degarr Posted January 23, 2012 #4201 Share Posted January 23, 2012 The legal disaster engulfing the owners of the Costa Concordia liner appeared to be deepening last night following the company's admission that staff were aware of the captain's "character problems" ahead of the accident that claimed up to 32 lives....................................... Victims' groups and compensation lawyers are now looking at comments made by the Costa Cruises chief executive, Pier Luigi Foschi, to the Corriere Della Sera newspaper, in which he said: "He [schettino] may have the odd little character problem, although nothing has ever been reported formally. He was seen as being a little hard on his colleagues. He liked to be in the limelight." http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/owners-of-stricken-vessel-admit-captain-had-character-problem-6293221.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcrcruiser Posted January 23, 2012 #4202 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Wow that news article adds a touch more to this web of intrigue & traggedy:rolleyes:. we neither can side with the Capt nor the Costa cruise line . Too many " ifs "out there:rolleyes: . Let us pray that the Italian authorities move this saga swiftly into the court system .We need to find out who are responsible for the apparent deaths of 33 souls & the horror for nearly 4200 other people on this ill fated voyage;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Patches Posted January 23, 2012 #4203 Share Posted January 23, 2012 It's not us, it's the courts and the Italian news agencies reporting the alleged testimony of the courts. That's why we're questioning this. Bosio seems to be two different people in two different places on the ship with two different sets of responsibilities. I think you are getting caught up in semantics. Roberto Bosio is the captain of the Costa Serena and was off duty and getting a ride home on the Concordia the night of the accident. After impact he was called to duty. He was probably initially on the bridge and then when the ship capsized and the bridge was nonfunctional he was at the muster station helping passengers. There are multiple eyewitness accounts and news reports that he was on the ship to the end of the evacuation unlike most of the officers of the Concordia. The court magistrate referred to him as the second in command (as did Schettino in his testimony) because as an off duty captain called to duty he was the second highest ranking officer on the ship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozcruiser1 Posted January 23, 2012 #4204 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Hi Ozcruiser1, I'll share a table with you anytime. In response to your post, I would guess not many in the press corps know much about Robert Bosio, but we do find that stereotypes in press reports are not confined to one gender. I think a table shared with yourself, Milaandra, Davyjonesrugrat, judybee would make for wonderful evenings. I fear that if Uniall was to be assigned it might cause some conflict. But then again good discussions are often had with people with differing opinions.:):):) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davyjonesrugrat Posted January 23, 2012 #4205 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Wrong. We need a command room onshore tracking the ship that can call the ship and order the Captain to stop if he is on a dangerous course. And if he does not take the order then the next in command should take over and stop the ship. This is no different than air traffic control looking at the radar and telling an airline Captain to change course or a Railroad Dispatcher looking at his board and telling a Railroad Enginer or Conductor to stop the train. Also the second command should on his own overule the Captain if the captain puts the ship on a crash course. This is not tarring the Captain but saving him from a mistake. Humans make errors and we will never stop that but if we work as a team mistakes can be corrected. Who states what is a dangerous course ? Oh sorry its some despatcher shoreside who doesnt know his port and starboard but he thinks its dangerous. I sorry but do you have any navigational expertise besides cruising as a passenger? Have you ever commanded a ship, Do you know what a TSS is? There is no way I would let someone in a remote corner of Miami or Rome take command of a ship when they dont have the full facts... Imagine a small ship not seen by Radar, ship altering course to port/starboard to avoid, flunky ashore spots this change says 'Oh dangerous Im taking over and rams the ship down' How would you sleep then? Rgds :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leadft Posted January 23, 2012 #4206 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Who states what is a dangerous course ? Oh sorry its some despatcher shoreside who doesnt know his port and starboard but he thinks its dangerous. I sorry but do you have any navigational expertise besides cruising as a passenger? Have you ever commanded a ship, Do you know what a TSS is? There is no way I would let someone in a remote corner of Miami or Rome take command of a ship when they dont have the full facts... Imagine a small ship not seen by Radar, ship altering course to port/starboard to avoid, flunky ashore spots this change says 'Oh dangerous Im taking over and rams the ship down' How would you sleep then? Rgds :) Does TSS stand for TO SIDE SWIPE? Because that is what the captain did, and what could have most certainly been avoided if someone had been watching from a sea traffic control center. The minute that ship went out of the approved shipping lane, someone should have phoned captain coward to see what was going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles4515 Posted January 23, 2012 #4207 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Who states what is a dangerous course ? Oh sorry its some despatcher shoreside who doesnt know his port and starboard but he thinks its dangerous. I sorry but do you have any navigational expertise besides cruising as a passenger? Have you ever commanded a ship, Do you know what a TSS is? There is no way I would let someone in a remote corner of Miami or Rome take command of a ship when they dont have the full facts... Imagine a small ship not seen by Radar, ship altering course to port/starboard to avoid, flunky ashore spots this change says 'Oh dangerous Im taking over and rams the ship down' How would you sleep then? Rgds :) Sorry, the Concordia Captain was supposed to have navigational expertise and where did that get him? Of course they would have to hire people with the expertise to do the job as they do with air traffic controllers and train dispatchers. It is done with airplanes and trains. It can be done with ships. Time to shake up traditions and move into the 21st century. The technology exists to have a control center keeping track of ships and contacting them if they are on a dangerous course. And this will probably get some ship jockeys mad but technology exists to stop ships if necessary as it does with trains if there is no acknowledgement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davyjonesrugrat Posted January 23, 2012 #4208 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Does TSS stand for TO SIDE SWIPE? Because that is what the captain did, and what could have most certainly been avoided if someone had been watching from a sea traffic control center. The minute that ship went out of the approved shipping lane, someone should have phoned captain coward to see what was going on.TSS is a Traffic Separation Scheme....If you look at the English Channel, a very busy navigational point between the UK and France you will see how it works. There are so many differentials to take into place, local radar plots, local anomolies, without knowing the full facts it would be hard to get a clear picture of what is happening onboard and around the immediate loation of the ship. The AIS system covers the UK already, if shipping companies are made to monitor their own ships movements and see something classed as 'dangerous' they could react, failing to react could be audited when the ship is inspected by surveyors at various ports of call. Ships are inspected periodically to ensure they meet the stringent requirements to allow it to operate. The picture attached is one of a busy tss - channel. but it shows what can be expected, showing the ships position and various other important information rgds :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
degarr Posted January 23, 2012 #4209 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Costa Cruises has transferred passengers with forward bookings on the Costa Concordia to a replacement ship it describes as "brand new" – but it is actually 20-years old and in dry dock in Genoa for a refit. As prospective compensation claims against the firm by passengers who survived the shipwreck intensify, Costa Cruises has written to customers holding reservations for the stricken vessel. Anyone booked within the next two months is being offered a full refund, with a 30 per cent discount on a future cruise. From 24 March, Costa Concordia's place will be taken by "a completely new ship, Costa neoRomantica". In fact, the vessel was launched 20 years ago as the Costa Romantica. (more) http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/costa-offers-cruises-on-new-20yearold-ship-6293225.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davyjonesrugrat Posted January 23, 2012 #4210 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Hi Ozcruiser1, I'll share a table with you anytime. In response to your post, I would guess not many in the press corps know much about Robert Bosio, but we do find that stereotypes in press reports are not confined to one gender. I think a table shared with yourself, Milaandra, Davyjonesrugrat, judybee would make for wonderful evenings. I fear that if Uniall was to be assigned it might cause some conflict. But then again good discussions are often had with people with differing opinions.:):):) As long as people dont say my kilt is NOT a skirt then nothing fazes me lol...... rgds :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobsig Posted January 23, 2012 #4211 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Costa Cruises has transferred passengers with forward bookings on the Costa Concordia to a replacement ship it describes as "brand new" – but it is actually 20-years old and in dry dock in Genoa for a refit. Wow, Romantica has had its problems in the past! ...and only holds half the capacity of Concordia. Costa must not be planning on many more takers... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Costa_Romantica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davyjonesrugrat Posted January 23, 2012 #4212 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Sorry, the Concordia Captain was supposed to have navigational expertise and where did that get him? Of course they would have to hire people with the expertise to do the job as they do with air traffic controllers and train dispatchers. It is done with airplanes and trains. It can be done with ships. Time to shake up traditions and move into the 21st century. The technology exists to have a control center keeping track of ships and contacting them if they are on a dangerous course. And this will probably get some ship jockeys mad but technology exists to stop ships if necessary as it does with trains if there is no acknowledgement. 21st Century, have you every been on a ship at sea on the bridge, doing bridge watches, seeing the security systems they have, port state control, system monitoring showing every function of the ship from power to water integrity. Having 22 years in Ship safety matters, ship security, distress matters and all other things marine I feel that I have a sound base of knowledge. You are still proposing a 'another tier' safety system that would / could only cause command decison problems and thus possibly put further risk upon the fare paying passengers. Ooops time for my navigational/meteorlogical broadcasts to shipping .......... rgds :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reallyitsmema Posted January 23, 2012 #4213 Share Posted January 23, 2012 21st Century, have you every been on a ship at sea on the bridge, doing bridge watches, seeing the security systems they have, port state control, system monitoring showing every function of the ship from power to water integrity. Having 22 years in Ship safety matters, ship security, distress matters and all other things marine I feel that I have a sound base of knowledge. You are still proposing a 'another tier' safety system that would / could only cause command decison problems and thus possibly put further risk upon the fare paying passengers. Ooops time for my navigational/meteorlogical broadcasts to shipping .......... rgds :) While not Costa, these videos give you a really good idea of what a state of the art bridge looks like. Maybe these will help. http://www.allureoftheseas.com/video.php?ship=allure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
degarr Posted January 23, 2012 #4214 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Wow, Romantica has had its problems in the past! ...and only holds half the capacity of Concordia. Costa must not be planning on many more takers... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Costa_Romantica I was not aware of her past fire. Thanks for the link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beachin2 Posted January 23, 2012 #4215 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Sorry, the Concordia Captain was supposed to have navigational expertise and where did that get him? Of course they would have to hire people with the expertise to do the job as they do with air traffic controllers and train dispatchers. It is done with airplanes and trains. It can be done with ships. Time to shake up traditions and move into the 21st century. The technology exists to have a control center keeping track of ships and contacting them if they are on a dangerous course. And this will probably get some ship jockeys mad but technology exists to stop ships if necessary as it does with trains if there is no acknowledgement. Sorry to disagree with your analogy, old air controller here (with ratings for VFR tower, IFR tower, MOB tower. GCA, RAPCON and ARTCC - pretty much all holes punched in all the available FAA tickets). NO way this scheme works for ocean traffic. YMMV - just mt 2 pennies worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobsig Posted January 23, 2012 #4216 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Sorry, the Concordia Captain was supposed to have navigational expertise and where did that get him? Of course they would have to hire people with the expertise to do the job as they do with air traffic controllers and train dispatchers. It is done with airplanes and trains. It can be done with ships. Time to shake up traditions and move into the 21st century. The technology exists to have a control center keeping track of ships and contacting them if they are on a dangerous course. And this will probably get some ship jockeys mad but technology exists to stop ships if necessary as it does with trains if there is no acknowledgement. I'm sure Carnival Corp. would love to get rid of those expensive captains and use robots....all run by the Federal Ship Control Center in Oklahoma City using the same high technology used by the U.S. postal system and Fannie Mae. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles4515 Posted January 23, 2012 #4217 Share Posted January 23, 2012 21st Century, have you every been on a ship at sea on the bridge, doing bridge watches, seeing the security systems they have, port state control, system monitoring showing every function of the ship from power to water integrity. Having 22 years in Ship safety matters, ship security, distress matters and all other things marine I feel that I have a sound base of knowledge. You are still proposing a 'another tier' safety system that would / could only cause command decison problems and thus possibly put further risk upon the fare paying passengers. Ooops time for my navigational/meteorlogical broadcasts to shipping .......... rgds :) Often those with years of experience have difficulty adjusting to change. We need to go beyond ego contributing to disasters. Teamwork can balance individual human quirks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frediver Posted January 23, 2012 #4218 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Sorry, the Concordia Captain was supposed to have navigational expertise and where did that get him? Of course they would have to hire people with the expertise to do the job as they do with air traffic controllers and train dispatchers. It is done with airplanes and trains. It can be done with ships. Time to shake up traditions and move into the 21st century. The technology exists to have a control center keeping track of ships and contacting them if they are on a dangerous course. And this will probably get some ship jockeys mad but technology exists to stop ships if necessary as it does with trains if there is no acknowledgement. Hopefully it will get him in jail for a very long time. Perhaps it would be better to eliminate the bridge altogether and rely of the Home Office to steer the boat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare TLCOhio Posted January 23, 2012 #4219 Share Posted January 23, 2012 YES, sadly, the legal mess is growing for Carnival/Costa. Here are more details. My understanding is that a number of the staff were telling passengers that things were OK and to go back to their cabins. See the video of such happening as posted by the Guardian in London. From the Independent in London in the last three hours, they have this headline: "Owners of stricken vessel admit captain had 'character problem' " with these highlights: "The legal disaster engulfing the owners of the Costa Concordia liner appeared to be deepening last night following the company's admission that staff were aware of the captain's 'character problems' ahead of the accident that claimed up to 32 lives. Victims' groups and compensation lawyers are now looking at comments made by the Costa Cruises chief executive, Pier Luigi Foschi, to the Corriere Della Sera newspaper, in which he said: 'He [schettino] may have the odd little character problem, although nothing has ever been reported formally. He was seen as being a little hard on his colleagues. He liked to be in the limelight.' Mr Schettino's claim that Costa officials approved of close approaches has been backed by the ex-Costa commander Mario Palombo. Referring to a 2003 'drive-by' near to where the Costa Concordia is grounded, Mr Palomba said: 'We passed very close. Obviously we asked permission.' " Full stories at: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/video/2012/jan/20/costa-concordia-staff-return-to-cabin-video?newsfeed=true http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/owners-of-stricken-vessel-admit-captain-had-character-problem-6293221.html THANKS! Terry in Ohio Did a June 7-19, 2011, Solstice cruise from Barcelona that had stops in Villefranche, ports near Pisa and Rome, Naples, Kotor, Venice and Dubrovnik. Enjoyed great weather and a wonderful trip. Dozens of wonderful visuals with key highlights, tips, comments, etc., on these postings. We are now at 58,753 views for this live/blog re-cap on our first sailing with Celebrity and much on wonderful Barcelona. Check these postings and added info at: http://www.boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1426474 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frediver Posted January 23, 2012 #4220 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I'm wondering, is Costa trying to hang this all on the captain? IF so are they hoping they can avoid financial liability this way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davyjonesrugrat Posted January 23, 2012 #4221 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Often those with years of experience have difficulty adjusting to change. We need to go beyond ego contributing to disasters. Teamwork can balance individual human quirks. So are you going to advise us of where you get your experience then or do we have to guess ? How you can say or imply that Im stuck in a rutt is amazing? The United Kingdom Search and rescue system is one of the best worldwide, we are going through major changes and continue to do so. We have accepted all changes to the Search and Rescue system, implementing GMDSS, we fully implement all IMO and SOLAS regulations, LRIT, port state control, stringent ship control and inspection. For you to say im in a rutt begs question. i have served on various types of ships. I have already said that there is a system available that could be used to overcome the actions of Rogue captains/and or companies that could be used with very little legislation - I feel im forward looking and willing to accept change, but you appear to have greater knowledge of me that I do myself rgds :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare ghstudio Posted January 23, 2012 #4222 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I'm wondering, is Costa trying to hang this all on the captain?IF so are they hoping they can avoid financial liability this way? I believe they are hanging the captain as the only person responsible for this...in order to protect their other bookings and ongoing reservations. The approach seems to be hang the captain and deny any wrongdoing....and in some number of days, the press will move on to other things and then Costa's involvement will slip under the radar. This move is not intended to reduce liability (as I had originally thought) but to control image thru the press. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare ghstudio Posted January 23, 2012 #4223 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I'm wondering, is Costa trying to hang this all on the captain?IF so are they hoping they can avoid financial liability this way? I believe they are hanging the captain as the only person responsible for this...in order to protect their other bookings and ongoing reservations. The approach seems to be hang the captain and deny any wrongdoing....and in some number of days, the press will move on to other things and then Costa's involvement will slip under the radar. This move is not intended to reduce liability (as I had originally thought) but to control image thru the press. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frediver Posted January 23, 2012 #4224 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Ok that sounds plausible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles4515 Posted January 23, 2012 #4225 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Sorry to disagree with your analogy, old air controller here (with ratings for VFR tower, IFR tower, MOB tower. GCA, RAPCON and ARTCC - pretty much all holes punched in all the available FAA tickets). NO way this scheme works for ocean traffic. YMMV - just mt 2 pennies worth. What scheme? Were you born an air traffic controller? You were trained to do the job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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