a question...again about the Jones Act

[misha1]

Good morning everyone. I was educated on the Jones Act and the PV thingy most recently as I tried to inquire about a back to back that started in Seward and ended in San Diego (via Vancouver). I have been told that I could not do this back to back by 2 Travel Agencies and a number of knowledgable Cruise Critic members as it violated the above mentioned laws, or whatever they are. However, on my roll call thread, it was suggested that if I disembark...completely, luggage and all, go thru Canadian customs and immigration, that this itinerary would be plausible. I ran it by my personal TA and she agreed. So now the question is (since I have never done a back to back before) isn't the disembarkation with luggage what would 'normally' happen? Do people stay on board with their luggage between cruises? And, if I did disembark with luggage, how long before I could have the porter take my bags back onto the ship...Oiy, maybe this is meant NOT to be. I hope my rambling question makes sense. I want to book my next cruise in 4 weeks while on board Summit but which cruise kinda depends on how this works out. Thanks in advance. Julie

[Cruise Junky]

Disney did this last year. I have no idea if they were ever caught and fined or if technically leaving the country is some kind of loophole.

[Karynanne]

If I'm reading this correctly, you want the first leg of your B2B to be Seward to Vancouver, and the 2nd leg of the B2B to be Vancouver to San Diego?

 

If so, then you MAY not be allowed to reboard your ship for the second leg (cruise). If Vancouver is considered a "distant" foreign port, then it's possible. If not...immigration may not allow it. It's a gamble...

[Cruise Junky]

We're definitely not a foreign DISTANT port so yes, this would be a huge risk and I'm not sure you'd get Celebrity onboard.

[cruisestitch]

"isn't the disembarkation with luggage what would 'normally' happen? Do people stay on board with their luggage between cruises? "

 

Disembarkation with luggage is NOT what normally happens. People stay on board or in some cases the passengers leave, go through C&I, and immediately reboard, but in any case their luggage stays on board,

 

Cruise Junky -- would be very interested in the exact details of the Disney itinerary you referenced. Do you know any specifics? The dates of the two cruises involved? Any of the logistics? TIA

[Karynanne]

We're definitely not a foreign DISTANT port so yes, this would be a huge risk and I'm not sure you'd get Celebrity onboard.

 

Even if Celebrity allowed it...Immigration would block the OP from embarking onboard again.

 

We inquired about a cruise from Honolulu to Ensenada (first leg) and then Ensenada to Seattle (2nd leg). We were given numerous mixed answers. We also were willing to disembark in Ensenada...take the bus back to San Diego...and then bus back again to Ensenada to embark on to Seattle. It proved to be a complicated issue, and we were at risk at not being allowed to re-board for the 2nd leg. Ultimately we canceled that voyage and booked something else that didn't have any complications involved.

[LeftcoastBC]

Normally on a b 2 B you stay on with your luggage etc. Maybe do the port of call as a regular stop.

 

You could technically be OK but I doubt that X would want to take the chance. It's big money for them if it technically doesn't meet the regs.

I see the comment on Disney. Seems to be they can do anything lol It's Magic.

[misha1]

I think I will just put this one to bed...no can do this back-to-back. period. Bummer

[scottbee]

Good morning everyone. I was educated on the Jones Act and the PV thingy most recently as I tried to inquire about a back to back that started in Seward and ended in San Diego (via Vancouver). I have been told that I could not do this back to back by 2 Travel Agencies and a number of knowledgable Cruise Critic members as it violated the above mentioned laws, or whatever they are. However, on my roll call thread, it was suggested that if I disembark...completely, luggage and all, go thru Canadian customs and immigration, that this itinerary would be plausible. I ran it by my personal TA and she agreed. So now the question is (since I have never done a back to back before) isn't the disembarkation with luggage what would 'normally' happen? Do people stay on board with their luggage between cruises? And, if I did disembark with luggage, how long before I could have the porter take my bags back onto the ship...Oiy, maybe this is meant NOT to be. I hope my rambling question makes sense. I want to book my next cruise in 4 weeks while on board Summit but which cruise kinda depends on how this works out. Thanks in advance. Julie

 

If you switch ships/lines you're OK. But Vancouver would just be an intermediate stop on a USA-USA one way trip; without a visit to a foreign distant port (which doesn't include Canada/Mexico or anything else north of Panama). This is why Panama canal cruises all stop in Columbia, as that's the foreign distant port.

[CRUZBUDS]

If you switch ships/lines you're OK. But Vancouver would just be an intermediate stop on a USA-USA one way trip; without a visit to a foreign distant port (which doesn't include Canada/Mexico or anything else north of Panama). This is why Panama canal cruises all stop in Columbia, as that's the foreign distant port.

 

or Aruba :)

[robtulipe]

If you switch ships/lines you're OK. But Vancouver would just be an intermediate stop on a USA-USA one way trip; without a visit to a foreign distant port (which doesn't include Canada/Mexico or anything else north of Panama). This is why Panama canal cruises all stop in Columbia, as that's the foreign distant port.

Many full transit, one way PC cruises stop in Aruba. Our's did this stop instead of going to Columbia. Also the other two ABC islands would meet the distant port requirement of the PVSA.

[BEAV]

We were involved in this scenario a few years ago when trying to do a B2B from San Francisco to Seattle (via Vancouver). It was explained to us that you would have stay over in Vancouver a full 24 hours (arrive one day, depart the next). Of course this is not possible to do with a B2B on the same ship with a same day turnaround in Vancouver.

 

As to the Disney situation, this past Spring there were a number of passengers booked on a B2B from Los Angeles to Vancouver, Vancouver to Seattle. There was a special arrangement made where the people had to fully disembark in Vancouver, go through Customs/Immigrations, and later reboard in different staterooms than they had traveled in for the first segment. People then began booking the Fall B2B (Seattle-Vancouver, Vancouver-LA) likewise, assuming the same "arrangement" would be accepted. Only this time they were not allowed to do the B2B, so what happened this Spring was obviously a one-time only special arrangement.

[fleckle]

Good morning everyone. I was educated on the Jones Act and the PV thingy most recently as I tried to inquire about a back to back that started in Seward and ended in San Diego (via Vancouver). I have been told that I could not do this back to back by 2 Travel Agencies and a number of knowledgable Cruise Critic members as it violated the above mentioned laws, or whatever they are. However, on my roll call thread, it was suggested that if I disembark...completely, luggage and all, go thru Canadian customs and immigration, that this itinerary would be plausible. I ran it by my personal TA and she agreed. So now the question is (since I have never done a back to back before) isn't the disembarkation with luggage what would 'normally' happen? Do people stay on board with their luggage between cruises? And, if I did disembark with luggage, how long before I could have the porter take my bags back onto the ship...Oiy, maybe this is meant NOT to be. I hope my rambling question makes sense. I want to book my next cruise in 4 weeks while on board Summit but which cruise kinda depends on how this works out. Thanks in advance. Julie

It is the PVSA that prohibits the ship from transporting passengers between 2 different US ports without a visit to a distant foreign port.

 

The way it was explained to us when we were in a similar situation, they do not care what you do off the ship or how many times you go back and forth.

If the same passenger shows up on the ship's manifest for both legs, that is illegal.

 

If you really want this itinerary, it will be legal if you initially board the ship in Vancouver, then ride it north to Seward and back down to San Diego.

 

Or else, as previously mentioned, just switch to a different ship for the Vancouver to San Diego segment.

 

 

[ghstudio]

Just a somewhat obvious note....if you are refused boarding on the second cruise, your trip insurance will not cover you, nor will celebrity refund your money. Celebrity will not sell you the ticket. If a TA wants to take the risk, make sure they put in writing that if you are refused boarding of the second cruise, the TA will refund your full payments.

[elena7seas]

Just a somewhat obvious note....if you are refused boarding on the second cruise, your trip insurance will not cover you, nor will celebrity refund your money. Celebrity will not sell you the ticket. If a TA wants to take the risk, make sure they put in writing that if you are refused boarding of the second cruise, the TA will refund your full payments.

 

Just to let you know, the cruise lines often will sell you the ticket initially, but at some later date will inform you that the B&B is not possible.

 

This has happened to two of my friends now, once with Celebrity and once with HAL.

[BEAV]

Just a somewhat obvious note....if you are refused boarding on the second cruise, your trip insurance will not cover you, nor will celebrity refund your money. Celebrity will not sell you the ticket. If a TA wants to take the risk, make sure they put in writing that if you are refused boarding of the second cruise, the TA will refund your full payments.

 

Excellent advise. On the other hand, if you were to book direct via Celebrity's website (or any on-line TA website for that matter), do you think these systems would even flag such bookings and stop the electronic ticketing process?

 

In our sitatution several years ago, HAL had already issued documents for both segments. It was only 10 days before departure that our TA was notified by HAL that we couldn't go. U.S. Customs and Border Protection had noticed our names on both manifests and that's where the buck stopped. HAL was either oblivious to the laws, or to the fact they had issued us tickets for both segments. We were fortunate they refunded our tickets without question. The cruise lines have obviously become more in tune with the situation, but I still wonder if they'd continue to issue documents for both segments in the event the passegner did their own "self booking" via the Internet.

[fleckle]

I think I will just put this one to bed...no can do this back-to-back. period. Bummer

....... but it can be done by switching ships.

You already stated previously that you would be willing to consider packing up and disembarking with your luggage at Vancouver, then returning to re-board.

 

If you would do that anyway, then switching to a different ship for the next segment could be even more desirable because it would provide new experiences with new menus and new entertainment.

 

 

[Ahhh]

The cruise lines have obviously become more in tune with the situation, but I still wonder if they'd continue to issue documents for both segments in the event the passegner did their own "self booking" via the Internet.

 

I booked one leg of a B2B a year ago March, and the second leg this past March, both online, thru Celebrity's website. I was expecting to hear from them at some point, as I had heard that this B2B was illegal. Today I was informed, by Celebrity, that I would have to change one of the sailings. These are in April/May of next year, so there is plenty of time to do so. I was offered cabin credit for the inconvenience and some compensation for any airfare I may have incured. I felt that was fair. So I guess the answer to your question is, they will issue the "documents" but (hopefully/probably) they will catch it, as they did in my case.

[alcpa1]

In lieu of the b2b why not investigate a repo.

We did a Summit repo from Vancouver through the Inside Passage and back to the lower 48 ending in San Diego.

This itinerary, or a version thereof, is offered every season. The reverse itinerary is offered for the first sailing in the Alaska sailing season.

This doesn't violate any ancient (and outdated) navigational laws.

[compman9]

Does the Jones act apply to non-Americans?

 

It all sounds a bit odd to me. I can see why it was introduced, and with all politics, for laws to change certain people feel like they have to admit to some sort of wrong, but separating cruise-lines from all other forms of marine trades, would certainly be a massive boost for the US economy. I would love to do a full east coast itinerary without having to get in a car.

[BillB48]

Does the Jones act apply to non-Americans?

 

 

Actually it applies only to non-US............ flagged ships that is;):). The PVSA is enforced against a vessel (and aircraft as well). In fact when the fine is enforced it is levied against the vessel and not the person. The cruise line collects it from you in the end.

[CABINET]

I'm afraid that I don't understand any of this stuff but would be very grateful if someone could tell me if we will get into trouble in the following scenario.

 

We plan to cruise to the US from Southampton to New York, then cruise from Boston to Canada, travel back to New York by other means (train or car) and finally return to the UK from there.

 

Does this fall foul of any legislation please?

[misha1]

In lieu of the b2b why not investigate a repo.

We did a Summit repo from Vancouver through the Inside Passage and back to the lower 48 ending in San Diego.

This itinerary, or a version thereof, is offered every season. The reverse itinerary is offered for the first sailing in the Alaska sailing season.

This doesn't violate any ancient (and outdated) navigational laws.

 

This would be an awesome cruise but I do not see such an itinerary. Am I just missing it?

[BillB48]

I'm afraid that I don't understand any of this stuff but would be very grateful if someone could tell me if we will get into trouble in the following scenario.

 

We plan to cruise to the US from Southampton to New York, then cruise from Boston to Canada, travel back to New York by other means (train or car) and finally return to the UK from there.

 

Does this fall foul of any legislation please?

 

Looks fine to me:). The problem arises basically when you use the same ship starting in a US port and ending in a different US port with out having stopped at a distant foreign port. The only distant ports in the Western hemisphere are in South America and the ABC Islands. Changing ships and arriving at one port (NY) and then later embarking from another port (Boston) keeps you well within the requirements. Later returning to NY by another means is perfect! Enjoy!!

[Allis154]

I'm afraid that I don't understand any of this stuff but would be very grateful if someone could tell me if we will get into trouble in the following scenario.

 

We plan to cruise to the US from Southampton to New York, then cruise from Boston to Canada, travel back to New York by other means (train or car) and finally return to the UK from there.

 

Does this fall foul of any legislation please?

 

this is fine...I think