New smoking policy

[DocJames]

Silversea just announced a new smoking policy effective at the beginning of 2013: Smoking is not allowed in most areas of Silversea ships, including:

Guest suites and guest suite verandas

The Bar (main bar)

Pool Bar (except at specifically designated tables)

 

When will Seabourn follow suit?

[kathy16]

I wish SB would start really restricting smoking JULY 2012!

[Emperor Norton]

Silversea just announced a new smoking policy effective at the beginning of 2013: Smoking is not allowed in most areas of Silversea ships, including:

Guest suites and guest suite verandas

The Bar (main bar)

Pool Bar (except at specifically designated tables)

 

When will Seabourn follow suit?

 

It depends. If they see an influx of new passengers fleeing Silversea for Seabourns more permissive policy they may not.

[markham]

As a dedicated and loyal Seabourn passenger with more than 250 sailing days I would like to see Seabourn LEAD and not follow- in all areas.

 

The idea that Seabourn might sit back, expect or hope to benefit from Silverseas' smoking restrictions, and continue to allow smoking in confined

passenger areas is anathema. Just like the smoke in the otherwise beautiful Observation Bar in the Odyssey, Sojourn and Quest.

 

So Seabourn: Get with the program! Our health depends on your choices.

 

Happy sailing!

[lincslady]

I suspect I am in a minority of one (or two if you include my husband, who agrees) in saying that the only advantage the Observation Bar in the bigger ships has is the view - we prefer the Club for comfort and space for a pre-dinner drink, and funnily enough have so far found the barmen there to be more adept at preparing cocktails. So we fervently hope they will not re-introduce smoking in part of the Club. The Observation Lounges on the small ships are a different matter; attractive rooms in themselves apart from the views.

[markham]

Lincslady,

 

Even the wildest cynic would not dare reintroduce smoking in the Club. After all,

it is the bar of choice for those of us who hate breathing other peoples' cigarette smoke. Nor can I imagine any Seabourn employee extending the current hours that smokers are allowed to foul the air in the panoramic Observation Bars. That would be retrograde; the 50s, when some chose to fool themselves that smoking was somehow healthy, is a long time ago.

 

I hope that where Silversea and other lines are heading is ultimately where Seabourn follows. For a start that would be banning smoking in the Observation Bars so the health-conscious can enjoy it.

 

Happy cruising!

[Seabourntraveller]

Lincslady,

 

Even the wildest cynic would not dare reintroduce smoking in the Club. After all,

it is the bar of choice for those of us who hate breathing other peoples' cigarette smoke. Nor can I imagine any Seabourn employee extending the current hours that smokers are allowed to foul the air in the panoramic Observation Bars. That would be retrograde; the 50s, when some chose to fool themselves that smoking was somehow healthy, is a long time ago.

 

I hope that where Silversea and other lines are heading is ultimately where Seabourn follows. For a start that would be banning smoking in the Observation Bars so the health-conscious can enjoy it.

 

Happy cruising!

 

Seabourn seems to have there heads in the sand when it comes to a sensible smoking policy.

[sail7seas]

Given the close connection between HAL and Seabourn, possibly they may be adopting HAL's smoking policy? HAL does not permit smoking in cabins but it is permitted on verandas.

 

[Seabourntraveller]

Given the close connection between HAL and Seabourn, possibly they may be adopting HAL's smoking policy? HAL does not permit smoking in cabins but it is permitted on verandas.

 

 

That's a stupid policy...you can smoke on the balcony....didn't they hear of the Star Princess fire on the balcony?:rolleyes::eek::rolleyes:

[Emperor Norton]

That's a stupid policy...you can smoke on the balcony....didn't they hear of the Star Princess fire on the balcony?:rolleyes::eek::rolleyes:

 

A little smoking never hurt anything:rolleyes:

[nowornever]

you totally nailed it! I've always watched people with a little too much spirits, those who I know are smokers, wander back to their cabins & think oh no (well maybe I think a slightly different word), what if they light a cigarette & doze off? Scares me speechless (ok substitute another word.)

 

I know nothing, nothing about the science of risk management, but common sense would tell us that the cruise line's insurance companies & their risk managers would have a huge say in this matter. Guess they're willing to pay huh or they wouldn't allow it!

 

Again, Baychilla...thank you for posting the photo ...a very powerful reminder.

[conchyjoe]

A little smoking never hurt anything:rolleyes:

Looks like pretty poor firefighting skills to me. Nobody should be throwing anything overboard but the inability to contain the fire to a few cabins seems a little strange. But what do I know .. I'm just a Fire Chief with a former life as a Deck Officer on a passenger vessel.

 

From a rational point of view, looking at history, Captains and weather have caused more serious problems than passengers do, no matter what their indulgences.

[Emperor Norton]

Looks like pretty poor firefighting skills to me. Nobody should be throwing anything overboard but the inability to contain the fire to a few cabins seems a little strange. But what do I know .. I'm just a Fire Chief with a former life as a Deck Officer on a passenger vessel.

 

From a rational point of view, looking at history, Captains and weather have caused more serious problems than passengers do, no matter what their indulgences.

 

It was a classic cascade of failure. (from wiki)

...The fire was probably caused by a cigarette left burning on a balcony, which had become hot enough to melt the balcony divides made from plastic polycarbonate, a material that had been approved by international cruise line safety rules. The fire caused scorching damage in up to 150 cabins, and smoke damage in at least 100 more on passenger decks 9 to 12 (Dolphin, Caribe, Baja and Aloha decks). A passenger, Richard Liffidge, 72, of Georgia, died from "asphyxia secondary to inhalation of smoke and irrespirable gases" and thirteen other passengers suffered significant smoke inhalation.

While a smouldering discarded cigarette probably did cause the flames, the following items were also at fault for allowing the fire to spread as quickly as it did:

The balconies' polycarbonate partitions, polyurethane deck tiles, and the plastic furniture were highly combustible and produced large quantities of very thick black smoke when burned.

The glass in the doors between the staterooms and balconies was neither fire retardant, to meet with the requirements of an ‘A’ class division, nor self-closing.

The balconies crossed main zone fire boundaries, both horizontally and vertically, and were without structural or thermal barriers at the zone or deck boundaries.

No fire detection or fire suppression systems were fitted on the balconies.

 

...With 79 cabins destroyed and a further 204 damaged, the ship was moved to the Bahamas where she was prepared for a transatlantic crossing to Bremerhaven, Germany for repairs...

 

Or if you're feeling bored and want a better version this is more detailed. (this pdf also has more pictures, including interior damage).

[conchyjoe]

It was a classic cascade of failure. (from wiki)

...The fire was probably caused by a cigarette left burning on a balcony, which had become hot enough to melt the balcony divides made from plastic polycarbonate, a material that had been approved by international cruise line safety rules. The fire caused scorching damage in up to 150 cabins, and smoke damage in at least 100 more on passenger decks 9 to 12 (Dolphin, Caribe, Baja and Aloha decks). A passenger, Richard Liffidge, 72, of Georgia, died from "asphyxia secondary to inhalation of smoke and irrespirable gases" and thirteen other passengers suffered significant smoke inhalation.

While a smouldering discarded cigarette probably did cause the flames, the following items were also at fault for allowing the fire to spread as quickly as it did:

The balconies' polycarbonate partitions, polyurethane deck tiles, and the plastic furniture were highly combustible and produced large quantities of very thick black smoke when burned.

The glass in the doors between the staterooms and balconies was neither fire retardant, to meet with the requirements of an ‘A’ class division, nor self-closing.

The balconies crossed main zone fire boundaries, both horizontally and vertically, and were without structural or thermal barriers at the zone or deck boundaries.

No fire detection or fire suppression systems were fitted on the balconies.

 

...With 79 cabins destroyed and a further 204 damaged, the ship was moved to the Bahamas where she was prepared for a transatlantic crossing to Bremerhaven, Germany for repairs...

 

Or if you're feeling bored and want a better version this is more detailed. (this pdf also has more pictures, including interior damage).

 

Yes, I read the accident report several years ago and examined the ship after the accident in Freeport, Bahamas. Sorry you are correct, I should have added Naval Architects to the list.

 

 

[mariner]

This much I know is true: A ship isn't a hotel. There is nowhere to go smoke. Smokers will smoke. The more restirctions, the more danger. I believe the Princess bunch had laundry on the balcony.

[markham]

Mariner,

 

With all due respect, and if you think that smokers are simply unable to restrict their smoking to designated areas, your point is nonsense. Isn't that how airports are run these days?

 

Smokers can appreciate the harm they cause others and they can also choose to smoke in designated areas. On that basis they need not sneak around and smoke on balconies or other areas where many cruise lines ban the practice. An area with sprinklers and flame retardant materials downwind and out of the way of everyone makes sense to me.

 

I don't know about the hotel analogy but I do know that ships are confined spaces, that inhaling other peoples' smoke onboard is unhealthy, and that

smoking might as well be restricted to improve the cruise experience for nonsmokers. Then there is the fire issue as these photos show.

 

So Seabourn, wake up and deal with the issue. You might as well headline the program with banning smoking at any time in the Observation Bar!

 

Happy sailing!

[softsands]

As a dedicated and loyal Seabourn passenger with more than 250 sailing days I would like to see Seabourn LEAD and not follow- in all areas.

 

The idea that Seabourn might sit back, expect or hope to benefit from Silverseas' smoking restrictions, and continue to allow smoking in confined

passenger areas is anathema. Just like the smoke in the otherwise beautiful Observation Bar in the Odyssey, Sojourn and Quest.

 

So Seabourn: Get with the program! Our health depends on your choices.

 

Happy sailing!

 

Yes, yes, and....yes.

[wripro]

Markham,

 

While I completely agree with all your comments re: SB's smoking policy and fervently wish they would alter it to disallow smoking in most of the venues on its vessels, I have to take a slight issue with your final comment. I do not believe my health depends on SB's choices. It depends on my own choices. If I felt that strongly that the smoke was endangering my health I would choose not to sail with them.

[markham]

Wripro,

 

Here is the scenario:

 

The last time I was on Quest, I was driven out of the Observation Bar by smoke. On more than one occasion. Pre-dinner. And the more I think about it, the more cross I get. Why should I have to fly under the radar that Seabourn administers?

It's my health, and yes, I know, it's my choice to stay or leave. But Seabourn is, in effect, making the choice for me. My standards are high. Why isn't theirs?!

 

So, and as I said, Seabourn should be concerned with the health of ALL passengers and crew. Cut out the smoking in the Observation Bar. It's a no-brainer.

 

Further, I love sailing on Seabourn and I have 46 days booked on Odyssey starting in February, 2013. I'll then have over 300 days. And if the choice is the jump ship or lobby for this health issue I will do what I have been doing for these past 13 years- sailing onnSeabourn and making my point. For goodness sake, I just hope that by 2013 the Observation Bar is smoke free so I can enjoy its hospitality. Is that too much to ask? Seabourn: Give me- and all other nonsmokers- a break!

[wripro]

Markham,

 

Like you, the Observation Lounge is one of my favorite venues on the ships. Personally, I do not like the Club on the large ships (whereas I love it on the triplets) so I prefer to have my pre dinner drinks in the Observation Lounge. Usually, I rush to get up there not much past 6PM so I can get the booth furthest away from the smoking area. If I couldn't do that I'd flee as well and I can sympathize with your feelings. But I also realize that Seabourn is a business and its main concern its not its passengers' health but the health of its bottom line. Therefore eliminating smoking is probably not in the cards, at least for now. But who knows? When I first started sailing SB smoking was allowed in the restaurant. Maybe good sense will continue to change the policies.

[mariners]

I am probably in the minority, but I worry more about people smoking outdoors in non-sheltered areas and having lit ashes blow off and land on something flammable. I also worry about people smoking, especially after a night of partying, and not putting out their cigarettes/cigars properly in ashtrays. Every year, we have houses burn down in our city from those very things. A well vented smoking venue makes sense to me as I don't think that an all out smoking ban is likely to occur in the near future.

I will also admit that I am likely to go in that venue even though I don't smoke as some of my best times onboard ships have been with the "smokers".

[kiawahdon]

A well vented smoking venue makes sense to me as I don't think that an all out smoking ban is likely to occur in the near future.

".

 

I submit the Observation lounges are anything but "well vented". Many nights the air quality index would be listed as hazardous to your health by any measure.

[gillianrose]

Lincslady,

 

Even the wildest cynic would not dare reintroduce smoking in the Club. After all,

it is the bar of choice for those of us who hate breathing other peoples' cigarette smoke. Nor can I imagine any Seabourn employee extending the current hours that smokers are allowed to foul the air in the panoramic Observation Bars. That would be retrograde; the 50s, when some chose to fool themselves that smoking was somehow healthy, is a long time ago.

 

I hope that where Silversea and other lines are heading is ultimately where Seabourn follows. For a start that would be banning smoking in the Observation Bars so the health-conscious can enjoy it.

 

Happy cruising!

 

Even the health-unconscious can enjoy non-smoking rooms. They just can't smoke.

 

I have wanted to take a Seabourn (and Silversea) cruise for years, but we won't until they are significantly less smoky. SIGNIFICANTLY.

[gillianrose]

double post.

[markham]

Wripro,

 

You nailed it on the head, after a fashion, with the following from your last post on this subject:

 

"Seabourn is a business and its main concern its not its passengers' health but the health of its bottom line."

 

How would the marketing people there react if I suggested that this sentence were worked into one of their sale brochures and web site?

 

How 'bout a 360 degree scan of the Observation Bar. The sun is setting over the Adriatic through one of the Observation Bar's starboard side windows full of smoke, while the non-smokers are huddled by the door to deck 10 for some untainted air or over by the "non smoking" port side? The crew in black tie are stuck at the central serving station turning green while the pianist at her starboard side piano is wearing a breathing device.

 

No, I don't think the photo would enhance Seabourn's sales. Let's be honest and smart. Silversea, as another poster has noted, is adopting a smart policy on smoking that makes sense and this is Seabourn's prime competitor. So have other Carnival brands. If Seabourn means to reflect the values of the health conscious, well, they might as well get with the program. They might even see their bottom line improve with bookings from the demographic that cares about health as much as I do.

 

Happy cruising!