Great article on Unrealistic Expectations

[taxmantoo]

Should expectation only be geared to price paid?

 

Obviously not for the people who pay "hundreds" of dollars for "nice and classy" jeans and baseball caps and then want to wear them for a "five-star dining" experience in a "sophisticated ambience" ... but let's not go there ;)

[iancal]

The cruise lines are also to blame, in part, for some of the pricing issues. It was not that long ago that cruise lines brochures/catalogues came with a price list. That price list was essentially a marketing tool so that those who were not familiar with pricing would think that they were getting a 50 percent discount on a cruise. Similar to how jewlery and mattresses are sold today......and people actually buy into the concept because everyone wants a 'deal'. If you start schlepping your product like this, it is difficult to reset consumer expectations.

[ibethenanya]

Thanks, Brian. This was a very good article.

We still say as mentioned in other post that cruising is the best "bang" for your buck available. Where else can we see the world for the price we pay?

And we find we get excellent service the majority of the time with which ever line we use.

[Taxguy77]

Good article. One thing that isn't considered in the article though, is that on the same ship for the same cruise, there are people who have paid $59 per day for their cruise along with those who have paid $750+ per day depending upon the category cabin they have selected. Therein could be a hint of a problem.

 

Thanks for posting the article, Brian.

 

Excellent addition to a very good article.

[Randyk47]

Part of th expectation gap is caused by the cruise lines themselves by way of their advertising and marketing campaigns. It has taken years for people to change their expectation of the airline industry vis a vis what onboard services will be offered and how they be treated. My fear is that the cruise lines will follow the path of the airline industry...an industry where notwithstanding what people say, they always gravitate to the lowest possible fare.

 

Sure the cruise lines have generated this. On the very page of the subject article we see an ad with a country club poster couple being served coffee on their expansive veranda by a uniformed steward. Show me a cruise line that advertises their food, cabins, and entertainment is at least as good as a Holiday Inn. It's hype and while the experienced cruisers here don't buy it the newbie cruiser probably does.

[NJ Fred]

I cannot concur with many who agree with "Kuki's" commentary. Cruising has deteriorated. Once upon a time before the Mickey Arison's of the corporate world began building their nautical empires, cruising was a vacation that stood out from the plasticized Holiday Inns, etc.

 

Home Lines, Sitmar, et al., were the pride-filled enterprise of owners who looked above and beyond the spreadsheet and took it personally whenever onboard service fell below a customer's rightful expectation.

 

Yes, cruising was a step up as a vacation. A world where reality was left at the pier safe in the knowledge that it would be there when the vessel tied up at cruise's end.

 

It is not at issue that there is a difference in quality of food, ports, cabins, etc. based on the per diem fee that should be understood. But the overall degradation of the industry vis-a-vis service and pride-in-product cannot be denied.

[iancal]

Some of those cruise lines of past went out of business-bankrupt because of poor business management or failure to respond to changing customer demands.

 

People who long for this type of cruise vacation can still have it IF they are willing to pay the same prices in today's money. My guess is that if you compare the cost of cruising on a HAL or a Home lines from years ago to the price of cruising on Regent, Crystal, Seabourne etc today, that the prices would be similar-adjusted for inflation. The real question is are they still willing to pay for it given the choices and the prices that are now available.

 

The expectation that one can get yesterday's standard of cruises at the price of todays mass market prices from HAL, Princess, etc or even at a slightly higher price, is not realistic.

[Randyk47]

After I posted my comment I was sitting here at the computer and decided to do some cost analysis. I remember very clearly what I paid for my first cabin on the Ryndam in 1995. I found a site that calculates the present value of that money based on the inflation rates over the years. The result was basically, all things being equal, that same cruise today ought to cost about 50% more. Our upcoming Maasdam cruise is pretty darn close to that 1995 cruise in the same cabin category and basically the same itinerary on pretty much the same ship. The cost increase? A whole 11% from the 1995 price. Hmmm.......and I wonder why things aren't quite what they were in 1995.

[NJ Fred]

The cruise lines I cited in my earlier post within this thread went out of business because no one in the family was willing to roll up their sleeves and carry the family business forward.

 

Therein is my point. Cruise lines, for the most part, have become chains. Entities with the same personal touch as a Walmart, Sears and Roebuck, etc. It is akin to the chain stores you find in a mall compared to an sole proprietor who went the extra mile to build and maintain a clientèle.

 

We swallow the hyperbole in brochures, videos and other Madison Avenue propaganda like it was the finest of candies. It is correct to say that finer foodstuffs, fluffier pillows and the like can be found aboard lines whose per diems are outside the reach of many.

 

But it is grossly incorrect to try and justify a deterioration in service via that same criteria.

 

And service should be the strong suit of an industry that is moving from white gloves to mittens. Tragic as that might be.

[Taxguy77]

Are prices lower in constant dollars? YES

Are services lower? Some; more tables per waiter, more cabins per steward,

but just as many serving drinks and selling trinkets.

Is food quality lower? :eek:

Is cruising still the best bargain for vacations? :confused::confused:

[soldham]

The cruise lines I cited in my earlier post within this thread went out of business because no one in the family was willing to roll up their sleeves and carry the family business forward.

 

Therein is my point. Cruise lines, for the most part, have become chains. Entities with the same personal touch as a Walmart, Sears and Roebuck, etc. It is akin to the chain stores you find in a mall compared to an sole proprietor who went the extra mile to build and maintain a clientèle.

 

We swallow the hyperbole in brochures, videos and other Madison Avenue propaganda like it was the finest of candies. It is correct to say that finer foodstuffs, fluffier pillows and the like can be found aboard lines whose per diems are outside the reach of many.

 

But it is grossly incorrect to try and justify a deterioration in service via that same criteria.

 

And service should be the strong suit of an industry that is moving from white gloves to mittens. Tragic as that might be.

 

I just have to take a moment to compliment your writing style. Regardless of the content or whether I agree or not it is a pleasure to see someone take the time to use the English language so well.

[NJ Fred]

I thank you for the kind kudos. Allow me to compliment you, as well.

 

An open exchange of ideas and opinions is, most definitely, enriching.

 

Thank you again.

[SwissMyst]

Since we recently traveled on the old "Love Boat" sister ship (Island Princess) now plying the waters as the MV Discovery, my feelings are mixed about the good old days of cruising when the "Love Boat" became the popular image of cruising.

 

Cabins exceedingly small (132 sq ft) in comparison to cabins today. Crude industrial-look bathrooms with only showers for the most part. Many barriers to step over both inside and outside of cabin making it virtually impossible for handicap accessibility. Weak A/C and ventilation systems. Port holes on lower floors that had to be covered in rough seas. No balconies. Small capacity elevators and lots of stairs. No wrap-around deck. Tiny swimming pools. Limited food service. Combo show lounge and lecture hall.

 

But it got us there and back and because of its small size we got into local ports with ease. We were fed, we survived the discomforts, and had a glorious time. In fact we thought these were the "good old days" of ship travel. Everyone still dressed for dinner. And the ship was small enough to know the captain on a first name basis in short order.

[airlink diva]

This is from another cruising website - I hope it doesn't get pulled from here because the writer hits the nail on the head as far as many folks simply expecting too much from their cruises:

 

http://www.cruisemates.com/blog/201009141709/justified-expecting-cruise-luxury-vacation/

 

What do you think?

 

Excellent article! This is one hit it right on the nail!!

[Tailskid]

Great stuff. Yes, I have found that there is always something that (to me) is less than perfect but in saying that I am guilty as charged. However, I have never done a cruise that I did not thoroughly enjoy regardless of any "imperfections" - that's why I keep coming back for more! My guess is that those whining complainers keep coming back too. And that's the realism!

Tailskid

[m steve]

I don't expect superb accomidations and a fawning staff for $100-150 a day as I would find spending $500 a day on the luxury cruise ships for a balcony cabin that is larger than we book on HAL. I also don't spend $500-1000 a night to stay at a luxury resort or hotel. I have had excellent experiences at places for $200-300 a night for both of us, meals extra.

[scopewest]

My first cruise was on the Carnival Jubilee in 1995. We had the "suite" cabin. I paid more for that cabin than I'm paying now for my upcoming Oosterdam cruise in an SY guarantee, said price also including transportation to the pier plus hotel room.

 

We also live in a major resort city. During the summer you can get the five star resorts at a great deal, $100/$199 night for rooms that normally sell for around $300/400 night during high season. But that does not include food, entertainment, and the hotel never once leaves its location to take you to another "city." Cruising is still a good value IMO.

 

As for it's not the same elegant experience of yesteryear, I doubt the people who sailed third class on the old ocean liners described their experience as elegant!

[SwissMyst]

My reaction often when I read many of the critical reports about ships I have also sailed on is "Oh yeah, I guess so ", like (zut alors!) water fountain displays that were not operating.

 

Yeah, we noticed it too but it never went beyond that in our mind as a deficiency or reason not to enjoy all the other aspects of the cruise.

 

One funny story while on a Crystal cruise allegedly known for their impeccable service was watching the nose print my DH made on an impeccably clean and clear glass wall going out to the Lido area which he mistook for open space and banged into it nose first. We watched that nose print for three full days before it as finally polished out. Zut alors! What unsanitary shabbiness for this 6 star ship.

[Jacqueline]

Two points- the cruiselines invite the crticism by consistantly over promising. I think most of us today are used to unrealistic images... But the print also compounds the misinformation, especially when it coes to the dining experience. Menus are shorter, courses are fewer, many unique offerings of the past are no longer offered, the experience is increasingly informal (recent read of dress suggestions does not even prohibit jeans for casual evenings!). Perhaps the line between dungarees and jeggings has become a bit to hard to distinguish.

 

On the glories of days gone by, not so much in some areas and yes in others.The cabins were tiny,with twin beds. Hardly anyone ever had a balcony. I remember arm chair aerobics on the QE2 as a legit offering. The Canyon Spa was below decks. Gyms? I don't think so! However the libraries and non-revenue producing areas of the ship were much better and bigger. There were no extra charges and booze was CHEAP. The food was often sourced locally. The waitstaffs were often Italian and just fabulous. (This is one of the things that HAL does right in the MDR with their Indonesian staff and the strong service of culture). Passengers who sailed on cruise ships knew they were on a cruise ship, not a hotel. In terms of dress I have to say that back in 1984 my DH of the time and other gents at our table did not wear a tie on formal night on Cunard. The fact that I still remember this says something!They were pretty much captains of industry in the Real World- but were in the Caribbean spirit for holiday and felt just a little mischevious and daring. But I still remember going to stand in line to get my jewelry at the ships safety deposit boxes for formal nights and the women all did dressed to kill.

I digressed!!

[room010]

As for it's not the same elegant experience of yesteryear, I doubt the people who sailed third class on the old ocean liners described their experience as elegant!

 

Good point but remember that "back in the day" when air travel was limited and very expensive people used liners to travel from A to B, especially to cross the Atlantic. It wasn't necessarily a "cruise", ie, vacation in the sense we understand it today although those who could afford to do it First Class were treated like royalty.

 

It is very interesting to break down a modern cruise on the basis of cost per day. Not only does it put most people's "complaints" into some kind of perspective, it also shows what incredibly good value for money a cruise can be. You get a LOT of bang for your buck - so quit whining already! :D

[pascalburns]

makes for intresting reading:)

[Hawaiidan]

To Swissmist..... You cant get 400 more in value a day on the luxury lines

 

Not true.... you sure has heck can and more.... I have sailed for many days at the 800 to 1000 a day fares of the true "6star ships" there are only about 8 or so ships in this . I will cite Regent Seven Seas experience

1. all liquor is without charge includung some very fine liquor and premier and grand cru wines

2. There is no extra charge for eating anything and you can order a custom banquet for up to a dozen friends... no charge, copmplete with pared wines

3. Shore excursions are included.. no extre charge

4. you have a fully stocked wet bar in your room

5. Internet is unlimited and free.

6. 4 dinining venues Cordon Bleu of Paris, The regulad dining roon, an Italian bistro and a speciality steak and seafood place.... all no charge

7. no lines anywhere... no waiting 600 to 700 pax on a HAL size ship

8. OutsTANDING ENRICHMENT Paul Williams --the composer , 3 week course in watercollor painting, Oceanography class 3 weeks, by Jean michel Costeau (sp)

9. Having the captain ask you if you want him to sail close to a place that interested you....

10 a blank room sevice menu... write on it anything you want... lobster omlet and grilled baby lamb chops daily

11 A desk BBQ is lobster, sword fish, filets, cracked crab oysters on the half shell, ceasar salad.. crab claws.... Buurger and pizza ??? if you

request

12 since all cabins are suites the all have the same ammenities pretty much the cheap cabing are 350 sq ft

13 NO tipping at all

 

So yes you can easily get $400 more a day without trying.

I like HAl for its value... it is not a lux line but a nice one. I would never thus expect to get luxury on it to the standards of what is offering on other lines...it just isnt going to happen.

 

And yes you hear the same complaints as on all ships whether Carnival or Crystal... but a whole lot less

I doo agree that the cheaper the person the louder their voice..... and some just love to complain.. to show off how cool they think they are

[SwissMyst]

To Swissmist..... You cant get 400 more in value a day on the luxury lines

 

Not true.... you sure has heck can and more.... I have sailed for many days at the 800 to 1000 a day fares of the true "6star ships" there are only about 8 or so ships in this . I will cite Regent Seven Seas experience

1. all liquor is without charge includung some very fine liquor and premier and grand cru wines

($6 glass of champagne at dinner on wine card)

2. There is no extra charge for eating anything and you can order a custom banquet for up to a dozen friends... no charge, copmplete with pared wines

(1500 calories max a day)

3. Shore excursions are included.. no extre charge

(Approx $60-100 per port)

4. you have a fully stocked wet bar in your room

( uhhhh, don't drink except one glass of wine with dinner - $0)

 

5. Internet is unlimited and free.

($0 - I am on vacation to get away from it all)

6. 4 dinining venues Cordon Bleu of Paris, The regulad dining roon, an Italian bistro and a speciality steak and seafood place.... all no charge

($20 Pinnacle option, Canaletto $0)

7. no lines anywhere... no waiting 600 to 700 pax on a HAL size ship

(15 minutes saved at $100 an hour = $25)

8. OutsTANDING ENRICHMENT Paul Williams --the composer , 3 week course in watercollor painting, Oceanography class 3 weeks, by Jean michel Costeau (sp)

( You have to pay me to name drop - credit minus $50)

9. Having the captain ask you if you want him to sail close to a place that interested you....

(Lost time responding to 600 individual detour requests - $0)

10 a blank room sevice menu... write on it anything you want... lobster omlet and grilled baby lamb chops daily

(1500 calories a day - no bonus)

11 A desk BBQ is lobster, sword fish, filets, cracked crab oysters on the half shell, ceasar salad.. crab claws.... Buurger and pizza ??? if you

request

(1500 calories a day - no bonus)

12 since all cabins are suites the all have the same ammenities pretty much the cheap cabing are 350 sq ft

$142 approx a day for suite)

 

13 NO tipping at all

($11 a day)

 

So yes you can easily get $400 more a day without trying.

 

Naw, I only got about $240 a day over an outside room on HAL. Less since we always get a balcony room, at least.

 

But I hear what you are trying to say. I learned from my Crystal experience, you can only eat so much food, mass produced food anywhere is only so good, after a few days of novelty I find myself settling in to pretty much the same thing, and having all the caviar you want to order isn't a treat when it is mushy, canned, and off flavor.

 

So back to my own premise since I cruise to travel, I get to travel twice or three times as much on HAL ships than blowing it on one trip on one of the luxury lines. Wish I could do it all, but most of what Regent offers as extras is just of too little value when it all adds up for me. YMMV

[cruisecrasy]

Should expectation only be geared to price paid?

 

What of those who pay a very low price? They should get lesser choices in the dining room but those who pay more get better?

 

That's a bad place to go. Sounds very much like 'Cunard's classes'.

 

 

Actually that is exactly what is happening onboard except its not the usual old fashioned physical segregation - its just the $ kind....Of course, one cld say having a Neptune Lounge JUST for suite guests IS a form of physical 'class' segregation :)

Those who pay more get more and shld - it's always been thus and always will be!

 

I so agree with u though, this shldn't be implemented in the MDR...and not only wld it alienate cruisers, it wld be a logistical nightmare, wld cost too much & all those so important lower cruise fares wld get higher - bad for business..:)

Folks who pay more can eat in the specialty restaurants & get 'better' food &/or different ambience while those who pay less eat in the buffet, MDR etc..

 

Just MO but the meals & service will now always be geared to a less than 5 star standard so the cruiselines can offer those so loved lower cruise fares....which enables lots more folks to cruise who, if relying on Cunard etc, wldn't be able to afford it..

Those though, who pay higher cruise fares, do get more - bigger cabins with more amenities & perks (like the access to the Neptune L)..plus they can pay even more if they want 5 star dining but more importantly, so can those who pay lower cruise fares IF they want to!!

 

I love reg. cruiselines & also cruise Seabourne, Cunard, Regent & Crystal when I want a different experience!

 

To each his own & aren't choices great :)

[drcpa]

A story, if you'll indulge me.

Years ago, after military service, my wedding, and starting a new job my wife and another couple took a trip to Switzerland.

Throughout the trip I talked about acquiring my lifelong dream purchase, a Rolex watch, to celebrate my multiple good luck.

When we walked into the famous Swiss jeweler, Bucherer, I took one look at the price of the watch (then several hundred dollars), turned on my heels and walked out.

My wife and companions spun me around and walked me back into the store with, "For Pete's sake, you've been talking about that watch for weeks....buy the darn thing". Which I did and have to this day.

Soon after, back in the US, I was with my friend and his father.

My friend told his dad about the Rolex story (I was neither wearing the watch, nor talking about it).

My fiend's dad asked me the odd question of "what time would my Rolex have at the moment?".

Not sure what he meant, I looked at the clock on the wall and said "It's noon, so I guess my watch would say it's noon".

At which point, he triumphantly pulled back his sleeve to show me his Timex and said, "Well I have a Timex and my watch says it's noon as well".

While I got his point, it was at that time I realized that the world would be forever divided into those people who wore Timex

(and bragged about it) and those people who wore Rolex.

Or, as Oscar Wilde put it, people who know the price of everything and value of nothing.

Hawaiidan, makes an excellent point that luxury has both it's price and value and that people who can afford the luxury, and prioritize it's importance, usually get an upgraded experience.

People who insist on cost/benefit analyzing luxury miss the point.

The argument that "who cares if Elvis is the performer, I hate rockabilly...and who cares if Ronald Reagan and John Kennedy are the speakers, I hate politicians, and who cares if the utensils are gold and the glasses Waterford because I can just as easily drink out of plastic cups" sound foolish in the attempt.

The response to these people should be why cruise on HAL when P&O is cheaper and offers the same amenities.

This thinking quickly leads to a mad rush to the bottom, where arguments are made like "think how cheap cars would be if we only made one car. We wouldn't need to advertise, only need one set of parts, etc".