NCL stop the 15% gratuity on drinks, please

[4774Papa]

Truthfully I save money with the 15% added on as I would most likely tip more.

 

When I found that a bartender on the NCL Jewel was polite, conversational and mixed a good drink, I left extra.

 

I was on vacation and didn't count pennies or worry about it.

 

The automatic charges don't bother me.

 

I don't have a problem with the 15% automatic tip. I lived in Germany for four years and found European tipping is much more modest, because service is generally included in the price of the food or drink.

 

I am unaware of the contract that NCL has with its employees, but I would opine that service workers (many coming from third world countries) are probably not paid by European or US levels. The tipping is likely a supplement to their pay.

 

Also, I generally tip 20% in the USA for excellent service. In some cases with large groups in a restaurant, there is a mandatory tip surcharge added. I know my children have worked as waiting on tables and found tipping to be very inconsistent. Some people actually do not tip at all, or tip next to nothing.

 

Finally, the ultimate decision is if you want to cruise with NCL, and you want an alcoholic beverage, then you expect this charge.

[cod]

Ooops, I didn't mean to post that twice. In fact I tried to do away with the post altogether and - instead - did it again!!!

 

I did not mean to malign any particular group and decided it might sound that way. Lord knows, we've been to Europe enough to know that our Italian family members over there do no tip when we go out to eat with them....maybe some small change on occasion but that's it!

[newmexicoNita]

Just recently CC made a big play about forum members picking a fight with the cruise lines. Well the fight i'm going to pick with the cruise lines and i suspect more than a few on here is the seemingly constant pressure placed upon the paying customer to tip for everything.

 

In the UK i approach a barman and purchase a drink, he removes the lid and charges me. He doesn't then stand there and tell me i HAVE to pay another 15% on top of the original price just for him to do his job.

 

This is what you are all allowing to do on most cruise lines. I say most (what other forum posters have said), i only have experience with NCL.

 

In another thread somebody ask for the removal of the 15% surcharge and received this reply:

 

"Two points:

 

1) Never gonna happen...unless all cruise lines did it, which is never going to happen. It's a far too ingrained system.

 

2) Shouldn't happen - mainly because too many people would take advantage and stiff the staff, as with people who eliminate the DSC without good reason. "

 

Well to no.1 if we all make a stand, and we know NCL watch this board then maybe, just maybe NCL might find good PR in stopping it if people agree with it.

 

In reply to no.2 i replied:

 

"You really cant be serious can you ? So this member of staff at the bar who is already paid by NCL to serve drinks demands and gets a 15% tip for just removing a cap from a bottle.

 

The only people getting stiffed is the punter, who has already paid for this service."

 

A reply to this was :

 

"You certainly have not paid the wait staff a significant salary with your booking. They work for peanuts and put in long hours at that. Almost all major cruise lines have a similar arrangement. This is the exact reason that the old individual tipping went away. A large number of folks looked at it:mad: like you do, "they get paid by NCL" and I'm not going to let them "rip me off" buy forcing me to tip. Or, "NCL should pay a good wage so I don't have to". If the wages ever go up to the level that is required on US flagged ships, none (most) of us would be able to afford to cruise. "

 

Now i have several issues with this reply. If the staff don't like what they are paid, then move on. Its cold but a fact of life. I work very long hours for little pay, but i don't demand 15% tip for each delivery i make. My company pays me and if i don't like it i move on.

 

Just because most cruise lines do it does not mean NCL have to. Indeed what a great PR coup to say they will stop it. An yes we are being 'ripped off'. It requires no skill to remove the top from a bottle of beer, and yet i am forced to tip 15% for this act. Surely a tip is paid when a service greater than one expected is performed.

 

I can also twist the above argument to say it is that posters mentality that prevents NCL from improving the wage. As regarding increasing the cruise price to cover increase in wages would prevent most from cruising, that's just utter rubbish. For example an awful lot of people travelling to their cruise will take a flight, on that flight somebody will have, cleaned the inside of the aircraft (your room so to speak), an attendant will serve you food and a drink (the bar). All this without demanding a 15% tip. Outrageous, how can that be possible !! Because the airline factored this service into the price, a price we ALL still continue to pay and use in ever increasing numbers.

 

I am not a complete hard nose, my problem is i have grown up in the UK were tipping for everything is not the norm. If people on here can give me compelling reason why i should pay 15% for my lid to be removed then i will listen and possible change my view. However don't bother with 'if you don't like it don't do it'. Its a waste of your time and mine reading brainless fodder like that, be constructive in flaming me.

 

I do not think most of us intend on flaming you as much as trying to explain to you that what happens in the UK may or may not be what happens other places. A 15% gratuity is standard for most resorts as well as ships and many restaurants when there are more than 4 or 5 in a group. In fact in Florida there is an 18% tip added automatically to all restaurant and bars bills in most tourist cities.

 

When I hear people from some areas, including UK griping about this I think about the service charges added to all our dining last time we were in London, even the buffets. Except instead of 15% it was only 10% can you explain the difference as you see it?

 

I doubt anything I have just said will make much difference to you, but at least I tried to explain.

 

Nita

[sparks1093]

I do not think most of us intend on flaming you as much as trying to explain to you that what happens in the UK may or may not be what happens other places. A 15% gratuity is standard for most resorts as well as ships and many restaurants when there are more than 4 or 5 in a group. In fact in Florida there is an 18% tip added automatically to all restaurant and bars bills in most tourist cities.

 

When I hear people from some areas, including UK griping about this I think about the service charges added to all our dining last time we were in London, even the buffets. Except instead of 15% it was only 10% can you explain the difference as you see it?

 

I doubt anything I have just said will make much difference to you, but at least I tried to explain.

 

Nita

 

Hi Nita, the OP did participate in the thread and seemed to catch on a little later in the thread. Seems his TA may not have been upfront about additional charges, kind of telling the OP it was all inclusive. For a tipping thread I think this one has been relatively tame, mostly because the OP did participate and did listen to what was said.

[sjbdtz]

What it really comes down to is your opinion is totally based on the customs on your country of origin.

 

For example, I am from Canada our custom is 10%-15% for gratuity based employment, and given on the service received above the basic job description of that employee. For example it is expected your server will bring you a menu, take your order, twist your bottle cap etc., If they do a table check, offer to refill your coffee when low etc (that is above their basic job). In saying that I am finding here as well, that we are adopting a different mentality that for some reason the worker is entitled to a 15% tip to subsidize their wage. I do not agree with this and still tip if the worker goes above her/his call of duty.

 

I can understand that, although the ship is Bahama based, it probably has more United States travelers than from one other specific country, therefore over time has adopted the mentality of “we are to subsidize lower paid professions, instead of forcing companies to just up their pay scale”. Therefore, cruise ships know they are not risking customers by doing this, if the majority of their customers believe in and understand that philosophy. I do prefer to have specific prices stated and not have to add taxes or gratuities in my head for the bottom dollar and just let admin figure out how much is the price and how much is gratuities etc. Makes my travel less brain taxing when on vacation. But when in Rome….. So I have found if I go to order a drink, I just ask “OK so what is the bottom dollar” Because I really don’t care who gets what in the end, I am on vacation, I will worry about social issues when I come back home.

 

Now to all the posters who have jumped on the OP or will jump on me. Please understand that if you come from somewhere who does not adopt the same philosophy as your country of origin, it’s not from lack of doing research but from understanding why you do what you do or feel the way you do. To the OP you also have to understand that your opposition posters are from a country that believe this is their social responsibility to subsidize lower paying employment and not the hiring company’s responsibility to pay their staff better in the first place. So again since most cruisers on NCL are States based you are not going to get many that would stand against this, because to them it is the norm and makes total sense.

 

Happy cruising all!

 

 

Well, I never flamed the OP, but I'm hoping you're from some OTHER Ontario, because this is embarrassing.

 

It is standard practice in Ontario, to tip 15 - 20% for a job reasonably well-done. NOT for over & above.

 

Waiters do NOT receive minimum wage in Ontario. http://www.labour.gov.on.ca/english/es/pubs/guide/minwage.php Minimum wage is $10.25 (that's the MINIMUM someone needs to survive)...it's still below the poverty line.

 

Servers get paid $8.90, of $1.35 per hour, less!

 

 

Why? For lots of reasons, not the least of which is that CPP & EI (Canada Pension and Employment Insurance) are both calculated on an employees 'earnings', which for restaurants & bars ....which run on FUMES as far as profit margins are concerned....is a big chunk of change.

 

By 'paying' them less, and having the customer pick up the slack, the server earns the same money (probably around $15/hour), but the restaurant only pays the employer portion of CPP & EI based on $8.90.

 

 

If the restaurant had to pay the server $15 / hour, your meals would cost substantially more because they ALSO have to absorb the tax-related elements.

 

 

It's the same premise onboard.

 

 

 

.

[che5904]

I've been following this thread with great interest. I think a lot of posters hit it on the head, that when we travel it is our responsibility to know the customs where we are going, including those related to tipping.

 

Sea Monster I totally agree that one should do their homework to know the customs of where they are going. After doing much research on the "Bahamas" (Flag of the ship) and their tipping customs I have found various information out there, not consistent. So now lets research information and customs of “ships” and/ or NCL, again various information. Some people consider NCL’s $12 a service charge, some a gratuity.

OK now let’s just go by NCL posted information quotes : “What about Tipping?

Guests should not feel obliged to offer a gratuity for good service. However, all of our staff are encouraged to "go the extra mile," and so they are permitted to accept cash gratuities entirely at the discretion of our guests who wish to acknowledge particular staff members for exceptional or outstanding service. In other words, there is genuinely no need to tip but you should feel free to do so if you have a desire to acknowledge particular individuals.

Also, certain staff positions provide service on an individual basis to only some guests. We encourage those guests to acknowledge good service from these staff members with appropriate gratuities. For example, for guests purchasing bar drinks the RECOMMENDED gratuity is 15 percent. For guests purchasing spa treatments the RECOMMENDED gratuity is 18 percent. Similarly, for guests using concierge and butler services, we recommend they consider offering a gratuity commensurate with services rendered.”

More researching issues. Example I love CC but it is a very hard site to research anything on. For example I have been doing searches to try and discover if after the upgrades on the Star there are still coffee makers in balcony cabins. To my dismay I just come up with searches that sporadically have those words in them and not an answer to my question. Bar drink prices, cocktail prices onboard, the same thing. For a simple bar drink ie. Pina Coloda, rum and coke, I have found prices anywhere from $4.00 to $9.00 quoted / drink for each of these.

I am 50+ and have traveled all of my life and tipping customs have greatly changed in those years all over the world. As much as I love cruising, I do have to say there is a lot of information that is not readily available. If I go to a hotel or resort 90% of the time full disclosure of amenities and inclusions are listed. However I have found cruiselines (not just NCL), do not readily have accessible information. ie. Description of Balcony as per NCL: Balcony Stateroom Two lower beds, sitting area, floor-to-ceiling glass door opens to private balcony. No amenities that I could find with the exception of other cruiser’s comments which again vary in information.

So as you can see doing your homework doesn’t always cover much needed information.

[Warmer Climes]

Truthfully I save money with the 15% added on as I would most likely tip more.

 

When I found that a bartender on the NCL Jewel was polite, conversational and mixed a good drink, I left extra.

 

I was on vacation and didn't count pennies or worry about it.

 

The automatic charges don't bother me.

 

This is my sentiment exactly. We also have gone back on the last evening at our favorite bar on the ship and left a substantial tip for our favorite servers.

[che5904]

Well, I never flamed the OP, but I'm hoping you're from some OTHER Ontario, because this is embarrassing........

 

Actually I am from a totally different part of Ontario than you and have lived with a one income family at or slightly above minimum wage my entire 32 years of marriage without tips or asking anyone to subsidize our income, thank you very much and raised 2 children on that income. And I am living reasonably well, but as you can see we do not have the luxury of cruising or vacationing often (only our 2nd cruise). Do keep in mind minimum wage just increased to $10.25 in Mar. 2010, so I know all about living on $8/hr. So as you can see not all of us are making over $15/hr to be able to subsidize others that are in the same pay range as us. And if what you are saying is true than maybe I should look into waitressing I would obviously make better money. Although on the flip side of that I have a lot of family members including a daughter in a tipped based profession and trust me she is no where near $15/hr even with the odd tip she is giving and raising a young son on her own.

I didn’t say it wasn’t “standard practice”, I said it was Canada’s custom (read Wikipedia description of Canada tipping). I also stated that Canada was now adopting this 15% entitlement philosophy.

As you can see I tip to show appreciation for a job well done but do not have the finances to pay someone else’s salary.

So I am terribly sorry that this post somehow offended or embarrassed you.

[che5904]

Sorry all I hit quote instead of reply on those last 2 posts they were replying to specific posters if you see the quote at the top of the post.

 

I didn't mean to confuse anyone. :confused:

[newmexicoNita]

I don't have a problem with the 15% automatic tip. I lived in Germany for four years and found European tipping is much more modest, because service is generally included in the price of the food or drink.

 

I am unaware of the contract that NCL has with its employees, but I would opine that service workers (many coming from third world countries) are probably not paid by European or US levels. The tipping is likely a supplement to their pay.

 

Also, I generally tip 20% in the USA for excellent service. In some cases with large groups in a restaurant, there is a mandatory tip surcharge added. I know my children have worked as waiting on tables and found tipping to be very inconsistent. Some people actually do not tip at all, or tip next to nothing.

 

Finally, the ultimate decision is if you want to cruise with NCL, and you want an alcoholic beverage, then you expect this charge.

you are correct, they are not paid by American or Europe standards and the tips are considered part of the income. Sure, like is always mentioned, the cruise line can pay better so tipping won't be as big a deal, but it all comes out pretty much the same. This is a constant decussion here. About every few weeks the subject of tipping comes up and it usually boils down to UK and Australian ideas versus US ideas. Our kids and grandkids have done the wait thing as well while in college.

 

Nita

 

Y

[newmexicoNita]

Hi Nita, the OP did participate in the thread and seemed to catch on a little later in the thread. Seems his TA may not have been upfront about additional charges, kind of telling the OP it was all inclusive. For a tipping thread I think this one has been relatively tame, mostly because the OP did participate and did listen to what was said.

 

Thanks, obviously with so many responses I didn't read each one. I am glad he was able to see both sides. Too many can not understand.

 

Nita

[NMLady]

Just recently CC made a big play about forum members picking a fight with the cruise lines. Well the fight i'm going to pick with the cruise lines and i suspect more than a few on here is the seemingly constant pressure placed upon the paying customer to tip for everything.

 

In the UK i approach a barman and purchase a drink, he removes the lid and charges me. He doesn't then stand there and tell me i HAVE to pay another 15% on top of the original price just for him to do his job.

 

This is what you are all allowing to do on most cruise lines. I say most (what other forum posters have said), i only have experience with NCL.

 

In another thread somebody ask for the removal of the 15% surcharge and received this reply:

 

"Two points:

 

1) Never gonna happen...unless all cruise lines did it, which is never going to happen. It's a far too ingrained system.

 

2) Shouldn't happen - mainly because too many people would take advantage and stiff the staff, as with people who eliminate the DSC without good reason. "

 

Well to no.1 if we all make a stand, and we know NCL watch this board then maybe, just maybe NCL might find good PR in stopping it if people agree with it.

 

In reply to no.2 i replied:

 

"You really cant be serious can you ? So this member of staff at the bar who is already paid by NCL to serve drinks demands and gets a 15% tip for just removing a cap from a bottle.

 

The only people getting stiffed is the punter, who has already paid for this service."

 

A reply to this was :

 

"You certainly have not paid the wait staff a significant salary with your booking. They work for peanuts and put in long hours at that. Almost all major cruise lines have a similar arrangement. This is the exact reason that the old individual tipping went away. A large number of folks looked at it:mad: like you do, "they get paid by NCL" and I'm not going to let them "rip me off" buy forcing me to tip. Or, "NCL should pay a good wage so I don't have to". If the wages ever go up to the level that is required on US flagged ships, none (most) of us would be able to afford to cruise. "

 

Now i have several issues with this reply. If the staff don't like what they are paid, then move on. Its cold but a fact of life. I work very long hours for little pay, but i don't demand 15% tip for each delivery i make. My company pays me and if i don't like it i move on.

 

Just because most cruise lines do it does not mean NCL have to. Indeed what a great PR coup to say they will stop it. An yes we are being 'ripped off'. It requires no skill to remove the top from a bottle of beer, and yet i am forced to tip 15% for this act. Surely a tip is paid when a service greater than one expected is performed.

 

I can also twist the above argument to say it is that posters mentality that prevents NCL from improving the wage. As regarding increasing the cruise price to cover increase in wages would prevent most from cruising, that's just utter rubbish. For example an awful lot of people travelling to their cruise will take a flight, on that flight somebody will have, cleaned the inside of the aircraft (your room so to speak), an attendant will serve you food and a drink (the bar). All this without demanding a 15% tip. Outrageous, how can that be possible !! Because the airline factored this service into the price, a price we ALL still continue to pay and use in ever increasing numbers.

 

I am not a complete hard nose, my problem is i have grown up in the UK were tipping for everything is not the norm. If people on here can give me compelling reason why i should pay 15% for my lid to be removed then i will listen and possible change my view. However don't bother with 'if you don't like it don't do it'. Its a waste of your time and mine reading brainless fodder like that, be constructive in flaming me.

 

I guess that in England you don't usually tip servers? Here in the US we are used to tipping waiters/waitresses/bartenders/cocktail servers a minimum of 10% and usually 15% so we don't question the 15% gratuity charged by NCL. Since so many Americans, and maybe those from some other countries too, are used to the gratuity, I can't see NCL or other cruise lines removing it, and to be honest I wouldn't expect them too.

[biker@sea]

Not to hijack this thread but now I'm confused. Should I stop tipping the Queens subjects when we visit Bermuda.:confused:

[NMLady]

I'm sorry but i disagree. It is incredible easy to increase drink prices to pay for the bar staff and not charge others who do not use this service. NCL put up a job advert for bar staff with an increased wage of $XXX. How difficult was that.

 

Since the 15% is only on drinks, the only ones paying it are the ones using the service. That is, those buying drinks. So I don't understand your sentence saying 'not charge others who do not use this service'. The BAR gratuity is only charged on drinks so it is NOT charging those who don't drink. It's not charging others who do not use the service.

[dockrocker]

When I visit Europe I know I'm going to pay out the nose even at the Burger King drive through, gas is more expensive than scotch :), if you ask for water it comes in a tiny bottle for about $5 (no tap)

 

Hmmmm, I'm confused by this, Mike. In many parts of Europe, bottled water is much less expensive than in the U.S. The exceptions tend to be restaurants when you order water for the table -- and anywhere near a tourist spot.

 

Also, there are very few places in Europe where an American shouldn't feel fine about drinking tap water.

 

I say this recognizing that your preference may be for bottled water, but a lot of people reading these threads haven't been to Europe yet, and I wanted to clarify this for anyone who might freak out at the potential cost of bottled water/status of tap water.

[che5904]

Nita I have seen you on different posts and you are very patient and helpful with newbies asking repeated question or disputing repeated topics.

 

Truthfully I think NCL themselves could alleviate this dispute by UPDATING their website!!! Please see the quote above to SeaMonster from their own FAQs. So cruisers do their homework and read what they think are the ships tipping customs and figure OK NCL obviously knows what they are doing and then find something on CC or other sites and then are either confused, dismiss it, or figure it is debatable etc.

[ROSEBASKETS]

I guess that in England you don't usually tip servers? Here in the US we are used to tipping waiters/waitresses/bartenders/cocktail servers a minimum of 10% and usually 15% so we don't question the 15% gratuity charged by NCL. Since so many Americans, and maybe those from some other countries too, are used to the gratuity, I can't see NCL or other cruise lines removing it, and to be honest I wouldn't expect them too.

 

In England servers, et al are paid a minimum of $9.50 per hour, most will receive $11.00 per hour or more. In England we tip for service that is above the norm. If the service is poor or unfriendly no tip is left, if adequate about 5% depending on where in the country you are from and if excellent between 10 & 30% (but it is not expected or required) Outside of the capital if you were to tip the bar staff you would probably be looked at dumbfounded!

 

The Capital and tourist areas have started adding standard service charges to bills in reataurants and upmarket cafes but if the service has not been good people will not hesitate to have them removed.

 

If you were to eat anywhere in the UK and didn't leave a tip no one would consider it rude and not even raise an eyebrow.

Edited February 14, 2011 by ROSEBASKETS

[dockrocker]

Take a room steward servicing 20 rooms with 2 people in each = 40 people x 3.50 each = $140 per day X 7 = $980 per week X 4 = $3920per month X 12 = $47040 per year, not including those cabins with more then 2 people! $3920 per month is more then most of these people could earn in a year in their home countries, not to mention the pay received from the cruise line, plus room and board and other benefits! MOST of us should have it so good!

 

Except that your numbers are all wrong. On NCL and most other lines, stewards work in teams of two and have up to 30 cabins per pair. Let's assume that this team gets $3.50 a day from the $12 pp/pd service charge. That would make $2,940 per month each, minus what they have to pay other members of the housekeeping staff out of pocket (yes, that's correct) to do the rooms of passengers who don't leave their cabins until afternoon, and not including the couple of hundred dollars a month the cruiseline gives them that month. They have 12 hours of physical work a day (approximately 7 a.m.-1 p.m. and 5-10 p.m.), 7 days a week, every day of the year except the 8-12 weeks when they're at home and don't get paid at all (zero paid vacation days, although they do get airfare home and back). They also don't get paid sick days and if they are so unfortunate as to become seriously injured on the job, they're terminated and sent home. I guess you could call sharing a tiny cabin with 3-5 others "free room," although I think it's stretching the point.

 

I very much doubt that you'd be squealing about how good you have it if these were your working conditions for $26,460-29,400 annually -- or considerably less $ than that if people like you had your way and were able to stiff the staff because you don't think they did anything "special" and tipping is only for "above and beyond."

 

Also consider that the daily service charge doesn't necessarily mean the team of two gets $3.50 a day. The $12 goes into a pool that's split among all tippable staff (minus bar staff) on board. I would be interested in knowing exactly how it gets divided up between food staff and housekeeping staff, if anyone has this info.

[Sea Monster 2]

Nita I have seen you on different posts and you are very patient and helpful with newbies asking repeated question or disputing repeated topics.

 

Truthfully I think NCL themselves could alleviate this dispute by UPDATING their website!!! Please see the quote above to SeaMonster from their own FAQs. So cruisers do their homework and read what they think are the ships tipping customs and figure OK NCL obviously knows what they are doing and then find something on CC or other sites and then are either confused, dismiss it, or figure it is debatable etc.

 

Hi che, I agree that it can be hard to get the right info, and you are correct that NCL's site is somewhat unwieldy when it comes to getting details to prepare for your cruise. I've had much more luck getting info on CC, but most cruisers don't know about this site. However, for almost any trip we go on these days we have multiple sources of info-- the website of the destination or company, third-party websites such as CC, guidebooks, TAs, friends and family.... there are very few things we can do in this world for which no info is available. So the same way I would figure out what the weather is likely to be so I know what to pack, I will also try to get a handle on local customs that I know are likely to come up, including tipping. Some sources will give conflicting info, so I plan for the "worst-case scenario," which in the case of tipping would mean having plenty of cash available. And as I said earlier, I always travel knowing there will probably be some unanticipated expenses and that I need to have the money to deal with them.

[bmichael415]

I hate to tose this out, but I have liked all the NCL employees/bar servers so much, have admired their efforts so much, enjoyed their conversations, their friendship, that I additionally give a buck or so for each round of drinks served. I just do it because I like to. I feel so fortunate to be able to sit there and pay $4 to $9 a drink and be sitting in a cruise ship while I do that. I didn't really do anything in my life to deserve that ability more than I'm sure these hard working folks serving me, except be fortunate in my birth, right time, right place. Just my reasons for not having a problem with it.

 

I absolutely love this attitude - people should take notes. I have been very blessed in my life and find it a privilege to be able to pass that on to others. When a bartender or waitress gives a good service, I always throw an extra something their way. Usually, the more I drink, the more generous I get, so it's wise of them to pour heavy and keep the drinks flowing anyway :D

 

That being said, I understand the frustration of having to pay an auto-grat when service is bad. When that is the case, I immediately find a supervisor or manager and complain. I certainly do not mind paying a gratuity but will not be forced in to doing so when the service is failing.

[newmexicoNita]

Except that your numbers are all wrong. On NCL and most other lines, stewards work in teams of two and have up to 30 cabins per pair. Let's assume that this team gets $3.50 a day from the $12 pp/pd service charge. That would make $2,940 per month each, minus what they have to pay other members of the housekeeping staff out of pocket (yes, that's correct) to do the rooms of passengers who don't leave their cabins until afternoon, and not including the couple of hundred dollars a month the cruiseline gives them that month. They have 12 hours of physical work a day (approximately 7 a.m.-1 p.m. and 5-10 p.m.), 7 days a week, every day of the year except the 8-12 weeks when they're at home and don't get paid at all (zero paid vacation days, although they do get airfare home and back). They also don't get paid sick days and if they are so unfortunate as to become seriously injured on the job, they're terminated and sent home. I guess you could call sharing a tiny cabin with 3-5 others "free room," although I think it's stretching the point.

 

I very much doubt that you'd be squealing about how good you have it if these were your working conditions for $26,460-29,400 annually -- or considerably less $ than that if people like you had your way and were able to stiff the staff because you don't think they did anything "special" and tipping is only for "above and beyond."

 

Also consider that the daily service charge doesn't necessarily mean the team of two gets $3.50 a day. The $12 goes into a pool that's split among all tippable staff (minus bar staff) on board. I would be interested in knowing exactly how it gets divided up between food staff and housekeeping staff, if anyone has this info.

 

thanks, I hope you made this clear. I always have trouble trying to put words in a form that everyone can understand. I think you did a great job. Too many people do not understand how the tipping system on ships work, nor do they realize how many hours the crew works each day.

 

Nita

[briansnel]

Hi pleaseNo

For most of your reasons and many of my own I fully see your point and stand by you shoulder to shoulder on this issue.

 

Just because you seem to be in the minority does not make your points any less valid or your argument any weaker.

 

So many jobs around the world go untipped. The analogy of the frog in the cold water rings true. Throw a frog into hot water and he will jump out but place same frog in cold water and heat it up he will not realise he is being boiled to death.

 

I often wonder when the tipping culture will tip itself over the edge.

The Australians have the right idea. Pay a decent wage to start with and make the labour and compensation issues the employers problem. To say the tipping culture should substitute for the lack of a decent salary is beyond me. Imagine asking your clients for more money (in non tipping jobs) - sure your bosses would love that!

 

Love that lines cruising Oz are removing auto gratuities, so it can be done.

I am getting peeved as a traveller that even before a tip comes into question Americans are fallen over and the rest of us left to our own devices. If you do not have that perceived tipping "look and accent" you get inferior service. Thats a fact.

 

O and somewhere here I read that it was insulting to say workers must move on if unhappy. Shame on the employers for exploiting their status to start with.

 

But thats just my opinion in support of pleaseNo. I know 99% will disagree and it makes neither me nor you right. It makes us different, thats all.

[newmexicoNita]

Hi pleaseNo

For most of your reasons and many of my own I fully see your point and stand by you shoulder to shoulder on this issue.

 

Just because you seem to be in the minority does not make your points any less valid or your argument any weaker.

 

So many jobs around the world go untipped. The analogy of the frog in the cold water rings true. Throw a frog into hot water and he will jump out but place same frog in cold water and heat it up he will not realise he is being boiled to death.

 

I often wonder when the tipping culture will tip itself over the edge.

The Australians have the right idea. Pay a decent wage to start with and make the labour and compensation issues the employers problem. To say the tipping culture should substitute for the lack of a decent salary is beyond me. Imagine asking your clients for more money (in non tipping jobs) - sure your bosses would love that!

 

Love that lines cruising Oz are removing auto gratuities, so it can be done.

I am getting peeved as a traveller that even before a tip comes into question Americans are fallen over and the rest of us left to our own devices. If you do not have that perceived tipping "look and accent" you get inferior service. Thats a fact.

 

O and somewhere here I read that it was insulting to say workers must move on if unhappy. Shame on the employers for exploiting their status to start with.

 

But thats just my opinion in support of pleaseNo. I know 99% will disagree and it makes neither me nor you right. It makes us different, thats all.

 

It is a cultural thing: You bring up the over done subject of the cruise line, restaurant, hotel, resort, whatever paying a decent wage and it is a good one, but what you do not understand is, if that were the case, the prices would have to be adjusted to compensate for the higher wages. So, explain to me what the difference is? no one has ever been able to do this. Also I don't know about Australia but many places in the UK and other Europian countries are adding a 10% service charge, so they are charging a gratuity, just not 15%.

 

Nita

[dockrocker]

O and somewhere here I read that it was insulting to say workers must move on if unhappy.

 

No, I didn't say it was "insulting." I pointed out that it shows little understanding of the very limited job options of much of the world's population. It's a very insular view: I can easily leave a job if I'm not happy; why can't everyone?

[briansnel]

If you pay any other employee outside the service industry additional monies to do their job it may be construed as a bribe, especially relating to government employees.

 

I fully understand that prices are low because the salaries are lower. This is also the reason clothing and merchandise from Asia is cheaper. Does not make it right, just cheaper.

 

Would you not be happier paying a few dollars more knowing an equitable wage was being paid? When I tip I would like to do so knowing it is a special privelege, not a necessity for the survival of my server.

 

Tips are not rights - they are priveleges.

 

But as you said Nita we are differing cultures and from this stems differing opinions.