about the "Art Auctions At Sea" run by Park West on this forum, not Ebay.... :rolleyes:

 

 

Umm... I think I was showing that the "Art" sold by Park West for $500 plus shipping and framing could be bought for $68 on EBAY...:rolleyes:

[aurelius180]

 

An interesting link here: http://www.fineartadvocacy.com/articles/park-west-galleries-royal-caribbean-cruises-art-auction-fraud.php or here...

 

 

"I was told that all the pieces I bought were good investment pieces, with a minimum of a 20% increase per year."

 

Quite honestly if you're buying an item because the seller tells you it will increase 20% a year you deserve to lose all your money.

[lcguy]

Umm... I think I was showing that the "Art" sold by Park West for $500 plus shipping and framing could be bought for $68 on EBAY...:rolleyes:

I guess you're assuming that you're posting to the "Kreskin" forum? LOL

[Mack2]

http://cgi.ebay.com/GARY-BENFIELD-Sienna-Nights-LIMITED-EDITION-SERIGRAPH_W0QQitemZ350275549001QQcmdZViewItemQQptZArt_Prints?hash=item518e0cb749

 

OOoooo!!! eBay has the print I was looking for!

 

Hmmm..... it's been so many years...

 

 

 

 

Anyway... look up Park West on the internet and find this as well:

http://www.ripoffreport.com/Art-Galleries/Rip-off-Report-Inves/rip-off-report-investigation-3zc4e.htm

While Rip-off Report does not endorse any company, including Park West, overall, our research demonstrated to us that Park West is an extremely solid, reliable company that stands behind its artwork and customer service.

 

My experience with the Art Auctions has always been pretty positive. It's not for everyone... While you can go and buy some "Named" artist for a lot of money at a gallery or on a cruise... or you can buy something they have hanging on the wall at Bed, Bath, and Beyond.

 

Whatever floats your boat.

 

Just like you can go to the beach in Cancun and get a nice silver charm for $10, or you can go to Tiffany's and get a nice silver charm for $300.

 

 

I guess buyer's remorse is harder to swallow when you've bought something drawn on a piece of paper.

I remember Park West one cruise was feeding people a story about some Rembrandt etchings they got a hold of. Rembrandt is dead... he made some beautiful paintings... Some gallery got a hold of some of the guy's etchings, made limited copies of them, and sold them through Park West.

I had two words for them:

Ugh and Lee

They wanted, literally, THOUSANDS for these ugly things... They're Rembrandts! A GREAT investment! the auctioneer would say.

 

No. Not for ugly it isn't.