So frustrated! Passport issues

[JLC@SD]

According to NCL, we are not REQUIRED to have passports for our upcoming Western Caribbean cruise. We just would feel better having them so I got mine renewed and my husband applied for his.

 

He currently doesn't have a valid license and only a state issued ID. Just got a letter from the Dept of State saying that his ID is not good enough. He NOW has to submit at LEAST 5 pieces of documentation OVER 5 YEARS OLD to prove his identity. :eek: They are asking for yearbook/newspaper pictures, school records, immunization records.... not to mention listing EVERY place he's ever worked, every school he's been to and detailed information about myself and all his family members.

 

This is so crazy. I did some checking online and discovered that the Dept of State form is not even LEGAL according to their own laws! What a mess!

:confused: ..... usually ......passports are obtained with birth certificates ....why doesn't he submit that ......

[Essiesmom]

:confused: ..... usually ......passports are obtained with birth certificates ....why doesn't he submit that ......

 

Did you read the whole thread??? He did submit the BC. It is ID that proves he is the person on the BC that he is lacking. EM

[rvsullivan]

Aside from the general problem of denying these people passports and the right to travel, the particular problem is that the current Supplemental Worksheet, despite already being in use and having been in use for years, has no OMB (Office of Management and Budget) “control number”.

 

The absence of an OMB control number is conclusive evidence that the Supplemental Worksheet hasn’t gone through the process of public comment, submission to OMB, and OMB approval now being undertaken for its proposed successor, Form DS-5513.

 

So what? Under the Paperwork Reduction Act of 1980 (44 U.S.C. 3501 et seq.), any “answers to identical questions posed to … ten or more persons” by any Federal agency must be approved in advance by OMB, and any form used for such an information collection must include a valid OMB control number showing that it has been so approved.

 

And if it doesn’t have an OMB control number? According to 44 U.S.C. 3512:

 

(a) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, no person shall be subject to any penalty for failing to comply with a collection of information that is subject to this subchapter if–

 

(1) the collection of information does not display a valid control number assigned by the Director [of OMB] in accordance with this subchapter; or

 

(2) the agency fails to inform the person who is to respond to the collection of information that such person is not required to respond to the collection of information unless it displays a valid control number.

 

(b) The protection provided by this section may be raised in the form of a complete defense, bar, or otherwise at any time during the agency administrative process or judicial action applicable thereto.

 

That means that:

 

All use of the current Supplemental Worksheet is in violation of the Paperwork Reduction Act.

Anyone who is given, or who has been given, the Supplemental Worksheet (or any other form without an OMB control number) has an absolute right to decline to provide any answers. They could also report the officer who gives them to form to the State Department Office of the Inspector General for violation of the Paperwork Reduction Act.

Absolutely no penalty (including denial of a passport, denial of permission to travel, or interference with the right to travel) can legally be imposed on anyone for declining to provide any information requested on the Supplemental Worksheet.

 

 

All I can say is wow!! Given all this, if you refuse to submit the paperwork, I bet everything will work out well??? Your option to not fill out this "illegal" paperwork will accomplish what? You've been given some really good advice, be pleasant, submit what's asked for, and I'll bet the passport will show up in a short time.

Why was the license suspended? Could that come into play here??

[Hlitner]

I am going to be a contrarian and support the Department of State. They actually use pretty lenient rules that fall into two categories. You need some kind of proof of birth such as a Birth Certificate which seems pretty straight forward. The you need some current ID to prove you are the person on the Birth Certificate. If you do not have a drivers license they will allow a combination of things such as a Social Securtiy Card, Credit Card and even a library card. Sometimes they will want to see a friend who has known you at least 2 years. None of this seems that onerous.

 

A US Passport is a very valuable document (it can be worth over $10,000 on the black market in some countries) and asking somebody to prove where they were born and that are truly who they say they are seems pretty reasonable.

 

 

Hank

[cherylandtk]

I am going to be a contrarian and support the Department of State. They actually use pretty lenient rules that fall into two categories. You need some kind of proof of birth such as a Birth Certificate which seems pretty straight forward. The you need some current ID to prove you are the person on the Birth Certificate. If you do not have a drivers license they will allow a combination of things such as a Social Securtiy Card, Credit Card and even a library card. Sometimes they will want to see a friend who has known you at least 2 years. None of this seems that onerous.

 

A US Passport is a very valuable document (it can be worth over $10,000 on the black market in some countries) and asking somebody to prove where they were born and that are truly who they say they are seems pretty reasonable.Hank

...doesn't have a valid license and only a state issued ID. Just got a letter from the Dept of State saying that his ID is not good enough....

As OP originally posted, he has a State issued ID, which normally is quite sufficient as ID and is usually as widely accepted as a Driver's License. Why this particular State ID is being questioned is not clear, but it is highly unusual.

[PennyAgain]

The birth certificate requirement can be a major issue for those of us born in US military hospitals prior to 1950 as the St Louis military records office burned down with all of the originals.

 

It took me several steps to get a passport as the copy of my B C was worn and weary, but I make sure to keep my passport renewed and valid.

[Donray]

OP seems like you have a choice. submit what the government wants and try to get the passport or cancel the cruise.

Does it matter if in your opinion the form is illegal?

I had to send in the added stuff since my BC had No Name lastname. Still does.

[Donray]

Anyone who is given, or who has been given, the Supplemental Worksheet (or any other form without an OMB control number) has an absolute right to decline to provide any answers. They could also report the officer who gives them to form to the State Department Office of the Inspector General for violation of the Paperwork Reduction Act.

Absolutely no penalty (including denial of a passport, denial of permission to travel, or interference with the right to travel) can legally be imposed on anyone for declining to provide any information requested on the Supplemental Worksheet.

 

I would not fill out the form and just protest until after your cruse leaves without you.

 

Show them what for.

[Hlitner]

I guess that having spent 32 years inside the government makes me smile when I see some of the suggestions of how to do everything but what is being asked by the Dept of State. The bottom line is that if the OP wants to quickly get a Passport he/she should simply comply with the information requests and be as cooperative as possbile. The clerks at State are just human and they will do more to help cooperative applicants then somebody who starts citing various laws and regulations (such as the Paperwork Reduction Act of 1980). A collegue of mind, when faced with those kind of arguments (especially from attorneys) would simply reply, "sue me," I was a lot nicer and would simply ignore the request or put it in a pend file for a few months :)

 

The other alternative (already suggested) is to contact your Congressman or Senator and ask for help. This can actually be very effective if your rep makes an official inquiry.

 

Hank

[elektrawmn]

I guess that having spent 32 years inside the government makes me smile when I see some of the suggestions of how to do everything but what is being asked by the Dept of State. The bottom line is that if the OP wants to quickly get a Passport he/she should simply comply with the information requests and be as cooperative as possbile. The clerks at State are just human and they will do more to help cooperative applicants then somebody who starts citing various laws and regulations (such as the Paperwork Reduction Act of 1980). A collegue of mind, when faced with those kind of arguments (especially from attorneys) would simply reply, "sue me," I was a lot nicer and would simply ignore the request or put it in a pend file for a few months :)

 

The other alternative (already suggested) is to contact your Congressman or Senator and ask for help. This can actually be very effective if your rep makes an official inquiry.

 

Hank

 

Was waiting for someone to side with the FEDS! LOL J/K....

 

Nah, we had his mom come up with old records from school and stuff. We sent it off. Passport will hopefully be here in a couple of weeks.

 

Like I said.... even NCL said that because it's a closed loop cruise leaving from Tampa we don't need anything more than state issued id and birth certificate.

 

Thanks for all your suggestions and help!

[sail7seas]

Good luck.

Please let us know when he has his passport happily in his hands. :)

[pms4104]

 

 

... That means that:

 

All use of the current Supplemental Worksheet is in violation of the Paperwork Reduction Act.

Anyone who is given, or who has been given, the Supplemental Worksheet (or any other form without an OMB control number) has an absolute right to decline to provide any answers. They could also report the officer who gives them to form to the State Department Office of the Inspector General for violation of the Paperwork Reduction Act.

Absolutely no penalty (including denial of a passport, denial of permission to travel, or interference with the right to travel) can legally be imposed on anyone for declining to provide any information requested on the Supplemental Worksheet.

Well, it would seem that a person cannot be penalized/denied passport for failing to complete this form ... however, a passport applicant still would need to prove identity and citizenship to get a passport. If an individual is unable to prove one or both, I surmise a passport would be denied.

 

So, if the form you/family member is expected to complete is illegal ... just don't complete it and no one at State will need to spend time reviewing info and, by the way, no passport should be issued if one is not willing to verify identity and citizenship.

[elektrawmn]

Well we finally got his passport. The form WAS filled out....but not only did we send copies of his birth certificate and expired dl, we also sent w-2's, pay stubs, our marriage application and certificate, tax forms from when he collected unemployment, elementary school report cards, his birth announcement and to top it off, a Valentines Day card he gave his mother when he was in kindergarten that had his picture on it. :D (one can never be too certain, lol)

[sail7seas]

Happy he got his passport and appreciate you returned to tell us.

I always hope people will let us know how these situations resolve.

 

Have a GREAT cruise. :)