Oceania, it is time to establish a formal child policy

[LHT28]

No exceptions made for rotten kids? :D

I guess we'll have to keep them then and make them conform.

Maybe they can put them in the brig :D

[Pirouette]

As the OP, I am surprised that one week later this thread has 6000+ views and 120 responses. Clearly these matters resonate with O cruisers.

 

My original intent was not to address the issue of whether children should be allowed on O cruises. Clearly, they are alreay present. The issue is how O balances the needs of famileis with children and those who prefer an adult environment.

 

The matters arose on my recent Baltic cruise on Marina. I was surprised to find children on such a port intensive itinerary. The younger group were generally well-behaved and beyond breakfast in the Terrace, we rarely saw them.

 

The group of tweens was a different issue. Our group made several complaints during the cruise: to reception, to the staff in Horizons, to the DJ, to the O entertainment staff and utlimately to the cruise director, Willie Ames. The children were asked to leave Horizons, but they would return later when the cruise director was gone. The was no obvious parental presence. Complaints regarding the presence of children in Horizons were made over several nights to no avail.

 

I would never suggest that the sky is falling because there are children on O. The point of my original post was to suggest that O establish some rules and policies to ensure that there remain adult areas on the ship after certain hours.

 

I am troubled by the lack of response by O to this obviously topical subject. I took a quick view on the Azamara board to see if similar issues existed. What struck me is that Azmara has a "board presence" with someone to respond to these types of concerns. O should take a page from Azamara's book in this regard. Silence, or hoping these concerns will simply "go away" is neither realistic nor acceptable.

 

The internet is a powerful tool. It allows travellers to evaluate their options and consider which cruise holiday best suits their needs and expectations. I would never suggest that travellers should overlook O-we had a wonderful cruise, save and except O's failure to address the young persons on the ship. Unless and until we are assured that there are adult spaces and rules that will be enforced by O, we will be considering other options.

[Paulchili]

Here is my take on this.

Oceania also has a very strong presence on these boards. No lesser authority than FDR himself monitors and frequently posts here.

I am sure that they have followed this discussion and are probably debating the matter (at least I hope that they are).

This is not the type of thing that they can have a "knee jerk" type of reaction to. They prefer not to say anything until they are certain as to what exactly they want to say.

I have no inside knowledge of this - this is strictly speculation on my part.

I think some answers and responses will come in time - either here or on Oceania's website.

[JimandStan]

This is not the type of thing that they can have a "knee jerk" type of reaction to. They prefer not to say anything until they are certain as to what exactly they want to say.

 

You are very insightful Paul.

Oceania's Management has maintained the brand so well because they take the time (and are willing to spend the money) to make the right decisions for the long haul.

 

Just think of the gamble that they took when it was decided to allow us to to carry our "cabin liquor" on, unpoliced. That was unheard of in the industry, and they were putting a significant revenue stream at risk, but Oceania sensed that "their demographic" would want to be treated like responsible adults. Now, other deluxe lines are scrambling to catch up.

 

As far as kids are concerned, the fine print has always given Oceania the right to control capacity on their ships (so no actual changes to the passage contract are required or can be announced); but in the past the fare structure, the sailing schedule and the average cruise length has always limited the number of children who wanted to book. This is all brand new territory.

 

After a decade in business (Happy Tenth, Oceania!), the policy toward younger cruisers is evolving, but changes made on that front might seem unrelated at first glance.

 

Look at it this way. the initial spate of trouble boiled up two or three months ago, yet nothing has been reported since (and it IS Summertime in the United States).

 

Oceania life "the way it used to be".......isn't that what we all really want?

[ksps cruise fan]

Look at it this way. the initial spate of trouble boiled up two or three months ago, yet nothing has been reported since (and it IS Summertime in the United States).

 

I truly want to believe you're right about a lack of trouble on summer cruises with significant percentages of children. Unfortunately, I can't be as optimistic as you simply based on the fact the "nothing has been reported."

 

Two reasons:

o Any math teacher or logic teacher will remind you that you can't infer a negative from a negative. Just because nothing has been reported doesn't mean there is nothing to report. Which brings me to the next point...

 

o If you read the Roll Calls, there used to be great wringing of hands and complaining about Oceania concerning staff unwillingness to close rooms so CC members could hold Meet and Greet parties. Often times, last minute arrangements got made, but, the response to in-advance efforts was typically "No. CC participants represent a very small percentage of the the passenger load of any cruise. We can't shut off a room for such a small group." (I simply don't remember the percentage mentioned, but it was a surprisingly low number. In addition, the rolls calls I've read recently mention nothing -- yea or nea -- about holding Meet and Greets on board.)

 

For those of us who participate in CC, the community feels very large and, certainly, CC posters include some of the most-plugged in Oceania cruisers. However, going on strict percentages, we're a blip in the total cruising demographic.

 

Again, I truly want to believe that the problems with unruly children are being successfully addressed. I can't think of a single cruise line that has more personal appeal than Oceania. I'm just not about to book a Holiday cruise on the basis of having heard nothing. Our next cruise will begin just when school gets back in session (Incidentally, Marina's 2011-12 Holiday Cruise was the first major episode of unruly children, eight months ago.) .

[LHT28]

Here is my take on this.

Oceania also has a very strong presence on these boards. No lesser authority than FDR himself monitors and frequently posts here.

I am sure that they have followed this discussion and are probably debating the matter (at least I hope that they are).

This is not the type of thing that they can have a "knee jerk" type of reaction to. They prefer not to say anything until they are certain as to what exactly they want to say.

I have no inside knowledge of this - this is strictly speculation on my part.

I think some answers and responses will come in time - either here or on Oceania's website.

+1

Well stated

[pacheco18]

[quote=JimandStan:

 

Oceania life "the way it used to be".......isn't that what we all really want?

 

Yes Yes Yes

[Mura]

 

o If you read the Roll Calls, there used to be great wringing of hands and complaining about Oceania concerning staff unwillingness to close rooms so CC members could hold Meet and Greet parties. Often times, last minute arrangements got made, but, the response to in-advance efforts was typically "No. CC participants represent a very small percentage of the the passenger load of any cruise. We can't shut off a room for such a small group." (I simply don't remember the percentage mentioned, but it was a surprisingly low number. In addition, the rolls calls I've read recently mention nothing -- yea or nea -- about holding Meet and Greets on board.)

 

 

As I have posted before, I've never had a problem setting up a Meet & Greet for CC groups (and the yahoo groups before that). I go to the Concierge with a list of members and their cabin numbers and the Concierge selects a place and time. It has always been in Horizons for events I have arranged so obviously they don't shut off the entire room just for us. But they rope off an area with a "Private Party" sign, and on Marina last October they even served noshes with the drinks. The Concierge also sends printed invitations to everyone.

 

On that October cruise many of our group met informally in Horizons the night we left Civitavecchia and the bartender virtually begged the host to go through the Concierge because they didn't want to be caught surprised when a large group shows up. We were about 35 people, I think. So then I arranged another get together through the Concierge and they couldn't have been more helpful.

 

Some of the complaints as I recall (correct me if I'm wrong) were talking about really large groups -- 100 to 200 people -- and I can see where that would be difficult for the ship to manage.

 

I'm leaving on the Black Sea cruise from Athens on Saturday and we already have arranged with the Concierge to have our group of about 40 people meet in Horizons that night -- one of our group is already on board so she handled this one.

 

Mura

[gillianrose]

We sail on the Regatta 12/4 to the Canal andwill more than likely have some children and teens onboard. In the the past my Holiday cruises were the AMAZON or TA and if i recall on those cruises the presence of children were scarce. I wasnt thinking about kids when we booked it but realize it is an education as well as vacation for them. I Now I am concerned because I could sail on RCCL if I want to surround myself with chidren. We are rethinking this cruise as our final payment is due in 2 weeks. Like other members I have chosen O because I enjoyed it as an adult line.

 

The children that might be aboard in early December would be pre-school age if they are from the Northern Hemisphere.

 

Many school-age children in the Southern Hemisphere begin their summer holidays the first week of December. Brazil and South Africa are two examples.

[Hawaiidan]

This entire problem can be dealt with in a Darwin line fashion.

Oceania has already established a policy with its agents of no discounting from list price.

 

They need to continue this non-discount policy to cabins. Everyone in whatever cabin, pays that cabin rate be they 1 or 100.

 

To charge less for a 3rd or 4th 1/10 of the fare is discrimination against the 1st and 2nd passenger unless they charge for the entire cabin alone with a new tariff..

The result is that parents would think twice about shelling out large sums for their kids.

Too, they would be attracted to the many kid friendly and discounts for families that other lines offer.

[orchestrapal]

This entire problem can be dealt with in a Darwin line fashion.

Oceania has already established a policy with its agents of no discounting from list price.

 

They need to continue this non-discount policy to cabins. Everyone in whatever cabin, pays that cabin rate be they 1 or 100.

 

What a great idea. Finally fair to the rest of us.;)

[wripro]

The part of the debate that O management will or is having on the subject of kids that we cannot ignore is that they are now trying to fill two large new ships in addition to the R ships. In order to do that they need to market to a younger demographic with kids, something they did not need to do so much when there were only the three R ships and when Oceania created its brand. The luxury lines are doing the same thing by having lots of seven day cruises during the summer months in order to attract younger cruisers. I think it's is a fact of life that kids will now become part of the O fabric. Our best hope is that O will find a way to deal with them that does not alienate us enough to stop cruising with them.

[pacheco18]

The part of the debate that O management will or is having on the subject of kids that we cannot ignore is that they are now trying to fill two large new ships in addition to the R ships. In order to do that they need to market to a younger demographic with kids, something they did not need to do so much when there were only the three R ships and when Oceania created its brand. The luxury lines are doing the same thing by having lots of seven day cruises during the summer months in order to attract younger cruisers. I think it's is a fact of life that kids will now become part of the O fabric. Our best hope is that O will find a way to deal with them that does not alienate us enough to stop cruising with them.

 

The problem is filling the larger ships IMO. Look at all the promotional materials for upcoming cruises on unfilled ships.

Let's put all the kids on the O ships and leave the R ships for adults.

[gillianrose]

The part of the debate that O management will or is having on the subject of kids that we cannot ignore is that they are now trying to fill two large new ships in addition to the R ships. In order to do that they need to market to a younger demographic with kids, something they did not need to do so much when there were only the three R ships and when Oceania created its brand. The luxury lines are doing the same thing by having lots of seven day cruises during the summer months in order to attract younger cruisers. I think it's is a fact of life that kids will now become part of the O fabric. Our best hope is that O will find a way to deal with them that does not alienate us enough to stop cruising with them.

 

The Baby Boomer generation is all Oceania needs to fill all its ships (for the next 18 years, at least), considering how large a group we are and how much our generation travels already and will travel in the future. People are living longer and remaining healthier longer. Cruising is going to consume a greater portion of travel dollars as a person ages as it is much easier to do than land travel.

 

Oceania's past ingredient for success (cruising for adults) is a hallmark of the line and is what will sustain it once the economy improves even just a little, unless in the meantime the demographics of O's ships changes to include numerous children and the adult traveler can no longer trust that they will have an adult experience on Oceania.

 

In addition to the Baby Boomer generation, there are generations just prior to and just following ours that will also sustain Oceania. We just want to be able to count on having an adult experience surrounded by other adults.

[Paulchili]

The part of the debate that O management will or is having on the subject of kids that we cannot ignore is that they are now trying to fill two large new ships in addition to the R ships. In order to do that they need to market to a younger demographic with kids, something they did not need to do so much when there were only the three R ships and when Oceania created its brand. The luxury lines are doing the same thing by having lots of seven day cruises during the summer months in order to attract younger cruisers. I think it's is a fact of life that kids will now become part of the O fabric. Our best hope is that O will find a way to deal with them that does not alienate us enough to stop cruising with them.

 

While your premise about the need to fill larger ships is correct, I don't quite see how it helps O bottom line to do that at $100 and $200 per kid (unless one assumes that those cabins would otherwise go unoccupied - a definite possibility).

[gillianrose]

Once reports come back that there are repeatedly large numbers of children on board (and at reduced rates), Oceania will have a harder time filling its ships, since the loyal cruisers of years past will not automatically look to Oceania to fill their cruising desires, and once you lose your core group of loyalists, you will have a hard time getting them back.

 

Families with children are not going to pay the same per person rates that adults pay, and as an adult I won't pay $400-$500 per person per day when kids are charged only $100 per person, per day.

[pacheco18]

The Baby Boomer generation is all Oceania needs to fill all its ships (for the next 18 years, at least), considering how large a group we are and how much our generation travels already and will travel in the future. People are living longer and remaining healthier longer. Cruising is going to consume a greater portion of travel dollars as a person ages as it is much easier to do than land travel.

 

Oceania's past ingredient for success (cruising for adults) is a hallmark of the line and is what will sustain it once the economy improves even just a little, unless in the meantime the demographics of O's ships changes to include numerous children and the adult traveler can no longer trust that they will have an adult experience on Oceania.

 

In addition to the Baby Boomer generation, there are generations just prior to and just following ours that will also sustain Oceania. We just want to be able to count on having an adult experience surrounded by other adults.

 

Perfectly said. I could not agree more. I hope someone at O is listening!!

[Jancruz]

Once reports come back that there are repeatedly large numbers of children on board (and at reduced rates), Oceania will have a harder time filling its ships, since the loyal cruisers of years past will not automatically look to Oceania to fill their cruising desires, and once you lose your core group of loyalists, you will have a hard time getting them back.

 

Families with children are not going to pay the same per person rates that adults pay, and as an adult I won't pay $400-$500 per person per day when kids are charged only $100 per person, per day.

 

On Oceania children pay the same rate as adults unless they are 3rd or 4th person in the cabin then they pay those rates..there are NO discounted childrens rates!

Jancruz1

[gillianrose]

On Oceania children pay the same rate as adults unless they are 3rd or 4th person in the cabin then they pay those rates..there are NO discounted childrens rates!

Jancruz1

 

Yes, I think most all of us know that. I know I have stated that numerous times. But for every cruise I have looked at that was of interest to me on the O ships, there is that "3rd and 4th" person rate of only $100 per person.

 

That is effectively discounted children's rates.

 

Whenever there is a 3rd and 4th rate of only $100 per person per day, then adults that are two to a cabin are paying a SIGNIFICANTLY HIGHER rate than the "kids" in those 3rd and 4th berths.

 

We book suites, usually, and don't feel it is fair that we are paying more per person than others with those promotions. If we pay $500 per person per day and the 3rd's and 4th's get to travel for $100 per person per day in the same rate suite, then we are paying 80% more than they are.

[GrammieK]

I know this makes it sound even worse, but you are actually paying 500 percent more using $100/ day for 3rd and 4th in the room and using $500/day you!

WOW!

[Hawaiidan]

What would the policy makers think if say a group of adults all got together and all shared cabins for a cruise to protest this discrimination. They would loose their A** financialy;).

 

You would have in effect people booking all the larger revenue room and filling them with passengers paying or getting a 40% or more discount !

 

So rent the a suite for 2 and advertise on e-bay for paying boarders.. at share the cost.. now everyone in not paying 600 a day for 2 but sharing the cost + 100 pp. =$ 800 so everyone is saving $100 pp a day ! Thats a loss of $400 of adult revenue for every cabin !

[JimandStan]

What would the policy makers think if say a group of adults all got together and all shared cabins for a cruise to protest this discrimination. They would loose their A** financialy;).

 

You would have in effect people booking all the larger revenue room and filling them with passengers paying or getting a 40% or more discount !

 

So rent the a suite for 2 and advertise on e-bay for paying boarders.. at share the cost.. now everyone in not paying 600 a day for 2 but sharing the cost + 100 pp. =$ 800 so everyone is saving $100 pp a day ! Thats a loss of $400 of adult revenue for every cabin !

 

There are no Suites that sleep more than Three persons, so your example is flawed from the get go.

 

As to the third and fourth person in a room, there are MANY MANY Adults who use that cost savings their advantage, and having met some of them in person I can tell you that you DON'T WANT TO CROSS THEM.

 

I'm serious, they will cut you. :eek:

[Paulchili]

There are no Suites that sleep more than Three persons, so your example is flawed from the get go.

 

As to the third and fourth person in a room, there are MANY MANY Adults who use that cost savings their advantage, and having met some of them in person I can tell you that you DON'T WANT TO CROSS THEM.

 

I'm serious, they will cut you. :eek:

 

Do you mean 4 adults (not parents with 2 kids) in the same (veranda) room?

If so, not only would I not pay $100/pp/day but they would have to pay me a lot more than $100/day to cruise like that :D

[LHT28]

Do you mean 4 adults (not parents with 2 kids) in the same (veranda) room?

If so, not only would I not pay $100/pp/day but they would have to pay me a lot more than $100/day to cruise like that :D

+1

some days the cabin is too small for the 2 of us :D

[ricki]

There are no Suites that sleep more than Three persons, so your example is flawed from the get go.

 

As to the third and fourth person in a room, there are MANY MANY Adults who use that cost savings their advantage, and having met some of them in person I can tell you that you DON'T WANT TO CROSS THEM.

 

I'm serious, they will cut you. :eek:

 

Very true!

 

Ricki