So, when should you use points or miles for a flight

[Hawaiidan]

I have seen a lot of people asking this or saying they will get a free flight using miles. Do they?

 

NO, in fact using your milage is only an advantage in flying international first class or Business. Domestic flights in either coach or first class will always cost more in $ miles than if you paid in cash. The one exception is one way and short notice flights less than 21 days.

 

First concept is that your miles cost you 3.5 cents each. Thats money you paid to aquire them...real money..your money; they are not free in the least.

 

Here are some examples: Denver to Hawai iRT in coach costs a low of $650 to 1000. depending on the season. However it costs 40,000 miles min for the "free" ticket" That free ticket cost you, real money, $1400 that you paid to aquire those miles. So depending on when you went you paid between $400 to $750 more:eek: for the ticket than you could have bought it for with cash.

 

Better in domestic first? NO way.

Denver to Hawaii is $2650. with cash.. But it is 80,000 to 100,000 miles So between $2800 and $3500 with miles for than $2650 ticket:eek: you lost between $150 to$ 950 if you used miles

 

However flying Business Hawaii to say Frankfurt will set cost you about $62 00 Rt with cash or 115,000 miles $4025. a savings of $2175 using miles. The savings for first are over 3 times that.:D

 

Lesson: Dont use miles for tickets that cost less than your paying with miles. The miles are never free. They cost you real money.

Second, dont be in an allfired rush to spend them ..save for big international trips where the standards of comfort and service are out of this world. Do the math first

[eandj]

We use flier miles that my husband earns from flights he does for his job. A few flights to China and Europe will cover our vacation flights at no cost. ;)

 

I understand your numbers tho.

[Hoon]

Where did you come up with this cost per mile? I have used FF miles and CC miles for travel for 30 years. A first/business seat from my home to Seattle cost $2000. FF miles cost 80000. Using your $0.035 cost is $2800. I don't remember ever paying for the mileage, either FF or CC other than yearly fee. If your talking about interest, then that's a cost of you using there money, not the cost of the milage.

[lka1012]

Most times I use the combination of Pay and Miles. That knocks some off the airfare. I also use points for my pre and post hotel stays.

 

But now I am saving my miles because I want to do the 18 day Hawaii round trip from San Diego in Jan 14. I want to upgrade to first class because I get three suitcases at 70 lbs each.

 

I earn most of my miles by going to the airline site first then connecting from their skymiles site to earn points per dollar spent. (I should get almost 3000 miles on my new daybed.) Anything that I buy on line, I go through them especially things I use all the time such as diabetes supplies or doggie stuff.

[CtheW0rld]

Most times I use the combination of Pay and Miles. That knocks some off the airfare. I also use points for my pre and post hotel stays.

 

But now I am saving my miles because I want to do the 18 day Hawaii round trip from San Diego in Jan 14. I want to upgrade to first class because I get three suitcases at 70 lbs each.

 

I earn most of my miles by going to the airline site first then connecting from their skymiles site to earn points per dollar spent. (I should get almost 3000 miles on my new daybed.) Anything that I buy on line, I go through them especially things I use all the time such as diabetes supplies or doggie stuff.

 

are you planning on jumping ship in hawaii? 210 pounds of luggage? what are you taking? :eek:

[Hawaiidan]

If you get miles from flights tht someone else bought it dosen't matter.

While you got the miles at no cost, they each have an intrisic value for real money. It is no different than getting a cash bonus from work.

 

You can blow it on worthless things or pay top dollar for something or you can use the money carefully and get the most advantage from it.

 

The concept is miles, no matter how you get them are worth $$$$$$ to you. You can thus pay Rolex price for a Timex, or Pay a Timex price for a Rolex. Thats my point, seeing that you get the most for your money

 

For 140,000 miles you can fly 3. times to Hawaii from NY. It would have cost you $3000. Using miles however it cost you $ 4900 ! +$1900 more

However using the same miles ($4900 value) gets you a $16,000 first class ticket Hawaii to Rome ( in a bed). you saved over $11,000, had you not squandered the miles on over priced domestic

[Hawaiidan]

Where did you come up with this cost per mile? I have used FF miles and CC miles for travel for 30 years. A first/business seat from my home to Seattle cost $2000. FF miles cost 80000. Using your $0.035 cost is $2800. I don't remember ever paying for the mileage, either FF or CC other than yearly fee. If your talking about interest, then that's a cost of you using there money, not the cost of the milage.

 

Thats the point you did not consider the money you spent to aquire the mile or point. You did pay and you paid a lot for the miles you earned, you just maybe never looked at it that way. My point is maybe you should.

 

Its like saying you got money back on your taxes... No you did not, it was already your money that the government sent back.

 

If you go to United you can buy miles at the rate of 3.5 cents @ in blocks of 10,000. Thats the cheapest rate and the one I use

But consider that it costs me $600 to fly Hawaii to LAX coach and I earn 5010 miles. In that case those miles cost me 11.97 cents !

[kazu]

With all due respect HawaiiDan, I have to strongly disagree with you.

 

We are using FF miles to get home from Heathrow next year.

 

The flight cost (business class) would have been over $12,000 for the two of us (remember this is one way). I used 120,000 miles to secure the seats and am one happy camper:D

 

The taxes charged are irrelevant as I would have to pay them whether i booked the flight or used my FF miles.

 

Since spending a $ gives me a mile, I think I got a pretty fair deal.

 

You can disagree all you want - but we like business class over the pond and one way is a very expensive way to go. Using my FF miles saved our bacon (again - we have done this three times:)) JMO

 

Oh by the way, all the luggage is free of course:D

 

I believe that is around 10 cents per mile? it's fine with me - I would never accumlated enough money on a cash back card to pull this off!

[Krazy Kruizers]

We use our AMEX Plat cards to pay for everything.

What ever points we get there and for flying different airlines -- we convert them to Hilton points and stay at hotels for free. Rarely do we pay for a hotel.

[iancal]

....and use your hotel points for European hotels.

[Typhoon1]

Many airlines are now using points to redeem award travel.

 

I normally go for the best fares with my points. I would sooner buy a trip that uses 15,000 points than one that uses 25,000 and is a shorter distance.

[Hawaiidan]

With all due respect HawaiiDan, I have to strongly disagree with you.

 

We are using FF miles to get home from Heathrow next year.

 

The flight cost (business class) would have been over $12,000 for the two of us (remember this is one way). I used 120,000 miles to secure the seats and am one happy camper:D

 

The taxes charged are irrelevant as I would have to pay them whether i booked the flight or used my FF miles.

 

Since spending a $ gives me a mile, I think I got a pretty fair deal.

 

You can disagree all you want - but we like business class over the pond and one way is a very expensive way to go. Using my FF miles saved our bacon (again - we have done this three times:)) JMO

 

Oh by the way, all the luggage is free of course:D

 

I believe that is around 10 cents per mile? it's fine with me - I would never accumlated enough money on a cash back card to pull this off!

 

 

 

I am totaly confused KAzu...you are totaly in agreement with what I was trying to say...

Thank you, . :D

 

Your 120,000 miles @3.5 cents is $4200.... and you got $12,000 tickets with it and saved $7800 ! You took both an international flight in Business and a one way!!!. Exactly what I was touting. And you saved massively. How could I ever argue otherwise!:eek: Are you shure you read my post correctly?

 

I dont fly out of England , I take the Eurostar over to FRA or CDG and pay an airport tax of about$ 115... not the Heathtow $300.00 pp

 

y

[Hawaiidan]

The mile or point or whatever that you Pay $1.00 for has a net value to you of about 3.5 cents according to the UAL site. The spending of that 3.5 cents per point/mile is what I look at. Not the dollar cost to earn the point. I only consider the net value of my accrued miles and how to spend them the wisest way...like Kazu did.:D

 

Spending 120,000 miles does not equate to spending $120,000. for the ticket at all. only the $ 4200.00 net net value you earned.

There is no way a cash back card can even come close.

 

as to hotels... remember the 3.5 cents x the miles and see what you are really paying for the room. Most times airline miles are best used on airlines you earned them on. Hotel points for the hotel not an airline.

[kazu]

I am totaly confused KAzu...you are totaly in agreement with what I was trying to say...

Thank you, . :D

 

Your 120,000 miles @3.5 cents is $4200.... and you got $12,000 tickets with it and saved $7800 ! You took both an international flight in Business and a one way!!!. Exactly what I was touting. And you saved massively. How could I ever argue otherwise!:eek: Are you shure you read my post correctly?

 

I dont fly out of England , I take the Eurostar over to FRA or CDG and pay an airport tax of about$ 115... not the Heathtow $300.00 pp

 

y

 

yes I totally agree with what you were saying as far as business class - but I don't get the math calculation? anyways, it doesn't matter.

 

I know what it cost me to earn those points and that for me is the bottom line.

 

We have no choice but to fly out of England - we land in Tilbury and no the last thing DH wants is to take a train someplace else - we'll pay the piper to fly out of London for the sake of the convenience and getting home.

 

Smooth seas:)

[MightyQuinn]

We also don't waste precious FF miles on domestic flights. We recently cashed in 84,000 FF miles pp to fly one-way business class to Osaka. Retail price of the ticket is $7270 pp. We would have preferred AC flights but decided to go UA. Flight schedules were better and we saved on tax/fees, which all up are only $62 pp. AC flights had a very hefty surcharge.

[kazu]

We also don't waste precious FF miles on domestic flights. We recently cashed in 84,000 FF miles pp to fly one-way business class to Osaka. Retail price of the ticket is $7270 pp. We would have preferred AC flights but decided to go UA. Flight schedules were better and we saved on tax/fees, which all up are only $62 pp. AC flights had a very hefty surcharge.

 

they always seem to do :rolleyes: since we have to do a puddle hopper to get anywhere with AC - we don't have a lot of choice;)

[Big Dawg CC]

I think you are forgetting that some miles are, in fact, free (e.g., the 50,000 free miles on UAL that both my wife and I received in February - a total of 100,000 - for using the United Explorer card just once - annual fee waived for year one; the 50,000 Ultimate Rewards from our Chase Sapphire - convertible, if you like, into 50,000 UAL miles - that both my wife and I received in May and June - a total of an additional 100,000 - for purchasing $3,000 (stuff we would have already needed to purchase) - annual fee waived for year one, the 25,000 Ultimate Rewards from my Chase Ink Bold - convertible, if you like, into 25,000 UAL miles - that I received in August for using the card just once - annual fee waived for year one). So, in 2012, the equivalent of 225,000 free miles on UAL.

 

I think your real point is that there is a highest and best use for miles, for which I agree. There are other considerations, however, such as mile expiration dates, etc., that may force your hand.

[cruzn single]

I am a little confused on this. We use our Hawaiian CC to charge everything, and pay it off entirely each month. Get 1 mile per $1 spent. We are going to Hawaii this year and only paying for 1 one-way ticket. Don't see where it is costing me, as I am spending the money for groceries, gasoline, etc. and paying the bill in full. Specifically got this particular CC because we go to Hawaii annually, and never feel that miles are costing me anything because I have to pay for groceries, gasoline, etc.

 

So, still confused! I could use another CC, but why-when I fly for 17,500 miles on each leg of the trip. 35,000 for round trip. Had enough miles for 1 round-trip, 1 one-way, and only paid for 1 one-way!!!!!!

[DizzyDallasDi]

Hello, my name is Diane and I'm a spoiled rotten first class snob. :cool:

 

If my flight is longer than 1.5 hrs., you'll find me in the first row purchased with miles. I don't care how much I had to pay to earn those miles and I don't have the patience or inclination to pull out the calculator. All I care about is my comfort and satisfaction. If I have the miles, I'll spend them when and where I want. :D

[itzmered]

So If I pay 40,000 miles for my ticket does that mean it really cost me 40,000 dollars for my ticket and the items I originally bought with my credit card to get the miles were free I was just buying an airline ticket ;)

[DizzyDallasDi]

So If I pay 40,000 miles for my ticket does that mean it really cost me 40,000 dollars for my ticket and the items I originally bought with my credit card to get the miles were free I was just buying an airline ticket ;)

 

Well, that's one way of looking at it. But I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. :D

[RuthC]

Hello, my name is Diane and I'm a spoiled rotten first class snob. :cool:

 

If my flight is longer than 1.5 hrs., you'll find me in the first row purchased with miles. I don't care how much I had to pay to earn those miles and I don't have the patience or inclination to pull out the calculator. All I care about is my comfort and satisfaction. If I have the miles, I'll spend them when and where I want. :D

This calls for a "like" button. (and I don't even like "like" buttons.)

[Valley Girl of VA]

Dan,

I understand what you are saying. That is why I fly economy domestically so I can get more miles and try for elite status. For our cruise out of Sydney, we are flying Asiana in Business Class (part of the Star Alliance). I add to my miles and points through the various offers that the credit cards have as well as shopping at their portals so get 2X, 3X or more points per mile.

 

Jane

[DizzyDallasDi]

This calls for a "like" button. (and I don't even like "like" buttons.)

 

I like that you liked it. :)

[Hawaiidan]

So If I pay 40,000 miles for my ticket does that mean it really cost me 40,000 dollars for my ticket and the items I originally bought with my credit card to get the miles were free I was just buying an airline ticket ;)

 

 

Please read what I have said. That for every 1$ you spend you earn 1 mile or point. That poimnt/mile is worth a net/net value of 3.5 cents.

It is totaly non-dependent on what you , in fact, paid for the mile or point

Whether you got 1 mile per dollar or 10 is not material.

What is material is that whatever mile or point you thus get is worth $0.035 on the average.

 

So, when you spend 40,000 miles or points you spend 40,000 miles

x 0.035 =1400

Whether you got them as a promotion, or from purchase. or from you aunt Minny, it makes no difference. It is pure and simple, what the value of that mile or point , and what is its actural cash value....

 

What is material is that each mile/point is worth a specific value. To spend that value wildly and without understanding, is not wise.

 

Again, you can buy a Timex for a Rolex price thinking its a free thing; or you can buy a Rolex for the price of a Timex by understanding the principal.:cool: