What would you like to see improved?

[circuitrider]

NOBODY - and I mean nobody - ever asks for more elevators.

 

I guess you missed the first post in this thread...or else don't know that lifts = elevators. Hey, more elevators aren't anywhere near the top of my list, but obviously SOMEONE has asked for them.

 

For those passengers who do not like or utilize this business model:

....

3. We don't make any profit when you sail on our ships. We really do not want or need you.

 

Wow, what a great way to alienate a lot of your customers.

[didiaust]

I just wanted to add ... the cruise lines I have been on (HAL, P&O, Star, Princess) seem to employ the most sour, unfriendly people in the casino. Even when the place is empty and they should be aiming to gain custom, they stand at their tables with a mean glare and chook-bum-mouth.

 

Many of the casino staff come from European countries which tend to breed very serious personalities. We have become friends with some staff over the years(spent too much time at the tables) and they are great kids. We have picked them up for the day when in our hometown port and given them a BBQ and look around. They also have to be on their toes and watch out for possible fraudsters but I agree many need to liven up.

[Aussieflyer]

There is a poll over on the Princess board with no end of negative comments about the new ship - especially how it is "not like" the others. I guess people have their favourite ships and their favourite features and when these are changed are very upset. Based on the size of the ship it is highly unlikely to be sailing from Australia in the foreseeable future. We get the "oldies" (but I would debate "goodies") based here.

What would I like to see improved? Coffee of course, but also bar/lounge areas that are not like barns. Some of the ones on ships we have been on lost any ambience because they are a)very large and b) a thoroughfare for passengers to get from one area to another.

[The_Big_M]

Cruise lines listen very carefully to their customers.

When a great percentage of cruise customers asks for something, they usually get it.

One of the most popular requests is alternative dining options.

That's why EVERY cruise line is adding more venues, and looking for even more new dining options.

NOBODY - and I mean nobody - ever asks for more elevators.

 

Bear in mind that the current cruise line business model is designed on offering the lowest possible cruise price to fill ships - but not at a profit.

Then the cruise lines make a profit only by selling you extra things once you are onboard.

 

For those passengers who do not like or utilize this business model:

 

1. It has proven to be the most successful business scheme we have tried in the past 50 years.

2. It will not change anytime soon.

3. We don't make any profit when you sail on our ships. We really do not want or need you.

 

I can't agree with pretty much all you've written there.

[BruceMuzz]

I guess you missed the first post in this thread...or else don't know that lifts = elevators. Hey, more elevators aren't anywhere near the top of my list, but obviously SOMEONE has asked for them.

 

I'm very well aware tha tlift = elevators.

But in the 32 years I have managed cruise ships all around the world, reading thousands of comment cards every week, this is the very first time anyone has mentioned we need more lifts. Definitely not at the top of anyone's list.

 

Wow, what a great way to alienate a lot of your customers.

 

Actually it is not a very good way at all. We have far more customers than we can handle. We keep trying to alienate the cheap charlies - but they keep coming back.

[circuitrider]

But in the 32 years I have managed cruise ships all around the world, reading thousands of comment cards every week, this is the very first time anyone has mentioned we need more lifts. Definitely not at the top of anyone's list.

 

See, THAT I could have gotten behind, and wouldn't have bothered to comment on. This is the first time anyone mentioned more lifts, and not at the top of anyone's list (without checking, I think it was #2 for the OP). But if you say "NOBODY - and I mean nobody - ever asks for more elevators" in response to someone who did just that...I find that hilarious.

 

Actually it is not a very good way at all. We have far more customers than we can handle. We keep trying to alienate the cheap charlies - but they keep coming back.

 

Rule #1. You don't tell a customer to his face "We really do not want or need you." At best, you smile, tell him/her that you appreciate his/her past business, that you are changing your product to appeal to a certain demographic, and hope to see him/her again soon.

 

One big reason for this...saying you don't want the cheapies' business anymore...well, exactly WHO are you referring to? I think you're referring to me, because I don't order a drink at the bar, only once bought the soda package, don't buy photos anymore (I think we've bought 2-3 total), only bought one ship excursion. etc. But we do tip, occasionally buy a soda, try out the alternative dining, etc. Ok, so maybe you ARE referring to me...or maybe you're referring to the guy who smuggles on five bottles of alcohol, doesn't pay a penny onboard, removes all their tips, and complains the whole time. But I get offended, and he doesn't give a crap what you think of him (though if he hears you talk bad about him, he'll demand a refund for this cruise and a free future cruise as well). If your employer's plan is to directly insult people so they never cruise with them again, so be it; but it's not good business sense.

 

Rule #2. If you want to alienate the cheap charlies, as you put it, then stop appealing to them. Let the ship sail half empty instead of slashing the price to such a point it's cheaper for them to book a cruise than to do most anything else. And change the tips to be a non-refundable service charge, that'll really alienate a lot of the "cheap charlies".

[rkmw]

Actually it is not a very good way at all. We have far more customers than we can handle. We keep trying to alienate the cheap charlies - but they keep coming back.

 

very strange comment for someone who has been in the business for 32 years.....without repeat customers and it doesnt matter if someone books a cheap charlie as long as they are happy and they can save a few dollars and book another cruise

[Aussieflyer]

Cruise lines listen very carefully to their customers.

When a great percentage of cruise customers asks for something, they usually get it.

One of the most popular requests is alternative dining options.

That's why EVERY cruise line is adding more venues, and looking for even more new dining options.

NOBODY - and I mean nobody - ever asks for more elevators.

Most customers are not going to ask for more elevators/lifts - what are they going to do? Write to the cruise line and say "Hey, I had a great cruise but you need to put in a few more lifts"? Likewise it is not something that will be added to a comment card. We accept that the ship is the way it is - it is not possible to add lifts (whereas it is often possible to add specialty restaurants at a refit by reconfiguring some existing spaces).

That said, it does not follow that because they have not been asked about, everything is "hunky dory" - on several ships I have cruised on the lifts have been abysmal - for example Dawn Princess where you need to run from one side of the ship to the other to see if one is coming and they are universally slow. So yes, more lifts would be an improvement. And remember this thread is all about wishlists and hypotheticals in a light hearted way. That's the whole idea.

[sherri3802au]

Interesting read.:)

 

Thanks for the comments, everyone.

 

First off, just let me say that by saying I wouldn't mind a few more lifts, I didn't mean to cut back on the stairs.

I refuse to believe though that lift speed or efficiency will 'never' be improved or that lifts don't frustrate a lot of passengers. I have seen it for myself.

On the feedback forms, it was never something I mentioned though.

 

As for BruceMuzz. What a very odd set of posts. If you don't want or need passengers, and there is no profit in it, except for shop sales, then why would a cruise company run a ship at all?

 

The reality, whether you like it or not, is if you want to stay in work, you need, in one form or another, 'bums on seats', as our principal at school is fond of saying.:p

 

You remind me of Basil Fawlty-you would run a great cruise line if only you didn't have to have passengers spoiling it for you. LOL

 

Am I a cheap charlie? Not really. We tipped very well last cruise and bought some things. I don't drink a lot though and we didn't eat at specialty restaurants.

I am not saying people don't like an alternative venue or two, but I am also seeing a lot of cruisers complain that the meals in main dining rooms aren't as good as they used to be and fearing that cruise lines might be trying to force them to move to paid dining by this.

It's just a view.

[circuitrider]

You remind me of Basil Fawlty-you would run a great cruise line if only you didn't have to have passengers spoiling it for you. LOL

 

I think you hit the nail on the head! That is how he comes off in his other posts.

[skipal]

Cruise lines listen very carefully to their customers.

When a great percentage of cruise customers asks for something, they usually get it.

One of the most popular requests is alternative dining options.

That's why EVERY cruise line is adding more venues, and looking for even more new dining options.

NOBODY - and I mean nobody - ever asks for more elevators.

 

Bear in mind that the current cruise line business model is designed on offering the lowest possible cruise price to fill ships - but not at a profit.

Then the cruise lines make a profit only by selling you extra things once you are onboard.

 

For those passengers who do not like or utilize this business model:

 

1. It has proven to be the most successful business scheme we have tried in the past 50 years.

2. It will not change anytime soon.

3. We don't make any profit when you sail on our ships. We really do not want or need you.

 

Hi BruceMuzz,

What a wonderful way to encourage custom from Australia!

Sure, you dont need us. But the irony is that we probably spend more on board than US or even European cruisers.

We pay a lot to travel to overseas cruise ports and we usually want to have a great time while we are there. Australians are definitely not "cheap cruisers".

I would appreciate if you could let us know what cruise line you are connected with as I will try to avoid it in the future.

Skipal

[sherri3802au]

skipal, I would also love to know which cruise company and in what capacity.;)

I have a feeling the managers of the company would have a fit at some of the views expressed.

 

I often read the reviews on this site, the ones by ordinary cruisers, not so much the official paid reviews. I have to admit that sometimes, reading between the lines, I have thought that some people sound very picky and I would hate to be trying to cater for them.

On the other hand, some outline their complaints and I can quite see their point of view. A person working in the front line of a cruise company could easily get jaded but they need to move through that and just listen. In any business, that is the first rule. Doesn't mean they would necessarily have to agree with every idea of course. But pouring scorn on anyone just because they have a different point of view or might have any criticism isn't the best way to go either.

 

From what I can see, there are definitely different 'levels' of cruise ships, if I can put it that way. BruceMuzz, I think, harks back to an earlier era of cruising perhaps, when cruising was more exclusive. Or maybe he needs to switch companies to a more exclusive line because he sounds as if he doesn't like ordinary customers.

From what I have been reading, cruising has grown, the passenger base has expanded.

My own perception is that a lot of cruise companies over here-Princess, P&O Australia, Royal Caribbean- they are all chasing Mr and Mrs Average. They keep sending me pamphlets by post and emails, anyway.;)

I like cruising, but I am not a fan to the extent of saying I'll cruise no matter what. I do take other types of holidays as well eg coach tours. I was attracted to cruising on a number of fronts-the ambience of a ship, the space and the all inclusive nature of the price, where you knew where you were with base price for the trip and food etc

Obviously there's discretionary spending on any holiday too.

But the total package has to add up to value or customers (quite a few of them anyway) really would go elsewhere, for the simple reason cruising also has disadvantages.

 

I would really just say this: I started the thread to get some ideas of what different people would like to see on ships.:)

I guess it was just meant as a whimsical wish list, not any sort of demand.

 

I mentioned the lifts because yes, BruceMuzz is right, ;), not a lot of posts in here ever mention them. Doubt most people mention them on their feedback forms either. But I have actually seen a lot of people seem frustrated and walk away from them and I have seen lifts actually mentioned in some of the cruise reviews.

It may not be a huge issue, but it's out there and I wondered what other people thought.

 

 

Can I just say too that if any cruise line genuinely is running at not a cent profit from fares and is relying simply on discretionary spending by travellers for profit, then that is what I would call taking a bit of a gamble.Especially when you are out there, specifically advertising as an all inclusive holiday.

When you gamble, expect to lose sometimes. :-)

[BruceMuzz]

Hi BruceMuzz,

What a wonderful way to encourage custom from Australia!

Sure, you dont need us. But the irony is that we probably spend more on board than US or even European cruisers.

We pay a lot to travel to overseas cruise ports and we usually want to have a great time while we are there. Australians are definitely not "cheap cruisers".

I would appreciate if you could let us know what cruise line you are connected with as I will try to avoid it in the future.

Skipal

 

Skipal,

I never mentioned not needing or wanting Australian passengers.

We just don't want cheap passengers - no matter where they come from.

 

You are correct, Aussies spend more on board than just about any other nationality.

You are the people who keep my company in business and keep me working.

I am always happy to see you booking cruises.

 

I did not design this business model of selling cruises at cost and then trying to make a profit from onboard selling.

You didn't design it either.

But we are stuck with it.

 

As a stockholder and employee, I have a very strong interest in encouraging those who like to purchase things onboard; and a very strong incentive to alienate those who want to kill my budget.

Nationality has nothing to do with it.

[Pushka]

 

You remind me of Basil Fawlty-you would run a great cruise line if only you didn't have to have passengers spoiling it for you. LOL

 

Dontcha hate it when those pesky clients get in the way of your business?

 

Lifts - I walk up and down stairs so the lift issue was a non even for us.

 

What would I like changed? Hmm, a move away from the tastes of American consumers because even though they may be in the majority right now, that business model will change in the next few years.

 

I do like the stores in the ships so that doesnt bother me. I would like more opportunities to learn eg about cultures of the countries visited, rather than artificial fun eg with Quest and the like. Hate such things.:o

 

And of course, uniform pricing across the world. The current model MUST get broken.

 

Are Australians cheap skates? Nope. We pay our service staff well so they don't have to rely on tips. But we don't appreciate being ripped off.

 

We are not "stuck" with any kind of model.

[skipal]

I never thought that lifts were an issue until I went on a cruise from New York last year . It was an older group of travellers, with a large number in wheelchairs or on walking frames. I found it heartening that they still enjoyed travelling and it gave me a lot more hope for my future years.

However, their attitude and "sense of entitlement" was appalling- particularly in regard to the lifts.

 

There were 4 lifts in each lift well, so it could be assumed that another would arrive in a short time. That didn't stop wheelchair users from squeezing into the already full lift and refusing to move and let people out at the next floor. Or keeping the door open for their friend who would be arriving shortly. We were trapped in the far corner of a lift for 20 minutes on our way to dinner one night.

We eventually started taking the stairs for dinner (the ballet flats were not very elegant but comfortable)

 

Yes, we need more lifts on cruise ships, maybe even some express lifts at different times of the day . We also need some lifts dedicated solely for the use of people in wheelchairs, similar to disabled toilets and bathrooms.

 

I would also like to see the wifi charges lower. Sometimes the log on is so slow that valuable time is used up.

[skipal]

Just for the record, Bruce Muzz, we spend lots of money on board. At the jewellery shops, at the bars, on wifi, on wine with dinner, at other stores etc.

But surprisingly we have never yet dined at a specialty restaurant. That is not because we are "cheap" but because we have always been content with the menu choices in the dining room.

 

I must admit I am a bit concerned at the expansion of "specialty dining" . Will it lead to a reduction of standards in the free dining areas to "encourage " people to spend money on meals? Tell me if Im being cynical? :rolleyes:

[MMDown Under]

Fortunately, not all cruise lines are the same as the business model mentioned here.

 

I have recently been on a wonderful cruise with Fred.Olsen's Black Watch, where two delicious speciality dinners, one Chinese and one Indian, were provided in the beautiful Cafe at no extra charge.

 

Tea and coffee and an electric jug were provided in the cabins, as well as available 24 hours near the Cafe.

 

Recommended gratuities were 2 pounds pppd for the stewardess and 2 pounds pppd for the waiter.

 

I like their Welcome Aboard which states "it is all about the people".

[The_Big_M]

I must admit I am a bit concerned at the expansion of "specialty dining" . Will it lead to a reduction of standards in the free dining areas to "encourage " people to spend money on meals? Tell me if Im being cynical? :rolleyes:

 

I don't think it would be done in such a way. But they each have costs associated with them, so dining is and has been cut back. Specialty dining is different, as you wouldn't pay money to get less, and people will only buy there if they see it has value so when the equation needs to change there, it's usually that prices rise.

[Kiwi Kruzer]

For the record I do prefer cruising where it is an all inclusive fare and everything , except drinks tips and shore excursions are included.

One trend that is evolving overseas is that cruise lines offer a standard , almost set menu in the main dining room which is included in your fare , and then offer several choices of alternative dining.... at a charge.

ie If you want the lobster , fillet steak , or whatever , you go to that venue , and pay.

 

I guess in that way ...the "cheap Charlies" only get what they have paid for.:D:D

 

 

[BruceMuzz]

Just for the record, Bruce Muzz, we spend lots of money on board. At the jewellery shops, at the bars, on wifi, on wine with dinner, at other stores etc.

But surprisingly we have never yet dined at a specialty restaurant. That is not because we are "cheap" but because we have always been content with the menu choices in the dining room.

 

I must admit I am a bit concerned at the expansion of "specialty dining" . Will it lead to a reduction of standards in the free dining areas to "encourage " people to spend money on meals? Tell me if Im being cynical? :rolleyes:

 

Skipal,

 

Great to hear.

 

As for your concerns about specialty restaurants, you needn't worry.

Even on ships that feature multiple specialty restaurants, the total maximum number of people who can dine in those restaurants on any given night is only a few hundred.

And in most cases, all those restaurants are already fully booked every evening.

 

What would be the point of trying to encourage many more people to try to dine in specialty restaurants that are already fully booked and could not possibly accommodate them?

[Aussieflyer]

As for your concerns about specialty restaurants, you needn't worry.....

And in most cases, all those restaurants are already fully booked every evening.

 

I beg to differ - the general consensus is that the food in MDRs on a number cruise lines has slipped in quality as the line makes cost cuts. Some dishes that were routinely offered are not now or only once per cruise. The standard of dishes in the MDR although not bad is not upper 4 star (it is impossible IMO to deliver a 5 * dining experience when mass catering). Even luxury lines like Seabourn are cutting back on the quality of the included wine.

So, if people are dissatisfied with the MDR offering they are going to want an alternative restaurant. The refits of many ships include adding more specialty restaurants. There is a real shift to adding them. The other move is to charge a la carte for dishes - at times this works out to be more that the previous cover charge.

What skipal's justifiable concern is that lines are lowering standards in MDRs while at the same time increasing the user pays restaurants purely as a money making scheme.

I don't understand your comment that specialty restaurants are full every night therefore skipal has nothing to worry about. That is not the point at all - it is about the lines' expansion of these at the cost of the standards in free eateries.

[The_Big_M]

What would be the point of trying to encourage many more people to try to dine in specialty restaurants that are already fully booked and could not possibly accommodate them?

 

First you had one, then there were three, now some have 7 or more specialty venues.

 

Capacity is not a limitation, some ships are even being refurbished converting public space to revenue generating areas, so there are many ways that can be addressed.

[Aussieflyer]

First you had one, then there were three, now some have 7 or more specialty venues.

 

Capacity is not a limitation, some ships are even being refurbished converting public space to revenue generating areas, so there are many ways that can be addressed.

 

My point exactly Big M:)

[sherri3802au]

I beg to differ - the general consensus is that the food in MDRs on a number cruise lines has slipped in quality as the line makes cost cuts. Some dishes that were routinely offered are not now or only once per cruise. The standard of dishes in the MDR although not bad is not upper 4 star (it is impossible IMO to deliver a 5 * dining experience when mass catering). Even luxury lines like Seabourn are cutting back on the quality of the included wine.

So, if people are dissatisfied with the MDR offering they are going to want an alternative restaurant. The refits of many ships include adding more specialty restaurants. There is a real shift to adding them. The other move is to charge a la carte for dishes - at times this works out to be more that the previous cover charge.

What skipal's justifiable concern is that lines are lowering standards in MDRs while at the same time increasing the user pays restaurants purely as a money making scheme.

I don't understand your comment that specialty restaurants are full every night therefore skipal has nothing to worry about. That is not the point at all - it is about the lines' expansion of these at the cost of the standards in free eateries.

 

Exactly right, aussie flyer.

 

As for Bruce, who was saying he really only wants to encourage big spenders and get rid of 'cheap charlie's'. Well,:p:p blow me down, isn't that what every business would like? That every customer happily spent the max and caused the seller minimal effort and easy profit? life doesn't work that way.Sorry, bruce, you're going to have to work harder than that for it, I am afraid.

If you want profit, you basically have to please the buyer and offer what they want or they will go elsewhere.

If you don't want people going along and expecting a lot of things to be inclusive, fine, then don't advertise it as such and then whine because quite a few people take the advertising as true.

 

Just to send BM into convulsions here,;) I should add that when I have been cruising, there have been 6 of us-3 couples-and none of us went into the specialty dining on the cruises.

 

We also enjoyed the free pizza place, the free lectures and a few other things.

It's those sorts of touches that actaully play a part in helping us decide what cruise line to go with and we were quite impressed with Princess lines.

Please tell me you're not with Princess, BM!!:D.

[BruceMuzz]

Exactly right, aussie flyer.

 

As for Bruce, who was saying he really only wants to encourage big spenders and get rid of 'cheap charlie's'. Well,:p:p blow me down, isn't that what every business would like? That every customer happily spent the max and caused the seller minimal effort and easy profit? life doesn't work that way.Sorry, bruce, you're going to have to work harder than that for it, I am afraid.

If you want profit, you basically have to please the buyer and offer what they want or they will go elsewhere.

If you don't want people going along and expecting a lot of things to be inclusive, fine, then don't advertise it as such and then whine because quite a few people take the advertising as true.

 

Just to send BM into convulsions here,;) I should add that when I have been cruising, there have been 6 of us-3 couples-and none of us went into the specialty dining on the cruises.

 

We also enjoyed the free pizza place, the free lectures and a few other things.

It's those sorts of touches that actaully play a part in helping us decide what cruise line to go with and we were quite impressed with Princess lines.

Please tell me you're not with Princess, BM!!:D.

 

Actually life ON LAND does not work that way. You are absolutely correct.

But life AT SEA is very different.

 

Firstly, my company NEVER advertises that we are all-inclusive. Your travel agent might claim that fact, but it is not true. There is no cruise line on earth that is currently all-inclusive. There are a few high end lines that are PARTIALLY inclusive. There are also a few very low end lines that are forced to be partially inclusive. Their ships are in such poor shape that they must offer something to lure business.

 

My ship has 11 alternative restaurants onboard (in addition to the main dining rooms and buffets). Currently 7 of them carry an additional charge and 4 do not. These restaurants are fully booked every night. At full capacity they can serve 30% of our passengers each night.

The other 70% cannot possibly get in and must eat in the more traditional venues.

 

Is the food and service better in the alternative restaurants? Absolutely. Food is cooked to order in these smaller venues - rather than in large industrial batches like in the main dining rooms.

We spend far more for the food ingredients in these specialty restaurants. Passengers paying a premium to dine there allow us to have a much larger food cost budget for these venues.

Waiters in these specialty venues have much smaller stations and have far more time to interact with guests. These waiters are better trained than our standard waiters - and they earn more money in tips.

 

Is the food and service worse in the main dining room? It is the same as it has always been.

However, now our passengers have a new point of reference.They compare the higher quality of the new specialty restaurants to the same old quality of the main dining room and decide that we have cut back in the dining rooms. It's all a matter of perspective.

 

As for ridding ourselves of the less desirable passenger demographics, we have a very distinct advantage. We are mobile.

 

If our ships are not enjoying a favorable result in one area, we simply move elsewhere. Until very recently, there were many cruise ships sailing out of California. We looked at the financial results and were disappointed. The Californians were not able to spend the money we needed to make our presence there worthwhile. Over the past 18 months, Disney, Royal Caribbean, NCL, Princess, Celebrity, HAL, and Carnival pulled all or most of their ships out of California. The few remaining ships will be leaving this year.

 

A few of those ships relocated to Australia. This is a test. We will take a very close look at revenues there. If they are not up to expectations, these ships will move to China and Japan.

 

You will be happy to know that I am not with Princess. In the past year they have made such drastic cutbacks in food quality and service that I would never consider sailing with them.