Required vs Recommended

[Bridge Maven]

With all the debates about whether the dress code for formal nights are required or recommended, I found this wording from another cruise line to be interesting:

 

"These requirements are not mandatory; however, in order to re-create a classic and memorable dining experience for you and all our Guests, we recommend the attire schedule that is planned for your cruise."

[cruisestitch]

And see this from Cunard:

 

Does the dress code apply to all areas of the ship?

 

The dress code applies to all areas of the ship after 6.00pm each evening.

Should you wish to dress more casually in the evening, then you will be able to dine in the Kings Court (Queen Mary 2) and Lido Restaurants (Queen Victoria & Queen Elizabeth) though you should be aware that nearly all guests adhere to the evening's dress code and this helps to set the ambience for the evening.

[Oville]

With all the debates about whether the dress code for formal nights are required or recommended, I found this wording from another cruise line to be interesting:

 

"These requirements are not mandatory; however, in order to re-create a classic and memorable dining experience for you and all our Guests, we recommend the attire schedule that is planned for your cruise."

 

And these apply to Celebrity how? I'm not a big fan of Celebrity's dress recommendations for formal night but we do follow them and eat elsewhere if we don't bring appropriate formal clothes on board.

[jackdiamond]

It is simply a matter of proper manners and good taste. Those who possess the aforesaid follow the dress code, whether it is suggested or required.

[Oville]

Oh good heavens, proper manners and good taste? I'm not ever going to judge anyone's manners or good taste. I'll worry about myself, not others.

[inforem]

It is simply a matter of proper manners and good taste. Those who possess the aforesaid follow the dress code, whether it is suggested or required.

 

I've witnessed formal attired drunk passengers many times. Proper manners and good taste, you got to be kidding.

[Orator]

It is simply a matter of proper manners and good taste. Those who possess the aforesaid follow the dress code, whether it is suggested or required.

 

The definition of "good taste" is? Even without a mutually agreed upon definition "good taste" and "proper manners" are mutually exclusive concepts. Clothes don't necessarily "make the man".

[Sascol]

Oh here we go.

[kennetro]

It is simply a matter of proper manners and good taste. Those who possess the aforesaid follow the dress code, whether it is suggested or required.

 

Amen!

[teajak]

The definition of "good taste" is? Even without a mutually agreed upon definition "good taste" and "proper manners" are mutually exclusive concepts. Clothes don't necessarily "make the man".

But courtesy and manners do.It is courteous to follow the recommendations of your host.

[Zoey]

Oh good heavens, proper manners and good taste? I'm not ever going to judge anyone's manners or good taste. I'll worry about myself, not others.

 

 

Unfortunately that seems to be the prevailing attitude nowdays doesn't it?

[Zoey]

I forgot to add.......Maybe I'm old fashioned by I DO worry about not unnecessarily offending or disrespecting those around me.

[Orator]

But courtesy and manners do.It is courteous to follow the recommendations of your host.

 

Yes, courtesy and manners do. My question was can one really equate "proper dress" with "good manners" One could dress according to the rules and behave badly. I've seen this far too many times especially when excessive drinking enters into the equation. One should always be respectful to others code or not. I no longer will comment on dress codes, I 'll leave that for others to debate.

[tserface]

I don't think they were saying that dressing according to the "code" makes you necessarily have good manners, but not dressing to the suggestions of your host demonstrates a type of bad manners. For example, if we were hosting a wedding and you showed up dressed for a swim party then that might be inappropriate for the venue. That doesn't mean that you are a bad person or that anyone dressed up properly has perfect etiquette, but the act itself demonstrates a lack of caring for the hosts wishes.

 

Of course that presumes you understand the hosts wishes and, in this case, they seem to be a bit wishy washy about it. As OP mentioned, they seem to list it as a recommendation, and they are not very consistent about enforcing it.

 

Still, their "recommendation" is pretty clear.

 

Tom

 

Yes, courtesy and manners do. My question was can one really equate "proper dress" with "good manners" One could dress according to the rules and behave badly. I've seen this far too many times especially when excessive drinking enters into the equation. One should always be respectful to others code or not. I no longer will comment on dress codes, I 'll leave that for others to debate.

[hawkeye3d]

You know this could eliminate a good portion of the posts to this forum

1. Allow wine to be brought aboard whenever, similar to HAL

2. Allow casual dining every day, similar to Oceania etc.

But on the other side boredom would surely follow :eek:

[luvs2fly]

How many times can you beat a dead horse? On the Celebrity thread, if it is not wearing formal wear we could beat it indefinitely.

[Lew's cruise]

I always dress neatly and do not feel the necessity to dress as others see fit. Don't like it ...Sorry but I buy my own clothes and dress as I see fit as should you.

[Bridge Maven]

With all the debates about whether the dress code for formal nights are required or recommended, I found this wording from another cruise line to be interesting:

 

"These requirements are not mandatory; however, in order to re-create a classic and memorable dining experience for you and all our Guests, we recommend the attire schedule that is planned for your cruise."

 

What I like about the wording from this cruise line is that they clearly communicate the intent of their dress code. If Celebrity's dress code wording was like this, it would take the guess work out of people trying to decide whether it is a suggestion or a mandate.

[swedish weave]

It is interesting that some want others to strictly adhere to the suggested dress codes and are critical of those who choose to wear different attire. HOWEVER -- Those same people think it is great to book a cruise for less money than the suggested book price of the cruise and boast about the GOOD DEALS they got.

 

Sort of double standards Isn't it ?? If the written word is law, then all should apply.

 

Keep one thing in mind about dress codes. If you see an "underdressed" person in the MDR on formal nights, that person was allowed to dine there by the cruise line personnel. They determine who is properly dressed, and your opinion is just an opinion. The person who is dining there should not be criticized for the attire they are wearing because it was accepted by the cruise line..

[Blazerboy]

It is interesting that some want others to strictly adhere to the suggested dress codes and are critical of those who choose to wear different attire. HOWEVER -- Those same people think it is great to book a cruise for less money than the suggested book price of the cruise and boast about the GOOD DEALS they got.

 

Sort of double standards Isn't it ?? If the written word is law, then all should apply.

 

If A equals B, then C equals a bicycle?

[C 2 C]

What I like about the wording from this cruise line is that they clearly communicate the intent of their dress code. If Celebrity's dress code wording was like this, it would take the guess work out of people trying to decide whether it is a suggestion or a mandate.

 

Definition of REQUIREMENT

 

: something required: a : something wanted or needed : necessity b : something essential to the existence or occurrence of something else :

The person who wrote that cruise line "policy" obviously wanted to obfuscate the whole issue by using "doublespeak"

 

Obfuscation (or beclouding) is the hiding of intended meaning in communication, making communication confusing, willfully ambiguous, and harder to interpret.

When someone says that "these requirements are not mandatory" he/she is stating these requirements are not requirements... in other words there are no requirements....and you can pretty well do what you darn well please...

Clear? We require that you dress up to please your fellow guests but if you really don't want to then wear whatever you want...

[Peteymil]

It is interesting that some want others to strictly adhere to the suggested dress codes and are critical of those who choose to wear different attire. HOWEVER -- Those same people think it is great to book a cruise for less money than the suggested book price of the cruise and boast about the GOOD DEALS they got.

quote]

 

Don't understand this logic or the logic of equating dress with manners!!

[swedish weave]

It is interesting that some want others to strictly adhere to the suggested dress codes and are critical of those who choose to wear different attire. HOWEVER -- Those same people think it is great to book a cruise for less money than the suggested book price of the cruise and boast about the GOOD DEALS they got.

quote]

 

Don't understand this logic or the logic of equating dress with manners!!

 

The logic is that the published dress codes are repeatedly pushed on CC boards as something everyone MUST do, but the published prices of cruises do not mean anything to the same people. They choose which items are important to them, and try to make all others follow their ideas.

[Orator]

 

The logic is that the published dress codes are repeatedly pushed on CC boards as something everyone MUST do, but the published prices of cruises do not mean anything to the same people. They choose which items are important to them, and try to make all others follow their ideas.

 

Rules are fixed. Rates fluctuate according to market conditions. A person looking for a better price is a wise consumer. A person knowingly violating a rule is a _____. Appears to me that you are comparing items that cannot be compared to each other and thus presenting fallacious reasoning. In logic it's called the "fallacy of equivocation".

[Peteymil]

 

The logic is that the published dress codes are repeatedly pushed on CC boards as something everyone MUST do, but the published prices of cruises do not mean anything to the same people. They choose which items are important to them, and try to make all others follow their ideas.

 

Still doesn't add up for me.....