JetBlue, WestJet shrink legroom for coach seats

[CtheW0rld]

link to the story: http://www.cnn.com/2012/08/22/travel/airline-legroom/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

[ducklite]

That was inevitable. They are adding two business/economy plus rows in the front which will be sold for a premium or given as upgrades to their most frequent flyers. That's what they need to do to capture the lucrative business traveler market. US Airways has upgraded their Embraer regionals to offer eight first class seats because they listened to their bread and butter and that's what they wanted.

 

PS--Anyone notice the photo was of a train interior, not a plane?

[Kamloops50]

Westjet is a one class airline. All seats are the same and they aren't planning on adding any business class. On Westjet you pay extra to select seats when tickets are purchased.

[ducklite]

Westjet is a one class airline. All seats are the same and they aren't planning on adding any business class. On Westjet you pay extra to select seats when tickets are purchased.

 

Go read the story.

 

Traditionally known as a leisure airline, WestJet hopes the roomier seats will attract more business travelers. It started a new Toronto to New York La Guardia route in June.

[calliopecruiser]

Westjet is a one class airline. All seats are the same and they aren't planning on adding any business class. On Westjet you pay extra to select seats when tickets are purchased.

 

Not any more.....They announced this month they were adding "premium economy" (isn't that an oxymoron?) seats: "CALGARY, Aug. 1, 2012 /CNW/ - WestJet today announced it will introduce premium economy seating across its entire fleet. The reconfiguration will introduce four rows of extra legroom seating with 36 inches of pitch and convenience features such as priority boarding as well as complimentary on-board amenities. The reconfiguration will begin in August and will be completed in December 2012. "

[Zach1213]

Not any more.....They announced this month they were adding "premium economy" (isn't that an oxymoron?) seats: "CALGARY, Aug. 1, 2012 /CNW/ - WestJet today announced it will introduce premium economy seating across its entire fleet. The reconfiguration will introduce four rows of extra legroom seating with 36 inches of pitch and convenience features such as priority boarding as well as complimentary on-board amenities. The reconfiguration will begin in August and will be completed in December 2012. "

 

Not at all. Many airlines are developing very, very nice Premium Economy products. Qantas, for example, has a fantastic one, especially on their A380 aircraft.

[FlyerTalker]

The winning line in the video is Mary Kirby, a journalist covering airline interiors, saying "Passengers are not willing to pay the true costs of airfare".

 

Remember....your behavior chasing the lowest price causes this. American's attempt at MRTC proved that the public doesn't buy air travel on value, just on price.

[CtheW0rld]

Not at all. Many airlines are developing very, very nice Premium Economy products. Qantas, for example, has a fantastic one, especially on their A380 aircraft.

 

i always try to get this class. won't pay for biz - and never have enough miles for an upgrade. the premium economy works well for me.

[world~citizen]

...American's attempt at MRTC proved that the public doesn't buy air travel on value, just on price.

 

Frequent flier miles encourage pax top stay loyal even with poor value. Its all messed up.

[ducklite]

Frequent flier miles encourage pax top stay loyal even with poor value. Its all messed up.

 

For true frequent flyers, miles are only part of the equation. First class upgrades, priority baggage handling, generous free baggage allowance, priority security and check in, free priority standby on earlier flights, the list goes on.

[CtheW0rld]

For true frequent flyers, miles are only part of the equation. First class upgrades, priority baggage handling, generous free baggage allowance, priority security and check in, free priority standby on earlier flights, the list goes on.

 

those are things the occassional leisure traveler never get, though.

[Ashland]

Next change will be all economy seats will be of the "saddle" type. :eek:

 

Google this if you don't know what I'm referring to. :D

[FlyerTalker]

those are things the occassional leisure traveler never get, though.

Which makes the whole "price first" thought process even more unfathomable. If you can't get those other items, what could you get by buying from AA....more room!! But when given that option, the masses would rather save a buck and then gripe.

[CtheW0rld]

Which makes the whole "price first" thought process even more unfathomable. If you can't get those other items, what could you get by buying from AA....more room!! But when given that option, the masses would rather save a buck and then gripe.

 

i agree. when i book flights anymore, i look specifically at options that do have the premium economy (or whatever they call it) available. on a recent flight to beijing, i opted to pay for a bulkhead row - $120 each way, but well worth the extra space.

 

the only time i had been able to affor biz class was on maxjet. it was a delight.

[calliopecruiser]

i agree. when i book flights anymore, i look specifically at options that do have the premium economy (or whatever they call it) available. on a recent flight to beijing, i opted to pay for a bulkhead row - $120 each way, but well worth the extra space.

 

the only time i had been able to affor biz class was on maxjet. it was a delight.

 

When I had to work out a flight to San Antonio, I spent an hour on the internet checking all the different connections on different airlines to find the planes with the most room (even an extra 1-1.5 inch width makes a difference to me - I don't have long legs, but I do have wide ones). That website was very helpful, and I flew in (relative) comfort by changing my routing at bit.

[Zach1213]

those are things the occassional leisure traveler never get, though.

It really depends. Let's say you live in Boston, and want to take a cruise out of Sydney. You book on AA/Qantas (booked via AA.com) the whole way there and back - let's say BOS-ORD-LAX-SYD. You've just earned 20,198 miles. Now, let's say you visit your grandkids in Seattle for Thanksgiving and have realized that, should you also book your flight on AA, you will get 5,174 miles for that roundtrip.

 

Boom - you're at 25,372 after two trips, which gets your Gold status on AA, which gets you free bags, a little better seat selection, better standby options. Sure, one of those trips was long, but there are plenty of people on Cruise Critic doing an Australian or Asian cruise and than one (just one) trip to visit the kids or grandkids in the same year, so it's not unrealistic.

 

Getting status isn't as difficult as many people think it is. If you're just doing a few shorter trips, or even a Europe trip, it might not be plausible. However, loyalty to one airline/alliance for the purpose of gaining status is not terribly difficult.

[em-sk]

Not any more.....They announced this month they were adding "premium economy" (isn't that an oxymoron?) seats: "CALGARY, Aug. 1, 2012 /CNW/ - WestJet today announced it will introduce premium economy seating across its entire fleet. The reconfiguration will introduce four rows of extra legroom seating with 36 inches of pitch and convenience features such as priority boarding as well as complimentary on-board amenities. The reconfiguration will begin in August and will be completed in December 2012. "

 

The premium economy sounds like it is going to be on the same scale as business class in contenental europe.

 

Good move as KLM, British Airways, Cathay Pacific, American and Delta are now codesharing on Westjet and that provides a way of WestJet handling the business/first class transfer passangers.

[Gloria Mundi]

those are things the occassional leisure traveler never gets, though.

 

Nah, "loyalty" can usually be bought. I have Lifetime Gold on AA, but of course it did nothing for us when we flew to Charlotte on USAirways (the only nonstops) last weekend. We had carry-on only. I spent $50 total to get DH an aisle seat in both directions, which served the dual purpose of getting him a more comfortable seat for his 6'2" frame, and getting him priority boarding (Zone 2), thus assuring room in the overhead for our one rollaboard. I could have spent $15 for early boarding, but didn't need it. There are also some perks if you get their credit card (which they made sure we knew as they tried to get us to sign up).

 

Just takes a little research and a few more bucks.

[ducklite]

Nah, "loyalty" can usually be bought. I have Lifetime Gold on AA, but of course it did nothing for us when we flew to Charlotte on USAirways (the only nonstops) last weekend. We had carry-on only. I spent $50 total to get DH an aisle seat in both directions, which served the dual purpose of getting him a more comfortable seat for his 6'2" frame, and getting him priority boarding (Zone 2), thus assuring room in the overhead for our one rollaboard. I could have spent $15 for early boarding, but didn't need it. There are also some perks if you get their credit card (which they made sure we knew as they tried to get us to sign up).

 

Just takes a little research and a few more bucks.

 

I wouldn't call any of those true "loyalty" perks.

 

Loyalty perks are things like a dedicated phone line for the top tier elites that is synched to your cell phone so they know who they are speaking with when they answer on the first ring and will work with you to get you rerouted to a flight that will get you in only 30 minutes later than your original scheduled time after your flight is cancelled for a mechanical problem the day before Thanksgiving while the rest of the plane is queuing up for customer service to get a standby ticket on a flight three days later.

 

You can't buy those types of benefits.

 

And the US airways credit card perks aren't anything special. A one time use club pass for the cardholder only, a companion fare coupon with so many restrictions that it's difficult to use, and zone 2 boarding which anyone can get if they book a seat in the first eight or so rows of coach.

[Gloria Mundi]

Loyalty perks are things like a dedicated phone line for the top tier elites that is synched to your cell phone so they know who they are speaking with when they answer on the first ring and will work with you to get you rerouted to a flight that will get you in only 30 minutes later than your original scheduled time after your flight is cancelled for a mechanical problem the day before Thanksgiving while the rest of the plane is queuing up for customer service to get a standby ticket on a flight three days later.

<snip>

 

I agree- I've never been in those exalted ranks (closest I got was a couple of years Platinum on AA) but a colleague has/had that relationship with UA and he swore they took care of him no matter what. Haven't asked how it's going since the merger.

 

Another example of a no-status working the system, though. DH and I flew DL to Edinburgh when he was having some back problems and REALLY needed an aisle seat so he could stretch out. We booked through Orbitz because for some reason Orbitz was $200/person cheaper than DL's site and our seat choices were ignored. "Seat assignment at airport" according to DL's site. I had to call and beg and plead a couple of times before they assigned him an aisle seat. Our flight from home to JFK got diverted to Cincinnati. We bypassed a long, slow Customer Service line (4 staff, one of whom was trying to rebook a couple through Zurich to Africa) and used my PriorityPass to get into the Delta lounge. (Back then it was accepted at all DL lounges.) The staff there found that DH's seat assignment from JFK to EDI had been trashed (even though it was our original flight) and put us in an Exit row, with DH in the aisle seat. I have NO idea who got bumped out of that Exit row. I still feel a little guilty.:o

 

Gotta work the system.

[Jade13]

I wouldn't call any of those true "loyalty" perks.

 

Loyalty perks are things like a dedicated phone line for the top tier elites that is synched to your cell phone so they know who they are speaking with when they answer on the first ring and will work with you to get you rerouted to a flight that will get you in only 30 minutes later than your original scheduled time after your flight is cancelled for a mechanical problem the day before Thanksgiving while the rest of the plane is queuing up for customer service to get a standby ticket on a flight three days later.

 

You can't buy those types of benefits.

 

And the US airways credit card perks aren't anything special. A one time use club pass for the cardholder only, a companion fare coupon with so many restrictions that it's difficult to use, and zone 2 boarding which anyone can get if they book a seat in the first eight or so rows of coach.

 

Unless there was just a change, the pass is good for the card holder and traveling companion. But you are right. We have thrown out those passes the past couple of years. We try not to hang around the airports.

[Gloria Mundi]

We have thrown out those passes the past couple of years. We try not to hang around the airports.

 

You don't have a lot of connections, do you? :D DH and I got a couple of free AA passes and used them at DFW while flyng home from our last cruise. I tend to schedule long layovers because I don't trust the airlines to make shorter connection times. And when things go wrong and you're at the airport for hours, the airline club can be an island of relative calm. I get your point, though- I now have PriorityPass that comes free with a Hilton AE Surpass card and we have to pay $28 pp for each Club use, so we don't use it unless we've got a few hours to kill. It is good to get away from the beeping carts and the "retail space".

[world~citizen]

...the only time i had been able to affor biz class was on maxjet. it was a delight.

 

Maxjet and EOS...those were the days.

 

We LOVED EOS.

 

That was one classy airline.

 

OK, thread drift over.