Am I wrong?

[easy1969]

I have a issue with tipping in general. I want to start by clarifing that I do always tip very well.

The issue I have is that when we tip what we are really doing is paying salary to employees. the employees are under paid and the tips help to get the salary up a bit closer to what the employer should have to pay to begin with. The food and cruise industries are two that stand out in this regaurd.

 

I would much rather see the employers pay the employees a fair wage and pass this overhead cost along to the consumer in the price of the cruise, meal, drink, ect... Then we as consumers would be free to give tips for good service or any other reason we see fit.

 

I as always will continue to tip but I do so knowing that it is not really a tip ,,it is simply a suplement to the low wages paid to the service workers of these industries.

Think about it. Am I wrong?

[big_duck]

Regardless of method, customers always pay 100% of all company salaries.

[easy1969]

Regardless of method, customers always pay 100% of all company salaries.

 

True, But it would imo be great if the employers paid the wages and the employees would then recieve a fair wage plus tips for going above and beyond. as it is now the employees depend on the tips to suplement the lower wages paid by these type companies.

I know that this will not change. I am just wondering if others agree or disagree with the current costum.

[BubMunkeyBles]

There are cruiselines that don't expect you to tip... its definitely included in their price. :)

[TriciaEMTB]

True, But it would imo be great if the employers paid the wages and the employees would then recieve a fair wage plus tips for going above and beyond. as it is now the employees depend on the tips to suplement the lower wages paid by these type companies.

I know that this will not change. I am just wondering if others agree or disagree with the current costum.

 

They do. Many people tip on top of their auto tips. Honestly this whole auto gratuity is just semantics to keep the advertised price lower :)

 

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

[zqvol]

Here we go again.

[skylock]

I have a issue with tipping in general. I want to start by clarifing that I do always tip very well.

The issue I have is that when we tip what we are really doing is paying salary to employees. the employees are under paid and the tips help to get the salary up a bit closer to what the employer should have to pay to begin with. The food and cruise industries are two that stand out in this regaurd.

 

I would much rather see the employers pay the employees a fair wage and pass this overhead cost along to the consumer in the price of the cruise, meal, drink, ect... Then we as consumers would be free to give tips for good service or any other reason we see fit.

 

I as always will continue to tip but I do so knowing that it is not really a tip ,,it is simply a suplement to the low wages paid to the service workers of these industries.

Think about it. Am I wrong?

 

You are wrong because you are basing their wage on US standards. The tipped persons in question are not American and they do not live in America or pay taxes in America. They are paid a wage PLUS room and board and basic medical. The truth is, compared to your local wait staff that do live in America, they are coming out ok with only the basic wage compared to the basic wage in their country for unskilled labor. They are making a killing relatively speaking to what they would be making at home doing the same tpye of job.

 

Don't believe me, do a quick google search for min wages in a part of the world your servers came from. You will probably be quite shocked.

[Steve-N-Steph]

You are wrong because you are basing their wage on US standards. The tipped persons in question are not American and they do not live in America or pay taxes in America. They are paid a wage PLUS room and board and basic medical. The truth is, compared to your local wait staff that do live in America, they are coming out ok with only the basic wage compared to the basic wage in their country for unskilled labor. They are making a killing relatively speaking to what they would be making at home doing the same tpye of job.

 

Don't believe me, do a quick google search for min wages in a part of the world your servers came from. You will probably be quite shocked.

 

You may be right on a few points but the OP isn't wrong, do you know what waiters who are American and live in America and pay taxes make? Most make about $2 an hour, and rely on their tips to bring their wages up to minimum wage. This is the point he is trying to make that they should make a decent wage and be rewarded for good service. The way the are paid now there is no reward for good service it just brings their salaries up to minimum wage. Which also lets the companies off the hook for their share of those taxes, leaving the responsibility soley on the worker where it comes out of their tips. Also just because these workers aren't American do they not deserve to make good wages? That seems a little prejudiced to me. Just my opinion.

 

OP you are not wrong.

[easy1969]

You are wrong because you are basing their wage on US standards. The tipped persons in question are not American and they do not live in America or pay taxes in America. They are paid a wage PLUS room and board and basic medical. The truth is, compared to your local wait staff that do live in America, they are coming out ok with only the basic wage compared to the basic wage in their country for unskilled labor. They are making a killing relatively speaking to what they would be making at home doing the same tpye of job.

 

Don't believe me, do a quick google search for min wages in a part of the world your servers came from. You will probably be quite shocked.

 

 

I did not base the wages on any currency. I simply think that companies no matter where the workforce comes from should pay a fair wage. they then could pass the cost along to us in the cruise fare instead of auto charging it to c&sail acct. that would allow the consumer to actualy give tips.

 

As it is now all our tips do is help pay salary.

[imnance]

For anyone who is constantly agonizing over tips......There's a simple solution.

 

Don't patronize businesses that expect you to tip their employees.

 

I won't speak for the cruise lines, I'll only address the issue as it concerns the restaurant where I'm employed. If my owner paid me (and my co-workers) what I am capable of making as a good server, he'd have to raise his prices to the point where very few people would be able to afford to eat at his restaurant, then he'd be out of business.

[douglinc@msn.com]

For anyone who is constantly agonizing over tips......There's a simple solution.

 

Don't patronize businesses that expect you to tip their employees.

 

I won't speak for the cruise lines, I'll only address the issue as it concerns the restaurant where I'm employed. If my owner paid me (and my co-workers) what I am capable of making as a good server, he'd have to raise his prices to the point where very few people would be able to afford to eat at his restaurant, then he'd be out of business.

 

Exactly!

[Sargent_Schultz]

For anyone who is constantly agonizing over tips......There's a simple solution.

 

Don't patronize businesses that expect you to tip their employees.

 

I won't speak for the cruise lines, I'll only address the issue as it concerns the restaurant where I'm employed. If my owner paid me (and my co-workers) what I am capable of making as a good server, he'd have to raise his prices to the point where very few people would be able to afford to eat at his restaurant, then he'd be out of business.

 

and if he paid a mediocre or even bad server the same? what incentive would you have to do more?

[S.S.Oceanlover]

You are wrong because you are basing their wage on US standards. The tipped persons in question are not American and they do not live in America or pay taxes in America. They are paid a wage PLUS room and board and basic medical. The truth is, compared to your local wait staff that do live in America, they are coming out ok with only the basic wage compared to the basic wage in their country for unskilled labor. They are making a killing relatively speaking to what they would be making at home doing the same tpye of job.

 

Don't believe me, do a quick google search for min wages in a part of the world your servers came from. You will probably be quite shocked.

 

you forgot to add the other benefits the cruise ship workers get like not see their spouse, or get to see their kids grow up.

 

Oh yeah they only have to work 14-16 hours a day, 7 days a week.

 

Where do I sign up??

 

Bill

[GlendaleCruiser]

I have a issue with tipping in general. I want to start by clarifing that I do always tip very well.

The issue I have is that when we tip what we are really doing is paying salary to employees. the employees are under paid and the tips help to get the salary up a bit closer to what the employer should have to pay to begin with. The food and cruise industries are two that stand out in this regaurd.

 

I would much rather see the employers pay the employees a fair wage and pass this overhead cost along to the consumer in the price of the cruise, meal, drink, ect... Then we as consumers would be free to give tips for good service or any other reason we see fit.

 

I as always will continue to tip but I do so knowing that it is not really a tip ,,it is simply a suplement to the low wages paid to the service workers of these industries.

Think about it. Am I wrong?

 

Same thing happens in restaurants. Laws allow waiters to be paid well below minimum wage assuming that tips will make up the diff. So, do you see that in the same light?

[easy1969]

Same thing happens in restaurants. Laws allow waiters to be paid well below minimum wage assuming that tips will make up the diff. So, do you see that in the same light?

 

 

Yes it is the same imo.

[Cruisin' Chick]

I'm not an expert in accounting, but I seem to remember reading somewhere that part of the reason things are structured this way on the mass market lines is based on taxes. (and also the psychological way that seeing 1.99 seems cheaper than 2.00)

[topendmummy]

You should live in Australia! We only tip for outstanding service. It is certainly not expected by the employer or the employee!

[househunter]

You should live in Australia! We only tip for outstanding service. It is certainly not expected by the employer or the employee!

 

True but you pay the waiters salary anyway by the higher menu prices. Expensive meal and no tip is the same as a cheaper meal plus a tip.

[Hlitner]

You should live in Australia! We only tip for outstanding service. It is certainly not expected by the employer or the employee!

 

The last time we were in Sydney we had a delightful dinner the outdoor section of a decent restaurant near the opera house. After we had finished our main course we waited more then 30 min to order dessert and coffee, but we did not see our waiter. The same happened to the next table who had the same waiter. Finally, I went inside the restaurant and quietly asked to see the manager who quickly came over to talk. I told him that two tables outside had been waiting for service for more then a half hour but we did not see our waiter. The manager then explained that our waiter had gone home because his shift was over and he (the manager) had neglected to assign other staff to our tables. This is what Australia calls good service and we are sure our waiter was paid a fair wage. We had no way to protest since that same waiter did not expect any tip,,,nor did he care that he left us out there with no service (not his problem). Enough said.

 

Hank

[Julia Goolia]

you forgot to add the other benefits the cruise ship workers get like not see their spouse, or get to see their kids grow up.

 

Oh yeah they only have to work 14-16 hours a day, 7 days a week.

 

Where do I sign up??

 

Bill

 

Your local United States Army Recruiting Office. Oh, but you only get those special benefits, work hours, etc every other year when you are deployed. :p;):D

 

I'm truly just kidding but it was so funny that I read your post as I was just sitting here feeling sorry for myself. Day 85 in a row without a day off. Minimum of 14 hours a day but usually closer to 15-16. And I'm tired.

 

Thankfully, I get to go home in a little under 80 days and resume somewhat normal work hours, most weekends off, etc. But it sure has been a long year...again. And come a year from now, I'll be right back over here for a third time.

 

And to get back on topic...I can see both sides of the tipping argument. I too wish that everything was all included in the price for simplicity sake. But realistically, I know that it is simply a part of our culture and will not go away any time soon. I also think (but this is strictly my opinion) that those in the tipping pool probably end up better off being tipped than to have it included in their salary. With the exception of those who neglect to tip at all or tip fairly cheaply, my experience was that I did pretty good with tips - when I put forth the extra effort to serve someone quickly and efficiently. Hard work definitely paid off...with most customers.

[boogs]

Regardless of method, customers always pay 100% of all company salaries.

 

I guess one could consider the cruise fare a "mandatory gratuity" to the cruise line. :D

[BruceMuzz]

When J.P. Morgan - the wealthiest man in America at the time - purchased the White Star Line about 100 years ago, they had just started building the RMS Titanic.

He had a very interesting idea.

 

Rather than tie up operating capital in staff salaries, he wanted to make their earnings directly performance-based. He paid his service employees about 10 cents per day, and forced them to rely on passenger tips to make their jobs lucrative.

 

His idea was a sound one. He theorized that good service staff would make enough money in tips to convince them to stay. Poor performers would not earn very much in tips, and leave.

 

His idea has changed and developed significantly over the past 100 years. And not always for the better.

Most people agree that incentive based earnings tend to get the best performance out of employees. Being paid next to nothing, and having the bulk of your earnings based on the quality of your performance, tends to focus your efforts to produce a better product. The fact that most Cruise Lines today pay tipped employees only $1 per day plus tips has a lot to do with the realtively high service levels we are still able to get from a diminishing number of cruise line service staff.

 

By guaranteeing a good salary, and dangling a small tip on top of that for exemplary performance, employees rarely have enough incentive to reach those higher highs.

The current state of poor customer service in America is a perfect example of the challenges attached to that concept.

[sprint180]

As an ex waitress -

Employers would not be able to pay all the help needed to run a restaurant (whatever)and keep the price low. They can surely be made to do so but they would raise the price of the product. Then everyone would be complaining about that. Either way, your gonna pay.

[TriciaEMTB]

you forgot to add the other benefits the cruise ship workers get like not see their spouse, or get to see their kids grow up.

 

Oh yeah they only have to work 14-16 hours a day, 7 days a week.

 

Where do I sign up??

 

Bill

 

No one is forcing them to do this, they chose to do it. I know they work hard and it sucks they're away from their family but let's not martyr them.

 

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

[euro cruiser]

When I was a waitress and bartender, one of the big draws for me was the fact that tips were immediate, in cash, and untaxed. The same was true when I owned my own place - my staff was comprised largely of single moms who needed the cash each day to get by.

 

However, in the mid 1980's the IRS began requiring owners to report tips along with salary for each worker. That led to all kinds of problems for our employees. For some it was the inability to pay the tax bill when it came. For others, it meant reporting too much income to continue receiving the same amount of government aid.

 

It would make the various government agencies involved very happy if we moved away from a tipping culture to a full salaried one.