Muster Drill

[cruiselvr1]

It's not fear mongering at all. I've been trained as a volunteer firefighter and disaster responder. It's a FACT that even basic preparedness drills save lives AND need to be repeated every so often for maximum effectiveness. Even something as simple as knowing what your Muster leader looks like (and that changes every time) can help in maintaining order.

 

More importantly, its been repeatedly shown that exposure to emergency procedures reduces panic levels during an actual emergency. Ever notice that the second biggest problem next to the actual emergency issue (and sometimes worse than) is the response of other passengers (on the infamous Miracle of the Hudson flight, there was one lady who refused to leave the plane without her luggage and had to be dragged off screaming - endangering not only herself but others).

 

Not to mention its entirely possible that something minor may have changed since the last time you did a drill.

 

Now, you can make the case that multiple drills within the same 2 week period or so have limited effectiveness over the first other than the value of repetition, and I will call the reasonable, although I still think multiple musters better prepare the passengers and crew.

 

These drills aren't scheduled and made mandatory out of some sadistic sense. Like fire drills in schools, they do them because they WORK.

 

In my book, anyone who can't spare an hour or so to learn or refresh the basic emergency procedures should be disembarked as a potential hazard to passengers and crew.

On our last cruise, I asked my DW about just skipping the muster. I'm glad we didn't, there were things I had forgotten about. Then came the Concordia disaster, and we won't even consider missing any others.

[Cruisin' Chick]

It's not fear mongering at all. I've been trained as a volunteer firefighter and disaster responder. It's a FACT that even basic preparedness drills save lives AND need to be repeated every so often for maximum effectiveness. Even something as simple as knowing what your Muster leader looks like (and that changes every time) can help in maintaining order.

 

More importantly, its been repeatedly shown that exposure to emergency procedures reduces panic levels during an actual emergency. Ever notice that the second biggest problem next to the actual emergency issue (and sometimes worse than) is the response of other passengers (on the infamous Miracle of the Hudson flight, there was one lady who refused to leave the plane without her luggage and had to be dragged off screaming - endangering not only herself but others).

 

Not to mention its entirely possible that something minor may have changed since the last time you did a drill.

 

Now, you can make the case that multiple drills within the same 2 week period or so have limited effectiveness over the first other than the value of repetition, and I will call the reasonable, although I still think multiple musters better prepare the passengers and crew.

 

These drills aren't scheduled and made mandatory out of some sadistic sense. Like fire drills in schools, they do them because they WORK.

 

In my book, anyone who can't spare an hour or so to learn or refresh the basic emergency procedures should be disembarked as a potential hazard to passengers and crew.

 

Well said.

[1 HappyCruiser]

On our last cruise, I asked my DW about just skipping the muster. I'm glad we didn't, there were things I had forgotten about. Then came the Concordia disaster, and we won't even consider missing any others.

 

What if anything did you learn that was new?

[lois1112]

It's not fear mongering at all. I've been trained as a volunteer firefighter and disaster responder. It's a FACT that even basic preparedness drills save lives AND need to be repeated every so often for maximum effectiveness. Even something as simple as knowing what your Muster leader looks like (and that changes every time) can help in maintaining order.

 

More importantly, its been repeatedly shown that exposure to emergency procedures reduces panic levels during an actual emergency. Ever notice that the second biggest problem next to the actual emergency issue (and sometimes worse than) is the response of other passengers (on the infamous Miracle of the Hudson flight, there was one lady who refused to leave the plane without her luggage and had to be dragged off screaming - endangering not only herself but others).

 

Not to mention its entirely possible that something minor may have changed since the last time you did a drill.

 

Now, you can make the case that multiple drills within the same 2 week period or so have limited effectiveness over the first other than the value of repetition, and I will call the reasonable, although I still think multiple musters better prepare the passengers and crew.

 

These drills aren't scheduled and made mandatory out of some sadistic sense. Like fire drills in schools, they do them because they WORK.

 

In my book, anyone who can't spare an hour or so to learn or refresh the basic emergency procedures should be disembarked as a potential hazard to passengers and crew.

 

I'm an retired emergency room nurse and I agree with this 100% the more you practice the better you will be in a real emergency...come on people it takes 1/2 hour of your vacation!

[1 HappyCruiser]

I'm an retired emergency room nurse and I agree with this 100% the more you practice the better you will be in a real emergency...come on people it takes 1/2 hour of your vacation!

 

What is there to practice? Finding your way to the muster station? How to put on your life jacket? Maybe I'm missing something in the instructions but I've heard it many times once the years & nothing has changed.

[Loonbeam]

It's all about mental muscle memory. Retracing those steps, even for the 30th time helps imprint them in your memory for when their is a problem.

 

Also, think about it from a logistical standpoint. Should the crew take your word you know the way? How many cruises is enough for an excuse? In how long a time?

 

Even if you have done the same thing 100 times (I can quote the US Air safety briefing along with them) doing it recently helps your recall if needed. Period.

 

What is there to practice? Finding your way to the muster station? How to put on your life jacket? Maybe I'm missing something in the instructions but I've heard it many times once the years & nothing has changed.

[rkmw]

we were doing a b2b on a recent cruise and we had a letter to say we didnt have to do the 2nd muster, we were on the main deck and we were told by the bar supervisor that we had to attend the muster but once we showed him the letter everything was ok......there was 3 chinese passengers on the main deck also so we asked him why they are not doing the muster and they were not doing a b2b....their answer was that they didnt feel like going and nothing was done about them

[Loonbeam]

The first (as I noted) is understandable - you could convince me that 2 in a week might not make a significant difference. The other is, and should be unexcuseable.

 

we were doing a b2b on a recent cruise and we had a letter to say we didnt have to do the 2nd muster, we were on the main deck and we were told by the bar supervisor that we had to attend the muster but once we showed him the letter everything was ok......there was 3 chinese passengers on the main deck also so we asked him why they are not doing the muster and they were not doing a b2b....their answer was that they didnt feel like going and nothing was done about them

[1 HappyCruiser]

It's all about mental muscle memory. Retracing those steps, even for the 30th time helps imprint them in your memory for when their is a problem.

 

Also, think about it from a logistical standpoint. Should the crew take your word you know the way? How many cruises is enough for an excuse? In how long a time?

 

Even if you have done the same thing 100 times (I can quote the US Air safety briefing along with them) doing it recently helps your recall if needed. Period.

 

I can appreciate the fact of multiple training sessions when there's actually something that has to be learned & remembered but when it comes to simply knowing your way to a specific location, how to put you life jacket on, knowing what the signal is & what procedures are during an emergency it becomes overly repetitious. Only a person that's done it over & over dozens of times can judge for themselves if they're comfortable skipping muster.

[capriccio]

Recently on the Island after the muster drill there were signs on each cabin door's handle that said "Cleared". This was something new for me & they also had them on the doors when they had a 'crew only' drill during a day in port. So things may be changing & they're beginning to enter cabins to ensure that cabins are empty. On the Sapphire & Island after the Concordia they scanned cards as we entered & walked around asking if anyone had not had it done.

 

On the Sapphire last month I noticed those signs on some (but not all) cabin doors and was wondering if they were B2B passenger cabins or if they just randomly choose them -- and they scanned everyone's cards in Club Fusion.

[Loonbeam]

Your statement is contradictory. Isn't how to get someplace and how to put on a life jacket, etc something that has to be learned and remembered.

 

But more practically, from a logistical standpoint it is simply more efficient to require everyone to attend rather than trust people to accurately represent their own capabilities. Should the crew take your word on how many cruises you have in the past 5 years on that ship or do they have to check each person against a list?

 

Even if you think you are one hundred percent comfortable with your experience level, the muster drill is 30 minutes if everyone participates and doesn't try to push it off. The only reason that someone cannot spare 30 minutes for the safety briefing is if they feel they cannot be bothered and/or the rules don't apply to them.

 

On an average ship there are between 2000-3500 people who have to take responsibility for themselves in an emergency. I don't want to be the one to get in a bind because someone couldn't stay away from a bar (and all bars/pools/venues should be closed during muster, letter or not) that long and I don't think the crew should have to play enforcer based on someones self-perception.

 

 

 

I can appreciate the fact of multiple training sessions when there's actually something that has to be learned & remembered but when it comes to simply knowing your way to a specific location, how to put you life jacket on, knowing what the signal is & what procedures are during an emergency it becomes overly repetitious. Only a person that's done it over & over dozens of times can judge for themselves if they're comfortable skipping muster.

[1 HappyCruiser]

Your statement is contradictory. Isn't how to get someplace and how to put on a life jacket, etc something that has to be learned and remembered.

 

But more practically, from a logistical standpoint it is simply more efficient to require everyone to attend rather than trust people to accurately represent their own capabilities. Should the crew take your word on how many cruises you have in the past 5 years on that ship or do they have to check each person against a list?

 

Even if you think you are one hundred percent comfortable with your experience level, the muster drill is 30 minutes if everyone participates and doesn't try to push it off. The only reason that someone cannot spare 30 minutes for the safety briefing is if they feel they cannot be bothered and/or the rules don't apply to them.

 

On an average ship there are between 2000-3500 people who have to take responsibility for themselves in an emergency. I don't want to be the one to get in a bind because someone couldn't stay away from a bar (and all bars/pools/venues should be closed during muster, letter or not) that long and I don't think the crew should have to play enforcer based on someones self-perception.

 

Of course the crew can't take my word for it or check a list but that's my decision on how well trained I feel I am & doesn't affect anyone else but myself. How you feel that my skipping muster once in a while affects your safety is beyond me but you seem to think so. What did you learn new at your last muster? I'd almost bet you could repeat the drill word for word. :D

Until there a 100% check of all the participants I'll be considering myself doing B2B's all the time. ;)

[waltd]

We get it. It's all about you. What a surprise.....

[Loonbeam]

I'll assume you feel that the smoking rules are equally optional unless you are being watched? Or the dress code? Or the liquor policy? Kids in the adult pool? Because you don't get to choose to follow only the policies you agree with.

 

And by your rules, if someone feels that one muster drill attended 14 years ago is enough training they can consider themselves on a B2B as well. After all, seen it once, seen it enough. If its up to one passenger's discretion its up to all of them. Or maybe they've never been to one, after all, how hard can it be to find a bar and put on a life jacket.

 

Another point you may be missing is that according to Princess' rules , the muster drill is NOT optional unless you are on a B2B and are excused. Whether they check attendance or not is irrelevant.

 

So I have to agree with the prior poster, apparently you don't feel the same rules apply to you as everyone else.

 

Of course the crew can't take my word for it or check a list but that's my decision on how well trained I feel I am & doesn't affect anyone else but myself. How you feel that my skipping muster once in a while affects your safety is beyond me but you seem to think so. What did you learn new at your last muster? I'd almost bet you could repeat the drill word for word. :D

Until there a 100% check of all the participants I'll be considering myself doing B2B's all the time. ;)

[caribill]

What did you learn new at your last muster?

 

If there was something new and important you would not learn of it. And that could make a difference in survival if there was a real emergency.

 

Also, see

http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=4837

[Loonbeam]

BTW, just in case someone was going to say it was not a requirement:

 

From the day 1 patter..

 

 

GENERAL EMERGENCY STATIONS

Within 24 hours of boarding the ship, ALL PASSENGERS will be exercised at their General Emergency Stations.

„ ....4) This exercise is a requirement of law, and you must. attend. At the start of the exercise, alarms will sound

and broadcasts will be made, calling you to your Muster Stations as indicated on the notice on the back of your stateroom door. Please carry your life jacket with you. Do not wear it, and for safety's sake, do not allow the ties to trail on the deck. The correct method of wearing a life jacket will be demonstrated at the end of muster. Please ensure that all cell phones are switched off before entering the Muster Stations.

 

 

This makes it a Princess policy as well as law and therefore is covered under section 12 of the cruise contract also.

[caribill]

From the day 1 patter..

 

 

GENERAL EMERGENCY STATIONS

Within 24 hours of boarding the ship, ALL PASSENGERS will be exercised at their General Emergency Stations.

„ ....4) This exercise is a requirement of law, and you must attend.

 

 

This makes it a Princess policy as well as law and therefore is covered under section 12 of the cruise contract also.

 

Actually, it only says the exercise is a requirement of law which means Princess must hold it. The "you must attend" part is the Princess policy.

 

However, since Princess issues letters to B2B passengers that say they do not have to attend, obviously all passengers do not have to.

[1 HappyCruiser]

I'll assume you feel that the smoking rules are equally optional unless you are being watched? Or the dress code? Or the liquor policy? Kids in the adult pool? Because you don't get to choose to follow only the policies you agree with.

 

I select which policies I follow and if it affects no one but my self.

 

And by your rules, if someone feels that one muster drill attended 14 years ago is enough training they can consider themselves on a B2B as well. After all, seen it once, seen it enough. If its up to one passenger's discretion its up to all of them. Or maybe they've never been to one, after all, how hard can it be to find a bar and put on a life jacket.

 

I don't drink that much that I need a bar as soon as I get on the ship but

I can hear the muster announcements in all parts of the ship... by the pools & in my cabin so if there are any slight changes I'm sure to know about them. (which there haven't been for many years)

 

Another point you may be missing is that according to Princess' rules , the muster drill is NOT optional unless you are on a B2B and are excused. Whether they check attendance or not is irrelevant.

 

Since I take enough cruises during the year most cruises are almost B2B.

So I have to agree with the prior poster, apparently you don't feel the same rules apply to you as everyone else.

 

Lots of people pick & choose which ones they like to follow.

Lets face it, I do agree that knowing what to do in an emergency is important & everyone should know the procedure and I wouldn't think of skipping out on a new ship or cruise line.

 

If there was something new and important you would not learn of it. And that could make a difference in survival if there was a real emergency.

 

Also, see

http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=4837

 

I'll can hear it in all parts of the ship. Also- there not one thing about the current procedures that if I didn't follow that would affect your safety.

[Brighton Line]

I love NYC when more than one ship is in the Manhattan port. They leave at different times. Usually NCL leaves at 4p so then Carnival at 5p and if there's a third, oh boy. So for about 90 minutes at different times you hear the ship horns going off with the call away to muster.

 

Heck durning the drill they stop selling drinks so you might as well just go to the drill, faster you do it the faster they will open back up the bar!!

[bralli]

And I tune out when they show me how to use a seatbelt when I go on a flight too. GASP!

[Loonbeam]

Hence my point about section 12 of the contract which is the part where you agree to follow all Princess policies, orders of the captain, etc.

 

 

Actually, it only says the exercise is a requirement of law which means Princess must hold it. The "you must attend" part is the Princess policy.

 

However, since Princess issues letters to B2B passengers that say they do not have to attend, obviously all passengers do not have to.

[Loonbeam]

I'm so glad you feel you know better than everyone else. Do you do the same for laws you don't like as well, as long as you think they only affect you?

 

If you panic in an emergency that can very easily affect MY ability to get to or on a lifeboat or a muster station. If you go to the wrong station because thats the one you had last time you were on that ship, that's one less seat for someone else who is supposed to be there.

 

But I am sure what I am saying doesn't matter to you. You've decided that anything that doesn't obviously affect other people doesn't apply to you and you are above petty rules and regulations. Which means, by the way, you give up any rights now and forever more to complain about others who break Princess policies, after all, they may not think they are affecting anyone else either.

 

 

 

 

"I select which policies I follow and if it affects no one but my self. "

 

Lots of people pick & choose which ones they like to follow.

Lets face it, I do agree that knowing what to do in an emergency is important & everyone should know the procedure and I wouldn't think of skipping out on a new ship or cruise line.

 

 

 

I'll can hear it in all parts of the ship. Also- there not one thing about the current procedures that if I didn't follow that would affect your safety.

[sherryf]

I select which policies I follow and if it affects no one but my self.

 

This isn't necessarily true. For example, if you violate the smoking policy, you affect those around you. If you violate the "no kids in the adult pool" policy, then you affect any adult who wants to use that pool.

 

I'm not saying that you DO violate these policies, just pointing out that there are some policies that can affect other people if you choose to ignore them.

 

The crew does an emergency drill every week. They don't get to skip it just because they've done it 100 times.

[1 HappyCruiser]

I'm so glad you feel you know better than everyone else. Do you do the same for laws you don't like as well, as long as you think they only affect you?

 

If you panic in an emergency that can very easily affect MY ability to get to or on a lifeboat or a muster station. If you go to the wrong station because thats the one you had last time you were on that ship, that's one less seat for someone else who is supposed to be there.

 

In case you haven't noticed the muster station is posted on the cabin door in BIG block letters. Even most people who don't have their glasses on can read it.

 

But I am sure what I am saying doesn't matter to you. You've decided that anything that doesn't obviously affect other people doesn't apply to you and you are above petty rules and regulations. Which means, by the way, you give up any rights now and forever more to complain about others who break Princess policies, after all, they may not think they are affecting anyone else either.

 

I don't recall complaining about anyone ignoring any of the rules (ie- chair hogs, seat savers in the show lounge, dress codes, line jumpers, bringing on liquor, etc.) as some posters do on this board (except for smokers & that problem is over with as far as I'm concerned).

I just ignore them & go on with my life since there's not much you can do to change the situation.

I select which policies I follow and if it affects no one but my self.

 

This isn't necessarily true. For example, if you violate the smoking policy, you affect those around you. If you violate the "no kids in the adult pool" policy, then you affect any adult who wants to use that pool.

 

I'm not saying that you DO violate these policies, just pointing out that there are some policies that can affect other people if you choose to ignore them.

 

The crew does an emergency drill every week. They don't get to skip it just because they've done it 100 times.

 

Oh, I do agree that those items you listed do affect all of those around the ship and can make a big difference if not adhered to.

[capriccio]

If you panic in an emergency that can very easily affect MY ability to get to or on a lifeboat or a muster station. If you go to the wrong station because thats the one you had last time you were on that ship, that's one less seat for someone else who is supposed to be there.

 

 

And that's the gist of the argument. Having been in some emergency situations in my life, I can predict (but not with 100% certainty) that I would react relatively calmly. Having seen how other folks -- people that I consider level headed - reacted in those situations has lead me to assume the worst about my fellow passengers' reactions. At least if they've attended muster (or listened to the airplane spiel) one can hope that they recall the instructions and react appropriately. If they didn't attend muster they are a threat to my safety.

 

Finally - what's 1/2 hour in the great scheme of things? Everyone is in a good mood and I think of it as a right of passage (pun intended). :D