Greek Economy could affect travel plans

[numbersix]

We North Americans live such sheltered lives sometimes. We should recognize that, while there is a heck of a battle going on between economic strata, social classes, as well as ideologies (sound familiar) in Greece as well as all across Europe, if not the globe (which will continue for some time), we should also realize that protests and demonstrations of this type are a sort of European 'sport'--they [B][I]happen all the time. [/I][/B]I live in Toronto, and last week, at the G20 summit, there were street protests, with (small) running mobs, breaking windows, and torching a few police cars. While most sane people here were absolutely repulsed by such behaviour, I got to thinking that, in some parts of the world, days like that would be mild ones indeed, and, however repulsed we were at the proceedings, realize that, again, in some parts of the world, such behaviour would be met with real bullets, and, perhaps, tanks. From what I can see of recent work 'actions' in Greece, it's all been pretty mild by their standards. They get hot--they get bothered--so they protest--that's what they do. Also keep in mind that these protests tend to be somewhat location-specific...say, protesting in front of the Greek parliament, or in Syntagma square--it's not like the 'Terror' in France in the 1780s.

We sail to Athens and the Greek Isles in early August--I can't wait!

[denniti]

Agreed. The G20 fiasco was not a proud Canadian moment - keep it peaceful if you want to be heard. Hopefully it will be the same in Athens, when we get there. We are sailing RCI Brilliance of the Seas at the beginning of August. We're a family of 4 from Ottawa. Probably will book an excursion through the ship, to play it safe. . .

[therhodes]

[quote name='rich_cathybrock']And you know what? If there are reports of issues there, I will simply uses my unnlimited spa pass while docked in Piraeus, and save my money for another port in Mykonos or Santorini.
Their striking will only perpetuate an already dire problem, dragging them further into debt, and requiring additional austerity measures to remain solvent.
I'll say it again - we here in the US could learn a lot from what's going on there...[/QUOTE]



You will truly miss a great city with lots of history....that's too bad!

Strikes happen somewhere everyday in Europe and have been happening for years (decades/centuries!!).....how does this perpetuate their "dire" problem???

????? Don't get this, but then I'm not from the US.

[zqvol]

For those of you who are concerned with the protests. Here is a Gerek protest held June 5, 2010. As you can see there is more violence at a football game tailgate event. The park in the background is Syntagma Square.

[img]http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4069/4693947269_0797a1204d_z_d.jpg[/img]

[rich_cathybrock]

[quote name='therhodes']You will truly miss a great city with lots of history....that's too bad!

Strikes happen somewhere everyday in Europe and have been happening for years (decades/centuries!!).....how does this perpetuate their "dire" problem???
o
????? Don't get this, but then I'm not from the US.[/quote]

I have been to Athens 10 times and it is one of my favorite cities. Few have it's mix of people, history, art, architecture, culture or cuisine.

However I seem to remember a pregnant woman was killed in a bank not more than a few months ago during one of these strikes, and I have seen enough video footage to judge for myself that I don't want to find myself in the middle of this while on a vacation.

I think human self preservation and safety are more than merely "American" traits. I want more than anything to see Athens again, and pray we can do so safely, but if there is talk of major unrest on the day we dock I will opt for the safety of the ship.

[Fblack]

More bad news, More strikes scheduled:

 

"Greece's Unions Call Another General Strike For July 8 "

 

ATHENS (Dow Jones)--Greece's two main umbrella unions said Thursday that they have called for another general 24 hour strike for Thursday, July 8 over proposed pension and labor reforms.

 

http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20100701-710396.html

[pacmom]

Just returned last nite from a 2 week stay in Greece--Mykonos, Santorini, Crete and Athens. On the islands there was no evidence of violence. We were on Crete for the June 29th strike. There was a very small union demonstration near our hotel the Galaxy. The banks were closed, ATMs fine. It was like a bank holiday everyone out enjoying the day. The demonstration in Athens that day was much larger--about 10,000, according to a couple at our hotel the Athens Gate. It was a great vacation, wouldn't change plans because of the union strikes. Just avoid Athens where most of the demonstrations are large. Pat

[Fblack]

Tue Jul 6, 2010: "Greek strike to ground flights for hours on July 8"

 

ATHENS (Reuters) - Flights to and from Greece will be grounded for four hours on Thursday when air traffic controllers will join public and private sector unions in a strike against government austerity measures.

 

Air traffic controllers said they would walk off the job between 8 a.m. and 12 p.m. British time to protest against a controversial pension reform but also to ask for payment of overtime.

 

Air traffic controllers said they would also stage a one-day strike on July 14.

 

http://af.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idAFTRE6653IW20100706?sp=true

[MarkBearSF]

As mentioned earlier, today there is a 24 hour general strike, a 4 hour strike by air traffic controllers, and 2 protests in Syntagma Square (in front of our hotel).

 

We left the hotel a half hour before the first protest at 10:00 and headed to the touristy Plaka. There was no problem. We shopped a bit and stopped in a cafe. Heading back to the hotel, around the National Gardens (most access closed during the protests), the only evidence was a lot of police presence, staged for possible problems.

 

As we got to the square, the protests were ending - and it was the usual chanting people marching with banners, same as worldwide (including our home town of SF).

 

The hotel (King George Palace) was prepared for any problem, with the steel doors locked and curtains drawn, but it didn't appear necessary.

 

As for the air traffic strike, overhearing discussions in the lobby, the airlines rescheduled their departures and arrivals around the strike times. I'm sure that there were (and will be) some hangups, but it didn't appear to be anything extraordinary.

 

Mass transit was closed today, but taxis were plentiful. The Acropolis was open.

 

In summary - no big deal.

 

Mark

[sunsetbeachgal]

Thanks for your helpful and insightful post!

[denniti]

Thanks for the up to date info - hope you have a great holiday!

[Fblack]

MarkBearSF:

 

I am glad you had no problems in Athens. Others were not so lucky.

 

 

July 08, 2010, 2:17 PM EDT: Greek Unions Strike Amid Papandreou Pension Vote

 

"The walkout grounded flights for most of the day, kept ferries docked and shut down banks, hospitals and news media. Parliament workers were also striking, with a skeleton staff assisting today’s pension debate. Protestors ringed the finance ministry in central Athens preventing employees from entering." ... "Today’s walkout is the sixth general strike this year, and the austerity measures have sparked near-daily protests from groups ranging from lawyers to dockworkers."

 

"Olympic Airlines scrapped 28 flights today, mainly between Athens and the islands, and rescheduled another 23. Aegean Airlines canceled six. All public transport in the capital shut down and no ferries were able to sail."

 

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-07-08/greek-unions-strike-amid-papandreou-pension-vote.html

[MarkBearSF]

MarkBearSF:

 

I am glad you had no problems in Athens. Others were not so lucky.

 

 

July 08, 2010, 2:17 PM EDT: Greek Unions Strike Amid Papandreou Pension Vote

 

"The walkout grounded flights for most of the day, kept ferries docked and shut down banks, hospitals and news media. Parliament workers were also striking, with a skeleton staff assisting today’s pension debate. Protestors ringed the finance ministry in central Athens preventing employees from entering." ... "Today’s walkout is the sixth general strike this year, and the austerity measures have sparked near-daily protests from groups ranging from lawyers to dockworkers."

 

"Olympic Airlines scrapped 28 flights today, mainly between Athens and the islands, and rescheduled another 23. Aegean Airlines canceled six. All public transport in the capital shut down and no ferries were able to sail."

 

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-07-08/greek-unions-strike-amid-papandreou-pension-vote.html

 

As always, the effects of the strikes varied by what services you depended upon.

 

Note that the major effect on air were flights within Greece. Likewise the ferries. The Greeks are used to strikes, to be frank (not unlike Italians and French) - and I would expect that most scheduled around them. Yes, public transport shut down, but I saw no traffic problems and taxis were freely available (VERY different than my experience during the 4 day transit strike in New York City in 2005).

 

I sincerely doubt that any cruisers would be affected because Greek Finance Ministry employees were kept out of their building. I doubt the statement that hospitals and media were shut down. (If non-emergency surgery was delayed, I'd not be surprised) Perhaps there were no newspapers, but the Greek television channels were broadcasting (What was broadcast was Greek to me, though)

 

I don't know what the source for Bloomberg/BusinessWeek was, (...and note they're quoting from union officials who might tend to exaggerate the impact)

 

In my experience, news reports frequently give a distorted impression of the actual impact of events. For instance, after the quake in 1989, most non-US friends had a big problem explaining to their families overseas that SF was not burning to the ground because news reports of the quake replayed the same footage of the same three collapsed houses that caught fire. In fact, the damage was extremely limited and most of the city was just fine with power and electricity within a few hours. (Our damage was limited to a single $2 wine glass that walked to its death in the kitchen sink)

 

For cruisers, I still believe that the impact was minimal. ...and for savvy travelers, keeping flexible and informed is always a good thing, no matter what.

[MarkBearSF]

...In fact, the damage was extremely limited and most of the city was just fine with power and electricity within a few hours.

 

oops - I meant "phone and electricity"

 

...and re-reading my post, I REALLY DON'T think I'm unlucky although:

- I was home alone when a tornado struck our house in Mich when I was 10 (my parents were downtown buying furniture at the time)

- I was in the Loma Prieta quake in SF in '89

- I was on the Rembrandt when Premier Cruises declared bankruptcy in 2000 (but talked my way off the ship and got the on the last flight that day from Halifax to Montreal to continue my vacation - woke up to see news reports of 1700 passengers with "ruined vacations")

- I was vacationing in NY during the transit strike in 2005 (also during the recent volcano, but flights to CA were unaffected, of course)

- We were unable to visit the Louvre during a 5 day visit to Paris in '99 because of a strike

- I'm in Athens now during a general strike

 

..of course another way of looking at it is: Grand Rapids was a great place to grow up, SF is a wonderful place to live, I was one of the last people to cruise on the classic Rotterdam/Rembrandt, and I'm lucky enough to visit amazing cities like NY, Montreal, Paris and Athens!

[Fblack]

Mark:

 

I was not talking only about cruise passengers. I have a friend who was stranded in Athens trying to get to her home in another part of Greece.

 

And as for news, do you trust Cruise Critics?

 

"July 8, 2010

Latest Greece Strikes Spark Cruise Itinerary Change

 

"(10:30 a.m. EDT) -- Greek workers took to the streets today in the sixth general strike of the year, protesting the government's austerity measures related to pay and pensions, as well as changes to cabotage laws. The strikes halted public transport in Athens, including trains and ferries, and planes were grounded this morning.

 

Two cruise lines had ships scheduled to visit Athens today -- one has altered its itinerary, while the other called in the port as planned. ... Crystal Cruises' Crystal Serenity, which was originally scheduled to overnight in Athens and depart today, left the Greek capital at Midnight this morning in order to avoid the protests. The ship is calling in Navplion today, instead.

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=3980

[passthru]

We are cruising out of Athens in September so I try to keep track of our Continental flight history. Our flight Continental 104 actually left Newark early yesterday and arrived early 9:30AM in Athens. So the strike had no effect on at least this flight.

[therhodes]

Mark, how long are you in Athens for?

 

I do agree that some of news is definitely sensationalized, at least based on our experience while in Athens last month. Other than perhaps more police on the streets, we seen nothing that caused us concern. And like you we "watched" (we don't do Greek!) the news on the Greek stations and their coverage seemed to be minimal. We also watched CNN and that provided a completely different story, which appeared to be the same incident repeated over and over again.

 

The only inconvenience to anyone during our stay was a one day ferry strike and the hotel had arranged for a travel agent to come on site for a couple of days before the strike and make alternate arrangements for anyone that had to travel on that day.

 

I actually felt safer in Athens than I have when in Rome or Paris and certainly Barcelona. As always one needs to use caution and common sense when traveling anywhere, including where you live, but truly I would not change any plans for Athens based on the current news reports.

 

And if you are spending most of your time in Greece on the islands, you will see nothing out of the ordinary. They rely on their tourist season too much for any type of distruption to interfere.

 

Linda.

[MarkBearSF]

I was on the Crystal Serenity. I know they worked with all departing passengers to get flights changed (whether or not they bought from Crystal)

 

Since passengers need to check in the first day even for overnights, the flights for arriving passengers should not have been affected. So, they substituted a port for the second day (not unlike weather condition changes)

 

We leave tomorrow (Saturday)

[cruisemom42]

Cruise Critic is reporting that the most recent strike caused some places (such as the Acropolis) to close, affecting some shore excursions of visiting ships:

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=3987

 

Doesn't look like any ships are scrapping visits to Athens, however.

 

I reiterate that the problems appear to be more a matter of inconvenience than safety. I'd certainly be disappointed not to be able to visit the Acropolis if it was my one day in Athens.

[Fblack]

More unemployment hits Greece. And I assume the strikes did not help.

 

 

"Greece has been plagued by massive general strikes that have left the country reeling in what is transpiring as a nightmarish 2010 summer for the tourist industry."

 

 

"Greek media have reported that to date, 16 000 companies have declared bankruptcy in Greece since the turmoil around the country's budget began, while by the end of 2010, they are expecting a total of 60 000 firms to go under, with a further 110 000 people losing their jobs."

 

http://www.sofiaecho.com/2010/07/13/931935_greece-faces-increasing-austerity-in-2010

[Fblack]

Looks like some International flights were canceled.

 

Greece | 15.07.2010

Flights to and from Greece grounded as country faces more strikes

 

Greek public sector workers were joined on Thursday by air traffic controllers and doctors in a nationwide strike against the labor reforms and austerity measures the government has unveiled to solve its debt crisis.

 

Flights to and from Greece were grounded, hospitals operated with emergency staff only and tax, municipal and judicial offices remained closed across Greece. According to officials at Athens' International Airport, more than 60 international and domestic flights were canceled, with another 131 rescheduled. Air traffic controllers returned to the job at midday, but a backlog of flights created headaches for travelers.

 

 

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,5795120,00.html

[TLCOhio]

As we were doing our Norway Coast/Fjords cruise during the past couple weeks, I haven't had a chance to check the Greece boards lately. Sorry to read about these recent "challenges" in Greece.

 

With the announced Moody's downgrade of Ireland's finances today, these issues and many economic questions for Greece are not done or over. In Denmark, they have a 60% income tax rate and a 25% VAT fee hidden into the price of all items. In Norway, a beer in Bergen runs $12 and you can easily drop $65 for a simple lunch at a pizza place. Not cheap or getting better on these costs with their tax structures, government debts, etc. Fixing Greece's finance is far from "done" and there will be many bumps on the road to recovery there in the coming months and years.

 

In today's Wall Street Journal article, they noted: "While Europe's fiscal crisis has abated in recent weeks, the Moody's downgrade is one of several recent reminders that the situation remains far from settled."

 

A New York Times story today noted: "Hungary Resists New Budget Cuts Despite Pressure: Markets in Budapest were rattled after the government insisted that it would not impose further austerity measures this year despite pressure from its international creditors."

 

THANKS! Terry in Ohio

 

For more details, great visuals, etc., from our July 1-16 Norway Coast/Fjords/Arctic Circle Silver Cloud experiences:

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1227923

[ROCruiser]

We were on the NCL Gem and the June 29 General Strike in Athens caused us to change our itinerary. Instead of docking in Athens 6/29, we went to Santorini. We then went to Athens just for half a day on the day we were suppose to be in Napflion. Napflion was canceled.

[TLCOhio]

We were on the NCL Gem and the June 29 General Strike in Athens caused us to change our itinerary. Instead of docking in Athens 6/29, we went to Santorini. We then went to Athens just for half a day on the day we were suppose to be in Napflion. Napflion was canceled.

 

Your situation worked out fairly well. You still got Athens and added Santorini. There are nice things in and around Napflion, but it shows good adjustments and creativity by your cruise line.

 

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

 

For more details, great visuals, etc., from our July 1-16 Norway Coast/Fjords/Arctic Circle Silver Cloud experiences:

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1227923

[rian90]

The Greek government was caught with its hands in the cookie jar. The past administration was incredibly corrupt and with the help of US banks led Greece to the situation they are in now. Unfortunately, the time to warn the US would have been a few years ago, before we reduced regulations on the banks and Wall Street. A bit late now...

 

Every economic student can tell you that borrowing money to create jobs and help a lagging economy is a good thing...its how businesses get started in the first place. However, when a government is corrupt and hides money and investments from its own populace, using the money to build up an artificial wealth in Greece, that is where the problems occur. Now the Greek people are dealing with severe austerity measures and the strikes are a result of this. My guess is if the rich folks in the US decided to force the rest of us to work for lower wages, cut teachers dramatically, took away much of our benefits, cut police and other essential services, we would take to the streets too. Well, only if there isn't some reality show playing on TV....

 

I don't blame the Greek people.

 

This, however, is not a place to come for politics. I don't know if there is a forum for that here, but there should be because I get tired of all the remarks I see sometimes here. The US is very divided right now. Do we have to deal with that on a cruise forum?