Veendam failed latest cdc inspection

[RuthC]

I don't think I would worry about the NA, she is the flagship and should be in the best condition of any.

Although your point may be valid (I haven't sailed the Nieuw Amsterdam), it is not now, and has never been, the flagship of the HAL.

The Rotterdam and the Amsterdam are co-flagships. Amsterdam is a different ship.

[kazu]

I don't think I would worry about the NA, she is the flagship and should be in the best condition of any.

 

I don't think she is a flagship:confused: since when:confused: but she was in good shape when we were on - as is the newest ship in the fleet. She has some fans so I think any cruise on her should be ok.

[mariner]

Where's Copper. Maybe he can explain

[Salacia]

Where's Copper. Maybe he can explain

 

Just my personal opinion, of course, but on such a tender topic, asking a crew member or a contract crew member for an explanation might endanger their employment (as much as they might want to respond, the consequences of doing so outweigh the risk to benefit ratio).

 

Besides, it is up to CCL/HAL mangement to respond to passengers concerns, or at least it should be their responsibilty, no? But so far the flacks in Public Relations appear to be less than pro-active, and certainly non-responsive. But no worries, the press isn't challenging the official press releases. Experienced cruisers, however, do know which end is up, even if the press doesn't. -S.

[Salacia]

You are not being fair about the corrective action report magically appearing!

 

If you looked at the CDC WEB site carefully, you will note that the corrective action report was filed with the CDC on Aug 19, the same day of the inspection..If you check each violation, most of them were also corrected the same day!

 

IMO it only magically appeared because the CDC like many other Government. Agencies did not update their WEB site in a timely manner..

 

While I too am concerned & horrified that Veendam failed this inspection & will not make excuses for HAL, it behooves those of us on CC to check out things like this before posting..Too many posters don't even read the entire thread before posting & many did not even read the entire CDC report nor did they read the 21 pag corrective action report filed by HAL on Aug 19..

 

Betty

 

Please see post #292 on this thread.

[serendipity1499]

I do agree & did acknowledge in my above post that the corrective action report did not have a date, but it did not "mysteriously appear" as some posters seem to believe..I also stand corrected that the report probably was not done that day, however I take exception to those who claim that the report "mysteriously appeared" just yesterday...

According to the CDC "operational manual" the Corrective Action Report MUST be posted at exactly the same time the CDC report is issued to the public..[/B]This is on the CDC WEB site!

Quote: NOTE

 

The USPHS/CDC/Vessel Sanitaion Program performed the inspection or re-inspection that is provided as public information on the website. The program's Operational Manual specifies that whenever the inspection reports are disseminated to the public, a copy of the corrective action statements submitted by the vessel shall also be included.

 

VSP requires all ships to submit corrective action statements for deficiencies. This vessel submitted the following corrective action statement; however, VSP does not verify that the deficiencies have been corrected until after conducting the next vessel inspection or re-inspection.

Perhaps some of you did not know how to pull it up, which I stated in my above post was cumbersome, but IMO it was there..

Betty

[Salacia]

PARTIAL QUOTE

...According to the CDC "operational manual" the Corrective Action Report MUST be posted at exactly the same time the CDC report is issued to the public..This is on the CDC WEB site!

 

 

Perhaps some of you did not know how to pull it up, which I stated in my above post was cumbersome, but IMO it was there..

 

Betty

I have found nothing to indicated that "the Corrective Action Report must be posted at exactly the same time the CDC report is issued to the public"

 

Could you please tell me where to find that statement? Thanks, -S

[serendipity1499]

PARTIAL QUOTE

...According to the CDC "operational manual" the Corrective Action Report MUST be posted at exactly the same time the CDC report is issued to the public..This is on the CDC WEB site!

 

 

Perhaps some of you did not know how to pull it up, which I stated in my above post was cumbersome, but IMO it was there..

 

Betty

 

I have found nothing to indicated that "the Corrective Action Report must be posted at exactly the same time the CDC report is issued to the public"

 

Could you please tell me where to find that statement? Thanks, -S

 

It is on the same page as the RED ACKNOWLEDGE button is..See Step "F" in my post on how to pull up the correctve action report..Post No. 365..

I'll try to copy & paste the URL next post....

Betty

[serendipity1499]

Salacia...Here is the URL for the CDC note on the Corrective Action reports:

http://wwwn.cdc.gov/InspectionQueryTool/InspectionCorrectiveActionAcknowledgement.aspx?ColI=MTgwMDAxMjE%3d-xo0EkEPOm%2bU%3d

 

Betty

[Salacia]

Salacia...Here is the URL for the CDC note on the Corrective Action reports:

 

http://wwwn.cdc.gov/InspectionQueryTool/InspectionCorrectiveActionAcknowledgement.aspx?ColI=MTgwMDAxMjE%3d-xo0EkEPOm%2bU%3d

 

Betty

 

Thanks Serendipity, but could you please tell me where you found this information?

"According to the CDC "operational manual" the Corrective Action Report MUST be posted at exactly the same time the CDC report is issued to the public..This is on the CDC WEB site!"

 

The website you cited above does not apply to the reference in your posting. I only ask because it seems to me that it would be almost impossible for any corrective report to be posted simultaneously with an inspection report.

 

Please don't YELL at me, I'm only asking nicely:) Regards,-S

[serendipity1499]

Thanks Serendipity, but could you please tell me where you found this information?

"According to the CDC "operational manual" the Corrective Action Report MUST be posted at exactly the same time the CDC report is issued to the public..This is on the CDC WEB site!"

 

The website you cited above does not apply to the reference in your posting. I only ask because it seems to me that it would be almost impossible for any corrective report to be posted simultaneously with an inspection report.

 

I'm not yelling I alwqays post in type 3 comic sands & I'm not bolding it..If you follow my instructions beginning with Step A & go all the way uyp to Step F..I quote the 2 paragraphs in my previous post. no. CDC pa

 

Please don't YELL at me, I'm only asking nicely:) Regards,-S

 

Salacia, I'm not yelling I always post in type 3 Comic Sans..

The page I'm referring to is found on step "F" of my instructions on how to pull up the vessel sanitation report as well as the Corrective action report..There are only two paragraphs on that page & it states this"

Quote NOTE Quote: NOTE

The USPHS/CDC/Vessel Sanitation Program performed the inspection or re-inspection that is provided as public information on the website. The program's Operational Manual specifies that whenever the inspection reports are disseminated to the public, a copy of the corrective action statements submitted by the vessel shall also be included.

 

VSP requires all ships to submit corrective action statements for deficiencies. This vessel submitted the following corrective action statement; however, VSP does not verify that the deficiencies have been corrected until after conducting the next vessel inspection or re-inspection.

Unquote I underlined the part I'm referring to..

That is step "F" & is on the same page as the red ACKNOWLEDGE button..That is how I always pull up the Vessel sanitation reports..Try to follow follow step A thru Step F to get to this page before the Corrective action report comes up in adobe or PDF format..Or you might want to click on the Operational Manual to find it..I'll try to look there too..

Betty

 

[puli]

I just read the Corrections Report and do not understand how HAL can say some of the corrective actions will be done by October 2012 and others by October 2013. (these statements are toward the end of the Corrections Report)

 

Is it possible that much leeway can be given?

[serendipity1499]

QUOTE PAGE 134 OF THE OPERATIONS MANUAL

11.6.1 Procedures

corrective actions

11.6.1.1 A signed correctiveaction

statement (Annex 13.9) shall be submitted to the Chief, VSP, by the master, owner or operator which details each deficiency identified during the inspection,and the corrective action taken.

criticalcorrective actions

11.6.1.2 Criticalitem

deficiencies shall also include standard operating procedures and monitoring procedures implemented to prevent the recurrence of the critical deficiency.

clarification requests

11.6.1.3 The correctiveaction

statement may contain requests forclarification of items noted on the inspection report. The request for clarification shall be included in the cover letter from the vessel’s master, owner, or operator. Clarification of these

items will be provided back to the requestor, in writing, by the

Chief, VSP, or the EHO who conducted the inspection in question.

public distribution

11.6.1.4 The correctiveaction

statement shall be appended to the final inspection report for future reference and, if requested, madeavailable for public distribution.

same score 11.6.1.5 A correctiveaction

statement shall not affect the inspection

Salacia, I'm too tired to go looking any more but also think that pages 120 to 129 of the operations Manual give more info..

 

Goodnight..Betty.

[Salacia]

QUOTE PAGE 134 OF THE OPERATIONS MANUAL

 

11.6.1 Procedures

corrective actions

11.6.1.1 A signed correctiveaction

statement (Annex 13.9) shall be submitted to the Chief, VSP, by the master, owner or operator which details each deficiency identified during the inspection,and the corrective action taken.

criticalcorrective actions

11.6.1.2 Criticalitem

deficiencies shall also include standard operating procedures and monitoring procedures implemented to prevent the recurrence of the critical deficiency.

clarification requests

11.6.1.3 The correctiveaction

statement may contain requests forclarification of items noted on the inspection report. The request for clarification shall be included in the cover letter from the vessel’s master, owner, or operator. Clarification of these

items will be provided back to the requestor, in writing, by the

Chief, VSP, or the EHO who conducted the inspection in question.

public distribution

11.6.1.4 The correctiveaction

statement shall be appended to the final inspection report for future reference and, if requested, madeavailable for public distribution.

 

same score

11.6.1.5 A correctiveaction

statement shall not affect the inspection

 

Salacia, I'm too tired to go looking any more but also think that pages 120 to 129 of the operations Manual give more info..

 

Goodnight..Betty.

 

Thanks Serendipity. I understand your loyalty to Holland America, and I appreciate your posts.

 

I try not to make statements of fact without citing at least one source (which can be very boring to read). Too often I give my personal opinion, which is clearly stated as such and worth less then spit in wind.:o

 

Nevertheless, I don't believe it is accurate to state that "According to the CDC "operational manual" the Corrective Action Report MUST be posted at exactly the same time the CDC report is issued to the public..This is on the CDC WEB site!"

 

 

 

Best wishes, -S.

 

[Salacia]

I just read the Corrections Report and do not understand how HAL can say some of the corrective actions will be done by October 2012 and others by October 2013. (these statements are toward the end of the Corrections Report)

 

Is it possible that much leeway can be given?

 

 

I wondered if it was a typographical error?

 

Frankly, as a passenger on the Veendam Aug 19 voyage, I have difficulty accepting Veendam's 'corrective actions'. Dirty glasses, chipped and cracked cups and dishes, and that's just for starters...

[cruisemom42]

[/i]

11.6.1.4 The correctiveaction

statement shall be appended to the final inspection report for future reference and, if requested, madeavailable for public distribution.

same score 11.6.1.5 A correctiveaction

statement shall not affect the inspection

Salacia, I'm too tired to go looking any more but also think that pages 120 to 129 of the operations Manual give more info..

 

Goodnight..Betty.

 

I don't mean to be picky, but nowhere does it say that the corrective report must be posted at exactly the same time as the deficiency report. The language says that the corrective report must be appended to the deficiency report for future reference.

 

"Appended" means that it can be added at any time, but once added the two records will be associated. However, there is no statement indicating it has to be at the same time. The other statement merely says that "if requested" the corrective action must be made available publicly. Presumably that means at the request of HAL, but the wording is not very clear.

 

Trust me, I know how to navigate the CDC website and I deal with records such as inspection reports daily. I am in the health field and have done work for CDC (for their website) in the past.

 

The fact remains that as of August 20, a month after the inspection, no report was published on the website. I can't guarantee exactly when it WAS posted or when it was submitted, although I am going to go look at the site and see if there is some way to figure out the posting date.

[beirne]

Yes, I know and know the men involved. All were high ranking.

 

Are you willing to name names? I ask because these were colleagues of mine, and I have no other means of finding out...

[momatibm]

According to the document properties it was created in MS Word, on 9/10/2012 and posted on 9/11/2012.

[Jade13]

My feeling is that if it is permitted to happen on the Veendam, it is only a matter of time before the same thing happens on the other ships in the fleet.

Terri

 

Feel the same way.

[Randyk47]

My feeling is that if it is permitted to happen on the Veendam, it is only a matter of time before the same thing happens on the other ships in the fleet.

Terri

 

You'd hope not but I understand the sentiment. My personal and professional experience has been that these kind of incidents actually serve as a "wake-up call" to the rest and the word gets out quickly not to make the same mistake. If it's true that folks were fired or somehow penalized for this then it really brings the message home and sends the message that it won't be tolerated.

[cruisemom42]

According to the document properties it was created in MS Word, on 9/10/2012 and posted on 9/11/2012.

 

I forgot to go and check, but if that is the case, I apologize. I certainly did not see it through the usual path.

 

Again, my apologies. :o

[kazu]

You'd hope not but I understand the sentiment. My personal and professional experience has been that these kind of incidents actually serve as a "wake-up call" to the rest and the word gets out quickly not to make the same mistake. If it's true that folks were fired or somehow penalized for this then it really brings the message home and sends the message that it won't be tolerated.

 

I agree Randy - we have to remember that because things were let go on one ship doesn't mean that corporate approved. Nor is it anything other ships would want to aspire to.

 

The Veendam has had issues for some time - I don't think we need to paint the rest of the fleet with the same brush;)

[ccruisequeen]

Wish they would dry dock all the ships to upgrade the doorjams for the disabled. They are so high you couldn't get a scooter over them.

[Gail & Marty sailing away]

You'd hope not but I understand the sentiment. My personal and professional experience has been that these kind of incidents actually serve as a "wake-up call" to the rest and the word gets out quickly not to make the same mistake. If it's true that folks were fired or somehow penalized for this then it really brings the message home and sends the message that it won't be tolerated.

Very well put...

[mallbucks]

 

Yesterday, DH and I were at Canada Place in Vancouver and checking out the Volendam - my all-time favourite ship - and he noted how shabby she is looking. Hoping she gets spruced up soon but maybe someone who has recently been on her can attest that all is well onboard.

Recently off the Volendam on 7 day Inside Passage. Outside Cabin 3026 (on Promenade deck) . No heat for entire week even with thermostat up to highest level. They tried to fix it several times with no success. Other than that, the cruise was great. Just used all the blankets in my cabin! Volendam does show its age in some areas, but I'd sail on her again.