Aussies being ripped off, price gorging and the ACCC.

[Kamloops50]

I have problems with flights from ,to or within Canada. The posted fares seem low until you do a simulated booking and find the final cost is almost double. I can fly to Europe for the same cost as flying coast to coast or to the US. Becuase I have to fly to most cruise ports I look at airfares closely. We have flown from the US if the airfare is significantly cheaper.:)

[Aus Traveller]

The important distinction is whether you booked the alaskan and hawaiian cruises through australian travel agents/websites or through US or Canadian travel agents/websites. For the same cruise the US and canadian travel agents can save you $000's per person at some stage in the lead up to the cruise (not talking about last minute deals).

 

The americans have price drops that we don't get.

 

I am not sure which cruiseline you are referring to with your comment on price drops.

 

Years ago, Aussies weren't able to get price drops with Princess Cruises, but I believe that policy changed a year or two ago and we now have the same opportunity for price drops as Americans. However, a lot of Aussies misunderstand the way this works (for Americans as well as us) - The reduced price is only if the cruiseline drops the price for the category booked and only prior to final payment. The customer has to request the price drop, and it does not apply to "new bookings only" or what the Americans call "flash sales". From what I have seen in the US that is the way it works there, and Princess announced a year or two ago, that this would apply also in Aust.

 

Maybe this poster is referring to other cruiselines (Royal Caribbean?).

 

We were on the 47 night Indian Ocean cruise in May 2011 and paid around $4,990 (tips included) each. When we were on board, we had a few separate people grandly inform us that if we had booked through an American TA we would have saved a lot of money. Oh yeah? :D I told them, with the price we paid, if it was any cheaper, Princess would have been paying us to cruise.:D

 

Because we cruise a lot on Princess I read the Princess forum that is made up mainly of Americans with a few Brits and a couple of Aussies thrown in. People here complain about different pricing because we are in Aust, but the Americans complain about different pricing for different states in the US. I think the term they use is "regional pricing".

[Aus Traveller]

I have problems with flights from ,to or within Canada. The posted fares seem low until you do a simulated booking and find the final cost is almost double. I can fly to Europe for the same cost as flying coast to coast or to the US. Becuase I have to fly to most cruise ports I look at airfares closely. We have flown from the US if the airfare is significantly cheaper.:)

 

That is so annoying. :(This is the "component pricing" that a previous poster complained about.

 

This used to happen in Australia. I remember reading in the Sunday newspaper about a great cruise at a good price out of the US. Our well-known TA that specialises in flights usually has a large ad, and the airfare from Aust to LA shown in their ad was really low.:) I phoned to check if we could get a flight when we wanted, and (guess what), by the time they added fees and taxes, the price was nearly double. I told them what I thought of that and we forgot the idea of the cruise. Very shortly after that (and not caused by me!) the Aust government declared this type of component pricing illegal. Just as all goods sold at retail level in Aust have to include GST (tax) and show only the final price, airlines etc. have to do the same for the last couple of years.

 

With due respect to the previous poster, I have never seen similar component pricing on cruises advertised in Australia. I have in the US. The "from" shown on ads in Australia simply refers to the cheapest cabin on board, and often priced as a quad not a twin or single. I feel that is a reasonable way to advertise it. After all, they don't know how many people want to book in the one cabin (even if the most common booking is for twin).

[Kiwi Kruzer]

Very shortly after that (and not caused by me!) the Aust government declared this type of component pricing illegal. Just as all goods sold at retail level in Aust have to include GST (tax) and show only the final price, airlines etc. have to do the same for the last couple of years.

 

That is also because Governments do not want to be embarrassed by,

or let the general population know ,

how much they are creaming off in taxes and levies.

 

 

[Aus Traveller]

That is also because Governments do not want to be embarrassed by,

or let the general population know ,

how much they are creaming off in taxes and levies.

 

On cruises out of Australia there is no GST. I don't know if there are any other taxes the Australian government adds - maybe there aren't any. The main charges added into the basic cruise price are port fees. Some (or at least one) would be Australian, but that would be the Port Authority, not the federal government.

[MMDown Under]

I seem to recall that cruise lines don't pay tax to the Australian Government (? Carnival annual report).

 

Until the recently announced increase, port fees were very low.

[Aus Traveller]

I seem to recall that cruise lines don't pay tax to the Australian Government (? Carnival annual report).

 

I think that is correct. If the company was paying a tax it would be income tax and that wouldn't be added directly to a cruise fare.

[iRate]

I think that is correct. If the company was paying a tax it would be income tax and that wouldn't be added directly to a cruise fare.

 

That is my understanding, they don't pay payroll tax.

 

In fact I have a hunch that they don't pay much tax at all. This is something someone who understands international tax law might be able to clear up.

 

Most of the ships are based in low tax havens. hence the flags of convenience.

 

Starbucks and Google have recently been in the news, especially in the UK for paying virtually no tax due to the way they have structured their businesses, and where they have taken advantage of off shore low tax, or no tax havens.

[iRate]

No one is being forced to go on a cruise.

 

Its actually your own money and you have the discretion to spend it as you wish.

 

While you are on the net buying your so called cheap cruise , and doing your fellow countrymen out of jobs,

why not place an order for a new car in the States as well . Americans can buy cars a lot cheaper than we can.

 

I don't see anyone whinging about that.

 

Cruise fares ...even in Australian dollars , are the cheapest they have ever been.

 

Get out there and enjoy , instead of throwing your toys out of the pram .

 

 

Actually it's the cruise lines driving Aussies off shore to purchase from overseas agents because the fares are, in some cases up to thousands of dollars more.

 

All we are asking for is a level playing field and to allow Aussie travel agents to sell cruises at the same rates overseas agents can.

 

And this is no dummy spit. The ACCC doesn't think so.

 

The law is the law. And the Federal Court didn't think it was a dummy spit when Air Asia got caught doing the same thing.

 

A $200000 fine means that the regulator and the Australian courts, not to mention the Australian Government take this very, very seriously.

 

If a small business did stuff like this they would be hauled before the courts.

 

Oh and if you're truly happy paying thousands more for the same cabin, on the same ship, on the same cruise simply because you don't live in the USA .... that's great!

 

But I'm not.

[Xcitdcruiser]

oh and if you're truly happy paying thousands more for the same cabin, on the same ship, on the same cruise simply because you don't live in the usa .... That's great!

 

But i'm not.

 

+ 1

[Aus Traveller]

Actually it's the cruise lines driving Aussies off shore to purchase from overseas agents because the fares are, in some cases up to thousands of dollars more.

 

All we are asking for is a level playing field and to allow Aussie travel agents to sell cruises at the same rates overseas agents can.

 

And this is no dummy spit. The ACCC doesn't think so.

 

The law is the law. And the Federal Court didn't think it was a dummy spit when Air Asia got caught doing the same thing.

 

A $200000 fine means that the regulator and the Australian courts, not to mention the Australian Government take this very, very seriously.

 

If a small business did stuff like this they would be hauled before the courts.

 

Oh and if you're truly happy paying thousands more for the same cabin, on the same ship, on the same cruise simply because you don't live in the USA .... that's great!

 

But I'm not.

I don't doubt the story about Air Asia and agree that they should have been fined.

 

I haven't seen any evidence of component pricing with local cruiselines. Can you quote some examples?

[iRate]

Air Asia Berhad to pay $200,000 penalty for breaching the Australian Consumer Law

The Federal Court in Melbourne has imposed a penalty of $200,000 against Air Asia Berhad for contravening the single pricing provision of the Australian Consumer Law.

 

Air Asia Berhad, for a period of 10 months, did not display on its website (http://www.airasia.com) some airfare prices inclusive of all taxes, duties, fees and other mandatory charges in a prominent way and as a single figure. The conduct was in relation to the following flights between:

 

Melbourne and Macau, London, Ho Chi Minh City, New Delhi, Hangzhou and Chengdu;

Perth and Taipei, Phuket, Osaka, London, Ho Chi Minh City, and Hangzhou; and

Gold Coast and Ho Chi Minh City.

Air Asia Berhad is a foreign corporation that carries on a business in Australia as a supplier of international air travel services to the Australian public.

 

Under section 48 of the Australian Consumer Law (ACL), businesses that choose to advertise a part of the price of a particular product or service must also prominently specify a single total price.

 

“This ACCC action vindicates the importance of all inclusive pricing. Consumers must have accurate price information, and in turn, airlines require a level playing field on price representations in this competitive industry where consumers are price sensitive,” ACCC chairman Rod Sims said.

 

His Honour Justice Tracey stated that “The principal vice to which s 48 of the ACL is directed is the seductive effect of a quoted price which is lower than the actual amount which the consumer will have to pay in order to receive the relevant service.”

 

“Unless the full price is prominently displayed the consumer may well be attracted to a transaction which he or she would not otherwise have found to be appealing and grudgingly pay the additional imposts rather than go to the trouble of withdrawing from the transaction and looking elsewhere.”

 

“The company which is seeking to attract business in contravention of s 48 will also obtain an advantage over competitors who are compliant.”

 

In addition to the penalty, Justice Tracey made a declaration by consent that Air Asia Berhad contravened section 48 of the Australian Consumer Law. Justice Tracey also accepted a court undertaking from Air Asia Berhad restraining it from engaging in similar conduct for 3 years.

[iRate]

 

This is from the Celebrity Cruises Australian based website.

 

Note the line 'Fares starting from' $979.00

 

 

As you work through the booking an inside cabin is still quoted as:

 

"Stateroom Total" $1958.00

 

 

And then magically only at the end of the process Taxes and Fees of $191.93 are added to the total. This is what is illegal.

 

Those Taxes and Fess are and were quantifiable when Celebrity quoted the initial $979.00 fare and as such they should have been included in the headline fare.

 

They were not. This is illegal and this is what the ACCC and the Federal Court consider bait advertising.

 

And it was this exact conduct that saw the Federal Court fine Air Asia $200000.

[MMDown Under]

Thank you for taking the trouble to show us examples.

 

The cruise lines and their lawyers must know that it is illegal in Australia not to advertise the total fare. It is not as if the taxes and fees are optional.

 

Note that the prepaid gratuities are optional.

[iRate]

Thank you for taking the trouble to show us examples.

 

The cruise lines and their lawyers must know that it is illegal in Australia not to advertise the total fare. It is not as if the taxes and fees are optional.

 

Note that the prepaid gratuities are optional.

 

Thanks, this has never been about the gratuities.

[The_Big_M]

Oh and if you're truly happy paying thousands more for the same cabin, on the same ship, on the same cruise simply because you don't live in the USA .... that's great!

 

That's simplistic - and not specific to cruises.

 

Prices vary region by region for a variety of reasons. Sometimes we pay less, and sometimes we pay more. If your statement was correct then everyone in the US would always pay less, but that's not true.

[iRate]

That's simplistic - and not specific to cruises.

 

Prices vary region by region for a variety of reasons. Sometimes we pay less, and sometimes we paying more. If your statement was correct then everyone in the US would always pay less, but that's not true.

 

Of course, not in every case. How ever in the vast majority of cases Australian's are pay far far more.

 

Try this:

 

Go to the Celebrity Cruises Australian website. Find a couple of cruises.

 

Note the prices for a specific class of cabin.

 

Then go back to the home page. Go to the bottom of screen where it says international gateway.

 

Change your country from Australia to USA.

 

Search for exactly the same cruises.

 

Bingo! You will in many cases, if not most, find that Celebrity slug us Aussies $400 extra per person. Equating to generally a min $800 per cabin.

 

If you think that is fair, you are entitled to that belief. I don't.

[megsie]

I just did a dummy booking as we have booked on Celebrity Solstice. The cheapest price was X dollars and then on booking this price had added gratuities - which I can decline - and then the X dollar price was broken down into cruise cost and taxes and fees which added up to the original X dollar cheapest price. I didn't think that we had paid more than the advertised original price plus gratuities when we booked some time ago. The original price had the taxes components already added to it. I'm not saying that this did not previously happen (adding extras later onto advertised price) as it did but I don't think it is happening now. Also I can understand a cheaper rate for US cruisers to come to cruise in Aus because of the additional airfares and so an attractive fare entices them to come here. But also it should be a two way stretch for us to cruise in US, paying equal at least, not more!

But there are still good bargains out there and we are now paying thousands less than we paid when we first started cruising by doing our homework and choosing the time for our cruises and the time of our bookings. The increased competition also helps.

[Kiwi Kruzer]

Port charges and taxes have never been , and will never be included in the cruise fares.

A port could easily be missed due weather, breakdown, political instability etc ?

 

Good heavens , next you will be wanting all Visas to be included in the cruise fare as well...:eek:

 

[Aus Traveller]

Port charges and taxes have never been , and will never be included in the cruise fares.

A port could easily be missed due weather, breakdown, political instability etc ?

 

Good heavens , next you will be wanting all Visas to be included in the cruise fare as well...:eek:

 

 

Is your comment tongue in cheek? (Sorry if I missed that!)

 

Port charges and taxes have been included in cruise fares in Australia since we started cruising 29 years ago.

 

We have often received an invoice that shows cruise fare + fees = total, with the 'total' being the price we were originally quoted. I have only seen a cruise fare advertised like the Celebrity example quoted on American advertising and I agree that this type of advertising is not legal in Australia.

[iRate]

Port charges and taxes have never been , and will never be included in the cruise fares.

A port could easily be missed due weather, breakdown, political instability etc ?

 

Good heavens , next you will be wanting all Visas to be included in the cruise fare as well...:eek:

 

 

In Australia it is the law.

 

Good heavens knows what you folks do in NZ - I'm only talking about Australia and here the law is very specific and it requires that if you are advertising a fare it must include all taxes and charges in the headline fare. They are not allowed to be added later.

 

It's all very clear and concise - see below.

 

From the ACCC website:

 

Under section 48 of the Australian Consumer Law (ACL), businesses that choose to advertise a part of the price of a particular product or service must also prominently specify a single total price.

 

“This ACCC action vindicates the importance of all inclusive pricing. Consumers must have accurate price information, and in turn, airlines require a level playing field on price representations in this competitive industry where consumers are price sensitive,” ACCC chairman Rod Sims said.

[iRate]

Is your comment tongue in cheek? (Sorry if I missed that!)

 

Port charges and taxes have been included in cruise fares in Australia since we started cruising 29 years ago.

 

We have often received an invoice that shows cruise fare + fees = total, with the 'total' being the price we were originally quoted. I have only seen a cruise fare advertised like the Celebrity example quoted on American advertising and I agree that this type of advertising is not legal in Australia.

 

Agreed!

[rugbypopsie]

Port charges are generally refunded if a port is missed for any reason.

 

Sue

[Kiwi Kruzer]

Port charges are generally refunded if a port is missed for any reason.

Sue

 

Exactly . Thats why they are always shown as a seperate item.

 

[GandM-nq]

 

This is from the Celebrity Cruises Australian based website.

 

Note the line 'Fares starting from' $979.00

 

 

As you work through the booking an inside cabin is still quoted as:

 

"Stateroom Total" $1958.00

 

 

And then magically only at the end of the process Taxes and Fees of $191.93 are added to the total. This is what is illegal.

 

Those Taxes and Fess are and were quantifiable when Celebrity quoted the initial $979.00 fare and as such they should have been included in the headline fare.

 

They were not. This is illegal and this is what the ACCC and the Federal Court consider bait advertising.

 

And it was this exact conduct that saw the Federal Court fine Air Asia $200000.

 

Welcome to the WWW

 

Celebrity's website is not in Australia and therefore does not have to comply with Australian consumer laws regards all inclusive pricing.

 

When you go to Celebrity's website, it will detect your IP's location then direct you to a region specific page on their international website. Whilst it may be displaying a page specific to Australian based consumers, the website itself is NOT in Australia and the website need only comply with all relevant local laws of the state/country it is based in.

 

Different to the Celebrity Cruises Travel brochure printed for the Australian market that DOES have all inclusive room prices (port fees and taxes included. Not hidden or added after).