Why do I need a passport?

[BruceMuzz]

Yesterday in San Juan, two cruise ships had to depart several hours early to avoid Hurricane Irene. They left behind over 450 passengers who were arriving last minute for their cruise of a lifetime.

 

Unfortunately, most of those passengers did not have passports.

They didn't have trip insurance either.

 

Those without passports will not be able to join the ships in the next port, because they cannot fly without a passport.

The cruise lines will not refund their cruise fares, and unless they want to pay extra fees to the airlines to change their air tickets, they are going to spend lots more money for a week in a San Juan hotel.

 

So they will end up spending thousands of dollars extra and losing their cruise, in order to save $100 on a passport.

[G.M.T.]

Yesterday in San Juan, two cruise ships had to depart several hours early to avoid Hurricane Irene. They left behind over 450 passengers who were arriving last minute for their cruise of a lifetime.

 

Unfortunately, most of those passengers did not have passports.

They didn't have trip insurance either.

 

Those without passports will not be able to join the ships in the next port, because they cannot fly without a passport.

The cruise lines will not refund their cruise fares, and unless they want to pay extra fees to the airlines to change their air tickets, they are going to spend lots more money for a week in a San Juan hotel.

 

So they will end up spending thousands of dollars extra and losing their cruise, in order to save $100 on a passport.

Those passengers who did not have a passport, did if fact get a passport in that they passed up on St. Thomas port.:)

 

I just cannot understand the stupidity of people saying "I don't need a passport".

 

As an European I would never enter a foreign country without my passport, even if there are no border controls.

 

I have seen CC members moan about the cost (all seam about the same)

$100, £100 or €100, so for a family of 4 that would $400 ov er 10 yeras, so $40 a year. How much do passengers spend on drink while onboard or the auto tipping amount ( I am not advocating that this should be cust but just trying to put things into perspective).

 

Ron

[Pushka]

I have had a passport all of my adult life - never without one for almost 40 years! I dont understand the reluctance to get one.

[sparky-elpaso]

I look at those little blue books as my ticket to the world. :)

[paul929207]

Unfortunately those 450 people are paying some serious stupid tax.

[Philiesphan]

I cannot get a passport due to child support issues from years ago. State says I still owe. My youngest is 25 years old. I am planning to book a cruise for 10/02/2011 to Bermuda on Carnival Pride out of Baltimore. I am reading conflicting rules and regs concerning entry into Bermuda and re-entry to the US. Do I need a passport or can I use Birth Certificate, Enhanced Drivers License or what? Please help. I plan on booking today 08/24/2011.

[stargate fan]

Those passengers who did not have a passport, did if fact get a passport in that they passed up on St. Thomas port.:)

 

I just cannot understand the stupidity of people saying "I don't need a passport".

 

As an European I would never enter a foreign country without my passport, even if there are no border controls.

 

I have seen CC members moan about the cost (all seam about the same)

$100, £100 or €100, so for a family of 4 that would $400 ov er 10 yeras, so $40 a year. How much do passengers spend on drink while onboard or the auto tipping amount ( I am not advocating that this should be cust but just trying to put things into perspective).

 

Ron

 

FYI, St. Thomas, part of the US Virgin Islands with St. John and St. Croix, is a US territory, so US citizens do not need passports to enter or leave the island. Same with Puerto Rico, American Samoa, Guam, Marianas.

 

We decided to get passports in time for our 2002 cruise, which was five months after 9/11. Our oldest son has my olive skin and dark hair, and looked much older than his 14 years. (Funny, our youngest is very fair with lighter hair and bright green/blue eyes.) We wanted to protect him from any kind of profiling more than anything else. Now that we have them, we keep them updated.

[phoenix1181]

I cannot get a passport due to child support issues from years ago. State says I still owe. My youngest is 25 years old. I am planning to book a cruise for 10/02/2011 to Bermuda on Carnival Pride out of Baltimore. I am reading conflicting rules and regs concerning entry into Bermuda and re-entry to the US. Do I need a passport or can I use Birth Certificate, Enhanced Drivers License or what? Please help. I plan on booking today 08/24/2011.

 

Skip it!

[bplazo]

I was always one of "those" who would not get a passport and the only reason I finally did was because my daughter was going to go to Europe for school and I wanted one in case there was an emergency.

 

I do not know why I waited so long to get one because it is so much easier to travel with it.

[B and C Blake]

I cannot get a passport due to child support issues from years ago. State says I still owe. My youngest is 25 years old. I am planning to book a cruise for 10/02/2011 to Bermuda on Carnival Pride out of Baltimore. I am reading conflicting rules and regs concerning entry into Bermuda and re-entry to the US. Do I need a passport or can I use Birth Certificate, Enhanced Drivers License or what? Please help. I plan on booking today 08/24/2011.

 

OK so here is my experience. Back in 2008 I had booked a cruise. At that time they said passports were required.{It changed later to not needed}

I was paying arrears not actual child support but for the welfare cash my ex had received. Both of my children were adults.

I had what the State Dept deemed at payments in place. The State Dept said I could apply but needed a letter from Child Support.

OK, so I wrote CS and the COUNTY said NO!!!!

 

The county over rode what the State Dept required.:eek: Go figure!

We had to cancel our cruise.

After we cancelled the requirements changed to only needing BC and DL.

 

Yes you can cruise with DL and BC on a closed loop. Meaning you are leaving from and returning to the same point.

[jmf123]

I cannot get a passport due to child support issues from years ago. State says I still owe. My youngest is 25 years old. I am planning to book a cruise for 10/02/2011 to Bermuda on Carnival Pride out of Baltimore. I am reading conflicting rules and regs concerning entry into Bermuda and re-entry to the US. Do I need a passport or can I use Birth Certificate, Enhanced Drivers License or what? Please help. I plan on booking today 08/24/2011.

 

To be sure you are receiving correct information for your particular situation, I recommend going to the official website: http://www.travel.state.gov

[paul929207]

I cannot get a passport due to child support issues from years ago. State says I still owe. My youngest is 25 years old. I am planning to book a cruise for 10/02/2011 to Bermuda on Carnival Pride out of Baltimore. I am reading conflicting rules and regs concerning entry into Bermuda and re-entry to the US. Do I need a passport or can I use Birth Certificate, Enhanced Drivers License or what? Please help. I plan on booking today 08/24/2011.

I think you need to get some type of legal help with this issue. It is not one that many people are going to be familiar with. For most US citizens, the cruise you are looking at would only require a BC and government issued photo ID. However, since you cannot get a passport, you could be on a list that would prevent you from boarding the cruise. You don't want to find out at the pier that you cannot board. You would lose everything you had paid.

[pms4104]

Perhaps the WHTI should be changed to mandate passports ... the exceptions currently permitted give people a false sense of security. Of course, there are those who wouldn't or couldn't travel outside the States if they had to have passports to do so ... but there are many lovely domestic destinations they could choose for vacations.

[njhorseman]

To be sure you are receiving correct information for your particular situation, I recommend going to the official website: http://www.travel.state.gov

 

The State Department's Web site is not the right source. State issues passports, but it is not responsible for enforcing the entry requirements at the border. That job falls to the Department of Homeland Security. The correct requirements can be found here:

 

http://www.getyouhome.gov/html/lang_eng/eng_sa.html

 

 

 

"Closed Loop" Cruises: U.S. citizens who board a cruise ship at a port within the United States, travel only within the Western Hemisphere, and return to the same U.S. port on the same ship may present a government issued photo identification, along with proof of citizenship (an original or copy of his or her birth certificate, a Consular report of Birth Abroad, or a Certificate of Naturalization). Please be aware that you may still be required to present a passport to enter the foreign countries your cruise ship is visiting. Check with your cruise line to ensure you have the appropriate documents.

 

The US regulation is 22 CFR § 53.2 (b)(2) which reads as follows:

 

Quote:

Exceptions.

(b) A U.S. citizen is not required to bear a valid U.S. passport to enter or depart the United States:

 

(2) When traveling entirely within the Western Hemisphere on a cruise ship, and when the U.S. citizen boards the cruise ship at a port or place within the United States and returns on the return voyage of the same cruise ship to the same United States port or place from where he or she originally departed. That U.S. citizen may present a government-issued photo identification document in combination with either an original or a copy of his or her birth certificate, a Consular Report of Birth Abroad issued by the Department, or a Certificate of Naturalization issued by U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services before entering the United States; if the U.S. citizen is under the age of 16, he or she may present either an original or a copy of his or her birth certificate, a Consular Report of Birth Abroad issued by the Department, or a Certificate of Naturalization issued by U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services;

[tracyanns]

Yesterday in San Juan, two cruise ships had to depart several hours early to avoid Hurricane Irene. They left behind over 450 passengers who were arriving last minute for their cruise of a lifetime.

 

Unfortunately, most of those passengers did not have passports.

They didn't have trip insurance either.

 

Those without passports will not be able to join the ships in the next port, because they cannot fly without a passport.

The cruise lines will not refund their cruise fares, and unless they want to pay extra fees to the airlines to change their air tickets, they are going to spend lots more money for a week in a San Juan hotel.

 

So they will end up spending thousands of dollars extra and losing their cruise, in order to save $100 on a passport.

 

How do you know the cruiseline will not refund their fare...if the ship sailed ahead of scheduled time and that left people behind, that is at no fault of the guests and no guest is REQURED to have a passport so they can't hold that against them...I think you will find that the cruiselines will step up and make this right for them in the end...

[pms4104]

How do you know the cruiseline will not refund their fare...if the ship sailed ahead of scheduled time and that left people behind, that is at no fault of the guests and no guest is REQURED to have a passport so they can't hold that against them...I think you will find that the cruiselines will step up and make this right for them in the end...

He is cruiseline staff/management ... so I surmise he would be familiar with how the lines would handle the situation.

[tracyanns]

He is cruiseline staff/management ... so I surmise he would be familiar with how the lines would handle the situation.

 

Maybe, but this is a bit of a unique situation and I wouldn't be suprised at all if these people didn't atleast get a future credit...after all, they want everyone to fly from PR to St. Thomas at their expense...450 people, and how many of those flights are there a day?

 

This is a decision the cruise line made for the safety of the ship and in turn has left behind 450 passengers...I know if the ship leaves without you as you were late that is on you but if the ship leaves without you because it left early, I don't think it is and I don't have my cruise contract in front of me but they should fix this for them.

[cruzeluver]

Perhaps the WHTI should be changed to mandate passports

 

It absolutely should, however, the cruise lines have spent a lot of time and money to keep the closed-loop exception in place. I do think eventually passports will be required for all international travel, as it should be.

[pms4104]

Maybe, but this is a bit of a unique situation and I wouldn't be suprised at all if these people didn't atleast get a future credit...after all, they want everyone to fly from PR to St. Thomas at their expense...450 people, and how many of those flights are there a day?

 

This is a decision the cruise line made for the safety of the ship and in turn has left behind 450 passengers...I know if the ship leaves without you as you were late that is on you but if the ship leaves without you because it left early, I don't think it is and I don't have my cruise contract in front of me but they should fix this for them.

This portion of the HAL Cruise Contract may be relevant, and I suspect it is typical of most other lines:

 

" 5. Change in Itinerary/Cancellation/Cabotage Laws: (a) Although we will use our best efforts to provide you with the Cruise, Cruisetour and/or Land Trips, situations may occur which require that changes be made. By way of example only, we may adjust itineraries and schedules, delay departures or arrivals, or cancel a Cruise, Cruisetour or Land Trip, due to casualty, weather, labor problems, the need to render assistance to others, governmental or insurer directives, passenger or employee injury or illness, schedule delays or changes by third parties, repair and maintenance requirements, fuel or other shortages, or damage to the Ship, other means of transportation, roads, tracks, bridges, docks, equipment or machinery. Furthermore, the Master of the Ship or of any other vessel as well as the operator of any other means of transportation may, in his/her sole discretion, elect not to proceed in the ordinary course. Consequently, we cannot guarantee the itinerary of the Cruise, Cruisetour or any Land Trip (including time of sailing from or arrival at any port or that all ports will, in fact, be called at, or that all places on your Cruisetour or Land Trip will be visited). We reserve the right to provide you with alternative transportation whenever the Cruise, Cruisetour or Land Trip is unable to proceed or be completed in the ordinary course or, in the case of hotels, to substitute facilities of similar category in cases where the planned hotel is unavailable due to overbooking or otherwise."

 

Further, HAL and other lines strongly suggest insurance and passports.

[pms4104]

It absolutely should, however, the cruise lines have spent a lot of time and money to keep the closed-loop exception in place. I do think eventually passports will be required for all international travel, as it should be.

Ironic that they would lobby for the closed-loop exception (to fill the ships, I surmise) and at the same time strongly encourage travel with passports. Following from HAL's cruise planning advice:

 

"Holland America Line highly recommends that all guests carry a passport that is valid for at least six months beyond the completion date of your travel. Having a passport will enable you to fly from the U.S. to a foreign port in the event you miss your scheduled embarkation or to fly back to the U.S. if you need to disembark the ship mid-cruise due to an emergency."

 

I cite HAL because that is the line I am most familiar with ... but I would guess this statement is typical in the industry.

[tracyanns]

This portion of the HAL Cruise Contract may be relevant, and I suspect it is typical of most other lines:

 

" 5. Change in Itinerary/Cancellation/Cabotage Laws: (a) Although we will use our best efforts to provide you with the Cruise, Cruisetour and/or Land Trips, situations may occur which require that changes be made. By way of example only, we may adjust itineraries and schedules, delay departures or arrivals, or cancel a Cruise, Cruisetour or Land Trip, due to casualty, weather, labor problems, the need to render assistance to others, governmental or insurer directives, passenger or employee injury or illness, schedule delays or changes by third parties, repair and maintenance requirements, fuel or other shortages, or damage to the Ship, other means of transportation, roads, tracks, bridges, docks, equipment or machinery. Furthermore, the Master of the Ship or of any other vessel as well as the operator of any other means of transportation may, in his/her sole discretion, elect not to proceed in the ordinary course. Consequently, we cannot guarantee the itinerary of the Cruise, Cruisetour or any Land Trip (including time of sailing from or arrival at any port or that all ports will, in fact, be called at, or that all places on your Cruisetour or Land Trip will be visited). We reserve the right to provide you with alternative transportation whenever the Cruise, Cruisetour or Land Trip is unable to proceed or be completed in the ordinary course or, in the case of hotels, to substitute facilities of similar category in cases where the planned hotel is unavailable due to overbooking or otherwise."

 

Further, HAL and other lines strongly suggest insurance and passports.

 

I have to say I don't personally consider the embarkation time an itinerary change...When they say my ship sails at 4:00 and I need to be onboard no later than 2:30 I am there by 2:30...but this ship left atleast 4 hours prior to sailing time...and they said they had no way to contact these guests...find that hard to believe as they have your e-mail addresses and phone numbers, now maybe you wouldn't be able to get the message, but they didn't even attempt to contact them and they admitted that...

 

Yes and no, now CCL will give you a full refund with or without insurance for weather related issues within 48 hours of your cruise, so all cruise lines will handle this in their own way...RCCL in the news, is putting this on the port saying this was their decision and because it was a safety issue it is out of their hands...right now it is up to them what they want to do and they have not yet made a decision...all I can say is they really should man up and take this hit...it would be the right thing to do. I, personally think in the end they will as this is not affecting 5 or 6 people...450 people is a BIG number on a cruise of that size...

[klfrodo]

I have to say I don't personally consider the embarkation time an itinerary change...When they say my ship sails at 4:00 and I need to be onboard no later than 2:30 I am there by 2:30...but this ship left atleast 4 hours prior to sailing time...and they said they had no way to contact these guests...find that hard to believe as they have your e-mail addresses and phone numbers, now maybe you wouldn't be able to get the message, but they didn't even attempt to contact them and they admitted that...

 

Yes and no, now CCL will give you a full refund with or without insurance for weather related issues within 48 hours of your cruise, so all cruise lines will handle this in their own way...RCCL in the news, is putting this on the port saying this was their decision and because it was a safety issue it is out of their hands...right now it is up to them what they want to do and they have not yet made a decision...all I can say is they really should man up and take this hit...it would be the right thing to do. I, personally think in the end they will as this is not affecting 5 or 6 people...450 people is a BIG number on a cruise of that size...

 

I'll respectfully disagree with you.

 

This issue may affect 500 passengers, but the cruislines have to satisfy millions of stockholders. As a stockholder I don't want my company to take a financial hit because 500 passengers didn't want to get passports or insurance. The decision NOT to get insurance and NOT to get passports is not an easy decision to make but they are decisions that are made knowing full well the risks. So why does my company have to assume the financial hit for someone elses decision to take a risk?

[tracyanns]

I'll respectfully disagree with you.

 

This issue may affect 500 passengers, but the cruislines have to satisfy millions of stockholders. As a stockholder I don't want my company to take a financial hit because 500 passengers didn't want to get passports or insurance. The decision NOT to get insurance and NOT to get passports is not an easy decision to make but they are decisions that are made knowing full well the risks. So why does my company have to assume the financial hit for someone elses decision to take a risk?

 

I am also a stockholder, of both RCCL and CCL but guess what, my last cruise cost me more than my 200 shares of RCL are worth and I would rather have my stock drop $1 a share for a short period of time than have my cruise ruined...and while I see where you are coming from, RCCL does not REQUIRE a passport to cruise from San Juan so people don't NEED to get them, and that may be the real issue here...even though the government doesn't require it, maybe the cruise lines should or alteast make some sort of caveat that makes them not liable for ANYTHING if you don't have one...and this isn't a passport issue anyway, this is making something right.

 

NONE of these people missed the ship because they didn't have a passport or insurance, they missed it for something they had no control over nor did the cruise line, but I am willing to bet the actual value of a cruise credit is not what we pay and the positive publicity for the company will be better than the negative they will receive, which can in also affect the stock price...Actually a number of these people had passports...

 

There really is no win here, they either refund the money, they are already sailing in the negative with all of the lost revenue from the ship board accounts, and RCCL takes a hit and walks away knowing they did the right thing, and with their projected earnings this year this would not put them in the negative...

 

Or they say, sorry too bad and maybe some of these people never cruise with them again and everyone learns a lesson, but really what would insurance have gotten you? Your money back, but not your cruise and your time and your aggrevation or frustration and actually they said ALL insurance might not cover it so I guess now it depends on the insurance you got...

[bus man]

I'll respectfully disagree with you.

 

This issue may affect 500 passengers, but the cruislines have to satisfy millions of stockholders. As a stockholder I don't want my company to take a financial hit because 500 passengers didn't want to get passports or insurance. The decision NOT to get insurance and NOT to get passports is not an easy decision to make but they are decisions that are made knowing full well the risks. So why does my company have to assume the financial hit for someone elses decision to take a risk?

 

And I will respectfully disagree with you.

 

I will concede that it's legal for a cruise ship to depart ahead of schedule, and in this case it appears that this was the prudent thing to do. But that is not the fault of the would-be passengers who had not yet arrived when the ship departed. If a ship can leave ahead of schedule and assume no responsibility for their left-behind guests, then what's to stop them from doing it again, and again, and again, for reasons of convenience or financial gain rather than safety?

 

I will be leery of trusting my vacation dollars to any company who feels they can abandon (with or without just cause) their paying customers -- when these customers are adhering to the travel requirements and posted schedule -- and not justly compensate them.

[klfrodo]

I am also a stockholder, of both RCCL and CCL but guess what, my last cruise cost me more than my 200 shares of RCL are worth and I would rather have my stock drop $1 a share for a short period of time than have my cruise ruined...and while I see where you are coming from, RCCL does not REQUIRE a passport to cruise from San Juan so people don't need to get them...and this isn't a passport issue anyway, this is making something right.

 

NONE of these people missed the ship because they didn't have a passport or insurance, they missed it for something they had no control over nor did the cruise line, but I am willing to bet the actual value of a cruise credit is not what we pay and the positive publicity for the company will be better than the negative they will receive...

 

:eek: $1 a share? That means my net worth just dropped by $5000.

Passports are an issue. CCL is flying those passengers who missed the ship to Barbados to catch the ship at no cost to the passenger. Except for those who don't have passports.

 

Positive publicity vs. Negative publicity

We here on CC hear this same sorry story every year at this time. "Do the right thing", " the negative publicity will kill them" guess what? The ships continue to sail full. So where's the negative backlash?

 

 

BTW: Just want you to know that it is not my intention to publicly argue with you. I consider this just a friendly debate on a difference of opinion. I do feel empathy for those affected. I just don't feel that I have a responsibility to make them financially whole again for their decisions.