Big mistake by Holland America

[sail7seas]

Holland America could have made it. However, money speaks, and every ship as well as every cruise line in fact is up for sale at any time "for the right price"

 

 

 

Most everything in the world has a 'right price'. Few things are not 'buyable' if one puts up enough money. :) :D

 

[Boytjie]

I am not a lawyer (and I don't play one on TV), but this popped out to me (my emphasis added in purple):

 

"5. Change in Itinerary/Cancellation/Cabotage Laws: (a) Although we will use our best efforts to provide you with the Cruise, Cruisetour and/or Land Trips, situations may occur which require that changes be made.

 

"By way of example only, we may adjust itineraries and schedules, delay departures or arrivals, or cancel a Cruise, Cruisetour or Land Trip, due to casualty, weather, labor problems, the need to render assistance to others, governmental or insurer directives, passenger or employee injury or illness, schedule delays or changes by third parties, repair and maintenance requirements, fuel or other shortages, or damage to the Ship, other means of transportation, roads, tracks, bridges, docks, equipment or machinery.

 

So what follows that is not a list of only what is covered but examples of what may be...

[KirkNC]

Liz, I'm sorry this happened to you and I understand how upset you must be.

 

However, this sort of thing does happen from time to time throughout the cruise industry. Royal Caribbean did it to us a couple of years ago, and it is not uncommon for other lines to do it, too.

 

Usually, some sort of offer is made to customers who are cancelled, so that they can take another cruise at slightly reduced rates.

 

By the way, if you booked through a travel agent Holland America will not deal with you direct, but will communicate through your travel agent. This, too, is standard in the industry.

 

I hope you will be able to book another cruise and that you will enjoy that cruise.

 

Ditto

[MadManOfBethesda]

------------------------

 

I know this can happen in the cruise industry but ( to me ) it does not make it right. :mad:

 

Why not? You have the right to cancel your cruise before final payment without penalty. Why shouldn't the cruiseline itself not have the same option?

[TraelorMex]

I know this is opff topic, but I am just curious....why do people say 'needless to say'....and then proceded to say it?

[IndyDenise]

Besides refunding your deposit, I thought (mistakenly?) that the cruise line will reimburse you for at least the cost of changing your air tickets or any other expenses you may have already incurred if they cancel your reservation because they have chartered the ship? Is this still correct?

---------------------------

 

Honestly I would not expect HAL to have to refund my airfare...that is what insurance is for....

[sail7seas]

:confused: Why would it be better if they gave you Less notice of the charter?

 

The more the notice the better chance for you to make alternative plans that please you.

 

[SwissMyst]

I know this is opff topic, but I am just curious....why do people say 'needless to say'....and then proceded to say it?

 

It is a form of mild scolding, as in I should not have to bother to tell you this, but I will.

 

But needless to say, this is probably not the answer you were looking for. ;) We get in trouble often on the internet we we are oblique.

[SwissMyst]

Why not? You have the right to cancel your cruise before final payment without penalty. Why shouldn't the cruiseline itself not have the same option?

 

Exactly. Look how many threads of outrage we see when passengers that cancel at the last minute in violation of clear cancellations terms demand special treatment for the rules not to apply to them.

 

The cruise reservation is a mutually agreed contract in writing, Read its terms before you sign it and be prepared to exercise any rights that accrue as well as accept any liabilities.

[tangerinebunny]

Of course the O.P. is angry and disappointed.

 

When I used to try to convince my mom that "everyone does it" as justification for my own transgressions, she never bit.

 

It is unfair.

 

But it's not going to change.

[Typhoon1]

Not a big mistake by HAL. Any cruise line will routinely cancel a cruise to charter the ship.

 

It's all about revenue. Charters are where the $$$$ are. They may have inconvenienced you, but all they are concerned with is making money.

[jer_l]

HAL was sold to the Carnival Cruise Corporation years ago...Apparently they couldn't make it as a independent cruise line.

 

Or perhaps they were doing well enough that a bigger corporation wanted to acquire them.

[iancal]

It can happen on most cruise lines. HAL is no different.

 

You need to get over it and move forward. Hopefully it will not happen to your next reservation.

[Karennella]

Yes, it is a business, but it is in the business of selling a product of discretional expenditure

We were recently stranded at Heathrow in London when Qantas was grounded for two days. We have just agreed on the compensation, which included for everyone a free return flight within Australia or to NZ. But it has taken hours and hours of work to get to this stage. Although we are long term Qantas Frequent Flyers and also attempt where possible to support Aussie companies, I will not be using them this coming year.

I presume HAL have decided the charters are worth more to them repeat business from individual customers.

Many of the bus tour companies in Europe have tours designated as guarenteed departures, which gives people more confidence to book their flights etc.

[iancal]

The decision to charter a ship that accomodates 1200-2000 people is a little different than the decision to charter a tour or tour bus that has maybe 40 odd people. Extra busses for a second section of a tour can easily be found. Cruise ships are a little more difficult to come by.

 

This is not a HAL issue. It can happen on all mass market cruise lines. This could just as easily happen to you on Princess or Celebrity.

 

I am not an appologist for HAL. This is an industry practice. I would not be thrilled if it happened to me.

[baggal]

[quote name='IndyDenise']---------------------------

Honestly I would not expect HAL to have to refund my airfare...that is what insurance is for....[/quote]

Thanks, but that's not what I asked. I asked if HAL would reimburse me for the cost of changing my ticket (most airlines charge a fee) not for the entire amount.

Often, people book their air well in advance of final payment - when they buy their insurance.

[tim agg]

This is a matter of making lemonade from lemons - it happened to us a few years back. HAL treated us well in making changes and our eventual itinerary turned into one of the best trips ever.

[Boatdrill]

[quote name='Liz Whiting']I booked a cruise with Holland America for August next year and then a couple of weeks ago we were notified...that the cruise was cancelled. I could not believe that the boat had been privately chartered and everyone that had booked were cancelled...
I am a very angry and disappointed Holland America customer. :mad:[/quote]

Here's an idea. Ask your travel agent to find out what group has the charter, and if it interests you, book a room on the cruise.
That way you can still go.

Charters are for like minded people, such as the
Jazz charter
Legendary Rythmn and Blues charter
Longaberger Basket sellers charter
Gay men charter
Gay women charter
Oprah Winfrey charter
Political party charter

[JamesEM]

Our AK 14 day July 2012, cruise onboard the Amsterdam was cancelled, we rebooked for June 29, but are NOT pleased even with the ship board credit.

[English_in_Spain]

[quote name='MadManOfBethesda']Why not? You have the right to cancel your cruise before final payment without penalty. Why shouldn't the cruiseline itself not have the same option?[/QUOTE]

[FONT="Georgia"][SIZE="4"]You may have the right to cancel. We, in Europe, do not have that right. If we cancel [U]at any time[/U] we lose our deposit.

We booked the airfare (which is non-changeable and non-refundable) 10 months before our cruise. The cost of the flights is £2700 ($4230). I would be most upset if HAL cancelled our cruise and did not refund our depost (£1200) and reimburse me for the flight.

[/SIZE][/FONT]

[Karennella]

[quote name='MadManOfBethesda']Why not? You have the right to cancel your cruise before final payment without penalty. Why shouldn't the cruiseline itself not have the same option?[/quote]
Also in Australia we cannot cancel without penalty.
Actually this thread has turned me off the idea of further cruises. I did not know cancelling happened fairly often and it could be a very expensive thing for me.

[catl331]

[quote name='Karennella']I did not know cancelling happened fairly often and it could be a very expensive thing for me.[/QUOTE][FONT="Comic Sans MS"][SIZE="3"]If you wait to book until you are within 90 days, or better yet after final payment day which is typically 75 days, you won't have to worry about cancellations for charters. But unforeseen mechanical problems could cause a cruise cancellation even then.
[/SIZE][/FONT]

[kyriecat]

Holland America is defintely not the only cruiseline that charters their ships. Royal Caribbean canceled two cruises that I had booked and their customer service was horrible!

I had booked a Caribbean cruise over a year in advance so I could pick the aft cabin that I wanted. About 10 months before sail date, RC called to say the ship was chartered and I needed to pick another sail date. They offered a couple dates as alternatives, but both were in March which is a very difficult month for my husband to take off work. They were offering $450 OBC to switch dates, but we had to rebook at the current rate. The current rate for the cabin type we wanted was over $1200 more than when we booked but no afts were available. That was not a good deal! I said no thanks and we switched to a Med cruise for that year and booked a Caribbean cruise for the following year.

The day before we were flying to Rome for our Med cruise, RC called to say our Caribbean cruise was canceled. However, the woman on the phone didn't seem to know what cruise she was calling about. She never identified the ship or sail date, just said she was calling to notify me that my cruise had been canceled. I had the Med cruise on my mind so I thought she was calling about that one. I even said we were flying to Rome in the morning and her response was, "I'd cancel those flights if I were you." I was ready to cry. It wasn't until I asked about compensation for changed plans and she responded that RC wasn't offering anything that it finally dawned on me that she might not be calling about the Med cruise. When I asked what ship and sail date, she said she would have to look that up. When she came back on and told me that it was the Carribean cruise not the Med one, I was so mad about the scare that I told her to cancel the Caribbean cruise. I wasn't interested in rebooking.

When I got back from the Med cruise, I booked a Caribbean cruise for the following year on Holland America. I used to sail almost exclusively with Royal Caribbean, but since the cruise cancellations, I've become more open to trying other lines.

[Viesczy]

What I am about to say is a condemnation of the practice & not a line...

Let's spin this another way & again I'm faulting the industry, not HAL, as it is rampant within the industry... rather than selling cruises, say they are doctors and transplanting organs/replacing joints.

You have a date of X to get the work done, another party says, "Hey Doc, I'll pay more for part/organ Y", and the Doc drops you like you're part of the excess population, what's your opinion then?

Before the apologist jump in and say "that's not the same thing because one is a vacation and the other is a medical procedure" keep in mind that medical procedures are because of availability $, no other reason. Both are selling a service, they'll take your $ for X--the cruise line's X is relief from the daily grind and the doc's X is relief from what is ailing you.

If any cruise line says Room X is worth Y and person Z agrees to that worth by entering into the contract, the line should stand on that contract UNLESS there are mechanical issues that make the boat not seaworthy. Honor what you've entered into, line and passenger. Honor.

Because something is rampant, doesn't mean it is right. All it means is that we're desensitized to it, that we accept it out of apathy.

Again, this is a condemnation of the practice, not a line.

Derek

[Boytjie]

[quote name='Viesczy']What I am about to say is a condemnation of the practice & not a line...

Let's spin this another way & again I'm faulting the industry, not HAL, as it is rampant within the industry... rather than selling cruises, say they are doctors and transplanting organs/replacing joints.

You have a date of X to get the work done, another party says, "Hey Doc, I'll pay more for part/organ Y", and the Doc drops you like you're part of the excess population, what's your opinion then?

Before the apologist jump in and say "that's not the same thing because one is a vacation and the other is a medical procedure" keep in mind that medical procedures are because of availability $, no other reason. Both are selling a service, they'll take your $ for X--the cruise line's X is relief from the daily grind and the doc's X is relief from what is ailing you.

If any cruise line says Room X is worth Y and person Z agrees to that worth by entering into the contract, the line should stand on that contract UNLESS there are mechanical issues that make the boat not seaworthy. Honor what you've entered into, line and passenger. Honor.

Because something is rampant, doesn't mean it is right. All it means is that we're desensitized to it, that we accept it out of apathy.

Again, this is a condemnation of the practice, not a line.

Derek[/quote]

Medical procedures aren't usually scheduled a year in advance. :rolleyes:

With your reasoning no cruiseline would realistically be able to do charters - unless they don't publish and book any cruises more than a year in advance. Charters are very profitable so they could either change booking schedules or increase fares for everyone. Take your pick. ;)