No Tipping from May 2011 to / from OZ . So how does every one earn a paycheck

[Northender]

Someone still has to tell the computer what to do, how much and how often and when to stop.:D Good Lord, at least I hope so:eek:

[jannandjohn]

It sounds like Princess finally realized that it is unwise to work against local custom.

I really don't think it's got anything to do with local custom.(re Princess change)

The Australian Unions would not let them work from Australia if they did not get paid a proper award wage..full stop

It's not about Aussies not wanting to tip, because we tip if it's the policy of wherever/whoever/whatever if it's required, we also tip if being treated in a nice fashion..at least most Aussies do..(Restaurants , hairdressers etc)

It creates a lot of grumbling and they probably spent a lot of time dealing with unhappy passengers

.

I don't believe this is a reason at all..

 

Americans just don't get it..

Aussies PAY ALL of their workers a wage.

They DO NOT have to exist on tips.

 

tips here are regarded as something extra special, and are NOT expected.

[jannandjohn]

Sounds great, especially if you booked it before the cruise fares were raised to include the auto hotel charge. ;)

I am curious, do you know for a fact that the fares were raised by the exact tip amount for what it would have cost for the tip ???

[Toto2Kansas]

I am curious, do you know for a fact that the fares were raised by the exact tip amount for what it would have cost for the tip ???

 

Nope, just guessing. ;) Princess will have to make up the difference somewhere if the staff does not get the gratuities to add to their wage. I can not see Princess paying the staff more just because they are not used to tipping in Australia, unless the money comes from the passengers in the long run.

Watch and see!

[rdsqrl]

I don't believe this is a reason at all..

 

Americans just don't get it..

Aussies PAY ALL of their workers a wage.

They DO NOT have to exist on tips.

 

tips here are regarded as something extra special, and are NOT expected.

We get it. Believe me; we've heard it enough. (By the way, Americans pay all their workers, too, even those whose primary compensation is derived from tips do get a small hourly wage.) However, it may be you who don't get it if you really think most waiters would prefer a straight wage over a wage + tip arrangement. I was a bartender (not even a waiter, where the big money could be) back in the day and I can tell you that no restaurant owner would ever pay me as a straight hourly wage what I averaged in tips over the course of a week. This is not intended to give license to those who will now use it as an excuse to stiff tipped cruise staff on the basis that they must be making plenty of money already, but to point out to you that it's just possible that some Australians (and others who believe wages derived from tips are immoral, unethical, and/or fattening) simply don't understand a few basic (positive) realities about the service industry as it exists here in the States.

[Pam in CA]

I don't believe this is a reason at all..

 

Americans just don't get it..

Aussies PAY ALL of their workers a wage.

They DO NOT have to exist on tips.

 

tips here are regarded as something extra special, and are NOT expected.

What you're forgetting is that the Sun and Dawn Princess sail for US-based Princess cruises, not P&O Australia, and like all Princess ships, US economics and standard tipping policies apply. Just because a Princess ship sails near China or Japan doesn't mean they should pay wages commensurate with the local economy.

 

When I'm in Rome, I cover my head and shoulders when I enter a church. Likewise in Istanbul. I don't demand to dress the way I would at home in southern CA.

 

And I know this is going to relieve your mind, salaries in the US are on average, pretty darned good. Most people make a very decent wage, and... are paid for their work. The service industry, however, whether it's in restaurants, hair parlors, etc. have a different system of a base wage plus tips. Disparaging the US economy is not making you friends.

[windsor26]

Princess have always made allowance or compensated their workers for the difference in Australian waters.

 

The drinks only had a mark up tax of 10% and the waiters told us that Princess upgraded this to the 15% they would have got on USA trips so they were not disadvantaged.

 

If they raise the Australian prices now to take into account the 'hidden' tips then they will probably send more customers booking through foreign agents as already the prices in Australia usually far exceed those in USA and Canada even allowing for changing exchange rates.

 

Plus we do not usually get refundable deposits, obc, bottles of wine and vouchers for photos from our Agents - I say usually as I have actually found one that does Yipee!!!:eek:

 

I do wonder if, if there are no tips except what we would obviously give waiters, stewards and bar tenders how the under deck staff will be compensated:mad:

[Toto2Kansas]

What you call a 'mark up tax' that was changed from 10% to 15% is indeed the gratuity added to drinks. ;)

[rdsqrl]

. . . I do wonder if, if there are no tips except what we would obviously give waiters, stewards and bar tenders how the under deck staff will be compensated:mad:

If it works as it does in a restaurant on land, they might be required to tip out a certain percentage of their tips to their behind-the-scenes helper, the way I had to tip out to my barback. That's probably what was happening under the old pre-autotip regimen, too.

[jannandjohn]

However, it may be you who don't get it ...........

, but to point out to you that it's just possible that some Australians (and others who believe wages derived from tips are immoral, unethical, and/or fattening) simply don't understand a few basic (positive) realities about the service industry as it exists here in the States.

 

I do get it..been to USA at least 12 times in the last 7 yrs..always pay my way, and have never complained about US based cruises and their charges..(tips , gratuities, whatever)

the thread topic was..

in part..

"on all Sun Princess®, Dawn Princess® and Sea Princess® cruises departing and returning to Australia"

[davaller]

Toto

This removal of tipping was anounced over 12 moths ago by Princess AU and at the same time the bar prices were increased on the Sun and Dawn we received the email re the tipping last week and if you look to the cruise prices for the next 12 to 18 months there are little change in the prices and the crews on the Sun class ships and P&0 AU working out of Australian do have a different wage structure and have had this going back to the Sitmar years as the Aust shipping unions stood up for the workers way back in those days

 

It will be interesting to see if the current corckage charge of $20 AUD in the dinning room will be dropped as well have to wait for next June to come around when we join the Sun for another 25days

 

David and Maureen

[Tredebo]

The concept of tipping is foreign to me here at home. However, I get my head around it and accept it as the norm in other countries when I travel.

 

If the horror stories of wage rates paid to ship staff are true and assuming the prepaid auto tips/gratuities that are collected in the name of the various staff on board and are dispensed in full, when are they (staff) actually paid those monies?

 

The companies could be reaping a lot of interest on short term money markets. IMHO that kind of interest should also go to the staff (and yes, I would like to live in Utopia).

[Richard in Panama]

It is a matter of national pride, almost a religion for some Australians, not to tip in Australia, which is fine and makes sense because that's the way the labor law works in Australia. But the rest of the world isn't Australia. Unfortunately not all Australians adapt in parts of the world where tipping is a way of life. At the end of a fantastic, eight-hour tour in Istanbul with a superb guide, he showed me his total tip for the day which amounted to 5 Euros. And guides in Istanbul work mostly for tips. So when a ship comes in with Australians a lot of the top guides don't want to work it.

 

I mentioned this problem on the DAWN world cruise, mostly Australians and reminded folks that "When in Rome, you should do as the Romans do." I knew when we hit Europe, then Boston, New York and LA there would be a lot of upset people if nobody tipped. I had a few guests complain, but most were very supportive and appreciated being told how guides and tips worked in most of the world. For a few days I thought I had created a monster: people were handing out tips to almost everyone they encountered ashore, and often overtipping. I actually had people ask me how to tip, and when was the right time, and how should they hand the money to the guide. Then I had one woman say, "Hey, Richard, we DO tip! Aussies who go to nice restaurants tip just like Americans do" and then she went on to make some disparaging remarks about her fellow countrymen who weren't as worldly-wise as she.

 

But the fact is the first thing a lot of Australians did on the world cruise was line up in a big line at the front desk to remove the hotel service charge from their accounts. So it looks like Princess is just factoring that into the cost of the cruise. Makes sense.

 

Regards, Richard

[Toto2Kansas]

It is a matter of national pride, almost a religion for some Australians, not to tip in Australia, which is fine and makes sense because that's the way the labor law works in Australia. But the rest of the world isn't Australia. Unfortunately not all Australians adapt in parts of the world where tipping is a way of life. At the end of a fantastic, eight-hour tour in Istanbul with a superb guide, he showed me his total tip for the day which amounted to 5 Euros. And guides in Istanbul work mostly for tips. So when a ship comes in with Australians a lot of the top guides don't want to work it.

 

I mentioned this problem on the DAWN world cruise, mostly Australians and reminded folks that "When in Rome, you should do as the Romans do." I knew when we hit Europe, then Boston, New York and LA there would be a lot of upset people if nobody tipped. I had a few guests complain, but most were very supportive and appreciated being told how guides and tips worked in most of the world. For a few days I thought I had created a monster: people were handing out tips to almost everyone they encountered ashore, and often overtipping. I actually had people ask me how to tip, and when was the right time, and how should they hand the money to the guide. Then I had one woman say, "Hey, Richard, we DO tip! Aussies who go to nice restaurants tip just like Americans do" and then she went on to make some disparaging remarks about her fellow countrymen who weren't as worldly-wise as she.

 

But the fact is the first thing a lot of Australians did on the world cruise was line up in a big line at the front desk to remove the hotel service charge from their accounts. So it looks like Princess is just factoring that into the cost of the cruise. Makes sense.

 

Regards, Richard

 

Richard, Very Very well stated. :) I totally agree.

[kruisey]

It is a matter of national pride, almost a religion for some Australians, not to tip in Australia, which is fine and makes sense because that's the way the labor law works in Australia. But the rest of the world isn't Australia. Unfortunately not all Australians adapt in parts of the world where tipping is a way of life. At the end of a fantastic, eight-hour tour in Istanbul with a superb guide, he showed me his total tip for the day which amounted to 5 Euros. And guides in Istanbul work mostly for tips. So when a ship comes in with Australians a lot of the top guides don't want to work it.

 

I mentioned this problem on the DAWN world cruise, mostly Australians and reminded folks that "When in Rome, you should do as the Romans do." I knew when we hit Europe, then Boston, New York and LA there would be a lot of upset people if nobody tipped. I had a few guests complain, but most were very supportive and appreciated being told how guides and tips worked in most of the world. For a few days I thought I had created a monster: people were handing out tips to almost everyone they encountered ashore, and often overtipping. I actually had people ask me how to tip, and when was the right time, and how should they hand the money to the guide. Then I had one woman say, "Hey, Richard, we DO tip! Aussies who go to nice restaurants tip just like Americans do" and then she went on to make some disparaging remarks about her fellow countrymen who weren't as worldly-wise as she.

 

But the fact is the first thing a lot of Australians did on the world cruise was line up in a big line at the front desk to remove the hotel service charge from their accounts. So it looks like Princess is just factoring that into the cost of the cruise. Makes sense.

 

Regards, Richard

On my last cruise we had a group of nearly 500 from another country on board(NOT AUSTRALIAN) they all lined up at the pursers deck and removed their nightly $10.50 from their bills. My cabin steward who told me fortunately didnot have any of this group in his allocated cabins that his friends,who had this group amongst their passengers, were really terribly upset over this.

In my humble opinion it would be better all around for Princess to incorporate this charge in ones cruise fare to stop those unfair practises .

[Billy and Charlie's Mum]

What you're forgetting is that the Sun and Dawn Princess sail for US-based Princess cruises, not P&O Australia, and like all Princess ships, US economics and standard tipping policies apply. Just because a Princess ship sails near China or Japan doesn't mean they should pay wages commensurate with the local economy.

 

 

Sorry Pam, but Sun Princess and Dawn Princess are based permanently in Australia and are under the Princess Australia banner. They operate in Australian Dollars and under Australian Law.

[Pam in CA]

Sorry Pam' date=' but Sun Princess and Dawn Princess are based permanently in Australia and are under the Princess Australia banner. They operate in Australian Dollars and under Australian Law.

I stand corrected and apologize if I've misled anyone.

[NSWP]

The cost of an inside cabin on Dawn Princess 2011, 104 day world cruise went up by a couple of thousand dollars over 2010, i.e. from around $12500 to $14500.

 

We know why, gratuities 'hidden' in the 2011 cruise fare. But now Princess want the Aussie pax to extra on top of that as per the e mail most of us got from Carnival Australia.

 

Richard Dietrich, well said, I followed your blog too.

 

So the 500 pax lining up through the Dawn Princess were not on the Conga Dance Line' they were on the Remove Auto Tip Line, LOL.

[Toto2Kansas]

The cost of an inside cabin on Dawn Princess 2011, 104 day world cruise went up by a couple of thousand dollars over 2010, i.e. from around $12500 to $14500.

 

We know why, gratuities 'hidden' in the 2011 cruise fare. But now Princess want the Aussie pax to extra on top of that as per the e mail most of us got from Carnival Australia.

 

With gratuities included, that makes perfect sense to me.

I knew that Princess was not going to absorb the higher wages being paid to the staff to make up for their grauitites not being paid on top of the cruise price by passengers. As increases in things like this are always passed down to the passenger one way or another.

 

Am I correct that in AU if the price of the cruise goes up, even if you have already booked it, you are still responsible for paying the higher fare? Or am I remembering incorrectly?

[rkmw]

With gratuities included, that makes perfect sense to me.

I knew that Princess was not going to absorb the higher wages being paid to the staff to make up for their grauitites not being paid on top of the cruise price by passengers. As increases in things like this are always passed down to the passenger one way or another.

 

Am I correct that in AU if the price of the cruise goes up, even if you have already booked it, you are still responsible for paying the higher fare? Or am I remembering incorrectly?

 

Toto, once us aussie pay for our cruise thats it, we dont pay anymore if we go thru a local TA

 

rkmw

[Toto2Kansas]

Toto, once us aussie pay for our cruise thats it, we dont pay anymore if we go thru a local TA

 

rkmw

 

Was it always that way? I thought I remembered our Australian friends saying that until their cruise was paid in full, if the price went up, they had to pay the difference. It might not be that way now, but didn't it used to be?

[xpcdoojk]

they are probably being paid correct wages(Aussie workers have to be paid, unlike US workers on ships)

because those certain ships will be based in Australia

 

That is not really true. American workers on American based cruiseships would be subject to labor standards of the USA. Most ships that you perceive to be US ships are actually Liberian, Bahamian, etc flagged ships and thus not subject to the US laws and regulation.

 

By the way what is the "correct" wage? Is that one determined by supply and demand or a wage that is decided by a semi-sober elected official?

 

jc

[jannandjohn]

Was it always that way? I thought I remembered our Australian friends saying that until their cruise was paid in full, if the price went up, they had to pay the difference. It might not be that way now, but didn't it used to be?

No..at least not for the last 13 yrs..(unless your friends meant the fuel levy thst comes and goes}

[rkmw]

Was it always that way? I thought I remembered our Australian friends saying that until their cruise was paid in full, if the price went up, they had to pay the difference. It might not be that way now, but didn't it used to be?

 

the only time we have had to pay any extra if the taxes went up but we dont get price reductions either....not sure before 2007

[paul929207]

Toto, once us aussie pay for our cruise thats it, we dont pay anymore if we go thru a local TA

 

rkmw

By pay for your cruise do you mean book the cruise or make final payment. In the US, when we put down a deposit, we lock in the price.