NCL stop the 15% gratuity on drinks, please

[PleaseNo]

Just recently CC made a big play about forum members picking a fight with the cruise lines. Well the fight i'm going to pick with the cruise lines and i suspect more than a few on here is the seemingly constant pressure placed upon the paying customer to tip for everything.

 

In the UK i approach a barman and purchase a drink, he removes the lid and charges me. He doesn't then stand there and tell me i HAVE to pay another 15% on top of the original price just for him to do his job.

 

This is what you are all allowing to do on most cruise lines. I say most (what other forum posters have said), i only have experience with NCL.

 

In another thread somebody ask for the removal of the 15% surcharge and received this reply:

 

"Two points:

 

1) Never gonna happen...unless all cruise lines did it, which is never going to happen. It's a far too ingrained system.

 

2) Shouldn't happen - mainly because too many people would take advantage and stiff the staff, as with people who eliminate the DSC without good reason. "

 

Well to no.1 if we all make a stand, and we know NCL watch this board then maybe, just maybe NCL might find good PR in stopping it if people agree with it.

 

In reply to no.2 i replied:

 

"You really cant be serious can you ? So this member of staff at the bar who is already paid by NCL to serve drinks demands and gets a 15% tip for just removing a cap from a bottle.

 

The only people getting stiffed is the punter, who has already paid for this service."

 

A reply to this was :

 

"You certainly have not paid the wait staff a significant salary with your booking. They work for peanuts and put in long hours at that. Almost all major cruise lines have a similar arrangement. This is the exact reason that the old individual tipping went away. A large number of folks looked at it:mad: like you do, "they get paid by NCL" and I'm not going to let them "rip me off" buy forcing me to tip. Or, "NCL should pay a good wage so I don't have to". If the wages ever go up to the level that is required on US flagged ships, none (most) of us would be able to afford to cruise. "

 

Now i have several issues with this reply. If the staff don't like what they are paid, then move on. Its cold but a fact of life. I work very long hours for little pay, but i don't demand 15% tip for each delivery i make. My company pays me and if i don't like it i move on.

 

Just because most cruise lines do it does not mean NCL have to. Indeed what a great PR coup to say they will stop it. An yes we are being 'ripped off'. It requires no skill to remove the top from a bottle of beer, and yet i am forced to tip 15% for this act. Surely a tip is paid when a service greater than one expected is performed.

 

I can also twist the above argument to say it is that posters mentality that prevents NCL from improving the wage. As regarding increasing the cruise price to cover increase in wages would prevent most from cruising, that's just utter rubbish. For example an awful lot of people travelling to their cruise will take a flight, on that flight somebody will have, cleaned the inside of the aircraft (your room so to speak), an attendant will serve you food and a drink (the bar). All this without demanding a 15% tip. Outrageous, how can that be possible !! Because the airline factored this service into the price, a price we ALL still continue to pay and use in ever increasing numbers.

 

I am not a complete hard nose, my problem is i have grown up in the UK were tipping for everything is not the norm. If people on here can give me compelling reason why i should pay 15% for my lid to be removed then i will listen and possible change my view. However don't bother with 'if you don't like it don't do it'. Its a waste of your time and mine reading brainless fodder like that, be constructive in flaming me.

[roger001]

I kinda look at it like "pay now, or pay later". That being, NCL and many other service businesses in a tipping culture enviornment figure employees wages at the lowest level factoring in tips they expect the employee to receive. I don't know how NCL specifically does that, but many US restaurants pay only a few bucks an hour actual wage to servers, again expecting the tips to bring the hourly wage up to acceptable levels. And of course the employee works based on that assumption also. So, again "pay now, or pay later". If tips were taken out of the salary computations by employers, then fares would have to increase to cover the then higher hourly wages needed. My thoughts anyhow.

[sparks1093]

Cruise or don't, if you do, don't drink, if you do drink, well, when in Rome. The entire barstaff, bartenders, waitstaff, and barbacks are covered by the 15% gratuity and they aren't covered by the DSC (as I understand it).

 

I for one am happy with the current system and will not work to change it, thank you.

[SeaShark]

You are making a big to-do about nothing. Let me explain why.

 

For the purposes of this example, we consider an item priced at $1. With the 15% tip that would come to $1.15.

 

You advocate removing the auto-tip. Fine. As a result of the removal, the cruise line raises the price to $1.15.

 

 

You pay the same price either way.

 

 

 

So....

 

 

You can either pay $1.15 for the item or you can pay $1 plus $0.15. Either way you pay the same.

 

 

Is it really worth all the hub-bub in the end?

[Ms belp]

They always have to squeeze a penny to try and make it a dime.

[toomuchluggage]

If you don't like the rules you don't have to play.

[salty dingo]

 

You pay the same price either way.

 

 

 

So....

 

 

You can either pay $1.15 for the item or you can pay $1 plus $0.15. Either way you pay the same.

 

 

Is it really worth all the hub-bub in the end?

I agree. The OP misses the point that back in Europe, where tips are not customary, the "gratuity" is built into the base price of the item. It is going to be paid either way.

 

Of course, the drinks on a ship are way overpriced, especially considering the duty-free nature of the ingredients, but that is a separate issue.

[dockrocker]

Okay. We get that you grew up in the UK where many people do not tip. And when you're in the UK, you can feel free not to tip. But just as Americans who leave their comfort zone and expect everything to be just like it is in the US are being unreasonable, so are you when you expect international cruiselines to operate like everything does on your home base.

 

Passengers are not going to rise up en masse and demand that the gratuity be removed because most passengers simply don't agree with you. There is quite a bit of complaining around here about the drink autogratuity being a full 15% (mostly from people who live in rural areas and/or are elderly), but very few people are arguing, as you are, that there shouldn't be a tip at all. (And fortunately, even fewer people are pretending that their job situations at home are remotely analogous to cruise ship crews'. The "just move on" bit is priceless.)

 

You can pay the autogratuity or you can skip the cruise.

Edited February 13, 2011 by dockrocker

[PleaseNo]

I kinda look at it like "pay now, or pay later". That being, NCL and many other service businesses in a tipping culture enviornment figure employees wages at the lowest level factoring in tips they expect the employee to receive. I don't know how NCL specifically does that, but many US restaurants pay only a few bucks an hour actual wage to servers, again expecting the tips to bring the hourly wage up to acceptable levels. And of course the employee works based on that assumption also. So, again "pay now, or pay later". If tips were taken out of the salary computations by employers, then fares would have to increase to cover the then higher hourly wages needed. My thoughts anyhow.

 

Good point, however i would counter that increasing the base cost of a drink will mean only those purchasing alcohol will pay the extra. And yes i realise what i am saying. If NCL factored in the cost of service to the product (drink) then i would have no argument.

[roger001]

I can also twist the above argument to say it is that posters mentality that prevents NCL from improving the wage. As regarding increasing the cruise price to cover increase in wages would prevent most from cruising, that's just utter rubbish. For example an awful lot of people travelling to their cruise will take a flight, on that flight somebody will have, cleaned the inside of the aircraft (your room so to speak), an attendant will serve you food and a drink (the bar). All this without demanding a 15% tip. Outrageous, how can that be possible !! Because the airline factored this service into the price, a price we ALL still continue to pay and use in ever increasing numbers.

 

 

Flying is seldom a luxury, ususlly a necessity...and the major airline employees get pretty good wages and reasonable working hours (I've been in the industry for many years). Cruising on the other hand is strictly a luxury...although I'm really starting to consider it a necessity lately...for me.

[Newleno]

You are making a big to-do about nothing. Let me explain why.

 

For the purposes of this example, we consider an item priced at $1. With the 15% tip that would come to $1.15.

 

You advocate removing the auto-tip. Fine. As a result of the removal, the cruise line raises the price to $1.15.

 

 

You pay the same price either way.

 

 

 

So....

 

 

You can either pay $1.15 for the item or you can pay $1 plus $0.15. Either way you pay the same.

 

 

Is it really worth all the hub-bub in the end?

 

The Question I want answered is what cruiseline is giving you $1 drinks, cause I am all over it

[PleaseNo]

You are making a big to-do about nothing. Let me explain why.

 

For the purposes of this example, we consider an item priced at $1. With the 15% tip that would come to $1.15.

 

You advocate removing the auto-tip. Fine. As a result of the removal, the cruise line raises the price to $1.15.

 

 

You pay the same price either way.

 

 

 

So....

 

 

You can either pay $1.15 for the item or you can pay $1 plus $0.15. Either way you pay the same.

 

 

Is it really worth all the hub-bub in the end?

 

You are indeed right.

 

But yes its worth it. It could mean staff getting a fair wage, who can complain about that. And remember its not just US citizens cruising, many are now cruising from non tipping countries like the UK. Whilst i am positive some from the UK will post and disagree i would equally imagine many will have the same feelings as me regarding this.

[SeaShark]

You are indeed right.

 

But yes its worth it. It could mean staff getting a fair wage, who can complain about that. And remember its not just US citizens cruising, many are now cruising from non tipping countries like the UK. Whilst i am positive some from the UK will post and disagree i would equally imagine many will have the same feelings as me regarding this.

 

I completely disagree. In either case the price of the item that the consumer must pay is the same $1.15.

 

In both cases the employee gets the same wage.

 

 

You have shown NOTHING that would make the entire change beneficial to anyone.

[PleaseNo]

Flying is seldom a luxury, ususlly a necessity...and the major airline employees get pretty good wages and reasonable working hours (I've been in the industry for many years). Cruising on the other hand is strictly a luxury...although I'm really starting to consider it a necessity lately...for me.

 

There has been such a huge demand for cruises in the UK (20% increase this year according to my TA) that many would treat it as a 'normal' holiday, just like spending a week in Spain, so not a luxury. But i still value your point.

[Dogstar]

... i suspect more than a few on here is the seemingly constant pressure placed upon the paying customer to tip for everything.

 

I agree with you that the auto-gratuity policy, now the norm, is unfair. Similarly, I dislike the auto-DSC policy, also now the norm. For the most part, anything beyond the basic dining options & standard entertainment are surcharged. I have always tipped fairly for services rendered on our cruises. I, like you, just don't like having it hidden in everything automatically, disguised in one form or another.

 

I prefer the good ol' days of cruising when you tipped separately for services rendered. Auto-gratuity & auto-DSC'ing have, in my opinion, diluted the level of service delivery by staff since there is no immediate, direct incentive. In essence lousy service is rewarded with an auto-tip, unfair to the recipient (us) & to those staff that otherwise earn a fair gratuity.

 

And yes, auto-tipping a bartender 15% to open bottle or pour a beverage, ordered directly by the customer at the bar, is high-seas robbery. :mad:

[dockrocker]

You are indeed right.

 

But yes its worth it. It could mean staff getting a fair wage, who can complain about that. And remember its not just US citizens cruising, many are now cruising from non tipping countries like the UK. Whilst i am positive some from the UK will post and disagree i would equally imagine many will have the same feelings as me regarding this.

 

If you want the staff to get a fair wage without it coming out of tips, you can plan on your cruise fare doubling or tripling.

 

Gratuities are a large part of the reason that labor is so cheap on cruiselines, which keeps your base fare low.

 

The other reason that labor is cheap on cruiselines is that the lines recruit from impoverished countries where job opportunities are exceptionally limited. When you make flippant comments like, "If they don't like it, they can move on," you're showing a stunning lack of understanding of how the rest of the world lives.

[PleaseNo]

Passengers are not going to rise up en masse and demand that the gratuity be removed because most passengers simply don't agree with you. There is quite a bit of complaining around here about the drink autogratuity being a full 15%

You can pay the autogratuity or you can skip the cruise.

 

Never in my dreams did i expect it either, for what its worth.

[Newleno]

I completely disagree. In either case the price of the item that the consumer must pay is the same $1.15.

 

In both cases the employee gets the same wage.

 

 

You have shown NOTHING that would make the entire change beneficial to anyone.

 

It woud benefit the person that bought drinks, if tipping was not allowed and salaries were increased (to that of being tipped) than that cost would be distributed over all cruise passengers whether they ordered a drink or not. So this policy of no tipping would help the person who ordered drinks, it would be a detriment to those that dont drink.

[david_sobe]

I think the NCL tipping is 17 or 20 percent and not 15.

 

You can really tell the Euros from the Americans on this one. I was just on the Epic and the staff (many from Europe) dreaded the fact the ship was going to Europe in May. REASON: Euros dont tip and the staff knows they wont make the money.

 

I am not trying to start a fight or debate with anyone. I have been in Europe and know how it is. It is not pratical to leave 15-20 % after a meal or drink. But in the USA, it is expected.

 

I have another one that will drive the OP wild. We even tipped the hostess a few times for getting us a table. OH LORD! What will those people think of next? ;) ;)

Edited February 14, 2011 by david_sobe

[biker@sea]

I feel that wait staff dealing with people who are drinking deserve 15% more than wait staff scooping ice cream. ;)

[PleaseNo]

I completely disagree. In either case the price of the item that the consumer must pay is the same $1.15.

 

In both cases the employee gets the same wage.

 

 

You have shown NOTHING that would make the entire change beneficial to anyone.

 

 

I would like to disagree with you, but sadly its a point well made that NCL could still screw its staff.:( But would you look at NCL in the same way if you found out it had increased its prices but stiffed its staff.

[dockrocker]

I feel that wait staff dealing with people who are drinking deserve 15% more than wait staff scooping ice cream. ;)

 

You said it, brother (or sister!). And dealing with drunks who are also whingeing cheapskates...they should get 50%!

[johnql]

I think the NCL tipping is 17 or 20 percent and not 15.

The auto-gratuity on bar tabs is 15%. Why do you believe it's 17 or 20?

[MMMD]

Truthfully I save money with the 15% added on as I would most likely tip more.

 

When I found that a bartender on the NCL Jewel was polite, conversational and mixed a good drink, I left extra.

 

I was on vacation and didn't count pennies or worry about it.

 

The automatic charges don't bother me.

[SeaShark]

It woud benefit the person that bought drinks, if tipping was not allowed and salaries were increased (to that of being tipped) than that cost would be distributed over all cruise passengers whether they ordered a drink or not. So this policy of no tipping would help the person who ordered drinks, it would be a detriment to those that dont drink.

 

How do you figure?

 

The price of the drinks would simply be raised 15% to cover the lost tips. The consumer would still pay the same amount they paid before. NOT an increased amount.

 

Since the price of drinks would be raised, ONLY the guest purchasing drinks would be paying the increase. NOT all passengers.

 

This "no tipping" policy would help no one. $1.15 for an item or $1 plus $0.15 for the item is still the SAME THING.

 

In the world of mathematics, this is known as "=" :rolleyes: