Michigan to Barcelona: Delta/Paris stop?

[Salsa Dancer]

I'm in need of advice. Delta and Air France have been pricing lower, everywhere; but I read so many opinions that we should avoid Charles DeGaulle Airport (CDG) and both of these airlines primarily include Paris as a stop. Is it really that bad that I should pay a few hundred dollars more in airfare to avoid Delta and Air France?

 

My second questions is: Can I save by having a travel agent find and book my flights? I've been having a hard time finding a good fare with the right departure times both coming and going. :confused:

 

I am NOT good at the airfare portion of cruise planning.

[FlyerTalker]

Personally, I don't find CDG to be that bad....much has improved, both in terms of signage and gates. The new S2 section of T2E has lessened the use of remote pads. Then again, I can handle most any airport. Given enough connecting time and some reasonable savvy with making your way around a sprawling airport with multiple buildings, I'd say give it some serious thought.

 

There is one non-stop flight from DTW to CDG, and that is operated by AF. There are also numerous flights from DTW to BCN via AMS. You could also one-connect through Rome or JFK into BCN. You don't give any dates, so beyond that I really can't help with fare suggestions.

 

I personally like the AF inflight service. In coach, they serve wine from bottles, not a paper carton. Mrs. FT isn't a big fan of CDG but has learned to deal with it.

 

So, just what is REALLY important to you? Know that first and much will be revealed.

[Ashland]

For more flight options on DL website have you tried looking at all scheduled flights option?..I have been looking at a DL flight LAX-BCN (Aug 26-Sept 5) that uses DL connecting through ATL (I have been avoiding connecting CDG or AMS which are Air France) which doesn't show up when only looking by price and appears the price is only a slight (to me) difference..Certainly not as experienced as some/most flyers on this board but have managed so far to get the flight time/connection/aircraft and ultimate price I have wanted..Good luck !!

[ab0si]

I find it fascinating that Ashland would prefer to transfer at ATL rather than AMS. I would pay extra to transfer at AMS. In addition to being a better airport, imho, it has the practical advantage of being MUCH easier to "fix" a broken connection to BCN from Europe than the U.S.

 

As FlyerTalker indicated, CDG has greatly improved in recent years. While it is still not my favorite, it is much better (less worse?) than its reputation.

 

I would try to get on AF or KLM metal across the Atlantic .. rather than Delta (make sure who is really flying as opposed to code-sharing.

[Twickenham]

I'm in need of advice. Delta and Air France have been pricing lower, everywhere; but I read so many opinions that we should avoid Charles DeGaulle Airport (CDG) and both of these airlines primarily include Paris as a stop. Is it really that bad that I should pay a few hundred dollars more in airfare to avoid Delta and Air France?

 

My second questions is: Can I save by having a travel agent find and book my flights? I've been having a hard time finding a good fare with the right departure times both coming and going. :confused:

 

I am NOT good at the airfare portion of cruise planning.

 

I am a certified CDG hater, but I wouldn't pay 'hundreds of dollars' more to not fly through there, especially as I quite enjoyed AF the once I flew them. I've also heard much positive about both KLM and AMS, so wouldn't hesitate to take that route either (and certainly would pick them over ATL...)

 

As for saving by having a TA book your flights: well, it depends. Lots of people save on theix income tax by having someone do their taxes for them, but I do mine online with a computer program that finds all the tricks, and thus have been doing quite well on my own. So, if you're comfortable using the tools at your disposal (my fav being ITA Matrix), then you don't need to pay a fee to have a TA find you the same info. If, however, you find it all overwhelming, then it might be worth your while to have the TA book it for you.

[alidor]

Interesting - you know ALL the tricks...? As compared to travel agents who have been in the business 20 plus years...? Believe me, they know many more tricks than you can ever find online.

[Twickenham]

Interesting - you know ALL the tricks...? As compared to travel agents who have been in the business 20 plus years...? Believe me, they know many more tricks than you can ever find online.

 

The 'tricks' comment was with regard to the computer program I use to do my taxes, not booking one's own air travel. It was a metaphor.

[Salsa Dancer]

Personally, I don't find CDG to be that bad....much has improved, both in terms of signage and gates. The new S2 section of T2E has lessened the use of remote pads. Then again, I can handle most any airport. Given enough connecting time and some reasonable savvy with making your way around a sprawling airport with multiple buildings, I'd say give it some serious thought.

 

There is one non-stop flight from DTW to CDG, and that is operated by AF. There are also numerous flights from DTW to BCN via AMS. You could also one-connect through Rome or JFK into BCN. You don't give any dates, so beyond that I really can't help with fare suggestions.

 

I personally like the AF inflight service. In coach, they serve wine from bottles, not a paper carton. Mrs. FT isn't a big fan of CDG but has learned to deal with it.

 

So, just what is REALLY important to you? Know that first and much will be revealed.

 

I LOVE you people! I'm hanging on every word here as I stayed up until 3:45 a.m. looking at every flight that I could find. My eyeballs hurt!

 

I'm grateful for the input about Air France....I like my wine from bottles. ;) but will drink it from a carton, if necessary. :D

 

If you have any other suggestions, I'd be grateful. First...I haven't looked it up so don't know what "AMS" stands for. I have looked at Atlanta as an option but haven't flown much so haven't been able to decide. Here's my info:

 

Cruising on 9/4/11 out of Barcelona and returning on 9/16/11.

Flying out of GRR on 9/1/11 (Thursday)...preferrably afternoon to evening flight. (Hubby took Thursday off to pack.)

 

Preferences...fewer stops the better...sticking with the same airline, if possible, but would be okay with a GRR to Chicago/ORD or DTW on another airline if it's a good deal.

 

The return flight makes me nervous. Most seem too early out of Barcelona....such as very early a.m. and 10:30-ish. I worry that we won't make it off the ship, get to the airport, and through various security checks, etc.

 

THANKS SO MUCH!

[FlyerTalker]

Speaking of TAs: I would venture that many "cruise TAs" have little to no special skills in booking air travel. If you choose to use a TA, be sure that they have some extra knowledge about air. Otherwise, you're paying for someone who knows little more than you.

[Salsa Dancer]

I find it fascinating that Ashland would prefer to transfer at ATL rather than AMS. I would pay extra to transfer at AMS. In addition to being a better airport, imho, it has the practical advantage of being MUCH easier to "fix" a broken connection to BCN from Europe than the U.S.

 

As FlyerTalker indicated, CDG has greatly improved in recent years. While it is still not my favorite, it is much better (less worse?) than its reputation.

 

I would try to get on AF or KLM metal across the Atlantic .. rather than Delta (make sure who is really flying as opposed to code-sharing.

 

Thanks for your help. I'm relieved to hear that CDG is improving. I've never been there but have read the negatives.

 

Can you tell me why you prefer AF or KLM over Delta?

 

I've been looking up airlines, planes, seat pitch since it will be a long flight. I get a little claustrophobic and felt so uncomfortable (legs and backache) after our last flight and it was only from Texas to Grand Rapids.

[Salsa Dancer]

Speaking of TAs: I would venture that many "cruise TAs" have little to no special skills in booking air travel. If you choose to use a TA, be sure that they have some extra knowledge about air. Otherwise, you're paying for someone who knows little more than you.

 

Good points. I only wondered this after reading a googled article last night. The writer mentioned that he had searched endlessly for a good "deal" via the internet, then on 2 separate occasions, gave a TA a shot and also a hotel concierge and they found pricing MUCH lower. That caused me to rethink and wonder if I am doing all of this for nothing.

 

I also am going to check out Royal's air arrangements to have something to compare to.

 

Can I ask WHEN the optimal time is for buying? Am I shopping too early or too late for a September 1st flight? Or should I wait until summer?

[Salsa Dancer]

I am a certified CDG hater, but I wouldn't pay 'hundreds of dollars' more to not fly through there, especially as I quite enjoyed AF the once I flew them. I've also heard much positive about both KLM and AMS, so wouldn't hesitate to take that route either (and certainly would pick them over ATL...)

 

As for saving by having a TA book your flights: well, it depends. Lots of people save on theix income tax by having someone do their taxes for them, but I do mine online with a computer program that finds all the tricks, and thus have been doing quite well on my own. So, if you're comfortable using the tools at your disposal (my fav being ITA Matrix), then you don't need to pay a fee to have a TA find you the same info. If, however, you find it all overwhelming, then it might be worth your while to have the TA book it for you.

 

Thanks for your input as well. I love this place for the great advice and don't mind all pros and cons. We each have a tolerance levels for certain things. I'd like to ask what you don't like about CDG, since you have strong feelings on this. Also, I'd appreciate your input on Air France as far as an airline and travel comfort. I don't want to arrive in Barcelona feeling like a pretzel. :D

 

I did use ITA Matrix a little, after seeing a post about it on another thread. It might have been mentioned by FlyerTalker? I'll give it another try.

[Salsa Dancer]

Another source of frustration for me...

 

A lot of sites don't post the FINAL price after taxes and other charges. I'm looking at the matrix site and it appears to be like that. I liked looking on Orbitz because they show the final price and also let you select one flight "To" and choose your return flight separately. A lot of sites have the to and from flights all pre-grouped. Am I missing something? Maybe I just don't get it; so please bear with my lack of knowledge.

[zoncom]

Sad but true almost any international(foreign) line better than US carriers. CDG no worse thn any other large airport. Good shops downstairs. Flyer Talker is correct about the wine. They also keep the open bottles on counter in galley. Last time, when by myself,. the attendants proposed a wine tasting. Check out pricing on websites such as BookingBuddy and Kayak etc.

[Twickenham]

Thanks for your input as well. I love this place for the great advice and don't mind all pros and cons. We each have a tolerance levels for certain things. I'd like to ask what you don't like about CDG, since you have strong feelings on this. Also, I'd appreciate your input on Air France as far as an airline and travel comfort. I don't want to arrive in Barcelona feeling like a pretzel. :D

 

I did use ITA Matrix a little, after seeing a post about it on another thread. It might have been mentioned by FlyerTalker? I'll give it another try.

 

Oh, take my CDG hatred with a grain of salt, as it's mostly to do with a couple of run-ins with stupid officials that have tainted my view (I don't mix well with unimaginative Parisians). I haven't been through in years, so I'd give more heed to the opinions of those with more miles in the FF account than me... :D. As for AF, I found it fine as comfort goes, and LOVED the baskets of little individual baguettes they handed out at dinner (yeah, I'm a sucker for cute food :rolleyes:). My friend took them to Spain last year and raved about them, so I think I'd tolerate CDG if it meant going on AF.

 

AMS, by the way, is the airport code for Amsterdam-Schiphol airport.

 

ITA is a terrific tool, if you know how to use it. You have to think creatively when searching if you want to see all your price and routing options. For instance, you can specify the timeframe of departure of your flight - for instance, in your case you can tell it to only show you flights departing BCN after 11 am. You can search departures from more than one airport at a time, with possible arrival at more than one airport - there's the 'Within XX miles radius' option, but you can also imput airport codes separate from that. And you can also specify to omit certain airlines if you want. Play around with it, and you'll find it's a brilliant tool.

[FlyerTalker]

Good points. I only wondered this after reading a googled article last night. The writer mentioned that he had searched endlessly for a good "deal" via the internet, then on 2 separate occasions, gave a TA a shot and also a hotel concierge and they found pricing MUCH lower. That caused me to rethink and wonder if I am doing all of this for nothing.

It is quite possible that the TA gave the writer a consolidator ticket, which is significantly different than tickets bought directly from the airline. The obsession with a "good deal" often has people buying a less-expensive product that is NOT the same as what they are comparing from the airline.

I also am going to check out Royal's air arrangements to have something to compare to.

Remember....cruiseline air is NOT the same as what you buy yourself. Read the sticky at the top of the forum for details. It's not apples to apples.

Can I ask WHEN the optimal time is for buying? Am I shopping too early or too late for a September 1st flight? Or should I wait until summer?

You can ask....;)

 

There is no magic time. For early September, I would say you shouldn't be waiting. Demand to Europe is high in summer, so is there any economic incentive for airlines to reduce prices later on? You will be competing for seats with the couple thousand other folks on your cruise, as well as other tourists and business folk. Think Econ 101.

 

NOTE: There are some studies that show there may be a "trough" in the price graph between the opening of the flight and departure date. But trying to time that may be like trying to time buying stocks. Best advice tends to be, if you find a price that you are comfortable with, grab it. It may soon be gone. Capitalism 101.

A lot of sites don't post the FINAL price after taxes and other charges. I'm looking at the matrix site and it appears to be like that.

In my experience, ITA gives you the all in price after taxes and surcharges. In fact, you can find the breakdown in ITA by clicking on "View itinerary and fare details" in the blue box under the flight details. It doesn't include options, such as luggage, seat upgrades and booking fees. The DL site puts the base fare in the big bold numbers, but it does have the total price in the smaller print underneath. Best way it to always quote AI (all-in) per person to keep from doing gyrations in the brain.

[ab0si]

Thanks for your help. I'm relieved to hear that CDG is improving. I've never been there but have read the negatives.

 

Can you tell me why you prefer AF or KLM over Delta?

 

I've been looking up airlines, planes, seat pitch since it will be a long flight. I get a little claustrophobic and felt so uncomfortable (legs and backache) after our last flight and it was only from Texas to Grand Rapids.

 

I think the service is better on most European carriers (and this is even more true for most Asian carriers) than on U.S. based carriers.

 

FWIW, a few thoughts ...

 

Kayak uses the same "engine" as ITA. You might find it easier to use (might not, of course, but check it out if you haven't yet).

 

Seatguru is the easiest source for seat pitch, etc.

 

I readily admit that I have never flown home from Barcelona the day the ship docks. However, assuming there are no evil glitches, making a 10:30 flight should not be a problem. The airport is not far.

 

I used to fly overseas quite a bit. It was (and still is) the only time I use sleeping pills. I never found a reason for being awake on a long flight -- whether flying coach, biz or 1st class.

[Ashland]

I find it fascinating that Ashland would prefer to transfer at ATL rather than AMS. I would pay extra to transfer at AMS. In addition to being a better airport, imho, it has the practical advantage of being MUCH easier to "fix" a broken connection to BCN from Europe than the U.S.

 

As FlyerTalker indicated, CDG has greatly improved in recent years. While it is still not my favorite, it is much better (less worse?) than its reputation.

 

I would try to get on AF or KLM metal across the Atlantic .. rather than Delta (make sure who is really flying as opposed to code-sharing.

"Fascinating" Maybe it also has something to do with using my DL "Miles" ;)..Also I don't consider the airport a destination and would not pay more to connect through AMS...

[FlyerTalker]

Maybe it also has something to do with using my DL "Miles" ;)

Considering that you can use DL miles on both AF and KL, I don't understand why DL metal is your only option. DL's computer wants to put you onto DL metal through their website, but you can often get better redemption on partners via the phone. Both in terms of miles needed and availability.

Also I don't consider the airport a destination and would not pay more to connect through AMS...

There are some airports that I prefer over others, along with the service you can get through them. Depending on the fare differential, I might make that kind of choice.

 

Think of this....if you connect through ABC, you only have one flight option a day. And if you have irops, you are hosed due to few options. OTOH, connecting through XYZ gives you multiple options and greater "protection" in an irops situation. Could connecting through XYZ be worth paying more? That's an individual choice. There are many airports that I would avoid/prefer in the <$25 range, some in the $25-$100 range and a couple that I most assuredly would miss/chose even for $100+.

[Salsa Dancer]

Personally, I don't find CDG to be that bad....much has improved, both in terms of signage and gates. The new S2 section of T2E has lessened the use of remote pads. Then again, I can handle most any airport. Given enough connecting time and some reasonable savvy with making your way around a sprawling airport with multiple buildings, I'd say give it some serious thought.

 

There is one non-stop flight from DTW to CDG, and that is operated by AF. There are also numerous flights from DTW to BCN via AMS. You could also one-connect through Rome or JFK into BCN. You don't give any dates, so beyond that I really can't help with fare suggestions.

 

I personally like the AF inflight service. In coach, they serve wine from bottles, not a paper carton. Mrs. FT isn't a big fan of CDG but has learned to deal with it.

 

So, just what is REALLY important to you? Know that first and much will be revealed.

 

Flyer...I have not been able to find that non-stop from Detroit to Barcelona (Air France)...I'm on Kayak. I'd like to look at that one for comparison. Help?

 

I don't know what a "remote pad" is...

 

Also, my husband was told that if we have a connection in Europe, we have to go through customs...such as in France. Is that correct? I would want to be sure that we have enough time between flights. One I was looking at only had 1 hour and 15 min. Is that too short?

 

It didn't make sense to me that if we flew in on Air France, that we would have to collect our checked luggage, go through customs, then re-check the bags, but he insists that is what he was told. He said he had to do that on his way into Brazil from Michigan, even though he stayed with the same airline the whole way. ???

[ab0si]

Flyer...I have not been able to find that non-stop from Detroit to Barcelona (Air France)...I'm on Kayak. I'd like to look at that one for comparison. Help?

 

I don't know what a "remote pad" is...

 

Also, my husband was told that if we have a connection in Europe, we have to go through customs...such as in France. Is that correct? I would want to be sure that we have enough time between flights. One I was looking at only had 1 hour and 15 min. Is that too short?

 

It didn't make sense to me that if we flew in on Air France, that we would have to collect our checked luggage, go through customs, then re-check the bags, but he insists that is what he was told. He said he had to do that on his way into Brazil from Michigan, even though he stayed with the same airline the whole way. ???

 

Remote pad: Plane parks away from the terminal. Passengers go from the gate area down to the tarmac, board a bus which takes them to the plane. Passengers walk up stairs to the plane ... or reverse of this if leaving rather than boarding the plane. Serious anti-fun if you mobility issues or if the weather is ugly; otherwise merely a PITA.

 

When flying from the U.S. to Europe (technically to within the Schengen Area, but this is only an issue if connecting in Britain) you will go through immigration (passport control) when you first enter (Paris in your example). You will not go through customs until Barcelona. Customs is seldom an issue .. you will likely not even notice it.

 

The pick up baggage, customs, recheck baggage silliness is only when entering the U.S. not when entering the Schengen Area.

[Salsa Dancer]

Remote pad: Plane parks away from the terminal. Passengers go from the gate area down to the tarmac, board a bus which takes them to the plane. Passengers walk up stairs to the plane ... or reverse of this if leaving rather than boarding the plane. Serious anti-fun if you mobility issues or if the weather is ugly; otherwise merely a PITA.

 

When flying from the U.S. to Europe (technically to within the Schengen Area, but this is only an issue if connecting in Britain) you will go through immigration (passport control) when you first enter (Paris in your example). You will not go through customs until Barcelona. Customs is seldom an issue .. you will likely not even notice it.

 

The pick up baggage, customs, recheck baggage silliness is only when entering the U.S. not when entering the Schengen Area.

 

According to Wiki, regarding the Schengen Area (a term I'd never heard of before:o), the border controls are for those travelling into the area but not within the area. Does that mean that if we fly into a European airport, from the US, we have to go through customs once, then let's say from France to Spain, no customs?

 

If that is right, then even if we fly into Barcelona, from JFK, we go through customs once and are done...correct?

[FlyerTalker]

Flyer...I have not been able to find that non-stop from Detroit to Barcelona (Air France)...I'm on Kayak. I'd like to look at that one for comparison. Help?

Dates always help. The flight is not daily during the winter. You can use the SkyTeam electronic timetable if you want to look at multiple ST airlines. Available on the SkyTeam site.

If that is right, then even if we fly into Barcelona, from JFK, we go through customs once and are done...correct?

Remember that there is a difference between "immigration" and "customs". Not interchangeable terms.

 

As mentioned, flying into the Schengen area, you will clear immigration at your first point of entry, and clear customs at your final destination within the area. If merely transiting Schengen by air (such as a routing DTW-CDG-DXB), you would not leave the secure transit zone at CDG, thus you don't actually enter the Schengen area.

 

Once within the Schengen area, you are free to move between countries in the area without immigration or customs.

[scottbee]

According to Wiki, regarding the Schengen Area (a term I'd never heard of before:o), the border controls are for those travelling into the area but not within the area. Does that mean that if we fly into a European airport, from the US, we have to go through customs once, then let's say from France to Spain, no customs?

 

If that is right, then even if we fly into Barcelona, from JFK, we go through customs once and are done...correct?

 

Immigration: "Is this person allowed into the country"

Customs: "Are these goods allowed into the country"

 

Schengen applies to people (Immigration); so you will clear Immigration on your arrivial into the Shengen zone. Between Schengen countries you transit in much the same way you'd go between Oregon and Idaho.

 

Customs applies at most countries but is a tiny formality; and involves (generally) just handing someone a filled out card.

 

So; if you fly JFK-AMS-BCN (New York-Amsterdam-Barcelona); you clear immigration in AMS, and customs in BCN. You do not need to pick up and re-check your luggage.

[Globaliser]

Customs applies at most countries but is a tiny formality; and involves (generally) just handing someone a filled out card.

 

So; if you fly JFK-AMS-BCN (New York-Amsterdam-Barcelona); you clear immigration in AMS, and customs in BCN. You do not need to pick up and re-check your luggage.

Actually, to be technically correct: There's no Customs border between any of the EU countries. So travelling from Amsterdam to Barcelona, you clear neither immigration (because of Schengen) nor Customs (because of the EU).

 

Someone who flies JFK-AMS-BCN clears Customs at BCN only because normal EU arrangements allow Customs clearance to be deferred until the final destination, not because there's a Customs border between the Netherlands and Spain.

 

Personally, I can't remember coming across any cards or forms for clearing Customs in any EU country.