So frustrated! Passport issues

[elektrawmn]

According to NCL, we are not REQUIRED to have passports for our upcoming Western Caribbean cruise. We just would feel better having them so I got mine renewed and my husband applied for his.

 

He currently doesn't have a valid license and only a state issued ID. Just got a letter from the Dept of State saying that his ID is not good enough. He NOW has to submit at LEAST 5 pieces of documentation OVER 5 YEARS OLD to prove his identity. :eek: They are asking for yearbook/newspaper pictures, school records, immunization records.... not to mention listing EVERY place he's ever worked, every school he's been to and detailed information about myself and all his family members.

 

This is so crazy. I did some checking online and discovered that the Dept of State form is not even LEGAL according to their own laws! What a mess!

[YubaSutter]

Did you have a question you need answered or are you just venting?

[elektrawmn]

LOL Sorry.. Went off on a tangent.

 

Was wondering if anyone had to fill out the Supplemental Worksheet and how long it takes to get processed from that point.

 

And also, has anyone been denied for insufficient paperwork?

[Keith1010]

At least the good news is that you don't have to have a passport for your cruise so if something goes wrong you have a fall back plan.

 

Keith

[sail7seas]

I would suggest contacting your Congressman or Senator's office for assistance. They help with issues such as this.

[paul929207]

LOL Sorry.. Went off on a tangent.

 

Was wondering if anyone had to fill out the Supplemental Worksheet and how long it takes to get processed from that point.

 

And also, has anyone been denied for insufficient paperwork?

That's OK. We all need to vent every now and then. Good luck.

[paul929207]

At least the good news is that you don't have to have a passport for your cruise so if something goes wrong you have a fall back plan.

 

Keith

OP says that NCL is requiring a passport.

[uppitycats]

OP says that NCL is requiring a passport.

 

 

Re-read the original post. == NCL is NOT requiring it.

 

Yes, talk to your senator/congressman. They can expedite this sometimes.

[xxoocruiser]

According to NCL, we are not REQUIRED to have passports for our upcoming Western Caribbean cruise. We just would feel better having them so I got mine renewed and my husband applied for his.

 

He currently doesn't have a valid license and only a state issued ID. Just got a letter from the Dept of State saying that his ID is not good enough. He NOW has to submit at LEAST 5 pieces of documentation OVER 5 YEARS OLD to prove his identity. :eek: They are asking for yearbook/newspaper pictures, school records, immunization records.... not to mention listing EVERY place he's ever worked, every school he's been to and detailed information about myself and all his family members.

 

This is so crazy. I did some checking online and discovered that the Dept of State form is not even LEGAL according to their own laws! What a mess!

 

 

 

A state ID nor a state issued drivers license is not proof of citizenship. The "Secondary Evidence of US Citizenship" ( or the supplemental worksheet) information that the US Passport Agency has now requested is because there is something wrong or missing from the documentation that was originally submitted as proof of US Citizenship. Suggest you read through the Passport Agency website for complete understanding of the process. http://travel.state.gov/passport/get/secondary_evidence/secondary_evidence_4315.html

[notentirelynormal]

LOL Sorry.. Went off on a tangent.

 

Was wondering if anyone had to fill out the Supplemental Worksheet and how long it takes to get processed from that point.

 

And also, has anyone been denied for insufficient paperwork?

 

While not entirely the same issue as yours: My SIL applied for his passport and it seemed to take a lot longer then it should. He finally called to see what was up. There were two issues. The first was he had an old State Department security clearance on his name that had not been cleared off.

 

The second one though was funny. They asked him if he was adopted, which was the main reason for the passport hold up. "Umm, no I'm not" he says. He is from Mexican descent but his grandparents, parents and he were born in the US so when he filled in the form and they asked his ethnicity he put Hispanic. Well, it turns out that his birth certificate says he was "white". So he calls his mom and says "what's up with that?!" It turns out when he was born (40 years ago) that you only had the option of picking black or white so she chose white. Yes, we still kid him about it.

[paul929207]

At least the good news is that you don't have to have a passport for your cruise so if something goes wrong you have a fall back plan.

 

Keith

Sorry Keith, I mis-read the original post

[mapsmith]

According to NCL, we are not REQUIRED to have passports for our upcoming Western Caribbean cruise. We just would feel better having them so I got mine renewed and my husband applied for his.

 

He currently doesn't have a valid license and only a state issued ID. Just got a letter from the Dept of State saying that his ID is not good enough. He NOW has to submit at LEAST 5 pieces of documentation OVER 5 YEARS OLD to prove his identity. :eek: They are asking for yearbook/newspaper pictures, school records, immunization records.... not to mention listing EVERY place he's ever worked, every school he's been to and detailed information about myself and all his family members.

 

This is so crazy. I did some checking online and discovered that the Dept of State form is not even LEGAL according to their own laws! What a mess!

 

 

 

 

Does he have an "Invalid License" or one that was expired (or suspended)? Even if expired it does verify citizenship and should work. Probably easier than the State ID.

[SadieN]

Does he have an "Invalid License" or one that was expired (or suspended)? Even if expired it does verify citizenship and should work. Probably easier than the State ID.

 

Probably depends on which state they live in. A CA ID or DL does not prove citizenship.

 

Both DDs used their CA ID as picture IDs when getting their first passports when they were younger.

 

OP--continue on with the passport paperwork and get hubby a new copy of his BC for the cruise.

[xxoocruiser]

Does he have an "Invalid License" or one that was expired (or suspended)? Even if expired it does verify citizenship and should work. Probably easier than the State ID.

 

 

Drivers Licenses ARE NOT PROOF OF US Citizenship .

 

State licences (regardless of the state) can be issued to any Non-US Citizen that has Permanent Residency status therefore disqualifiing a DL as legal proof of US Citizenship. It can only be used as a governement issued photo ID and not proof of US Citizenship. That's what a birth certificate is used for and in the event that a there's an issue with the Birth certificate than the person appyling has to provide Secondary Evidence of US Citizenship. The OP has not fully disclosed the entire problem or is mistaken as to the reason why the supplemental information has been requested. She's under the impression that it's because her husband does not have DL which is why she believes US citizenship is being questioned.

[sail7seas]

 

<snip>

 

 

He currently doesn't have a valid license and only a state issued ID. Just got a letter from the Dept of State saying that his ID is not good enough. He NOW has to submit at LEAST 5 pieces of documentation OVER 5 YEARS OLD to prove his identity. :eek: They are asking for yearbook/newspaper pictures, school records, immunization records.... not to mention listing EVERY place he's ever worked, every school he's been to and detailed information about myself and all his family members.

 

This is so crazy. I did some checking online and discovered that the Dept of State form is not even LEGAL according to their own laws! What a mess!

 

 

The part of this quote listing documentation Dept of State is requesting is confusing to me.

 

Why would a photo of a bride, for example, published in a newspaper say anything about them being U.S. citizens eligible for a U.S. passport? Why would a photo in a yearbook? Don't we read in the newspapers all the time about non-citizens attending public schools in (some) states? Just because there is a photo in a yearbook does not mean they are U.S. citizens.

 

Why would a state issued photo ID not be just as good?

 

I admit I know little to nothing about Immigration etc but these two questions puzzle me.

 

Thanks someone who can clarify.

 

[njhorseman]

The part of this quote listing documentation Dept of State is requesting is confusing to me.

 

Why would a photo of a bride, for example, published in a newspaper say anything about them being U.S. citizens eligible for a U.S. passport? Why would a photo in a yearbook? Don't we read in the newspapers all the time about non-citizens attending public schools in (some) states? Just because there is a photo in a yearbook does not mean they are U.S. citizens.

 

Why would a state issued photo ID not be just as good?

 

I admit I know little to nothing about Immigration etc but these two questions puzzle me.

 

Thanks someone who can clarify.

 

 

They're asking for additional proof of identity, not proof of citizenship. When you present your proof of citizenship such as a birth certificate or certificate of naturalization when applying for a passport you still have to present proof of identity...which for most people will be a valid drivers license.

[Dayenu]

According to NCL, we are not REQUIRED to have passports for our upcoming Western Caribbean cruise. We just would feel better having them so I got mine renewed and my husband applied for his.

 

He currently doesn't have a valid license and only a state issued ID. Just got a letter from the Dept of State saying that his ID is not good enough. He NOW has to submit at LEAST 5 pieces of documentation OVER 5 YEARS OLD to prove his identity. :eek: They are asking for yearbook/newspaper pictures, school records, immunization records.... not to mention listing EVERY place he's ever worked, every school he's been to and detailed information about myself and all his family members.

 

This is so crazy. I did some checking online and discovered that the Dept of State form is not even LEGAL according to their own laws! What a mess!

 

I am sorry for your husband's troubles, but there is certainly something else going on with his ID. My husband never had a driver's license, only State issued ID (from DMV) - and this was not an issue in getting his first passport and later renewal of it. And we are emigrants (legal!!).

[sail7seas]

They're asking for additional proof of identity, not proof of citizenship. When you present your proof of citizenship such as a birth certificate or certificate of naturalization when applying for a passport you still have to present proof of identity...which for most people will be a valid drivers license.

 

 

Thanks.

 

OP....... Hope your DH works this out and gets his Passport. :)

 

[Treven]

When I applied for my first passport I supplied a copy of my birth certificate which has a different name than the one I use as an adult. So I too had to show that I had been using the "adult name" for at least 5 years. So I provided employment check stubs, a membership with National Geographic, a copy of both Social Security Cards, showing both names with the same Social Security number.

 

So there are different reasons for the passport folks to question applications. It's really no big deal, just go with the flow and he'll have his passport in due time.

[cruiseco]

The part of this quote listing documentation Dept of State is requesting is confusing to me.

 

Why would a photo of a bride, for example, published in a newspaper say anything about them being U.S. citizens eligible for a U.S. passport? Why would a photo in a yearbook? Don't we read in the newspapers all the time about non-citizens attending public schools in (some) states? Just because there is a photo in a yearbook does not mean they are U.S. citizens.

 

Why would a state issued photo ID not be just as good?

 

I admit I know little to nothing about Immigration etc but these two questions puzzle me.

 

Thanks someone who can clarify.

 

 

Years ago (pre- 9/11) we had a client that needed a passport for a cruise. She was born in Oklahoma in the Dust Bowl years at home (no hospital records) and the county courthouse burned down in the 40's (no birth certificate). She had never worked outside the home, only as a caretaker for her own mother and other relatives (no SS#) and had never learned to drive (no DL#). Never married -- no marriage certificate.Basically all she had was the family bible with her birth recorded there. We sent her to our local Congressman's office, they had her round up as many old school records as she could come up with and some letters from family and friends stating they had known her for 50+ years and she got her passport in about a month. The staff also got her a SS#.

 

I guess there still could be situations where an adult can live his/her life with basically no official record of even being alive, much less a US citizen, but it's got to be pretty rare.

[SusanSmithJr]

I lived "off the grid" for more than a few years. The passport office did not accpt my first application, early this year. I was required to submit all kinds of additional supporting evidence as to my idenity. Even after getting the request, taking two weeks to gather the documents, snail-mailing everything, I got my shiney new passport in under the time the PP office initially estimated (4-6 weeks?). I fretted and checked the website every few hours for updates (waste of time there), and it came without fanfare.

 

My advice, just comply with requests, be super polite, and don't worry.:)

[Donray]

This is so crazy. I did some checking online and discovered that the Dept of State form is not even LEGAL according to their own laws! What a mess!

 

What is not legal about the form?

[elektrawmn]

What is not legal about the form?

 

Aside from the general problem of denying these people passports and the right to travel, the particular problem is that the current Supplemental Worksheet, despite already being in use and having been in use for years, has no OMB (Office of Management and Budget) “control number”.

 

The absence of an OMB control number is conclusive evidence that the Supplemental Worksheet hasn’t gone through the process of public comment, submission to OMB, and OMB approval now being undertaken for its proposed successor, Form DS-5513.

 

So what? Under the Paperwork Reduction Act of 1980 (44 U.S.C. 3501 et seq.), any “answers to identical questions posed to … ten or more persons” by any Federal agency must be approved in advance by OMB, and any form used for such an information collection must include a valid OMB control number showing that it has been so approved.

 

And if it doesn’t have an OMB control number? According to 44 U.S.C. 3512:

 

(a) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, no person shall be subject to any penalty for failing to comply with a collection of information that is subject to this subchapter if–

 

(1) the collection of information does not display a valid control number assigned by the Director [of OMB] in accordance with this subchapter; or

 

(2) the agency fails to inform the person who is to respond to the collection of information that such person is not required to respond to the collection of information unless it displays a valid control number.

 

(b) The protection provided by this section may be raised in the form of a complete defense, bar, or otherwise at any time during the agency administrative process or judicial action applicable thereto.

 

That means that:

 

All use of the current Supplemental Worksheet is in violation of the Paperwork Reduction Act.

Anyone who is given, or who has been given, the Supplemental Worksheet (or any other form without an OMB control number) has an absolute right to decline to provide any answers. They could also report the officer who gives them to form to the State Department Office of the Inspector General for violation of the Paperwork Reduction Act.

Absolutely no penalty (including denial of a passport, denial of permission to travel, or interference with the right to travel) can legally be imposed on anyone for declining to provide any information requested on the Supplemental Worksheet.

[elektrawmn]

Does he have an "Invalid License" or one that was expired (or suspended)? Even if expired it does verify citizenship and should work. Probably easier than the State ID.

 

That's the problem. It's suspended. When it's suspended here, you have to turn it in.

 

They have just redone our State laws regarding ID and Drivers License. You have to provide more than just the basic now... it's a really painful process even to renew.

 

I just think the person at the post office should have said "this isn't going to work"... at that point *I* could have signed an Affidavit of Knowledge and shown my own passport. Unfortunately, that won't work now.

 

Thanks for all your comments and suggestions.

[mapsmith]

That's the problem. It's suspended. When it's suspended here, you have to turn it in.

 

They have just redone our State laws regarding ID and Drivers License. You have to provide more than just the basic now... it's a really painful process even to renew.

 

I just think the person at the post office should have said "this isn't going to work"... at that point *I* could have signed an Affidavit of Knowledge and shown my own passport. Unfortunately, that won't work now.

 

Thanks for all your comments and suggestions.

 

You might try sending in the Court Order of Suspension with the State ID?