Veendam failed latest cdc inspection

[Salacia]

You are not being fair about the corrective action report magically appearing!

 

If you looked at the CDC WEB site carefully, you will note that the corrective action report was filed with the CDC on Aug 19, the same day of the inspection..If you check each violation, most of them were also corrected the same day!

 

IMO it only magically appeared because the CDC like many other Government. Agencies did not update their WEB site in a timely manner..

 

While I too am concerned & horrified that Veendam failed this inspection & will not make excuses for HAL, it behooves those of us on CC to check out things like this before posting..Too many posters don't even read the entire thread before posting & many did not even read the entire CDC report nor did they read the 21 pag corrective action report filed by HAL on Aug 19..[/SIZE]

 

Betty

 

Serendipity, No, I don't think the response was filed the same day. I check the CDC VP site frequently, and that report was only recently filed. I can not find a date on the action report, can you point me to it?

Just to mention that the VSP inspection conducted on Aug 19 was also not filed on the same day.

 

And no, not all corrective measures were taken on the same day. Only those infractions which required immediate action were taken on the day of inspection. Respectfully, may I suggest you take another look at the corrective report. Note the actions such as parts on order, continuing repairs, and simple things like making machines that failed inspection inoperable.

 

If you wish, we can go over the corrective action report point by point.

 

Personally, I'm waiting for the next VSP inspection report.

 

Regards,

Salacia

 

Edited to add: As previoulsy mentioned, I boarded the Veendam on August 19, so I have first-hand knowledge of the conditons on board after the failed inspection score.. Obviously, I'm not a health inspector. But from my viewpoint as a passenger, Veendam failed.

[Salacia]

I was planning on booking Veendam's Nov 19th South American cruise. I had spent hours on this board reading about the a/c problems and plumbing problems. A hearty thank you to all who posted honestly to spare those who came after you.

 

I decided I'd take a gamble since I loved the itinerary so much- more days spent cruising around the glaciers, etc. I planned on requesting a stateroom toward the bow as it was mentioned the a/c problems seemed to be confined to the cabins at the rear of the ship. I had sailed Celebrity Infinity and during the cruise I walked down the corridor of a deck with fans blowing and a foul smell so I knew plumbing problems could happen on any ship if it could happen on the top-notch Infinity ship. Reading about this failed inspection was the final straw. I came here to take a final look before booking the HAL cruise- to see if any new information had popped up. Boy, did it ever!!! Just wish I had visited again before booking the air.

 

I'm unhappy that I'll be losing $400 to change two airline tickets to later dates- now we'll be trying out the Seabourn Sojourn instead. It's a lot more than we wanted to spend but goes where we want and at the approx. dates we want. I'll never book a cruise on Holland America. What a shame because I've been wanting to try out HAL for years. My grandparents loved it.

 

Thank you Cruise Critic and Cruise Critic members for keeping others informed!

 

Timetraveller, please consider what has been previously posted: one ships' failure should not dam an entire cruise line. I've only experienced one ship on the Holland American Line. Despite my unhappiness with my latest Veendam voyage, I would not write off the entire fleet.

 

Regards,

Salacia

 

Disclosure:

CCL stockholder

Cunard World Club, Platinum

Holland America Mariner's Society, 2 Star

Princess past passenger

[Copper10-8]

........................Human waste dripping onto dishes isn't something we can take in stride...

 

#1 Assumes facts not in evidence!:cool:

#2 There are no sewer lines running anywhere in the main galley, let alone down the overhead:cool:

[Salacia]

#1 Assumes facts not in evidence!:cool:

 

#2 There are no sewer lines running anywhere in the main galley, let alone down the overhead:cool:

 

Yes, I agree that there was no proof that the brown liquid was from a sewer line.

 

Which begs the question: what was the dripping brown liquid?

 

Accepting that the brown liquid wasn't dripping from a sewer line, how many types of lines run above the galley? And which of those lines drips brown liquid?

 

I've also wondered where the water came from that affected some passenger's cabins, and accumulated on some balconies, but that would not be a matter for the VSP report since only public areas on the ship are subject to inspection.

[timetraveler9]

]Originally Posted by mamaofami

Violation: Several managers were observed in the area but they did not shut down the outboard flight-type conveyor warewash machine for repair before the inspector arrived. Every 1 to 5 seconds, the magnetic sensor on the clean end of the in-use outboard flight-type conveyor warewash machine was stopping the machine from running. There was a leak in a water line inside the deckhead directly above the machine and water was dripping into the machine and contaminating the clean dishes after they were sanitized. There was also brown liquid leaking from the deckhead onto the left corner of the clean landing of the machine. Workers were observed taking the contaminated dishes and putting them into clean storage racks. Recommendation: Because of the risks for foodborne illness inherent to the food operation, ensure the supervisor or person in charge of food operations on the vessel demonstrates to VSP - during inspections and on request - knowledge of foodborne disease prevention, application of the Hazard Analysis Critical Point principles, and the food-safety guidelines in this [/color]manual. Ensure that the person in charge demonstrates this knowledge: (1) By compliance with these guidelines."[/color][/color]

 

 

Oops, Salacia and Copper. Thanks for pointing this out. When I read deckhead I was thinking of the maritime term for toilet:"head" so I made an erroneous assumption that they were referring to the head on the deck above leaking waste onto the dishes. When I saw "head" and "brown liquid" I jumped to conclusions. Sorry about that.

[timetraveler9]

Forget the money and enjoy the cruise. It's already spent and remember you will have very few if any expenses on board other than excursions. And I can help you pay for those!

 

You may not know about the 'Referral Coupon' program that Seabourn has. A past SB cruiser can give a new SB cruiser a coupon to be turned in to SB for OBC- ours was for $400. The first sticky thread on the SB Cruise Critic board is for that purpose. You post the date of your cruise on that thread and ask for someone who has a coupon that would cover the date of your cruise; that person will contact you on the board and will arrange to get your mailing address from you and will mail you the coupon which will also contain his name. You give the coupon to your TA to mail to SB. You and the coupon giver will each get $400 OBC from SB for his and your cruise. (If it sounds complicated it isn't, very easy to do and a longtime SB perk for new cruisers.) Just check out the first sticky thread on the SB CC board.

 

Thanks, Peaches from Georgia! That would be phenomenal!! Very much appreciated!

[Salacia]

PARTIAL QUOTE

]. When I saw "head" and "brown liquid" I jumped to conclusions. Sorry about that.

 

No worries friend... first thing I though of was the deluxe chocolate extravganza which I missed twice by choice (struggle). Cheers -S.

[peaches from georgia]

Thanks, Peaches from Georgia! That would be phenomenal!! Very much appreciated!

LOL. I just checked the SB board. Told you it was easy!

[Jade13]

I did write a review of our experience. You can read my review here.

 

Thank you!

[broberts]

Yes, I agree that there was no proof that the brown liquid was from a sewer line.

 

Which begs the question: what was the dripping brown liquid?

 

Accepting that the brown liquid wasn't dripping from a sewer line, how many types of lines run above the galley? And which of those lines drips brown liquid?

 

I've also wondered where the water came from that affected some passenger's cabins, and accumulated on some balconies, but that would not be a matter for the VSP report since only public areas on the ship are subject to inspection.

 

One should not assume that drips must come from leaking lines.

 

"Brown liquid" is a fairly generic description. It could be anything from condensate dripping off a bit of rust, food splash that may or may not have sat a while, or something leaking from a line. A very slow leak from a clean water line might eventually drip brown if it caused or encountered rust, for example.

 

I expect that had the inspectors determined that the leak was from something immediately dangerous they would not have released the ship until they were sure the problem would not affect crew or passengers.

[TiogaCruiser]

Certainly no excuse for the whole substandard inspection results but the discussion about the brown liquid vividly reminds me of such a leak from my industrial food mixer. Despite cleaning it well each time before putting it away there was a "drip" of "chocolate" coming from the head the next time I used it.

 

Turns out the gears were not seated to tolerance and that was food grade machine grease oozing out. That certainly was not healthy for my machine.

[hlwcan]

I booked my first cruise (October 13 - Montreal to Boston) and unfortunately I choose the Veendam to sail on (perhaps it will be my last). I have sent an email to Holland America asking about inspection and inquiring about their cancellation policy in light of the failed CDC inspection. I suspect I already know the answer but worth exploring our options. I read the corrective action report and hope that the ship will be okay to sail on by mid-October. I'm not too worried about AC issues (October in Canada is usually not AC worthy ;)) but I guess the plumbing problems could be nasty - were they widespread? Any other advice would be greatly appreciated...

[Salacia]

One should not assume that drips must come from leaking lines.

 

"Brown liquid" is a fairly generic description. It could be anything from condensate dripping off a bit of rust, food splash that may or may not have sat a while, or something leaking from a line. A very slow leak from a clean water line might eventually drip brown if it caused or encountered rust, for example.

 

I expect that had the inspectors determined that the leak was from something immediately dangerous they would not have released the ship until they were sure the problem would not affect crew or passengers.

 

 

The VSP inspection report, Item 13, states that "...there was a leak in the water line in the deckhead ...there was also brown liquid dripping from the deckhead..."

quoted from http://wwwn.cdc.gov/InspectionQueryTool/InspectionDetailReport.aspx?ColI=MTgwMDAxMjE%3d-xo0EkEPOm%2bU%3d

The corrective action report:

"...The plumbing leak occurred during the inspection.

Facilities were trying to identify the source of the leak. The water leak has been repaired..." copied from http://wwwn.cdc.gov/InspectionQueryTool/InspectionCorrectiveActionReport.aspx

 

(If interested, here's the full quote from the inspection report:

Item No.: 13 Site: Galley-Warewashing Violation: Several managers were observed in the area but they did not shut down the outboard flight-type conveyor warewash machine for repair before the inspector arrived. Every 1 to 5 seconds, the magnetic sensor on the clean end of the in-use outboard flight-type conveyor warewash machine was stopping the machine from running. There was a leak in a water line inside the deckhead directly above the machine and water was dripping into the machine and contaminating the clean dishes after they were sanitized. There was also brown liquid leaking from the deckhead onto the left corner of the clean landing of the machine. Workers were observed taking the contaminated dishes and putting them into clean storage racks. Recommendation: Because of the risks for foodborne illness inherent to the food operation, ensure the supervisor or person in charge of food operations on the vessel demonstrates to VSP - during inspections and on request - knowledge of foodborne disease prevention, application of the Hazard Analysis Critical Point principles, and the food-safety guidelines in this manual. Ensure that the person in charge demonstrates this knowledge: (1) By compliance with these guidelines.

Item No.: 13 Site: Galley-Warewashing Violation: Several managers were observed in the area but they did not shut down the outboard flight-type conveyor warewash machine for repair before the inspector arrived. Every 1 to 5 seconds, the magnetic sensor on the clean end of the in-use outboard flight-type conveyor warewash machine was stopping the machine from running. There was a leak in a water line inside the deckhead directly above the machine and water was dripping into the machine and contaminating the clean dishes after they were sanitized. There was also brown liquid leaking from the deckhead onto the left corner of the clean landing of the machine. Workers were observed taking the contaminated dishes and putting them into clean storage racks. Recommendation: Because of the risks for foodborne illness inherent to the food operation, ensure the supervisor or person in charge of food operations on the vessel demonstrates to VSP - during inspections and on request - knowledge of foodborne disease prevention, application of the Hazard Analysis Critical Point principles, and the food-safety guidelines in this manual. Ensure that the person in charge demonstrates this knowledge: (1) By compliance with these guidelines.

[goodearth]

You are not being fair about the corrective action report magically appearing!

 

If you looked at the CDC WEB site carefully, you will note that the corrective action report was filed with the CDC on Aug 19, the same day of the inspection..If you check each violation, most of them were also corrected the same day!

 

IMO it only magically appeared because the CDC like many other Government. Agencies did not update their WEB site in a timely manner..

 

While I too am concerned & horrified that Veendam failed this inspection & will not make excuses for HAL, it behooves those of us on CC to check out things like this before posting..Too many posters don't even read the entire thread before posting & many did not even read the entire CDC report nor did they read the 21 pag corrective action report filed by HAL on Aug 19..

 

Betty

 

Neither the inspection report, nor the correction plan was filed the same day as the actual inspection. And yes, I did read every page of those documents...........please share where you see that the corrective action report from HAL was dated Aug. 19???? It goes beyond reading, to understanding what you are reading. Enlighten me since I did not see what you claim exists.

[serendipity1499]

Neither the inspection report, nor the correction plan was filed the same day as the actual inspection. And yes, I did read every page of those documents...........please share where you see that the corrective action report from HAL was dated Aug. 19???? It goes beyond reading, to understanding what you are reading. Enlighten me since I did not see what you claim exists.

 

 

The Corrective Action report of which is 21 pages can be viewed right on the CDC WEB site & was always there when CDC posted the results..To read it follow instructions below: BTW Realize you are correct about the date of the filing, however the corrective action report was there when the CDC put this on their WEB site..Probably ,many would not have known how to pull it up though as it was complicated for me the first time I did it..

 

 

A) Click on

http://wwwn.cdc.gov/InspectionQueryTool/InspectionSearch.aspx

B) Click on the Cruise Ship Box for: "Veendam"

C) Scroll down pg & be sure most recent date & all scores are indicated.

D) Scroll down page & click on: "Search"

E) When "veendam" appears click on:

"Corrective Report"

F) Scroll down the page & click on the

RED "Acknowledge"

The 21 pg. HAL Corrective report will appear in a PDF format..

Betty

[sppunk]

serendipity1499,

 

The corrective report date reads 8/19/12 because that is the date of the original report it is correcting. That is not the date it was inspected for corrections.

 

fwiw

[Salacia]

serendipity1499,

 

The corrective report date reads 8/19/12 because that is the date of the original report it is correcting. That is not the date it was inspected for corrections.

 

fwiw

 

Right.

 

It's also worth nothing that "VSP requires all ships to submit corrective action statements for deficiencies. This vessel submitted the following corrective action statement; however, VSP does not verify that the deficiencies have been corrected until after conducting the next vessel inspection or re-inspection" copied from http://wwwn.cdc.gov/InspectionQueryTool/InspectionCorrectiveActionAcknowledgement.aspx?ColI=MTgwMDAxMjE%3d-xo0EkEPOm%2bU%3d

 

Currently, there is no VSP re-inspection report filed on-line, but I'm sure we'll learn the results soon after the re-inspection occurs. -S.

[goodearth]

Agreed........the date of 8/19/2012 is the Inspection Date and is noted as such. There is no date on the Corrective Action Plan submitted by Hal. :(

[Willem Ruys]

Do you think this was warranted and fair?

 

 

I do NOT think it far. I think it's scapegoating.

[Willem Ruys]

I am so curious, your CC name is so interesting. Did you ever sail or work on the Achille Lauro?

Terri

 

 

Nope, nor in her when she was the WILLEM RUYS. Chose it because it's a good Dutch ship name...

 

but I DID sail once in the ANGELINA LAURO...she had a LOT of cockroaches aboard. I nicknamed her ANGELINA COCKROACH

[cruisemom42]

The Corrective Action report of which is 21 pages can be viewed right on the CDC WEB site & was always there when CDC posted the results..To read it follow instructions below: BTW Realize you are correct about the date of the filing, however the corrective action report was there when the CDC put this on their WEB site..Probably ,many would not have known how to pull it up though as it was complicated for me the first time I did it..

 

 

A) Click on

http://wwwn.cdc.gov/InspectionQueryTool/InspectionSearch.aspx

B) Click on the Cruise Ship Box for: "Veendam"

C) Scroll down pg & be sure most recent date & all scores are indicated.

D) Scroll down page & click on: "Search"

E) When "veendam" appears click on:

"Corrective Report"

F) Scroll down the page & click on the

RED "Acknowledge"

The 21 pg. HAL Corrective report will appear in a PDF format..

Betty

 

I can assure you the report was most certainly not there when I went and looked for it on the day I first read about the failing score.

[peaches from georgia]

I do NOT think it far. I think it's scapegoating.

Your opinions are always interesting to the board and you speak from experience. I'm sure there is enough blame to go around for what has happened to the Veendam, but without naming names, since you said relieving senior officers of their duties is scapegoating, where do you put the major portion of responsibility for the condition and the failed inspection of the Veendam?

[kazu]

I can assure you the report was most certainly not there when I went and looked for it on the day I first read about the failing score.

 

It wasn't there when I looked either - it was the first thing I looked for

[Tangocherie]

Though the Nieuw Amsterdam is not directly concerned by the Veendam's failure of the Aug 19 CDC inspection, I must admit that I hesitated before making my final payment with my travel agent for this cruise.

 

It's my first on HAL and this VERY negative event has me somewhat nervous about the quality of the product. My restrictive posture is also compounded by the line's smoking policy.

 

I decided to go ahead with my final payment because the itinerary is wonderfull. I'm still wary but I'm hoping for the best. Best regards,

 

Luc

[vicocala]

I don't think I would worry about the NA, she is the flagship and should be in the best condition of any.